342 réponses à ce sujet

[Jonata]

Just wanted to say that the "if it ain't broken, don't fix it" mentality is what made this year's E3 boring as hell. Developers do not even try anymore. They just give you what you want, a couple of "boom", a couple of "wow!" and the same formulas all over the place.

The fact that when BioWare tried something different it has been teared apart by his own fans will only make things worst. Personally I loved the ending, and the only game I'm truly excited for after Mass Effect 3 is David Cage "Beyond: Two Souls". You can keep shooting things and having epic boss battles, but destroying BioWare's idea for Mass Effect 3 just made the gaming world even more incapable of innovation.

EDIT: also, I know it's an old topic, but the fact that people keep saying "Mass Effect 3 failed because" and "Mass Effect 3 is bad because" says a lot about gamers' entitlement. I never saw one of these threads saying things like "My opinion is that" or "My point of view is". Oh no. "Mass Effect 3 IS bad". Because you and your friends say so. 

Modifié par Jonata, 23 août 2012 - 03:45 .

[Iakus]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Really?! Sheesh. There are options!

I really didn't know I can send them out there to do that. I thought I had to since I was the chosen one. Are there any others I forgot about or is that it?

Dragon Age: Origins has four different endings, each with its own achievement:

Ultimate Sacrifice (Warden dies)
Knight Commander (Alistair dies)
Redeemer (Logain dies)
A Dark Promise (Morrigan's Ritual)

In addition, female Wardens who romance Alistair, refuse the ritual, and are still foolish enough to bring Alistair to the archdemon fight get to see Alistair run off and take the final shot without being directed by the Warden, sacrificing himself for his beloved.

Then there's ME3 where the options are
Ultimate Sacrifice
Ultimate Sacrifice
Ultimate Sacrifice
Apathetic Sacrifice
Maaaaaaybe still alive.  What do you see in this inkblot?

[Iakus]

Jonata wrote...

Just wanted to say that the "if it ain't broken, don't fix it" mentality is what made this year's E3 boring as hell. Developers do not even try anymore. They just give you what you want, a couple of "boom", a couple of "wow!" and the same formulas all over the place.

The fact that when BioWare tried something different it has been teared apart by his own fans will only make things worst. Personally I loved the ending, and the only game I'm truly excited for after Mass Effect 3 is David Cage "Beyond: Two Souls". You can keep shooting things and having epic boss battles, but destroying BioWare's idea for Mass Effect 3 just made the gaming world even more incapable of innovation.

Doing something different =/= doing something well. 

[Twinzam.V]

iakus wrote...
Then there's ME3 where the options are
Ultimate Sacrifice
Ultimate Sacrifice
Ultimate Sacrifice
Apathetic Sacrifice
Maaaaaaybe still alive.  What do you see in this inkblot?

So many different choices. But i would choose Ultimate Sacrifice. No! Not that one, the other one. No, the one of the left. The one similar to Ultimate Sacrifice but different of Ultimate Sacrifice that doesnt sacrifice so much.

Modifié par Twinzam.V, 23 août 2012 - 03:44 .

[Jonata]

iakus wrote...

Jonata wrote...

Just wanted to say that the "if it ain't broken, don't fix it" mentality is what made this year's E3 boring as hell. Developers do not even try anymore. They just give you what you want, a couple of "boom", a couple of "wow!" and the same formulas all over the place.

The fact that when BioWare tried something different it has been teared apart by his own fans will only make things worst. Personally I loved the ending, and the only game I'm truly excited for after Mass Effect 3 is David Cage "Beyond: Two Souls". You can keep shooting things and having epic boss battles, but destroying BioWare's idea for Mass Effect 3 just made the gaming world even more incapable of innovation.

Doing something different =/= doing something well. 

Well, putting aside the fact that I liked Mass Effect 3 and the endings a lot (and, like EDI says, I am not alone), trying something new is what makes videogame evolve. You think that 80% of major developers out there creates sequels and Gears of War rip-off because they like it?

