Modifié par ananna21, 24 août 2012 - 01:20 .
KDD-0063 wrote...
3) Realistic romance: I'd say BG2's lovetalk is still the best system. DA2 and ME2's romance system really can only work with some types of romances. We want to see longer romance with character developments. Don't push homosexuality. Even if someone does want to roleplay a gay character, NPCs aren't supposed to know that right off the bat, much less act as if PC is gay.
Emzamination wrote...
Skelter192 wrote...
Chris Avellone write the story.
No, after his statement about doing away with romance completely in games, I don't want that man touching any series I play.I had always wondered why the romance in Kotor 2 was so god awful, seems I have my answer.
LinksOcarina wrote...
Emzamination wrote...
Skelter192 wrote...
Chris Avellone write the story.
No, after his statement about doing away with romance completely in games, I don't want that man touching any series I play.I had always wondered why the romance in Kotor 2 was so god awful, seems I have my answer.
Wait...Kotor 2 had a romance in it?
I honestly didn't even notice.
Modifié par Emzamination, 24 août 2012 - 02:03 .
Modifié par Terror_K, 24 août 2012 - 02:14 .
Emzamination wrote...
LinksOcarina wrote...
Emzamination wrote...
Skelter192 wrote...
Chris Avellone write the story.
No, after his statement about doing away with romance completely in games, I don't want that man touching any series I play.I had always wondered why the romance in Kotor 2 was so god awful, seems I have my answer.
Wait...Kotor 2 had a romance in it?
I honestly didn't even notice.
Exactly my point but yeah the male jedi could enter a 'romance' with the blind Miraluka and the female jedi could enter a 'romance' with the Disciple.The little love scene moment is when they get busy through the force after kreia's betrayal. That man is...ugh.
Terror_K wrote...
Also, if BioWare said DA2 was non-canon and essentially didn't happen, that would be a big plus.
Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 24 août 2012 - 06:46 .
Modifié par Rabid Rooster, 24 août 2012 - 07:37 .
Modifié par TamiBx, 24 août 2012 - 07:46 .
jackofalltrades456 wrote...
Terror_K wrote...
Also, if BioWare said DA2 was non-canon and essentially didn't happen, that would be a big plus.
The plotline is going to revolve around the Mages vs Templar war. Though I wouldn't mind if they retconned some things from Dragon Age 2 ( Like what happened with Leliana and Anders) to better fit with the players choices if imports are going to be a feature.
Terror_K wrote...
Pfft! What's the point in even doing the imports any more. Mass Effect 3 alone proved that it just leads to disappointment where you choices never really mattered and the same things happen anyway, with half-assed cheap substitutions, trivialisation of issues that should be important, sweeping things under the rug and even some things being retconned entirely.
BioWare can't do choices and consequences properly it seems, whether because they don't really want to, or whether they get rushed to finish and to a lazy job, I don't know. I remember Patrick Weekes said that they didn't want to exclude players from content from a decision three games ago being one factor, and with that mindset it's no wonder nothing had any real impact. I know Dragon Age is a different beast, but DA2 was hardly a very different game, and also suffered from issues that the Mass Effect series did.
Modifié par ArenCordial, 24 août 2012 - 02:24 .
Terror_K wrote...
jackofalltrades456 wrote...
Terror_K wrote...
Also, if BioWare said DA2 was non-canon and essentially didn't happen, that would be a big plus.
The plotline is going to revolve around the Mages vs Templar war. Though I wouldn't mind if they retconned some things from Dragon Age 2 ( Like what happened with Leliana and Anders) to better fit with the players choices if imports are going to be a feature.
Pfft! What's the point in even doing the imports any more. Mass Effect 3 alone proved that it just leads to disappointment where you choices never really mattered and the same things happen anyway, with half-assed cheap substitutions, trivialisation of issues that should be important, sweeping things under the rug and even some things being retconned entirely.
BioWare can't do choices and consequences properly it seems, whether because they don't really want to, or whether they get rushed to finish and to a lazy job, I don't know. I remember Patrick Weekes said that they didn't want to exclude players from content from a decision three games ago being one factor, and with that mindset it's no wonder nothing had any real impact. I know Dragon Age is a different beast, but DA2 was hardly a very different game, and also suffered from issues that the Mass Effect series did.
Modifié par LinksOcarina, 24 août 2012 - 02:38 .
Emzamination wrote...
