84 réponses à ce sujet

[corlist]

Statistics
AP IV (50% bonus damage (health and armor only), 90% armor piercing, ? extra penetration distance)
-Note: AP Ammo's piercing property does not work with the N7 Typhoon, see here for more details.
-Note: AP ammo is bugged, see here for more details.
Warp IV (60% bonus damage (to everything except shields), 65% armor weakeaning)
Incendiary IV (50% bonus damage as DoT over 3 seconds (health and armor only), no armor weakening, DoT damage increase greatly when stacked)
Cryo IV (65% armor weakening, only applies when chilled/frozen, warp ammo applies weakening on every shot)
Disruptor IV (25% bonus damage (vs health), 100% bonus damage (vs shields/barriers), extra details below) 
---
Cyclonic Modulator IV (+150% base shields)
Power Amplifier Module IV (+50% base power damage)

Compared to level 3
AP IV (+20% bonus damage, +20% armor piercing)
Warp IV  (+25% bonus damage, +15% armor weakening)
Disruptor IV (+10% bonus damage)
Cryo IV (+15% armor weakening)
Incendiary IV (+20% bonus damage as DoT)
---
Cyclonic Modulator IV (+50% base shields)
Power Amplifier Module IV (+20% base power damage) 

Test 1 vs Gold Ravager (AP IV test)
N7 Demolisher
Claymore X
Barrel V 25%
Passives 17.5%

Modified damage
206 * 1.425 = 293.55

observed damage
8100 - 4967.6015625 = 3,132.3984375

Calculation
( (206 * 0.5) + (293.55 - (50 * 0.1)) ) * 8 = 3,132.4

========================================

Test 2 vs Bronze Ravager (Warp IV test)
N7 Demolisher
Raptor X
97.7 base damage
Barrel V 25%
Passives 17.5
SR Gear V 15%

Modified damage
97.7 * 1.575 = 153.8775

Observed damage
3600 - 3392.75244140 = 207.2475586

Calculation
(97.7 * 0.60) + (153.8775 - (15 * 0.35)) = 207.2475

- The 60% damage bonus was first derived from the scorpion test (below)

Scorpion III
396.04445 base damage
Barrel V 25%
Passives 17.5%
Modified damage

396.04445 * 1.425 = 564.36334

Observed damage
3600 - 2,798.009951016 = 801.990048984

Calculation
(396.04445 * 0.60) + (564.36334 - 0) = 801.99001
- Scorpion ignores armor DR, see this page for details

======================================== 

Test 3 vs Bronze Cannibal (Disruptor IV test)

GE
Scorpion III
396.04445 base damage
+25% barrel

Observed Damage (Stick-on-body shot)
900 - 305.93319091 = 594.06680909

Calculation
(396.04445 * 0.25) + (396.04445 * 1.25) = 594.066675

- Disruptor IV does +25% base damage. Works on health.

Note: Innocent bystander cannibal also took damage

Observed Damage
900 - 404.944427490 = 495.05557251

Calculation
396.04445 * 1.25 = 495.0555625

- As expected from peddro's testing with the Scorpion.

---

Raptor X (Bronze cannibal scoped bodyshot)
97.7 base damage
+25% barrel
+15% SR gear V

Observed Damage
900 - 738.795043945 = 161.204956055

Calculation
(97.7 * 0.25) + (97.7 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.15)) = 161.205

- Results consistent with calculations

---

Raptor X (Bronze cannibal unscoped bodyshot)

Observed Damage
900 - 762.975769042 = 137.024230958

0.85 * (97.7 * 0.25) + (97.7 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.15)) = 137.02425

- Unscoped sniper penalty applies to base weapon damage.

======================================== 

Test 4 vs Marauder Shields
Raptor X

Observed Damage
675 - 513 = 162

(97.7 * 0.25) + (97.7 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.15)) = 161.205 (rounded up)

- Works for shields as expected, no extra damage vs shields

----------

Misc. tests

Disruptor IV Tech burst (with level 6 power)

Observed Damage
900 - 637.5 = 262.5

- Note: I had to play "cannibal farmer" for a few minutes before this was done.
- Requires numerous other tests to find out more on tech burst mechanics.

---

Disruptor effect chance
100 Scorpion shots vs cannibals
77/100 (77%)

- Note: When the Scorpion round exploded, other cannibals in the AoE never had a visible electric effect applied on them.

