22 réponses à ce sujet

[Culdagor]

I was really really upset at the Landmeet, regardless of my choices, political manipulations/saving the right people it always comes down to a fight. Why?

Wasn't the point of gathering the nobles precisely to avoid simply storming into the face of Loghain and killing him?

[Dragon Age1103]

*some Spoilers for others reading*





















Well it depends on how you do it 1 you will always duel I'm pretty certain 2 you can have a larger scale battle between him & his guards against you & your companions 3 I don't think with his paranoid fear of Orlais & quest for power a fight was avoidable 4 it doesn't have to end bad you could kill him, have Alistair do it or have him join you

[Anton de Staen]

You need to gather enough votes from the nobles. If you lose, the fight erupts.

[Culdagor]

I did got more than enough votes, I've done it some 3 times to see if you could get a simple "you win", but regardles, of everything else I ALWAYS have to fight at least Loghain.

That seems rather stupid from the rPG point of view, and from a logical standpoint as well.

Mainly, what's the purpose of the Landsmeet if the vote will not be upheld except by force of arms?

[BroBear Berbil]

Culdagor wrote...

I did got more than enough votes, I've done it some 3 times to see if you could get a simple "you win", but regardles, of everything else I ALWAYS have to fight at least Loghain.

That seems rather stupid from the rPG point of view, and from a logical standpoint as well.

Mainly, what's the purpose of the Landsmeet if the vote will not be upheld except by force of arms?

You're dealing with a crazed tyrant and you're settling things in the "old way". Be thankful you didn't fisticuffs.

[timkeykong]

i had the same with a few things i confronted him with the things he did but i only got the aid from south the rest suported loghain and a big battle started i try it an other way the next time i quess

[DPSSOC]

Culdagor wrote...

I did got more than enough votes, I've done it some 3 times to see if you could get a simple "you win", but regardles, of everything else I ALWAYS have to fight at least Loghain.

That seems rather stupid from the rPG point of view, and from a logical standpoint as well.

Mainly, what's the purpose of the Landsmeet if the vote will not be upheld except by force of arms?

It's entirely for the story.  From an outside-looking-in perspective no it doesn't make sense but the Characters don't know it's going to come down to a fight.  Eamon proposes the Landsmeet as a means of avoiding conflict, he even points out that if you can't get enough support youre side will have to back down so everyone can focus on the darkspawn.  Even if you manage to gain that support Loghain is irrationally paranoid and refuses to abide by the decision so you have to fight him.  It's the same with NWN2 in the trial, what's the point if it comes down to trial by combat anyway.  If you took out all the unnecessary (from a gameplay perespective) story elements the game would be a whopping 3 minutes long,

[Original182]

I think people just want the Landsmeet to mean something. Maybe by winning the Landsmeet, after the duel the nobles will show their support for Alistair by giving him extra army support, financial assistance, etc.

But winning the Landsmeet doesn't do anything. At best it only skipped the brawl and allowed you to duel Loghain directly. It's almost like going all the way to get Andraste Ashes, only for Arl Eamon to wake up without needing it and go "Oh it's ok, I was only having a headache."

People do like the Landsmeet, but I have to agree the duel cheapens it's story value.

[0mar]

The Landsmeet is stupid. What a waste of time that thing was. Why bother with it when the outcome is going to be the same? There could have been better ways to handle that whole ordeal. I don't understand why Alistair and I don't march straight to Denerim after Lothering, call a duel with Loghain and kill him right there. Alistair should have that much power, being the bastard son of Maric.

[DPSSOC]

0mar wrote...

The Landsmeet is stupid. What a waste of time that thing was. Why bother with it when the outcome is going to be the same? There could have been better ways to handle that whole ordeal. I don't understand why Alistair and I don't march straight to Denerim after Lothering, call a duel with Loghain and kill him right there. Alistair should have that much power, being the bastard son of Maric.

2 problems

1) As Grey Wardens you're outlaws and if you were to officially call out Loghain he'd just have you arrested or killed.

2) You have no proof that Alistair is the bastard son of Maric.  Since you can't do a paternity test you only have his word and Arl Eamon's that he is indeed the bastard son of Maric and without far more than that Alistair has no power at all.

[Dark83]

The Landsmeet is pretty much the NWN2 trial. You have all these "sidequests", and if you do them, you get to see the effects of doing them correctly. However, for the sake of the story, you'll end up fighting anyways.

Essentially it's a way to give the players the illusion of freedom and show the fruits of their efforts without changing the story/gameplay notably.

[trueKieran]

DPSSOC wrote...

2 problems

1) As Grey Wardens you're outlaws and if you were to officially call out Loghain he'd just have you arrested or killed.

