59 réponses à ce sujet

[RedCaesar97]

I like Concussive Shot on a Soldier. It is good for some quick crowd control (with a very quick cooldown) and it can detonate tech bursts. On the surface, the rank 6 evolution Amplification appears to be a good evolution for Concussive Shot.

Amplification: Power Concussive Shot with the properties of the active ammo power, enabling it to burn, freeze, disrupt, warp, or pierce armor.

However, if you are going to evolve Concussive Shot to rank 6, is Amplification actually worth taking as an evolution? I ran some tests with the various ammo powers.

Amplified Concussive Shot with AP Ammo:
Will Amplified Concussive Shot with AP Ammo penetrate cover? No.

Amplified Concussive Shot with Cryo Ammo:
Will Amplified Concussive Shot with Cryo Ammo freeze enemies? Yes. 

Will Amplified Concussive Shot with Cryo Ammo prime enemies for a Cryo Explosion (test 1)? Sometimes?

Will Amplified Concussive Shot with Cryo Ammo prime enemies for a Cryo Explosion (test 2)? Yes. But enemies need to be completely frozen, and it can take a long time before they are completely frozen.

Amplified Concussive Shot with Disruptor Ammo:
Will Amplified Concussive Shot with Disruptor Ammo set up tech bursts? Part 1 (worse test) No. Lesser of the two tests, used double Chain Overload on both Garrus and EDI.

Will Amplified Concussive Shot with Disruptor Ammo set up tech bursts? Part 2 (better test) Still No. Better of the two tests, did not use any Chain Overloads.

NOTE: There seems to be a misconception that Amplification with Disruptor Ammo is required to detonate tech bursts. To prove that you do not need Amplification,  here is a video showing a Soldier with the Viper detonating tech bursts with the Shredder evolution; build is shown at the end of the video. I used Disruptor Ammo to set up the tech burst. Credit to known_hero for suggesting I add this to the post. 

Amplified Concussive Shot with Incendiary Ammo:
Will Amplified Concussive Shot using Incendiary Ammo with Explosive Burst explode? Part 1 Apparently not. Kind of hard to tell.

Will Amplified Concussive Shot using Incendiary Ammo with Explosive Burst explode? Part 2 Still hard to tell. I do not think it does.

Amplified Concussive Shot with Incendiary Ammo - Damage versus Explosive Burst Comparison. Draw your own conclusions. They look about the same; damage may get the edge.

Will Amplified Concussive Shot with Incendiary Ammo set up Fire Explosions? Yes.

Patch 1.04 changed the game mechanics to allow you to detonate fire explosions without requiring you to kill the opponent first with the detonating power. This appears to have brought with it an interesting change: Concussive Shot amplified with Incendiary Ammo can prime and then detonate its own fire explosions. As far as I know, this makes Concussive Shot the only power that detonate itself; all other explosions must be set up and detonated by different powers.

Amplified Concussive Shot with Warp Ammo:
Will Amplified Concussive Shot with Warp Ammo detonate biotic explosions? No.

Amplified Concussive Shot damage multipliers:
Information courtesy of Athenau from Concussive Shot Amplification gets multipliers against protections.

• By default, Concussive Shot already has a 4x damage multiplier against barriers (source). This multiplier also does not change when amplified with any other ammo power, including Warp Ammo; the damage multiplier remains at 4x against barriers. 
• Concussive Shot amplified with Warp Ammo gains a 4x damage multiplier against armor.
• Concussive Shot amplified with Incendiary Ammo gains a 4x damage multiplier against armor.
• Concussive Shot amplified with Disruptor Ammo gains a 4x damage multiplier against shields.

Modifié par RedCaesar97, 02 avril 2015 - 11:45 .

[RedCaesar97]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Erm, I am fairly certain that an amplified concussive shot will trigger TBs/FEs/CEs when the respective conditions are met, say hit a target that you had primed with shooting it with Disruptor ammo beforehand or kills a target that's frozen/on fire.

So yeah, the power is very much worth it.

Concussive shot on its own will detonate tech bursts, it does not need to be amplified with Disruptor Ammo. Same with detonating fire explosions or cryo explosions; Concussive Shot does not need to be amplified with an ammo power to detonate explosions.

[known_hero]

So, are you saying that Shredder is better? Isn't that just a damage evolution? If you want pure damage, you'd be better off with Carnage. Actually, Carnage is all around a better power than concussive shot. Amplification's tech bursting and overall CC capabilities outweighs the usefulness of Shredder's damage evolution.

From a MP perspective, CS should he the last thing you evolve. So, this question is irrelevant.

Sorry, I don't fully understand the context of your question.

[known_hero]

I didn't know CS detonates tech bursts on it's own. Maybe that's something you should think about putting in the OP

[WillBJ92]

Actually like OP said, concussive shot is great for crowd control. I find it especially useful on gold against Phantoms; making them jump and dodge all around, not giving them the possibility to attack, even with a rifle as heavy as the Saber. Carnage is too slow for that.