100 Raptor shots vs cannibals
16/100 (16%)

Disruptor Effect visible duration (may not be tech-burstable)
Duration 5.5s - 6s (presumed to be 3.5 seconds)

Shield recharge delay increase
8 seconds (as with other disruptor ammo)

======================================== 

Test 5 vs Bronze Cannibal (Cryo IV)

GE
Raptor X (Frozen Bronze cannibal scoped bodyshot)
97.7 base damage
+25% barrel
+15% SR gear V

Observed Damage
900 - 763.219970703 = 136.780029297

Calculation
(97.7 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.15)) = 136.78

- Completely frozen targets do not take extra damage when applied by Cryo IV.
- Cannibals stop regenerating health only when completely frozen. Regeneration begins immediately when they start moving, before thawing is complete.

---

Raptor X (Frozen Bronze cannibal scoped headshot)

Observed Damage
900 - 558.049987792 = 341.950012208

Calculation
(97.7 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.15)) * 2.5 = 341.95
- Headshots also don't do extra damage to targets frozen by Cryo IV.

----------

Test 6 Raptor X (Bronze Ravager)

No chill
Observed Damage
3600 - 3478.21997070 = 121.7800293

Chilled
3600 - 3468.46997070 = 131.5300293

Calculation (no chill active)
(97.7 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.15) - 15) = 121.78

Calculation (chill active)
(97.7 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.15) - (15 * 0.35)) = 131.53
- Cryo IV armor weakening is 65%.
- The chance of the chill effect is rather low, making it a poor weakening choice when compared with warp ammo, which applies 100% of the time.

---

Cryo IV freeze chance
100 Raptor shots vs bronze cannibals
25/100

======================================== 

Test 7 vs Bronze Cannibal (Incendiary IV test)
N7 Demolisher
Scorpion III
396.04445 base damage
Barrel V 25%
Passives 17.5%

Modified damage
396.04445 * 1.425 = 564.36334

Observed damage (stick-on-body shot)
900 - 137.614349365 = 762.385650635

Calculation
(396.04445 * 0.5) + 564.36334 = 762.385565
- Incendiary IV's damage bonus is 50%.
- Incendiary IV does not add a multiplicative bonus vs health with a single shot.

Frame-by-frame health values
900 [starting health]
866.997276855 (-33.002723145) [impact with Scorpion did 0 damage]
833.992553710 (-33.004723145)
800.988830566 (-33.003723144)
203.621765136 (-564.36334 - 33.00372543) [round explodes]
170.618057250 (-33.003707886)
137.614349365 (-33.003707885)

DoT duration is about 3 seconds.

======================================== 

Test 8 vs Bronze Ravager (Incendiary I)
Scorpion III ((469 - 375.2) / 9) * 2 + 375.2 = 396.0444
+2.5% passives

Modified
(396.0444 * 1.025) = 405.94551

Incendiary I (10% damage as DoT)

observed indirect shot
3600 - 3194.05444335 = 405.94555665
- As expected
- Any number of indirect shots do 100% consistent damage

Observed direct shot
3600 - 3154.44946289 = 445.55053711

Calculation(396.0444 * 0.1) + (405.94551) = 445.54995
- Incendiary I does 10% damage as DoT vs armor

2 direct shots
2633.55883789
2632.79565429
2632.80126953
2632.99047851
2629.76025390

Highest observed damage
3600 - 2629.76025390 = 970.2397461

Calculation
445.55053711 * 2 = 891.10107422 (wrong)

Total Damage - 2 indirect shots = Observed DoT
970.2397461 - 405.94555665 * 2 = 158.3486328

Expected (normal) DoT
(396.0444 * 0.1) * 2 = 79.20888

- 2 stacked DoTs are doing about 200% more DoT damage than expected

3 direct shots
2120.51977539
2096.25341796
2095.28759765
2095.86962890
2082.14721679
2081.94482421

Highest observed damage
3600 - 2081.94482421 = 1518.05517579

Calculation
Total Damage - 3 indirect shots = Observed DoT
1518.05517579 - 405.94555665 * 3 = 300.21850584

Expected (normal) DoT
(396.0444 * 0.1) * 3 = 118.81332
- About 50% more DoT damage than 2 + 1 (2 stacked DoTs + 1 separate)
- About 152% more DoT damage than 1 + 1 + 1 (3 separate DoTs)

4 direct shots
1593.45263671
1590.63354492
1576.5185546875
1577.3584257

Highest observed damage
3600 - 1576.5185546875 = 2023.4814453125

Calculation
Total Damage - 4 indirect shots = Observed DoT
2023.4814453125 - 405.94555665 * 4 = 399.6992187125

Expected (normal) DoT
(396.0444 * 0.1) * 4 = 158.41776
- About 17.6% more DoT damage than 3 + 1
- About 68.2% more DoT damage than 2 + 1 + 1
- About 152% more DoT damage than 1 + 1 + 1 + 1

