307 réponses à ce sujet

[Emzamination]

chunkyman wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

The thread question ask for request and your post is posed as a request

re·quest  (r-kwst)tr.v. re·quest·ed, re·quest·ing, re·quests 1. To express a desire for; ask for. Source

You won't talk your way out of this one chunky 

That definition is in the context of asking someone to do something for you. I am not asking Bioware for anything (as I have stated repeatedly).

If I'm on the Ford forums and state that I will not purchase the next Mustang unless it has a V-8, I am not making a request to Ford that they comply with my wishes. I am making a statement in a thread because I like talking to other Ford enthusiasts

Did you not express a desire for features only bioware can offer? and as for your example, you're telling ford that if they put in a V-8, you'll make the purchase therefore making a request, directly or indirectly no matter how much you want to rationalize it.

Modifié par Emzamination, 30 août 2012 - 06:24 .

[chunkyman]

Emzamination wrote...


Did you not express a desire for features only bioware can offer? and as for your example, your telling ford that if they put in a V-8, you'll make the purchase therefore making a request, directly or indirectly no matter how much you want to rationalize it.

I'm not telling Ford, I'm telling the other posters on the Ford forum.

[Terror_K]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Nothing personal, but stop with the innocent crap. You are much smarter than that to know what I am referring to, especially since I quoted it above anyway. The attitude is the problem, along with the presumptions on how things work, and how someone needs to "learn a lesson" they never needed in the first place. 

It's funny that you say that, because I personally find BioWare's attitude to be the problem more than anything.

And my "presumptions" are based on past experience. Not just with BioWare, but with other companies and owners of IPs who drove them into the ground for the same reasons. I called this happening since before ME2 came out, and got into many an argument with pro-BioWare defenders who claimed I was wrong and being too harsh. And to be honest... I wish I had been wrong. I wish it had just been paranoia and I was seeing signs that weren't really there, or exceptions to the rule. I really do wish many of the people I was arguing against were right. But that wasn't the case.

And how my predictions came true, and BioWare is on almost the exact path I predicted back then. And maybe it was because they grew tired of arguing with me, or maybe it's because they moved onto other things, but I can't help but notice that after DA2 came out about half of my opponents left, and then after ME3 almost all that remained also left. Familiar names I used to spar with regularly just went away. I even got a few apologies from some of them via PM. Perhaps it's arrogant for me to presume that they all thought I was correct, and I don't honestly think that's the case, but... still... can't help but notice there's a lot less intense disagreement than there used to be.

In fact, this is the closest thing I've had to a heated debate since before ME3 came out. Reminded me of the good old days in a way.

I still believe BioWare needs to learn though. They need to learn theycan't stab their old fans in the back, can't deceive players with outright lies and broken promises, and can't continuously retool and retcon their IPs just to broaden appeal. And the only way they'll learn is the hard way.

[Emzamination]

chunkyman wrote...

Emzamination wrote...


Did you not express a desire for features only bioware can offer? and as for your example, your telling ford that if they put in a V-8, you'll make the purchase therefore making a request, directly or indirectly no matter how much you want to rationalize it.

I'm not telling Ford, I'm telling the other posters on the Ford forum.

No, that logic won't take flight as you're still expressing a desire you wish the ford motor company would fulfill.You don't have to give a direct order to someone in order to make a request.

Ex: "I'll purchase more bioware games if the company makes the badges prettier"

I am making a 'Indirect request' source

Addendum: on a company forum that they may use for feedback on their products.

Modifié par Emzamination, 30 août 2012 - 06:54 .

[chunkyman]

Emzamination wrote...

I am making a 'Indirect request' source

Addendum: on a company forum that they may use for feedback on their products.

If by "indirect request" you mean "telling other forumites what would make me purchase a game", then yes.

[Emzamination]

chunkyman wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

I am making a 'Indirect request' source

Addendum: on a company forum that they may use for feedback on their products.

If by "indirect request" you mean "telling other forumites what would make me purchase a game", then yes.

Yup, glad that pratfall was settled Amicably

[Emzamination]

Terror_K wrote...

I still believe BioWare needs to learn though. They need to learn theycan't stab their old fans in the back, can't deceive players with outright lies and broken promises, and can't continuously retool and retcon their IPs just to broaden appeal. And the only way they'll learn is the hard way.

Tsk Tsk I think you need to read a verse from the good book of gaider.That should answer your whole argument

[Terror_K]

Emzamination wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

I still believe BioWare needs to learn though. They need to learn theycan't stab their old fans in the back, can't deceive players with outright lies and broken promises, and can't continuously retool and retcon their IPs just to broaden appeal. And the only way they'll learn is the hard way.