It's because anything different get **** on by gamers. The same gamers that keep buying Suda51 terrible **** because it's "cool" and "funny" and "glam". It's a terrible mentality that will never let videogames become true forms of expression like Cinema or even comic books, but will keep them in the "please the player at any cost" stage forever.

[Seifer006]

me being a bad****

[DecCylonus]

Nyoka wrote...

We just wanted a game we would like. Since the daring approach failed, now we retreat and pick the safe route, no risk, stick to the formula.

What we're really saying here, Bioware, is that we really don't want to dislike your games.

What people are really saying here is: "Bioware, stick to the formula, OR ELSE we will dislike your games."

[Jonata]

DecCylonus wrote...

Nyoka wrote...

We just wanted a game we would like. Since the daring approach failed, now we retreat and pick the safe route, no risk, stick to the formula.

What we're really saying here, Bioware, is that we really don't want to dislike your games.

What people are really saying here is: "Bioware, stick to the formula, OR ELSE we will dislike your games."

Exactly. And to be honest I can't think of something more "entitled" than that.

[Twinzam.V]

DecCylonus wrote...

Nyoka wrote...

We just wanted a game we would like. Since the daring approach failed, now we retreat and pick the safe route, no risk, stick to the formula.

What we're really saying here, Bioware, is that we really don't want to dislike your games.

What people are really saying here is: "Bioware, stick to the formula, OR ELSE we will dislike your games."

Not necessarily they can have the "WTF have you smoked approach" but as a safeguard include "no strange stuff smoked aproach".

[Headcount]

Jonata wrote...

iakus wrote...

Jonata wrote...

Just wanted to say that the "if it ain't broken, don't fix it" mentality is what made this year's E3 boring as hell. Developers do not even try anymore. They just give you what you want, a couple of "boom", a couple of "wow!" and the same formulas all over the place.

The fact that when BioWare tried something different it has been teared apart by his own fans will only make things worst. Personally I loved the ending, and the only game I'm truly excited for after Mass Effect 3 is David Cage "Beyond: Two Souls". You can keep shooting things and having epic boss battles, but destroying BioWare's idea for Mass Effect 3 just made the gaming world even more incapable of innovation.

Doing something different =/= doing something well. 

Well, putting aside the fact that I liked Mass Effect 3 and the endings a lot (and, like EDI says, I am not alone), trying something new is what makes videogame evolve. You think that 80% of major developers out there creates sequels and Gears of War rip-off because they like it?

It's because anything different get **** on by gamers. The same gamers that keep buying Suda51 terrible **** because it's "cool" and "funny" and "glam". It's a terrible mentality that will never let videogames become true forms of expression like Cinema or even comic books, but will keep them in the "please the player at any cost" stage forever.

The only reason ME3 ending got **** on by gamers is because it was bad.  There is nothing wrong with trying something different but the original endings were 97% the same. Borrowing the ending from deus ex human revolution is not trying something different.   If they had vastly different endings that refected the players choice, then its safe to say a lot more people would have been happy.

[psrz]

DuckSoup wrote...

And boy am I sick to death of seeing the same discussions. You people need to move on. 

If you're so sick of it, why do you keep reading them ? More so, why do you participate in them ? It seems you need to follow your own advice.

[Dragoonlordz]

While I prefer baby steps in series development, I also respect the rights of the developer to produce the game they wish to make just as they have said multiple times they respect the rights of the player/consumer to choose to buy/support it or not. If they do not make something I like this time around then maybe next time around they will or the time after that.

[DecCylonus]

Twinzam.V wrote...

DecCylonus wrote...

Nyoka wrote...

We just wanted a game we would like. Since the daring approach failed, now we retreat and pick the safe route, no risk, stick to the formula.

What we're really saying here, Bioware, is that we really don't want to dislike your games.