Carnifex X (no mods, nothing) Shot by someone else
345.1

1 direct + 1 carnifex shot

Observed damage
3600 - 2824.34936523 = 775.65063477

Calculation
(396.0444 * 0.1) + (405.94551) + (345.1 - 15) = 775.64995
- Incendiary ammo does not apply armor weakening effect even when the target is burning

======================================== 

N7 Demolisher (Cyclonic IV test)
No fitness
600 shields

In-game
1500 shields
1500 / 600 = 2.5

- Cyclonic IV gives +150% base shields

---

Extra test
In supply pylon (+25%)
1650 shields

- Supply pylon gives +25% of base shields

======================================== 

GE (Power Amp IV test)
Overload 220 base damage (ranks +20% and 30%, neural shock)
No passives

Modified damage
220 * (1 + 0.2 + 0.3) * 0.5 * 2 = 330

Bronze cannibal (without consumables)
900 - 570 = 330

- Overload does 50% damage to organic health.
- Neural shock increases damage to organic health by 100%

---

Bronze cannibal (Power amp IV)
900 - 460 = 440

Calculation
220 * (1 + 0.2 + 0.3 + 0.5) * 0.5 * 2 = 440

- Power Amp IV's damage bonus is 50%.

======================================== 

Many thanks to my test-buddy Eelectrica for helping me hasten the in-game process.
Thanks to jstarpaul for his Inc IV vs shields test.

Modifié par corlist, 05 octobre 2012 - 02:33 .

[Uchimura]

Oh awesome. Thank you!

[corlist]

bump for Warp IV test

[Big Jack Shepard]

That is a wall of numbers that I am sure many people find fascinating.

How much more damage does it do than level III?

[corlist]

Big Jack Shepard wrote...

That is a wall of numbers that I am sure many people find fascinating.

How much more damage does it do than level III?

AP III 30% damage, 70% armor piercing
Warp III 35% damage, 50% armor weakening

AP IV 50% damage, 90% armor piercing
Warp IV 60% damage, 65% armor weakening

Updated OP with an actual quick summary

Modifié par corlist, 23 août 2012 - 12:11 .

[corlist]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Is that a plain +60% damage for Warp IV, or has it lower levels of armor/health damage boni like in SP?


I really wished BioWare folks would publicize the stats on those equipments.

Yes it's a plain +60% base damage, it has no relation with SP.

Tell me about it man, I wouldn't have to go through all these trouble otherwise.

[Uchimura]

Sorry, I don't want to take this too off topic, I'm just curious what armor 'weakening' does? Proc? Bonus damage or basically a group AP buff vs the target?

[corlist]

Uchimura wrote...

Sorry, I don't want to take this too off topic, I'm just curious what armor 'weakening' does? Proc? Bonus damage or basically a group AP buff vs the target?

Piercing only applies to your gun.

Weakening applies a ~2 second armor penalty on the target who is hit. According to peddro, armor weakening effects (Cryo blast, Warp, Warp ammo, etc) override either other and cannot stack.

[Big Jack Shepard]

corlist wrote...

Big Jack Shepard wrote...

That is a wall of numbers that I am sure many people find fascinating.

How much more damage does it do than level III?

AP III 30% damage, 70% armor piercing
Warp III 35% damage, 50% armor weakening

AP IV 50% damage, 90% armor piercing
Warp IV 60% damage, 65% armor weakening

Updated OP with an actual quick summary

  Thank you

[Uchimura]

A little confusing with all the similar terms. Negation = what AP mods have, yes? Is this applied to the first shot fired, or does the first shot prime the 2 second window?

[corlist]

Uchimura wrote...

A little confusing with all the similar terms. Negation = what AP mods have, yes? Is this applied to the first shot fired, or does the first shot prime the 2 second window?

Negation = A loose term meaning any mod or power or ability that reduces armor value.

Both. The first shot will take advantage from the weakening effect, and it will prime the 2 second window.

[peddroelm]

Armor weakening (sources: cryo blast, snap freeze, warp, warp ammo..) timed party friendly debuff applied to the target .. It lowers Target armor DR for the duration .. (weakening effects do not stack - they override each other) ...

Armor Piercing (sources: AP piercing mods, AP ammo) - its an always on bonus for the player (can get past 100% but you won't get extra damage for it).. Also works on Target DR (which could've been previously weakened by various sources- see above) ...

--------
Ammo Power damage hits the target before actual weapon damage .. So the armor weakening effect will apply before actual weapon damage which will hit weakened armor...

Modifié par peddroelmz, 23 août 2012 - 12:31 .

[Uchimura]

Thanks for the info and clarification.