Tsk Tsk I think you need to read a verse from the good book of gaider.That should answer your whole argument

I don't believe him. I don't believe the claims that their "approach hasn't changed" when all evidence and signs point to the contrary.

For one thing, we have BioWare going from defending the silent PC in DAO for many of the very same reasons that myself and many other fans supported it for, to BioWare giving us a voiced PC in DA2 and completely dismissing those prior beliefs and Mike Laidlaw basically saying, "the voiced PC is the future and I can't see us ever going back."

It's too damn obvious that BioWare has blatantly changed for them to make claims that they haven't. The basic processes may not have, but the decisions they are coming to clearly have. They've also made claims along the lines of "we're adapting and moving with the times" etc. so they can't say both that and claim that they haven't changed.

[GodWood]

I can't believe Emzamination's derped interpretation of the word request has lasted so long.

This thread is asking "What can DA3 specifically do to get you to purchase it?"

My answer: Hold a gun to my head and threaten to kill me if I don't buy it.

By Emzy's ****ed up logic I am now requesting that Bioware should hold a gun to my head and threaten to kill me.

Totally legit.

[Pasquale1234]

Emzamination wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

I still believe BioWare needs to learn though. They need to learn theycan't stab their old fans in the back, can't deceive players with outright lies and broken promises, and can't continuously retool and retcon their IPs just to broaden appeal. And the only way they'll learn is the hard way.

Tsk Tsk I think you need to read a verse from the good book of gaider.That should answer your whole argument

Taking a dev comment about one small aspect of the games out of context to liberally apply it to the entire franchise is disingenuous at best.

Modifié par Pasquale1234, 30 août 2012 - 02:10 .

[MerinTB]

LinksOcarina wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...
Simply put, if people get all up in arms (even if its a minority) like that over something meaningless as "the game is too colorful", then the project is doomed. I know what I want, I want to just play a game and be at peace, I don't want to hear people **** about something they bought into, because in the end they choose to send the deposit, they have to live with it. 

I can agree with you here, absolutely.

But I still say that the "uproar" was less than 1% of the backers.

Devils Advocate, but we can also say that the vocal minority for Mass Effect 3 is out there as well based on sales numbers and the number of people complaining about that. And since we are all RPG fans, that makes us automatically alpha nerds in terms and somewhat fickle to what we enjoy, and I use those terms lovingly. 

If its 1%, or 10%, or even 100%, the problem is that they speak the loudest. And that is all we shall hear if it goes down that road. That is my fear.

There is a WORLD of difference between:

1 - the GENERAL CONSUMERS of a product, of whom many didn't even finish the game or will ever say word one about said game to anyone even friends, and the PEOPLE WHO ARE FANS OF A SERIES AND FINISHED THE GAME having problems enough with a game that they cause an uproar enough that media outlets run multiple stories about it and the game designers themselves feel the need to address it to the point of "giving away free DLC" (see also Fallou 3)

as compared to

2 - the pre-development finanacial backers, the majority of whom are paying close attention to ever drip of information released about the game they enthusiastically backed and are excited and supportive of said game project, and the very small percentage of said backers who complained about the color scheme and layout of a pre-alpha screen shot.


I'd go so far as to torture the idiom and say a multi-verse of difference between those two scenarios.

[MerinTB]

GodWood wrote...

I can't believe Emzamination's derped interpretation of the word request has lasted so long.

This thread is asking "What can DA3 specifically do to get you to purchase it?"

My answer: Hold a gun to my head and threaten to kill me if I don't buy it.

By Emzy's ****ed up logic I am now requesting that Bioware should hold a gun to my head and threaten to kill me.

Totally legit.

Yeah, that was a pretty lame argument on Emzamination's part.

It was clear that chunyman wasn't asking BioWare for anything as he knew BioWare wasn't listening - or, at best, BioWare would glance at what he wanted, see that it didn't fit their design philosophy, and would say no...

Just... wow.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Terror_K wrote...

I don't believe him. I don't believe the claims that their "approach hasn't changed" when all evidence and signs point to the contrary.

It doesn't matter whether their approach has changed.  It matters that their product has changed.

Moreover, since they do keep insisting that their approach hasn't changed, that (if true) suggests that they didn't intend to change their product, because they weren't aware of all of the things their product was.

I think they ruined roleplaying by accident.

[mopotter]

hhh89 wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Skelter192 wrote...

Chris Avellone write the story.

No, after his statement about doing away with romance completely in games, I don't want that man touching any series I play.I had always wondered why the romance in Kotor 2 was so god awful, seems I have my answer.

While I don't think Bioware will do a game without romance content (excluding C&C:G2), but I don't think the romance content is that important.
I like romance content, but I don't think it's fundamental. For example, if I have to choose between romance content and race selection, that'll give different outcomes in the game, I'll chose the latter anytime.

