342 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

dreman9999 wrote...
This is a war story. You would be seen as Naive to think nothing negavite will happen in a war story.
Heck, the negative emotion have been in the series since the first game. So your excuse is baseless.
Heck, If you want to go farther with it, let's look at the ending they orignally planned to do. Both choice in that ending would still end with hopelessness even more then what we have.

I'm not talking about negative events in a war story, I'm talking about the ending.

The first two games ended with hope.  Though ME2 could end on a dark not if you got most of your crew killed.  ME3 ended with no matter what you do, you're screwing the galaxy before committing suicide.  And there's no way to avoid it.  No amount of EMS, no choice, nothing can alter that. 

 Hopelessness, futility. sadness

And Bioware, in all it's artistic vision, decided that was more important than actually providing ending chcoie people would like.

[dreman9999]

Stornskar wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
No...They fixed it. You just don't like how they fixed it. Before it was unclear to what was going on. They made it clear what going on now.  It can be better but it is fixed.

You are arguing about something that's subjective as if it's a point of fact. It's fixed in your opinion, not in mine. Before, the endings were stupid; now the endings have been retconned somewhat and explained in more detail, but they're still stupid - I would argue even moreso. That's my opinion

But you yet to say why the endings are stupid.  If it because of the choice in hand, then you miss the point that the choice are made to induce persanal conflict.
If it because you don't know why it work this way with te choices, then your missing the fact that control is a rewrite and destory effects alltech.
If it because of the catalyst, you missing the fact that he has no control over the choice given outside of synthesis.He only presents the choice, is primary job is to be the voice box of the reapers.
If it's because of the motives of the reapers , then you're missing the point that the issues is of defination with the catalyst is different from organics and that the catalyst is doing what the is programed to do, he is just going to the extremes to do so.

[Miphious]

Apocaleepse360 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Monster20862 wrote...

I cared about the kid...

Why didn't you rescue the kid? I thought that would have been better. Script the kid to keep his head down. You take him back to the Normandy, and to the Citadel and place him with a family on deck E24.

Oh, lord. I can just imagine it now.
Civilian 1: "Oh man, I wish we had a kid to look after."
Civilian 2: "Yeah, that'd be just the thing we need in our lives."
Shepard: "Excuse me, I couldn't help but overhear your conversation..."

"You can pick him up in the cargo bay"

[dreman9999]

iakus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
This is a war story. You would be seen as Naive to think nothing negavite will happen in a war story.
Heck, the negative emotion have been in the series since the first game. So your excuse is baseless.
Heck, If you want to go farther with it, let's look at the ending they orignally planned to do. Both choice in that ending would still end with hopelessness even more then what we have.

I'm not talking about negative events in a war story, I'm talking about the ending.

The first two games ended with hope.  Though ME2 could end on a dark not if you got most of your crew killed.  ME3 ended with no matter what you do, you're screwing the galaxy before committing suicide.  And there's no way to avoid it.  No amount of EMS, no choice, nothing can alter that. 

 Hopelessness, futility. sadness

And Bioware, in all it's artistic vision, decided that was more important than actually providing ending chcoie people would like.

ME1 ended with idialistic hope. But that was basedon naivity.

ME2 ended less in hope but more on a willingness of facing on coming doom.

ME3 slapped us with the reality of the situation. One way or the other it would end with dread. Look up the origianal concept of the ending and you'll see my point. Drew was going to end ME3 in dreed.

Also, ems was never strated to over come the reapers. In game and by the devs, it was stated just to hold the reaper at bay for a while and protect the crucible. Conventional victory is not possible.

[Miphious]

BatmanPWNS wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

That is correct.

Then again DA:O did force you to kill off your character at the end unless you wanted to have sex with a crazy witch.

What you talking about? I send Alistair to do my dirty work.

Ditto. I had the equipment, but didn't want near that so I got Alistair to do it.

[Iakus]

dreman9999 wrote...

iakus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
This is a war story. You would be seen as Naive to think nothing negavite will happen in a war story.
Heck, the negative emotion have been in the series since the first game. So your excuse is baseless.
Heck, If you want to go farther with it, let's look at the ending they orignally planned to do. Both choice in that ending would still end with hopelessness even more then what we have.

I'm not talking about negative events in a war story, I'm talking about the ending.