[yarpenthemad21]

peddroelmz wrote...

Armor weakening (cryo blast, snap freeze, warp, warp ammo..) timed party friendly debuff applied to the target .. It lowers Target armor DR for the duration .. (weakening effects do not stack - they override each other) ...

Armor Piercing (AP piercing mods, AP ammo) - its an always on bonus for the player (can get past 100% but you won't get extra damage for it).. Also works on Target DR (which could've been previously weakened by various sources- see above) ...

so weaken does not stack with each other? there was a rumor that paladin freeze  shield melee + snap freeze = 100% armor debuff.

Also I'm quite sure that incendiary ammo has some weaken armor effect, damage gain vs armor with reegar and PPR is too high.

Modifié par yarpenthemad21, 23 août 2012 - 12:36 .

[peddroelm]

yarpenthemad21 wrote...
 there was a rumor that paladin freeze  shield melee + snap freeze = 100% armor debuff.

 

Paladin shield melee has a promotion that allows it to cast snap freeze on strike ..Extremly unlikely the weakening would stack especially since is from the same source (snap freeze) .. For this reason my paladin curently uses the fire shield .. But I might promote him for this weekend event to test and dispel this rumor ...

yarpenthemad21 wrote... 
Also I'm quite sure that incendiary ammo has some weaken armor effect, damage gain vs armor with reegar and PPR is too high.

Stacking DOTs like incendiary ammo from fast hitting weapons has strange results (do a search on incendiary ammo warp bug) ... But it might not have anything to do with incendiary ammo provinding armor weakening .. Anyway corlist or I will soon test incendiary ammo for armor weakening properties and eventually the suspect - too much damage - combinations (PPR & Incendiary ) .. 

Modifié par peddroelmz, 23 août 2012 - 12:41 .

[synapsefire]

peddroelmz wrote...

yarpenthemad21 wrote...
 there was a rumor that paladin freeze  shield melee + snap freeze = 100% armor debuff.

 

Paladin shield melee has a promotion that allows it to cast snap freeze on strike ..Extremly unlikely the weakening would stack especially since is from the same source (snap freeze) .. For this reason my paladin curently uses the fire shield .. But I might promote him for this weekend event to test and dispel this rumor ...

yarpenthemad21 wrote... 
Also I'm quite sure that incendiary ammo has some weaken armor effect, damage gain vs armor with reegar and PPR is too high.

Stacking DOTs like incendiary ammo from fast hitting weapons has strange results (do a search on incendiary ammo warp bug) ... But it might not have anything to do with incendiary ammo provinding armor weakening .. Anyway corlist or I will soon test incendiary ammo for armor weakening properties and eventually the suspect - too much damage - combinations (PPR & Incendiary ) .. 

Even if the Paladin Cryo Shield weakening stacks it's not the main reason for picking the cryo shield imo. Use ammo/mods to get there and you won't have to shieldbash armored targets every 5 seconds.

In my experience Incendiary ammo is just way more powerful against armor than Warp ammo. According to the information on these ammo types floating around this should not be the case.

Looking forward to see the results of future tests. Thanks.

[yarpenthemad21]

peddroelmz wrote...

Paladin shield melee has a promotion that allows it to cast snap freeze on strike ..Extremly unlikely the weakening would stack especially since is from the same source (snap freeze) .. For this reason my paladin curently uses the fire shield .. But I might promote him for this weekend event to test and dispel this rumor ...

main reason to use chill shields is that it can make phantom frozen. it's fun.

so weaking effect doesn't stack. but if for example warp weaken stacks with snap freeze effect?

peddroelmz wrote... 
Stacking DOTs like incendiary ammo from fast hitting weapons has strange results (do a search on incendiary ammo warp bug) ... But it might not have anything to do with incendiary ammo provinding armor weakening .. Anyway corlist or I will soon test incendiary ammo for armor weakening properties and eventually the suspect - too much damage - combinations (PPR & Incendiary ) .. 

my simple test on gold atlas armor with ppr (barrel + clip) on krentinel told me that incendiary ammo gives about 75% more damage vs armor.

base on you math and formulas, ammo power damage is just flat bonus from base weapon damage. reegar with 50% multiplier vs armor and low damage per bullet moslty bypass it with incendiary (flat 30% from normal base damage). But still damage gain is just too high.
Do we know how multiplier damage bonuses (like tactical scan on PM ) effects ammo powers? 

Maybe DoT damage has some round error and that's why damage gain is so high?
Or it could by armor weaken, but still on reegar it doesn't explain the damage (on PPR probably does).

Modifié par yarpenthemad21, 23 août 2012 - 01:43 .