As for the original question, I've I've tried both upgrades a few times and I honestly prefer playing with the damage upgrade. Here are my reasons:

- You don't need to spend equipment for the upgrade to work. This is good for lower level games, where using ammo upgrades is almost useless.
- If you are using equipment, your normal shots already have the same effect as the amplified concussive shot. Since the power only uses a less than a second to use I'd rather just launch the shot and shoot while the enemy staggers. The only problem might be if you can't afford to get out of cover any longer.

The only disadvantage is that Geths and mechs aren't affected by the whole damage over time thing.

Though come to think of it, I haven't tried the amplification upgrade with higher level special ammo, If it makes any difference at all, that is. I've always played with level 2 ammo upgrade maximum when I used the amplification upgrade. Anyways, hope this helps.

[AVPen]

known_hero wrote...

So, are you saying that Shredder is better? Isn't that just a damage evolution? If you want pure damage, you'd be better off with Carnage. Actually, Carnage is all around a better power than concussive shot. Amplification's tech bursting and overall CC capabilities outweighs the usefulness of Shredder's damage evolution.

The Shredder evolution actually increases damage dealt to organic target/s by 100% for 10 seconds (meaning an organic enemy will take twice as much damage from a weapon/power for 10 seconds), in addition to increasing the force of CS by 50% (so it'll also knock back enemies further than before).

[vonSlash]

AVPen wrote...

known_hero wrote...

So, are you saying that Shredder is better? Isn't that just a damage evolution? If you want pure damage, you'd be better off with Carnage. Actually, Carnage is all around a better power than concussive shot. Amplification's tech bursting and overall CC capabilities outweighs the usefulness of Shredder's damage evolution.

The Shredder evolution actually increases damage dealt to organic target/s by 100% for 10 seconds (meaning an organic enemy will take twice as much damage from a weapon/power for 10 seconds), in addition to increasing the force of CS by 50% (so it'll also knock back enemies further than before).

Not sure where you got that idea from, but it's wrong. Shredder adds a DoT effect that does 10% of the total CS impact damage per second for 10 seconds to organic targets (total of 100% extra damage after the full 10 seconds).

Essentially, Shredder just doubles CS damage vs organics.


If you're playing MP, always go with Shredder, but in SP, I find Amplification to be a better choice, since Amplify will allow Concussive shot to deal bonus damage to armor and/or shields in addition to its innate bonus damage vs barriers (which is only effective against Banshees, since Phantoms dodge so often).

Modifié par vonSlash, 23 août 2012 - 05:28 .

[Quething]

vonSlash wrote...

If you're playing MP, always go with Shredder, but in SP, I find Amplification to be a better choice, since Amplify will allow Concussive shot to deal bonus damage to armor and/or shields in addition to its innate bonus damage vs barriers (which is only effective against Banshees, since Phantoms dodge so often).

Still not worth it. Load up lvl 6 Disruptor and Amp Conc, and hit a Geth Prime with it. Then hit it with Energy Drain 6 or a fully-buffed companion shield stripper from Garrus or EDI. The difference is pretty severe. Now try lvl 6 Inferno and Amp Conc vs lvl 6 Carnage. It's even more stark, even if you spec for overall damage instead of the +vs armor evolution. Hell, Amp Conc plus Warp Ammo still does less damage to barriers than a good Overload from Garrus. It's a crowd control power, not a damage power, and the only question at lvl 6 is "do I want a poor man's Cryo Blast, or a DoT that will stop shield regen on organics." If you didn't go for Area at 4 there's no point to Amp at all.

[AVPen]

vonSlash wrote...

AVPen wrote...

The Shredder evolution actually increases damage dealt to organic target/s by 100% for 10 seconds (meaning an organic enemy will take twice as much damage from a weapon/power for 10 seconds), in addition to increasing the force of CS by 50% (so it'll also knock back enemies further than before).

Not sure where you got that idea from, but it's wrong. Shredder adds a DoT effect that does 10% of the total CS impact damage per second for 10 seconds to organic targets (total of 100% extra damage after the full 10 seconds).

Essentially, Shredder just doubles CS damage vs organics.

Geez, then the writers really messed up the description  for the Shredder evolution, cause that's what it reads like the evolution does. 

Modifié par AVPen, 23 août 2012 - 06:27 .

[Abraham_uk]

Thanks for the heads up.

Concussive shot with cryo ammo looks amazing.
Concussive shot with disruptor looks amazing.
Concussive shot with incendiary blast seems okay.
Concussive shot with armour piercing ammo is dissapointing.
Biggest dissapointment is concussive shot with warp ammo. I was expecting warp! Warp is a lie!


Any more information on shredder concussive shot? Is it like ballistic blades WITHOUT the explosion evolution?