We must play as humans because it makes imports much less of a headache on Biowares part and as I've mentioned before, the diversity of races in origins has put a dark cloud over the warden getting some on screen closure in Da3.It is a new order so I guess that could be classified under group but I wouldn't call is a monastic order just yet, from what we know, it sounds more political than religious.If your asking if religion will play a part in Da3, I'd say that's a very strong possibility considering David said no one is allowed to be atheist and the old gods return.Every group has followers, that's what makes it a group to begin with.
The inquisition is not about humans, it's about saving the world from itself, while playing as a human.Bioware listens to feedback, not whining, whining just grates on the nerves till you have to put the earplugs in.The term Inquisition is by no means an exclusive copyright for any group, in short a 'inquisition' commonly refers to a 'harsh and unfair investigation'.
Why do you say orlais is 95% human? We haven't explored it yet and it's well known elves and dwarfs live there as well.Again, David said no Atheist in dragon age so If you don't believe in the maker than you default to the old gods, no getting around that.
Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 26 août 2012 - 10:28 .
Huntress wrote...
The Hero doens't have to be just human, the hero doens't have to be part of an organization, many players didn't feel "OK" forced to be Warden's but i suppose am the only one with good danm memory here.
Thedas is NOT about Humans. Bioware wonder why they lose people or not make sales over 9 millions copy.. look at you're products, look at what the players ask for "different races", check what you give them "Human organization+ hero", check the game genr: fantasy... umm we are forced to play Humans in a fantasy world how.. artistic.
I wonder why they don't just stick to 1 human hero and say everything you want to say about the Humans..
What do you think their answers will be?
Bioware: DA is not about 1 person in particular..
me: but is about a particular race?... meh.
If you want to know about Orlais check the web of why is a HUMAN city.
I don't give a rat about any religion, now my DA characters are religious or they belive in their deities so I have no clue what the hell you are talking about.
If I play as a human they all belive in the Maker, if they are elves they belive in their old gold and I think if I ever make a dwarf is going to pray to the stone.. so I have no clue of what you are talking about regarding religion in DA.
I know that Inquisition is not about humans.. is about a Human group/organization, I dought dwarves will come up with a name like that, or elves..
Emzamination wrote...
Why would dwarves or elves be hunters of heresy? Makes no sense
Celtic Latino wrote...
ArenCordial wrote...
Background: This topic (while I'm has been touched on before) comes from a conversation a group of friends and I had in regards to our recent disappointment with DA2 & ME3. My friends and I were pretty much BioWare drones who had preordered Collector's Editions waiting for us come release day for every BioWare title. Things have changed for us do to our disappointment and often annoyance towards the last two singleplay titles to the point where we are basically done with BioWare. That said we discussed the other day what could BioWare do specifically to bring us back as consumers. I thought I'd put these thoughts out there and see if others had specific ideas they could add. And I mean specifics, not "Make DA3 more like Origins."
- Meaningful Choice and Consequence -
If you're going to present me with a decision make that meaningful. More than anything this has been the problem with DA2 and ME3. We were given the illusion of choice without real consquence. In DA2 you could decided b/w templars and mages. Your choice didn't matter you always ended up fighting the same people whether it was in the side quests or far worse in the main quest at the end of the game. ME3 had a similar problem. You were presented with R/G/B but there was not real change in the presentation of the those choices which is why many claimed ME3 had 1 ending (EC did a better job differentiating this though). Also don't give me an option to kill Leliana/Zevran/Wynne/Anders/etc only to have them show up again. Enforcing your own cannon/preferences over the player's decisions is bad writing and is inexcusable.
-Tactical Combat over Button = Awesome! -
Over the top combat in DA2 was one of the most repulsive things about it. A shield bash shouldn't send 3 guys flying nor should a sword make a person explode when they die. DAO's combat was awesome because it was gritty. I was always thrilled to get a finishing move because it was 1000x more visceral than anything DA2 had.
The removal of tactics also bought the game down, remember DA is the heir to Baldur's Gate not Dynasty Warriors. Bring back the tactical view option and tactics of Origins. Also Cross class Combo's was a neat idea but failed. It doesnt make sense for a Warrior to give up his positioning/turn his back to the guys he's fighting to hit the enemy so the Rogue/Mage can deal some real damage and vica versa.
Potential Idea: Introduce a combo system of Combat Advantage so a class can combo off itself in addtion to other classes.