What people are really saying here is: "Bioware, stick to the formula, OR ELSE we will dislike your games."

Not necessarily they can have the "WTF have you smoked approach" but as a safeguard include "no strange stuff smoked aproach".

Unnecessary. 99.9% of video games have "no strange stuff smoked approach," also known as conventional victory. Why is it such a crime for one game to force you to sacrifice something to have victory? Aren't people tired of 1950's Hollywood endings in games yet? After all the sacrifices required in the ME series, it would have been cheap to have Shepard and the fleets blow away the Reapers without losing anything.

[SNascimento]

This is not Bioware fault. This is people fault for not being able to handle anything that is not what they want.

[Terminus Echoes]

Jonata wrote...

Just wanted to say that the "if it ain't broken, don't fix it" mentality is what made this year's E3 boring as hell. Developers do not even try anymore. They just give you what you want, a couple of "boom", a couple of "wow!" and the same formulas all over the place.

The fact that when BioWare tried something different it has been teared apart by his own fans will only make things worst. Personally I loved the ending, and the only game I'm truly excited for after Mass Effect 3 is David Cage "Beyond: Two Souls". You can keep shooting things and having epic boss battles, but destroying BioWare's idea for Mass Effect 3 just made the gaming world even more incapable of innovation.

EDIT: also, I know it's an old topic, but the fact that people keep saying "Mass Effect 3 failed because" and "Mass Effect 3 is bad because" says a lot about gamers' entitlement. I never saw one of these threads saying things like "My opinion is that" or "My point of view is". Oh no. "Mass Effect 3 IS bad". Because you and your friends say so. 

Some developers do try. Look at Halo. Every game has significant change in it, and they're the best-quality FPS games out there right now. Even Black Ops 2 is making a lot of changes to Call of Duty, which is so notorious for being copy/paste.

BioWare tried something different, yes. But it's not that fact alone that made people upset. Mass Effect 2 did a lot of things different, but I loved it. It's the fact that what Mass Effect 3 did was done so poorly that it's upsetting. Almost every part of the game is lacking. Read this for my thoughts on it: http://social.biowar...ndex/10681738/1 

And we are entitled to certain things. See the Reader-Writer Contract: http://chawnaschroed...r-contract.html 



 

[Twinzam.V]

DecCylonus wrote...

Twinzam.V wrote...

DecCylonus wrote...

Nyoka wrote...

We just wanted a game we would like. Since the daring approach failed, now we retreat and pick the safe route, no risk, stick to the formula.

What we're really saying here, Bioware, is that we really don't want to dislike your games.

What people are really saying here is: "Bioware, stick to the formula, OR ELSE we will dislike your games."

Not necessarily they can have the "WTF have you smoked approach" but as a safeguard include "no strange stuff smoked aproach".

Unnecessary. 99.9% of video games have "no strange stuff smoked approach," also known as conventional victory. Why is it such a crime for one game to force you to sacrifice something to have victory? Aren't people tired of 1950's Hollywood endings in games yet? After all the sacrifices required in the ME series, it would have been cheap to have Shepard and the fleets blow away the Reapers without losing anything.

What's the problem with that? For me there's daring and there's daring TMNT Michael Bay movie. 

[Helios969]

I can pretty much sum up the crux of most peoples' animosity: creative integrity.  Those two words should have never been uttered...gasoline on a brush fire turned it quickly into a raging forest fire.  If BSN employees had handled it more diplomatically, something like...

Wow, we're shocked by the level of negative feedback, so we the team are going to sit down and discuss what we can do to enhance the ending to make it more satisfying...

That would have placated many fans and put many minds at ease.  Despite a few flaws and the pre-EC end that left most people feeling confused, disappointed, depressed, and upset, it's a pretty good game.  I have never played a game that so thoroughly immersed me and the combat is fricking awesome. 

In anwser to this thread, Bioware largely succeeds in their games because their standard formula is to push the boundaries.  Their games are a unique experience, and I've yet to find another gaming company that can provide the same experience and/or done as well.