2) You have no proof that Alistair is the bastard son of Maric.  Since you can't do a paternity test you only have his word and Arl Eamon's that he is indeed the bastard son of Maric and without far more than that Alistair has no power at all.

This. In terms of story, the Landmeet is to give you a chance to even confront Loghain in public without his guards trying to arrest you immediately. He claims all grey wardens are traitors, so all who follow him will either agree or accept this. I agree that it's sad for the difference between "winning" and "loosing" to be so small, but it's nothing new for a Bioware game, no matter how good it is, to offer you choices that have little to no effect at all, just think about all the conversations with Aribeth from NWN that didn't have any impact on what she was about to do. They do make progress however, still slowly though.

Modifié par trueKieran, 23 décembre 2009 - 06:37 .

[HarlequinDream]

I see it as, in a way, establishing your legitimacy.

Had you called Loghain out in the streets of Denerim, you're an outlaw looking for a bloodbath. You get the bloodbath if you play the Landsmeet wrong, and those remaining could be said to stand with you out of fear. If you win the Landsmeet, however, you have the support of the Nobles. Loghain still stands against you, so you duel him and settle, if you will, your personal issues with honor.

In a way, the Landsmeet is a way for you to claim some legitimacy for choosing who will rule Ferelden next as well as asking the nobles to allow Loghain to answer for his crimes.

Modifié par HarlequinDream, 23 décembre 2009 - 07:21 .

[Bibdy]

Think of a better way for the player to not insta-lose the entire game because they failed to impress a few nobles. The 'duel' thing is a loophole to allow the player a, no pun intended, fighting chance of continuing with the game, despite a political failure and also serves as an opportunity to beat Loghain senseless.

[KalosCast]

Dark83 wrote...

The Landsmeet is pretty much the NWN2 trial. You have all these "sidequests", and if you do them, you get to see the effects of doing them correctly. However, for the sake of the story, you'll end up fighting anyways.

The landsmeet, while fun, needs Sand.

[ShadowAldrius]

The duel is to avoid bloodshed, because Loghain refuses to accept the result. If you don't duel him, a bigger battle breaks out. If you lose, a bigger battle breaks out.



The point of the duel isn't to win the Landsmeet. The point of the duel is to satisfy Loghain so he doesn't keep fighting you. Or, if you lost the Landsmeet, it's to sway the votes in your favour.

[robertthebard]

The Landsmeet is there so you can finally kill Alistair, or let him run off to get drunk. My only complaint is that it's way too far into the story.

[Culdagor]

I comming from a legitimacy point of view, if the nobles feel that everything can be done simply by pure strenght of arms in single duel, there would be no politics (not that that would be a bad thing, but still).



If you have any sort of council, with a vote, and then you simply resort to force of arms, what was the point of the council in the first place?



Would there even be a third of forth if the first and second would be resolved in duels?



There is no logic in the duel after the landsmeet.

[KnightofPhoenix]

robertthebard wrote...

The Landsmeet is there so you can finally kill Alistair, or let him run off to get drunk. My only complaint is that it's way too far into the story.

This.

[Vicious]

The Landsmeet felt rushed: It felt a LOT like the trial in NWN2: No matter what it ends with a duel.



However unlike the NWN2 version [and here's why it feels rushed]



It's short. Really short. There's only... what... 4 or 5 dialogue paths and then everyone votes. And what dialogue path gets what vote is largely arbitrary. You can talk about one thing and get the revered mother to condemn Loghain, or you can say something else to get a noble to condemn Loghain: But you can't present all your evidence if you did everything, and you have no way outside of these boards to know that the Revered Mother counts for more than any Noble there. As Is aid, largely arbitrary.





NWN2 had very lengthy dialogue trees and your character could speak for himself against his accusors or get one of his companions to speak for him [opening up some interesting things] Moreover, once the duel was announced, you didn't fight in on the spot [WTF was up with that?] Instead you spent an evening making peace with yourself and your companions came in to offer their insights or assistance depending on how much they liked you, or even beg to fight in your place. CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT. As opposed to the Landsmeet which you get development from... Alistair... and that's it.



It's all sudden and feels rushed. If it was going to end in a duel it could have been so much better and put more weight on the PC. Instead its just Hey you did this and this now lets fight over it!



ech. Poorly done.

[Mistress9Nine]

While I agree that the fight there s pretty lame, I think the landsmeet is quite good. For example it's a meeting of nobles so unless you are a human noble your word shouldn't matter at all, even though you're a GW, Loghain should still be much more trustworthy in the eyes of nobles. That's why I agree that a completely violance-free encounter suits it better than if you could convince everyone to side with you and Loghain just going to prison or something.

[Ulrik the Slayer]

I wish we had such politics in real life. It'd mean this "War on terror" would've been handled by the UN calling a meeting and having Bush and Saddam settle it with pistols at dawn.