Ex: Single class Combo: Warrior shield bashes stunning an enemy. He gets advantage against that enemy an uses his Overwhelming Assault and each hit does a good amount of extra damage.
Ex: Any class Combo: Mage freezes a foe. Warrior can shield bash to deal crap load of extra dmg (shatter combo in DAO), Mage can cast lightning spell for extra damage, Rogue can also use a power to deal extra dmg.
-Companions -
Overall the companions were a let down from Origins. Varric and Aveline were about the only ones I liked. Several really got on my nerves (Fenris/Anders with the none stop hate of Mages/Templars), and felt more like lens to view the plot and establish sides than characters. No one in DA2 could hold a candle to Morrigan, Alister, Leliana, or Shale. And for god sakes bring back the camp or something similar with some appropriately awesome music. Have it feel like your all in this together.
-Art -
DA2's changes were jarring. The Qunari were an impressive change, but the Elves and Darkspawn made me feel less like I was in a fantasy world and more like I was in a cartoony game. The art changes in those 2 cases broke immersion. Thats fine if you guys are proud of the work of your artists with the changes of DA2, but does that mean you aren't proud of the work they did in Origins? If you aren't you should be. Darkspawn were slimy, fierce, and intimidating. You could see the taint just by looking at them. In DA2 they felt like a skeletor joke, not a plague that could destroy they world. They weren't intimidating at all. Elves weren't as bad, but they were maybe too fairy like. I was always distracted by their weird lines than being absorbed in what they were saying, not the desired effect I'm sure.
Don't be afraid to go back to how you started this. DA2's changes could simply be attributed to Varric taking some liberties. I understand you wanted to create a distincting look for the brand with DA2. I'd argue you did that in DAO and the look was positive and supportive for the setting's tone unlike the changes made in the sequel.
- Don't Rely on Auto-Dialogue/Make Dialogue Wheel More Clear -
I'm the player, you want the player character to say something I get to choose what to say. Simple as that. The more you take me out of the game, the less I'm invested into your game.
The dialogue wheel is also annoying because one instance of "wait I wasn't trying to say that!" is one to many. There should be a way if you're highlighting a choice, you should be able to have the first couple lines come up. B/W tone icons and that no one should be complaining.
-Make Me Love My Player Character-
At the end of DA2 I really didn't care much about Hawke. I'd have easily sacrificed the entirety of DA2 for a 3-4 hr DLC adventure in DAO with my Warden. Why? Because I loved my Warden, Hawke felt like your character not mine. So for DA3 make me love my protaganist. How do you do that? Well I have given you some ideas like stop the Auto-Dialogue and allowing me to make meaningful choices with consequences. The basic idea is the more decisions you make for me or make meaningless, the more that the becomes PC your character and not mine then the less we care about the character.
-Establish the Villain Early-
Saverok, Irenicus, Malak, Saren, and Loghain were all good Villians. We knew of them early and grew to hate them as adversaries while respecting their power and charisma then through out the game we'd learn a little more about them and their motivations. The old saying is the hero is only as good as the villian.
In DA2 we never meet Meredith and Orsino until the end of Act 2. Most of the game is behind us. When we finally get to know them we find out they were annoying bats**t crazy people that I wanted to kill more for their incompetence as leaders/compromisers than anything. Plus Orsino's "BTW I help turn your mom into a zombie" bit the end....yeah not writing's finest moment. One of the reasons Starchild was also despised was because his revealations on the Reapers' motivations turned a great villain into a facepalm. Make and establish a great villian and your helping your cause immensely.
-No Auto-Dialogue/Omniscient FedEx Quests-
I'd rather have 1-2 good quests with dialogue than 12 of these. Enough said.
-More Locales/Less Reused Maps-
This has been beaten to death so I'm not sure much more needs to be said.
-Day One DLC-
If youre going to be doing this...and I know you are, use Warden's Keep as a template not Sebastian/Javik. A party member is obviously pre-written into the script which is why so many compain about it being cut content. A seperate adventure that gives me quests, exploration, gear, new dialogue/choices I can experience all at once is a better way to go. While I'm sure this will probably be cut content anway I'm more likely to look favorably on it if I get to experience it all at once rather than every time Sebastain/Javik says something "oh yeah my 10/15 bucks is finally saying something." I might not like the character for my party make up so I might miss out on what I'm paying extra for, which is more likely to make people rate it lower. Take me on a fun adventure, not have me think "well I guess I can use Sebastain now and go do his quests then never use him again."