  And I would choose a good romance content over race selection.  The dialogue, teasing, romance is one of the only things bioWare does that no one else does and it's one of the reason's I've always enjoyed their games.  

[Emzamination]

Terror_K wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

I still believe BioWare needs to learn though. They need to learn theycan't stab their old fans in the back, can't deceive players with outright lies and broken promises, and can't continuously retool and retcon their IPs just to broaden appeal. And the only way they'll learn is the hard way.

Tsk Tsk I think you need to read a verse from the good book of gaider.That should answer your whole argument

I don't believe him. I don't believe the claims that their "approach hasn't changed" when all evidence and signs point to the contrary.

For one thing, we have BioWare going from defending the silent PC in DAO for many of the very same reasons that myself and many other fans supported it for, to BioWare giving us a voiced PC in DA2 and completely dismissing those prior beliefs and Mike Laidlaw basically saying, "the voiced PC is the future and I can't see us ever going back."

It's too damn obvious that BioWare has blatantly changed for them to make claims that they haven't. The basic processes may not have, but the decisions they are coming to clearly have. They've also made claims along the lines of "we're adapting and moving with the times" etc. so they can't say both that and claim that they haven't changed.

How DARE you question David's word! David has been working with bioware for 13 years, I think he'd know far more about the company's past, present and future approach than that of some system opressed Left wing freedom fighting fourmite.And double that since he is also the undisputed Lead writer of the Dragon age franchise.From the unparalleled genius of Mr. gaider's god like artistic psyche, the entire Dragon age universe has come into creation and for you terror, a mere forumite to question an authenticated direct statement of one who is of such Honor, Distinction and Superior genius is unabashedly preposterous.

[Emzamination]

GodWood wrote...

I can't believe Emzamination's derped interpretation of the word request has lasted so long.

This thread is asking "What can DA3 specifically do to get you to purchase it?"

My answer: Hold a gun to my head and threaten to kill me if I don't buy it.

By Emzy's ****ed up logic I am now requesting that Bioware should hold a gun to my head and threaten to kill me.

Totally legit.

Are you implying that because the effect of such a request would be regarded as 'Immoral', it couldn't be defined as a request? Morality and logic are on two very different spectrums and have no direct influence on one another.

MerinTB wrote...


Yeah, that was a pretty lame argument on Emzamination's part.

It
was clear that chunyman wasn't asking BioWare for anything as he knew
BioWare wasn't listening - or, at best, BioWare would glance at what he
wanted, see that it didn't fit their design philosophy, and would say
no...

Just... wow.

Your arguments merits depend on my personal ability to gauge others motives, which I must say is a bit faulty.I took the post at face value as it was written and in that context, the facts regrettably lye with me ( see sources for more into)

[Emzamination]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

I still believe BioWare needs to learn though. They need to learn theycan't stab their old fans in the back, can't deceive players with outright lies and broken promises, and can't continuously retool and retcon their IPs just to broaden appeal. And the only way they'll learn is the hard way.

Tsk Tsk I think you need to read a verse from the good book of gaider.That should answer your whole argument

Taking a dev comment about one small aspect of the games out of context to liberally apply it to the entire franchise is disingenuous at best.

No, it's just circumstantial, that aspect is limited to the first line, from lines 2 to 3 his statment is no longer talking about that aspect specifically but the greater franchise as a whole.

[MerinTB]

Emzamination wrote...

MerinTB wrote...
Yeah, that was a pretty lame argument on Emzamination's part.

It was clear that chunyman wasn't asking BioWare for anything as he knew
BioWare wasn't listening - or, at best, BioWare would glance at what he
wanted, see that it didn't fit their design philosophy, and would say
no...

Just... wow.

Your arguments merits depend on my personal ability to gauge others motives, which I must say is a bit faulty.I took the post at face value as it was written and in that context, the facts regrettably lye with me ( see sources for more into)

You didn't have to gauge ANYTHING - he flat out TOLD YOU.  And you told him that he was wrong about his own intentions.

There's no gauging or guessing - there's LISTENING and BELIEVING.

[Terror_K]

Emzamination wrote...

How DARE you question David's word! David has been working with bioware for 13 years, I think he'd know far more about the company's past, present and future approach than that of some system opressed Left wing freedom fighting fourmite.And double that since he is also the undisputed Lead writer of the Dragon age franchise.From the unparalleled genius of Mr. gaider's god like artistic psyche, the entire Dragon age universe has come into creation and for you terror, a mere forumite to question an authenticated direct statement of one who is of such Honor, Distinction and Superior genius is unabashedly preposterous.