The first two games ended with hope.  Though ME2 could end on a dark not if you got most of your crew killed.  ME3 ended with no matter what you do, you're screwing the galaxy before committing suicide.  And there's no way to avoid it.  No amount of EMS, no choice, nothing can alter that. 

 Hopelessness, futility. sadness

And Bioware, in all it's artistic vision, decided that was more important than actually providing ending chcoie people would like.

ME1 ended with idialistic hope. But that was basedon naivity.

ME2 ended less in hope but more on a willingness of facing on coming doom.

ME3 slapped us with the reality of the situation. One way or the other it would end with dread. Look up the origianal concept of the ending and you'll see my point. Drew was going to end ME3 in dreed.

Also, ems was never strated to over come the reapers. In game and by the devs, it was stated just to hold the reaper at bay for a while and protect the crucible. Conventional victory is not possible.

So it's smart to slap people with "reality" in the last en minutes of a 100 hour long trilogy?  I don't care what the "original concept" was since it's pretty clear they were just making the game up as they went along and were on a "dark and gritty" kick when they came up with the ending.

  It's like the trilogy started out as the Justice Leage and ended as Watchmen.

And I'm not talking about EMS or conventional victory.  I'm talking about outcomes players can live with.  So much focus was placed on making each ending "imperfect" that the end result left all of them pretty horrific to me.  Not at all like DAO where no ending was perfect, but the possible outcomes could be more or less acceptable to different players depending on who you're role playing.

[Miphious]

dreman9999 wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

knightnblu wrote... 
 
There was never any pay off for the player. A lot of us spent a lot of time and money on the trilogy and we were rewarded with crap. No matter which ending you pick, you had to take a bite off of the crap sandwich and enjoy the taste because BioWare wasn't going to let you get away with a clean taste in your mouth. Pick control you die and never see anybody you care about ever again and your friends are all Reapers. Pick synthesis and you rape the galaxy. Pick destroy and you kill the Geth and EDI. The message? Victory always blows.

If there was no payoff for the player then there would be no ending...

There's more to a payoff than a denouement. Satisfaction is a big part of that.

Thats a straw-mann just like how ME1 and ME2 had a small amount of rage just like ME3.  There's no such thing as a 100% satifactory rating and shortening the quote won't help you.

That's not true.  The rage agaist ME3's ending far overshadowed any amount of dissastisfaction against ME or ME2.  This wasn't a small group of people.  The loathing expressed towards ME3's ending was both deep and broad, and in a recent podcast Bioware even (grudgingly) admitted this and admitted this was obvious early.  You don't "rework" your ending to satisfy a few complainers.

-Polaris

Since they did rework there ending...Why are people still complaining?

Because they added salt to their crap sandwich and said 'there, now shut up'.

[Memnon]

dreman9999 wrote...

Stornskar wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
No...They fixed it. You just don't like how they fixed it. Before it was unclear to what was going on. They made it clear what going on now.  It can be better but it is fixed.

You are arguing about something that's subjective as if it's a point of fact. It's fixed in your opinion, not in mine. Before, the endings were stupid; now the endings have been retconned somewhat and explained in more detail, but they're still stupid - I would argue even moreso. That's my opinion

But you yet to say why the endings are stupid.  If it because of the choice in hand, then you miss the point that the choice are made to induce persanal conflict.
If it because you don't know why it work this way with te choices, then your missing the fact that control is a rewrite and destory effects alltech.
If it because of the catalyst, you missing the fact that he has no control over the choice given outside of synthesis.He only presents the choice, is primary job is to be the voice box of the reapers.
If it's because of the motives of the reapers , then you're missing the point that the issues is of defination with the catalyst is different from organics and that the catalyst is doing what the is programed to do, he is just going to the extremes to do so.

Right ... so what you're saying is that it's my fault that I hated the endings. Got it, thanks ...

[Reptilian Rob]

No, it failed because they promoted wingus and dingus as lead writers when the both of them combined have about as much experience with a lead writing position as I have flying a C-5 all by myself.

It's easy to write a dark, depressing story. It takes skill to do both dark and light at the same time.