-Above All Don't Rush-
I'm sure EA calls the shots here, so I can't say this is helpful to the developers. But to Greg and Ray I say this is about the value of the BioWare brand. You built it, fight for it. Two year lapses between releases aren't allowing you to achieve the greatness of past titles. If you want that name to continue to carry weight then you want your fans to set the internet abuzz in favor of your product, not how rushed it felt, how inadequate the ending felt, or how its an inferior product to its predecessors. Also note I said fans earlier I did not say game review sites. Sure you want good reviews from those sites, but you know you'll get them anyway because getting a 9/10 on a AAA title isn't the heruclean task it used to be so their opinion doesn't matter. Next time I go into a gamestop or get on a forum I'd love to be able to recommend a BioWare title to someone, not advise them to look elsewhere. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
TL;DR What specific features does DA3 need to get you to buy it?
01. I agree about meaningful choices and consequences. There should be no forced romances or friendships (Liara) and most definitely no retcons of characters if you have the option to kill them.
02. I disagree here. Origins combat was, to be quite honest, dreadful. It was little more than a single player MMO with party based combat. I liked DA2's combat a lot better, although the exploding enemies really didn't need to be there. I do miss the kill-cams though, and would love to see the return of the dual wielding warrior and arcane warrior spec for mages.
03. Again I disagree when it comes to the companions. Most of Origins' companions were useless. Sten and Oghren died too easily to be useful in combat, Zevran was a niche character, few actually took Dog in their party, and who could really stand to listen to Morrigan's dreadful whining? And that's just battle. Most of the companions in Origins were really not all that deep save for Alistair, Morrigan, Leliana, and perhaps Zevran. In DA2, ALL the companions had their quirks and I enjoyed the fact you could disagree and perhaps have a healthy rivalry with them without them stomping off, whereas in Origins you were pretty much forced to agree and say the right things for approval points.
04. The art is all a matter of opinion, but I liked both Origins and DA2's form. At least DA2 had some variety in the armor department and not really recolors of the same model.
05. I definitely agree with you on autodialogue. It was one of my main gripes for Mass Effect 3. It wasn't so bad in DA2, but in ME3 it was obnoxiously rampant. Autodialogue needs to be minimized or taken out completely.
06. Again, I agree. That was probably DA2's weakest point in the story in that Meredith was really not that strong of a villain. It almost felt like she was there for the sake of actually having a villain. I really felt no reason to dislike her, whereas Saren, Loghain, and the Illusive Man you had a definite reason to dislike them and lead to a climatic confrontation (and battle).
07. I couldn't agree more. FedEx quests suck. BioWare needs to take a page out of the first Mass Effect, in which the quests felt a lot deeper and more meaningful. The FedEx stuff in DA2 and ME3 were atrocious.
08. No real opinion on reused maps. Just make the areas good is all I care for.
09. I didn't mind Sebastian and Javik. That's going to be a new trend with DLC characters and that's not going anywhere. It started with Shale, continued with Zaeed (and Kasumi!), then Sebastian, then Javik, it's not going to stop anytime soon. As long as they are fully interactable and not merely 'there' like they were in Mass Effect 2 then it's all good.
10. Can't really tell a developer when to release a game. As long as they put EFFORT and make it a finished product, that's what counts. Length doesn't always mean quality (remember Too Human and other games...).
Modifié par Cyberstrike nTo, 24 août 2012 - 04:18 .
Emzamination wrote...
Huntress wrote...
The Hero doens't have to be just human, the hero doens't have to be part of an organization, many players didn't feel "OK" forced to be Warden's but i suppose am the only one with good danm memory here.
Thedas is NOT about Humans. Bioware wonder why they lose people or not make sales over 9 millions copy.. look at you're products, look at what the players ask for "different races", check what you give them "Human organization+ hero", check the game genr: fantasy... umm we are forced to play Humans in a fantasy world how.. artistic.
I wonder why they don't just stick to 1 human hero and say everything you want to say about the Humans..
What do you think their answers will be?
Bioware: DA is not about 1 person in particular..
me: but is about a particular race?... meh.
If you want to know about Orlais check the web of why is a HUMAN city.
I don't give a rat about any religion, now my DA characters are religious or they belive in their deities so I have no clue what the hell you are talking about.