[Ticonderoga117]

SNascimento wrote...

This is not Bioware fault. This is people fault for not being able to handle anything that is not what they want.

Ah... no. It's not that hard to write what you want and then sell it and have people enjoy it. Mainly it involves keeping the story coherent, consistent, and sensical.

However, BioWare for some reason decided that some things just HAD to be in the game. Why? I don't know. Best guess is they wanted to try to make things artsy and flex writing muscles because apparently that's the new "in" thing. That's why the veneer of "this is not a game" broke and thus ME3 failed.

So yeah, it kinda is. They wrote it. They approved it.

[CroGamer002]

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

By failed I mean the fan backlash at a time when the  trilogy was suppose to be at it's apex it hit it's low point instead.

ME3 didn't need PTSD sequences, nihilism, an unbeatable foe, or transhuman nonsense, it just needed a conventional victory with a few varying end choices based on player morality. Nothing fancy but who cares? Stick with what works.

Yeah, you are rig-

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...
ME3 didn't need PTSD sequences, nihilism, an unbeatable foe, or transhuman nonsense, it just needed a conventional victory with a few varying end choices based on player morality.

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...
it just needed a conventional victory

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...
conventional victory

NO!
HELL NO!
ABSOLUTELY NOT!

Reapers were build up for two games to be a foe that can not be defeated conventionally!
Not even with full straight of all species in galaxy united, let alone severely beaten species finally united after months of war.

[DecCylonus]

Nyoka wrote...

DecCylonus wrote...

Nyoka wrote...

We just wanted a game we would like. Since the daring approach failed, now we retreat and pick the safe route, no risk, stick to the formula.

What we're really saying here, Bioware, is that we really don't want to dislike your games.

What people are really saying here is: "Bioware, stick to the formula, OR ELSE we will dislike your games."

No, I don't think so. I'm pretty sure many people who posted here likes voiced protagonists, the dialogue wheel, the approval/disapproval system instead of karma/alignment, loyalty missions, interruptions, and many other things Bioware has been trying as they developed new games.

The Warden has dreams, too, but they make sense so people like those. This is a hint that what people want is just a game to enjoy and have a lot of fun playing, regardless of it being safe or daring. If it's daring, all the better, but being good and fun is a necessary condition, and the daring part is an extra to make the game great instead of just good.

I don't think most people in this thread wants Bioware to release a clone of neverwinter nights.

Maybe, but it seems that the people who are always complaining on BSN define "good and fun to play" as conventional victory at the end. The fact that they weren't allowed to pound the Catalyst's face in and save everybody is enough to ruin everything for them, and I think that's sad. Instead of enjoying what they got, they accuse Bioware of bad writing, plaigerism, ret conning, and general idiocy - all because Bioware didn't write the story the way they wanted it to go. 

These people constantly say ME3 isa bad game, and that's a baseless claim. The gameplay is fun, the game has few bugs, and Bioware gave the fans tons of things they asked for. There are lots of bad games out there, with bugs galore and nigh unplayable mechanics. People lump ME3 with these over disagreement with the story, and that smacks of bitterness and entitlement. These people obviously didn't pay attention to the lore or anything Bioware has said about the series for the last five years. If they want to quit buying Bioware games over this, that's fine with me. Bungie and Activision make plenty of games that cater to their tastes.

[Ticonderoga117]

Mesina2 wrote...
Reapers were build up for two games to be a foe that can not be defeated conventionally!
Not even with full straight of all species in galaxy united, let alone severely beaten species finally united after months of war.

Huh?
In ME1 we found out that thier entire plan hinged on taking out the head of the Galaxy's government and locking down all the relays. We then killed one in a single shot after the shields failed. We then killed an incomplete one with small arms fire on a suicide mission, which we then walked away from with nary a scratch.
<_<

[Samtheman63]

well said Mesina