[Hudathan]

New is bad. No one should try to do anything different ever. That's how we end up with memorable movies/shows/games/music/anything. *roll eyes*

[Kataphrut94]

To be fair, it is a sickeningly happy ending. After all this war, and pain, and destruction, we are givern a choice to end this brutal cycle of existance in a way that is relatively clean and painless. The mass relays are destroyed, but the surviving races (and potentially the Reapers themselves) will pick up the pieces and stear the galaxy back on track into a new golden age, either through their own gumption, the guiding hand of a benevolent Reaper AI, or through cooperation with their new techno-organic mates.

This is interspersed with shots of the various characters who've made it that far getting closure (honourable shout-out to Mr Zaeed 'Deck-Chair' Massani), the outcome of the Tuchanka and Rannoch decisions, which can be anything from flourishing utopia to barren featureless wastelands based on our choices. The final shot is of the Normandy, with all it's surviving crew flying off into the sunset before the credits roll and we get a lovely scene with an old man telling the Mass Effect story to his grandkid while being voiced by Buzz freaking Aldrin.

Granted, most of this is only apparant with Extended Cut, but all it does is show us things we already knew.

[txgoldrush]

Please....

Can this fanbase be any more moronic.

The accuse Bioware of dumbing down and appealing to the mainstream, when the ending is extremely unconventional and very uncommerical. If they dumbed ME down, there would have had you win conventionally.

They accuse ME3 of being rushed when ME1 was hell of alot more rushed. Long development time, doesn't matter. Ultima IX took 5 years, and it was completely unfinished.

And really, they should just "Spec Ops: The Line" their next game.

Modifié par txgoldrush, 24 août 2012 - 10:53 .

[txgoldrush]

[quote]blueumi wrote...


[/quote]Yep!  ME3 has also sold more then ME1 and ME2 at launch.
[/quote]

true but then people never sent returned mass effect 1 2 or dragon age for a full refund the same month it came out after geting the worst ending in video game history [/quote]

However, in fact, those games had a lot of sell backs as well....in fact saw more copies of those games far more than ME3.

Really the haters try to convince everybody that ME3 is a failure, and that it has to be bad, it just has to. That completely ignore the silent majority and teh vast majority of critics who like the game.

Yet still the most critically acclaimed game of the year......deal with it.

[txgoldrush]

Hudathan wrote...

New is bad. No one should try to do anything different ever. That's how we end up with memorable movies/shows/games/music/anything. *roll eyes*

This.....

BSN would kill Bioware far faster than EA ever will.

[txgoldrush]

Stornskar wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Stornskar wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
No...They fixed it. You just don't like how they fixed it. Before it was unclear to what was going on. They made it clear what going on now.  It can be better but it is fixed.

You are arguing about something that's subjective as if it's a point of fact. It's fixed in your opinion, not in mine. Before, the endings were stupid; now the endings have been retconned somewhat and explained in more detail, but they're still stupid - I would argue even moreso. That's my opinion

But you yet to say why the endings are stupid.  If it because of the choice in hand, then you miss the point that the choice are made to induce persanal conflict.
If it because you don't know why it work this way with te choices, then your missing the fact that control is a rewrite and destory effects alltech.
If it because of the catalyst, you missing the fact that he has no control over the choice given outside of synthesis.He only presents the choice, is primary job is to be the voice box of the reapers.
If it's because of the motives of the reapers , then you're missing the point that the issues is of defination with the catalyst is different from organics and that the catalyst is doing what the is programed to do, he is just going to the extremes to do so.

Right ... so what you're saying is that it's my fault that I hated the endings. Got it, thanks ...

Yeah, its your fault.

[palician]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

I would say its an issue of how the PTSD was handeled. They could have had some really great nightmares of friends and characters the player cares for dying in Shepard's dreams and had the player freaking out. But, with this random child that there's no emotional connection to, They're painfully bad.

Like, replace the child with your LI and they'd be so much better. Don't have an LI? Person with the highest relationship score.

This

[KENNY4753]

txgoldrush wrote...

Please....

Can this fanbase be any more moronic.

be careful what you wish for

Modifié par KENNY4753, 24 août 2012 - 11:14 .

[IanPolaris]

dreman9999 wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

knightnblu wrote... 
 
There was never any pay off for the player. A lot of us spent a lot of time and money on the trilogy and we were rewarded with crap. No matter which ending you pick, you had to take a bite off of the crap sandwich and enjoy the taste because BioWare wasn't going to let you get away with a clean taste in your mouth. Pick control you die and never see anybody you care about ever again and your friends are all Reapers. Pick synthesis and you rape the galaxy. Pick destroy and you kill the Geth and EDI. The message? Victory always blows.