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 23 août 2012 - 07:25 .

[Abraham_uk]

Have they fixed the multiplayer issue with concussive shot amplification evolution yet?

Or is that power still broken?

[RedCaesar97]

Abraham_uk wrote...

Thanks for the heads up.

Concussive shot with cryo ammo looks amazing.
Concussive shot with disruptor looks amazing.
Concussive shot with incendiary blast seems okay.
Concussive shot with armour piercing ammo is dissapointing.
Biggest dissapointment is concussive shot with warp ammo. I was expecting warp! Warp is a lie!


Any more information on shredder concussive shot? Is it like ballistic blades WITHOUT the explosion evolution?

Disruptor is pointless on Amplified Concussive Shot since it does not prime tech bursts. I will try to record another video that clealy shows this. Using Concussive Shot to detonate tech bursts set by your Disruptor Ammo is amazing though.

Concussive Shot with Incendiary Exlosive Burst does not appear to actually burst. I think I need more testing to confirm.

Shredder Concussive Shot is a little like Ballistic Blades... minus the huge and noticeable damage. And you would need the Radius evolution to get the spread, and I am not even sure if Shredder works on the enemies affected by the Radius. With the Radius evolution, C-Shot will knock down the (unprotected) enemy it hits, but any other enemies affected by the Radius will only stagger.

[RedCaesar97]

known_hero wrote...

I didn't know CS detonates tech bursts on it's own. Maybe that's something you should think about putting in the OP

Done. Thank you for the suggestion

[Abraham_uk]

Does Amplified Concussive work on multiplayer, or is it still broken?

[RedCaesar97]

Added some tests to the original post:
- Another (better) test with Disruptor Ammo
- Another test with Incendiary using explosive burst
- A test comparing Incendiary Ammo with Damage versus Explosive Burst
- A test to see if Amplified C-Shot with Incendiary Ammo can set up fire explosions


Abraham_uk: I have no idea if Amplified Concussive Shot works in multiplayer as I have never used it. I may get a chance this weekend to try when I promote some classes.

Modifié par RedCaesar97, 25 août 2012 - 04:02 .

[capn233]

I wasn't on here yesterday (or the day before) so I am just reading this now.

I don't need to see the tests, but thank you for posting them.

First off, as Red demonstrated, you don't need amplification to set off a Tech Burst, Cryo Explosion or Fire Explosion. All tech based combos can be detonated with ANY direct damage power, which includes Carnage, Proxi Mine, any grenade, and nearly all biotics.

Onto amplification itself. Personally I think it depends on how you are using CS and which ammo power you are using. If you are running Cryo or Incendiary then I think it is worth it, and that is because of the instant CC value, not for increasing damage.

The way I use it in either case is to hit Adrenaline Rush, fire CS at one unprotected target, but fire the weapon at the next target. CS tracks fairly well and should score a hit on the first target with minimal aim time and an easy transition to the next target. Alternatively, you could spam CS out of ARush and potentially CC a little faster, but I find killing time is slower doing that.

If you are running any other ammo power it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to take Amplification, as the extra damage to whatever defenses or enemy types isn't anything to write home about.

[known_hero]

EDIT

OK, I now get what were trying to do.

Good stuff!

Modifié par known_hero, 25 août 2012 - 04:46 .

[RedCaesar97]

Abraham_uk:
I just tested Amplified Concussive Shot in multiplayer. I took Cryo Ammo and it did not freeze enemies.

[Abraham_uk]

This is a good thread.

Relix 28 has given RedCaesar97 a mentioning in her biotic and tech combos thread.

Check out my signature.

[capn233]

Amplified CS has never worked correctly in multiplayer. It's one of the oldest bugs now.

[Abraham_uk]

capn233 wrote...

Amplified CS has never worked correctly in multiplayer. It's one of the oldest bugs now.

Needs to be fixed!

[Shad Croly]

capn233 wrote...

Amplified CS has never worked correctly in multiplayer. It's one of the oldest bugs now.

I had a feeling that Concussive Shot was underperforming for some reason.

[Abraham_uk]

Okay, is the shredder evolution any good?

It still detonates tech bursts.
It makes enemies bleed.

[RedCaesar97]

Abraham_uk wrote...

Okay, is the shredder evolution any good?

It still detonates tech bursts.
It makes enemies bleed.

Since Amplification is not working in multiplayer, you will want to take Shredder *IF* you are plan on using it to detonate tech bursts. Otherwise, leave it rank 4 Radius.

The Shredder evolution is pitiful since Concussive Shot has poor damage. You can see it slowly drain health/shields, but unless the enemy is extremely low on health, it is unlikely that you will see it kill. Shredder does provide more force.

With enough force, Concussive Shot will cause a Guardian to stagger and move their to the side of their body, but you are better off using an Armor-Piercing mod.