If I play as a human they all belive in the Maker, if they are elves they belive in their old gold and I think if I ever make a dwarf is going to pray to the stone.. so I have no clue of what you are talking about regarding religion in DA.
I know that Inquisition is not about humans.. is about a Human group/organization, I dought dwarves will come up with a name like that, or elves..
Why wouldn't the protagonist be human in Da3? The story is revolving human centric problems such as the circle vs templars, Old gods vs the maker and ferelden vs orlais.What business would other races have in those squabbles? That's funny, from my Point of view, it seems the majority wants dragon age to focus solely on the warden as the protagonist, doesn't look like hate to me.You also realize becoming a warden was a mandatory prerequisite game and lore wise to completing the game, yes?
No one ever said thedas was about humans, they just have the biggest population.Thedas is a huge continent and in the two games that have been released, we've only been to human centric places focusing on human centric problems, so far.
Denerim and kirkwall were human citys as well but they still had a healthy population of dwarves and elves, I don't see how the ruling race of a city matters anyhow.Citys are generally human settlements while elves tend to live in the woods and dwarves underground.
All dragon age 'protagonist' must follow a religion.David said there is no such thing as Atheism in thedas.
Why would dwarves or elves be hunters of heresy? Makes no sense
A lot of great points.
Modifié par WardenWade, 24 août 2012 - 06:08 .
Emzamination wrote...
Why wouldn't the protagonist be human in Da3? The story is revolving human centric problems such as the circle vs templars, Old gods vs the maker and ferelden vs orlais.What business would other races have in those squabbles? That's funny, from my Point of view, it seems the majority wants dragon age to focus solely on the warden as the protagonist, doesn't look like hate to me.You also realize becoming a warden was a mandatory prerequisite game and lore wise to completing the game, yes?
No one ever said thedas was about humans, they just have the biggest population.Thedas is a huge continent and in the two games that have been released, we've only been to human centric places focusing on human centric problems, so far.
Denerim and kirkwall were human citys as well but they still had a healthy population of dwarves and elves, I don't see how the ruling race of a city matters anyhow.Citys are generally human settlements while elves tend to live in the woods and dwarves underground.
All dragon age 'protagonist' must follow a religion.David said there is no such thing as Atheism in thedas.
Why would dwarves or elves be hunters of heresy? Makes no sense
Huntress wrote...
Again, i dont care if a Human is a hero, all I care is to be an elf but, what am I going to be forced to play in a fantasy game? a human. see where am going to? I do not care a bit what you like or if you don't like other races, I do care and thats what matters.
Everything that happens in Thedas hit everyone living in Thedas but.. you probably have no clue of the why such a thing could happen, maybe you are new to DA and don't undestand that everything and everyone in Thedas is tied one way or another..
Some people wants the warden thats right, many others wants a new character, I rather they stick to Hawke if is a Human affair to be fair.
But if is going to be a NEW character I want it to play as an ELF because this is a fantasy game and they had their shot to "human only hero" with Hawke.
Again you jump to the conclusion I don't want my character to have a religion, mister... READ MY post, I havent talk about religion you keep pushing that **** one me:
I said and here I go again ( I hope it sink this time):
My characters all of them belive in their deities: If human the maker, if Elf the old gods and IF i ever make a dwarf, s/he will pray to the stone. got the message now? I have no clue of why you keep pushing about religion when I dont give a danm about it. Stop posting about it, i don't care who or what have been said about it either.
Now the problem with human centric places is.. THEDAS is govern by humans. If some dwarves lives in their city they are a good minority compare to humans and on top of it the city elves are alot more than dwarves, why? they are servants to the Humans.. dwarves have their own city/cave/whatever the elves do NOT so it follows they have to live with the humans..
I don't think you know what you are talking about, you are trying to defend Bioware human centric hero but you know nothing about Thedas...
The hero could be anyone not just human I guess what really stop that from happening is " Inquisition"..
make a companion to be an inquisitor and everything fits like a glove.
Heresy? I'll ignore that, I don't know what you are talking about.<_<
This argument is pointless as you continue to ignore and disregard anything I say in favor of your overly apparent Bias.How can you expect bioware to listen and make a compromise when all you do is yell demands about how the game should be tailored to your preferences based on Inaccurate lore? The foundation for your position is too weak to sit at the bargaining table.
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