If there was no payoff for the player then there would be no ending...

There's more to a payoff than a denouement. Satisfaction is a big part of that.

Thats a straw-mann just like how ME1 and ME2 had a small amount of rage just like ME3.  There's no such thing as a 100% satifactory rating and shortening the quote won't help you.

That's not true.  The rage agaist ME3's ending far overshadowed any amount of dissastisfaction against ME or ME2.  This wasn't a small group of people.  The loathing expressed towards ME3's ending was both deep and broad, and in a recent podcast Bioware even (grudgingly) admitted this and admitted this was obvious early.  You don't "rework" your ending to satisfy a few complainers.

-Polaris

Since they did rework there ending...Why are people still complaining?

Simple.  It amounts to the fact that de-Nial isn't just a river in Egypt.  For whatever reason Bioware either won't accept or can't accept why people genuininely hated the ending, and as such they nibbled and improved things along the edges but weren't actually able or willing to fix what was really wrong (starting with catalyst kid).

-Polaris

[Mazebook]

txgoldrush wrote...

The accuse Bioware of dumbing down and appealing to the mainstream, when the ending is extremely unconventional and very uncommerical. If they dumbed ME down, there would have had you win conventionally.
.

true...one of the reasons i liked it.

[blueumi]

Hudathan wrote...

New is bad. No one should try to do anything different ever. That's how we end up with memorable movies/shows/games/music/anything. *roll eyes*

it's not that it's new it makes no sense and  pulls everyone out of the game

it's mermorable for all the wrong reasons

they led us to think that we would have an ending where choice mattered it does not in that ending

bioware lied

they had chance after chance before the game came out to warn the customer that they were doing something very different with the game

thats why people got the refunds and free dlc

[iSpaceMarine]

 Mass Effect 3 didn't fail because it deviated from the standard formula. Mass Effect 3 failed because of bad writing at the ending.

The rest of the game is pretty good.

[Lionfranky]

txgoldrush wrote...

Please....

Can this fanbase be any more moronic.

The accuse Bioware of dumbing down and appealing to the mainstream, when the ending is extremely unconventional and very uncommerical. If they dumbed ME down, there would have had you win conventionally.

They accuse ME3 of being rushed when ME1 was hell of alot more rushed. Long development time, doesn't matter. Ultima IX took 5 years, and it was completely unfinished.

And really, they should just "Spec Ops: The Line" their next game.

It is true that they aimed too much at mainstream. Look at how most of our choices from previous games streamlined in ME3, resulting in almost same results. So newcomers do not have to worry about varying story.

Dialogue selection isn't as varied as previous games.

And you forgot the fact that ending was written by Hudson and Walter. Other writers were excluded from peer review. And they started working on ending at end of 2011. Sounds rushed, don't you think?
Their pride ruined the ending.

[blueumi]

maaaze wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

The accuse Bioware of dumbing down and appealing to the mainstream, when the ending is extremely unconventional and very uncommerical. If they dumbed ME down, there would have had you win conventionally.
.

true...one of the reasons i liked it.

well if upseting the gamer so they no longer want to buy from your company is a good idea then ok
they keep it up they go under they are here to make money not try to turn something that is ment to entertain people in to dumbed down nonsensical art

also if the audiance you aim at can not even get the message of your art then you have failed in every way possible

[palician]

N7Gold wrote...

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

By failed I mean the fan backlash at a time when the  trilogy was suppose to be at it's apex it hit it's low point instead.

ME3 didn't need PTSD sequences, nihilism, an unbeatable foe, or transhuman nonsense, it just needed a conventional victory with a few varying end choices based on player morality. Nothing fancy but who cares? Stick with what works.

. It's been stated that the Reapers can't be beaten by conventional methods. Was the fact that it took the entire Alliance fleet and the Normandy SR-1 to take down one Reaper not enough evidence?

To quote predator (if it bleeds we can kill it).If we can kill 1 reaper then we CAN kill them all.The thing that interested me most about me1 & even me2 was how we could defeat the reapers through logical means established within the lore of the me universe.If back then someone had told me that we find a magical off button to defeat them I would have lost interest rapidly.

[Grub Killer8016]

I'm now officially using the OP's words to be the nutshell of the ME3 powder keg.