Meh... I've been fed too many outright lies and seen too much deceptive advertising execu-speak by BioWare over the past few years to suddenly believe David because he's the Lead Writer. I enjoyed Origins and his first two DA novels, for sure. But he's still supported DA2 pretty much fully and supports the dumbing-down and ruinisation of the IP. He's perfectly willing to retool the entire series just for mass appeal and stab RPG fans in the back to do it by deliberately saboutaging the sequel to be an insult to everything the original game was trying to be.

If David had any integrity, then he'd either force them to stop warping Dragon Age isn't something it shouldn't be, or he'd pack his bags and leave. That's why one of the only Dragon Age developers I still respect is Brent Knowles: because he had the sense to see where the IP was going and say, "I don't like this... I'm out!"

I can see where this company is going. I predicted it years ago before ME2, and all I've seen them do is prove me right on an almost monthly basis as BioWare slips further and further. That's more evidence than I need compared to what a BioWare employee says, especially considering their attitude lately and the lies that have come from them. Telling us that our choices would matter and have deep consequences during an entire trilogy, then completely failing to deliver at the end, only to have one of the writers say something along the lines of, "we didn't want to restrict content to new players based on a decision from three games ago."

[chunkyman]

MerinTB is correct.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Emzamination wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

I still believe BioWare needs to learn though. They need to learn theycan't stab their old fans in the back, can't deceive players with outright lies and broken promises, and can't continuously retool and retcon their IPs just to broaden appeal. And the only way they'll learn is the hard way.

Tsk Tsk I think you need to read a verse from the good book of gaider.That should answer your whole argument

I don't believe him. I don't believe the claims that their "approach hasn't changed" when all evidence and signs point to the contrary.

For one thing, we have BioWare going from defending the silent PC in DAO for many of the very same reasons that myself and many other fans supported it for, to BioWare giving us a voiced PC in DA2 and completely dismissing those prior beliefs and Mike Laidlaw basically saying, "the voiced PC is the future and I can't see us ever going back."

It's too damn obvious that BioWare has blatantly changed for them to make claims that they haven't. The basic processes may not have, but the decisions they are coming to clearly have. They've also made claims along the lines of "we're adapting and moving with the times" etc. so they can't say both that and claim that they haven't changed.

How DARE you question David's word! David has been working with bioware for 13 years, I think he'd know far more about the company's past, present and future approach than that of some system opressed Left wing freedom fighting fourmite.And double that since he is also the undisputed Lead writer of the Dragon age franchise.From the unparalleled genius of Mr. gaider's god like artistic psyche, the entire Dragon age universe has come into creation and for you terror, a mere forumite to question an authenticated direct statement of one who is of such Honor, Distinction and Superior genius is unabashedly preposterous.

Please, do not ever stop posting.

Modifié par CrustyBot, 31 août 2012 - 01:02 .

[Heimdall]

They just have to make something that sits between DA:O and DA2, honestly. I don't realistically expect a full tilt return to the former and I think the latter had a number of well intentioned if poorly implemented ideas worth holding onto.

[Terror_K]

Lord Aesir wrote...

They just have to make something that sits between DA:O and DA2, honestly. I don't realistically expect a full tilt return to the former and I think the latter had a number of well intentioned if poorly implemented ideas worth holding onto.

I disagree. From that I've read, that is their intent. It's also why DA3 will still be some half-assed hybrid affair rather than the proper pure-class RPG it should be. BioWare need to stop trying to please everybody, pretty much outright ignore DA2 and get back to their roots. But they won't. They're too caught up on "teh cinematic experience" and broadening their appeal.

[Heimdall]

Terror_K wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

They just have to make something that sits between DA:O and DA2, honestly. I don't realistically expect a full tilt return to the former and I think the latter had a number of well intentioned if poorly implemented ideas worth holding onto.

I disagree. From that I've read, that is their intent. It's also why DA3 will still be some half-assed hybrid affair rather than the proper pure-class RPG it should be. BioWare need to stop trying to please everybody, pretty much outright ignore DA2 and get back to their roots. But they won't. They're too caught up on "teh cinematic experience" and broadening their appeal.

To each his own, I still think there's a thing or to Bioware could stand to learn from DA2 beyond the negative.

[GodWood]

Emzamination wrote...

GodWood wrote...
I can't believe Emzamination's derped interpretation of the word request has lasted so long.

This thread is asking "What can DA3 specifically do to get you to purchase it?"

My answer: Hold a gun to my head and threaten to kill me if I don't buy it.

By Emzy's ****ed up logic I am now requesting that Bioware should hold a gun to my head and threaten to kill me.

Totally legit.

Are you implying that because the effect of such a request would be regarded as 'Immoral', it couldn't be defined as a request? Morality and logic are on two very different spectrums and have no direct influence on one another.

Oy vey.

No, I'm saying that despite the fact Bioware could get me to buy the game by threatening to kill me that does not mean I am requesting that they threaten to kill me.