[peddroelm]

yarpenthemad21 wrote...

so weaking effect doesn't stack. but if for example warp weaken stacks with snap freeze effect?

Weakening effects do not stack . Ever .

yarpenthemad21 wrote... 

my simple test on gold atlas armor with ppr (barrel + clip) on krentinel told me that incendiary ammo gives about 75% more damage vs armor.

 

As in 75% more damage per shot (by extension clip ) ? 

 
base on you math and formulas, ammo power damage is just flat bonus from base weapon damage. reegar with 50% multiplier vs armor and low damage per bullet moslty bypass it with incendiary (flat 30% from normal base damage). But still damage gain is just too high.
Do we know how multiplier damage bonuses (like tactical scan on PM ) effects ammo powers? 

Maybe DoT damage has some round error and that's why damage gain is so high?
Or it could by armor weaken, but still on reegar it doesn't explain the damage (on PPR probably does).

Reegar is not a good weapon for testing .. Past the first shot it does innconsistant damage - seems to waste ammo when you keep the trigger down .. You get more damage out of a clip by firing it in very short bursts..

PM (proximity mine ?) will also increase ammo power damage, melee damage or power damage (all damage sources) ... 
Tactical Scan - have yet to test it ...

[yarpenthemad21]

peddroelmz wrote...

Weakening effects do not stack . Ever .

so is it possible to screw someone else weakening effect? like casting low level warp or using low level ammo powers on targets affected by maxed cryo blast? For example to guys shooting at atlas, one with warp ammo III, second with warp ammo IV. How it work then?
Also stacking could be different, target with for example cryo + warp could have armor reduction 50(1-.5)*(1-.5) = 12,5, instead of 0 with additive stacking. But if it does not stack, it does not stack. 

peddroelmz wrote... 

As in 75% more damage per shot (by extension clip ) ? 

per whole clip with clip mod. 4 bars of armor without incendiary, 7 with.

 
peddroelmz wrote... 

Reegar is not a good weapon for testing .. Past the first shot it does innconsistant damage - seems to waste ammo when you keep the trigger down .. You get more damage out of a clip by firing it in very short bursts..

PM (proximity mine ?) will also increase ammo power damage, melee damage or power damage (all damage sources) ... 
Tactical Scan - have yet to test it ...

I suggest test with some scorpion (or other ignoring armor weapon) to get the damage of it. Then with widow for example (you should see the difference if some weakining effect exists). With good formulas it's possible to test PPR and answer question what's wrong with its damage.

Modifié par yarpenthemad21, 23 août 2012 - 02:32 .

[synapsefire]

peddroelmz wrote...


Weakening effects do not stack . Ever .

You really need to elaborate on this. Are u saying that a Warp on a Brute will do nothing for players with Warp ammo, shredder mod or similar?  

If you are that renders a lot of powers, equipments etc. near useless.

Modifié par synapsefire, 23 août 2012 - 03:58 .

[peddroelm]

synapsefire wrote...

peddroelmz wrote...


Weakening effects do not stack . Ever .

You really need to elaborate on this. Are u saying that a Warp on a Brute will do nothing for for players with Warp ammo, shredder mod or similar?  

If you are that renders a lot of powers, equipments etc. near useless.

Warp on a brute will not do anything for a player that has warp ammo consumable from an armor reduction perspective  (assuming have they equal levels of armor weakening) .. But typically warp is evolved to debuff targets to take extra damage from weapon attacks ..That still works ...

Shotgun shredder is a weapon add-on that offers AP piercing (not weakening) - it will reduce the weakened armor further for the person that has it equipped ...

Modifié par peddroelmz, 23 août 2012 - 03:59 .

[synapsefire]

peddroelmz wrote...

synapsefire wrote...

peddroelmz wrote...


Weakening effects do not stack . Ever .

You really need to elaborate on this. Are u saying that a Warp on a Brute will do nothing for for players with Warp ammo, shredder mod or similar?  

If you are that renders a lot of powers, equipments etc. near useless.

Warp on a brute will not do anything for a player that has warp ammo consumable from an armor reduction perspective  (assuming have they equal levels of armor weakening) .. But typically warp is evolved to debuff targets to take extra damage from weapon attacks ..That still works ...

Shotgun shredder is a weapon add-on that offers AP piercing (not weakening) - it will reduce the weakened armor further for the person that has it equipped ...

This leaves me with a few more questions though?

Is the stacking additive or multiplicative?
How does the engine determine which effect to prioritize? Will a 50% Warp get overwritten by Cryo Ammo I?
Are there other forms of armor penalty reduction? How about Homing grenades "Weapon Damage Mitigation"?