329 réponses à ce sujet

[spotlessvoid]

garf wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Conflict is based on competition over resources, directly and indirectly. Additionally, these innate characteristics you ascribe to humans are based on lower brain function.

Neither problem is inherently unsolvable

nor is it automatically solved by everyone getting green glowy space circuitry... unless there's more to synthesis that a simple 'merger'.

not the point I was making

[garf]

spotlessvoid wrote...

garf wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Conflict is based on competition over resources, directly and indirectly. Additionally, these innate characteristics you ascribe to humans are based on lower brain function.

Neither problem is inherently unsolvable

nor is it automatically solved by everyone getting green glowy space circuitry... unless there's more to synthesis that a simple 'merger'.

not the point I was making

No? you weren't contesting the point that synthesis won't end conflict?

[CitizenThom]

True story: It's called the Catalyst because The Architect was already used by the W brothers.

Modifié par CitizenThom, 23 août 2012 - 10:49 .

[acidic-ph0]

People will never like him because the catalyst and the choices it presents are a literal Deus ex Machina. Which is the best way to ruin any story no matter how awesome it was up to that point.

Its that simple. People don't care about what the catalyst represents in the context of the game. In fact it would be a compliment to the writers if fans actually hated the catalyst as a well written villain. Instead he's hated from an out of context view, as an objectively poor story-telling device, for breaking our suspension of disbelief and immersion, and as being an insult to our intelligence.

[spotlessvoid]

Garf-no I wasn't

I was contesting that humanity forever remaining in a state of conflict is inevitable

Only ask why if you want s wall of text

Modifié par spotlessvoid, 23 août 2012 - 11:06 .

[RebelTitan428]

the catalyst is a poopdink

[garf]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Garf-no I wasn't

I was contesting that humanity forever remaining in a state of conflict is inevitable

Only ask why if you want s wall of text

I don't think we are in disagreement then. I thought you were countering those who pointed out that making everyone bio-synthetic would not end  conflict. those the point of doing so was .. questionable... at best.

If you weren't contesting that point (for which I am relieved since it seemed a weak effort at doing so) I don't think you and I have an issue

[D24O]

RebelTitan428 wrote...

the catalyst is a poopdink

[JShepppp]

garf wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Garf-no I wasn't

I was contesting that humanity forever remaining in a state of conflict is inevitable

Only ask why if you want s wall of text

I don't think we are in disagreement then. I thought you were countering those who pointed out that making everyone bio-synthetic would not end  conflict. those the point of doing so was .. questionable... at best.

If you weren't contesting that point (for which I am relieved since it seemed a weak effort at doing so) I don't think you and I have an issue

I think an easier way of thinking about is like a light switch with on/off with on = synthetic/organic peace and off = synthetic/organic conflict (not necessarily war, but rebellion, aka disobeying, war, etc.).

The light may currently be on/off. During the game, we see the light switch repeatedly turned on and off. At the time of the Catalyst, it may be on (geth/quarian peace) or off (geth or quarians wiped out).

All the Catalyst says is that, regardless of the current light status, the light switch will eventually turn off. 

The kind of statement it's making cannot be disproved or proven but it can be supported by what we see; it isn't disproven or unsupported by what we see. Basically, we see that the light switch has already been off and on. Thus ironically if we say that "it can never be off" we become the ones who seem a little close-minded. 

[Jadebaby]

I had a thought, but I'm going to drop it here. Because it's kind of on topic.

Do you think, that if the Catalyst is ever proven to be a clear-cut villian that is just devoid of logic and in future dlc we're able to rise up against him. That that would make him for one of the greatest villians in gaming history and possibly one of the greatest endings too?

I just think about this because it would add a whole psychological side to his evilness which is exactly what the Reapers pride themselves on. Being superior and manipulative.

Modifié par Jade8aby88, 24 août 2012 - 04:06 .

[AresKeith]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

I had a thought, but I'm going to drop it here. Because it's kind of on topic.

Do you think, that if the Catalyst is ever proven to be a clear-cut villian that is just devoid of logic and in future dlc we're able to rise up against him. That that would make him for one of the greatest villians in gaming history and possibly one of the greatest endings too?

I just think about this because it would add a whole psychological side to his evilness which is exactly what the Reapers pride themselves on. Being superior and manipulative.

Harbinger: "We are superior, they are Vermin"

[The Eruptionist]

LiarasShield wrote... 

Because he has been using the reapers to destroy our entire galaxy the entire time of mass effect 3 [...]  So it is extremely hard for shepard to even put up with the reapers leader let alone talk to it and pick one of its choices

Shepard trusted Vigil on Illos with no reason to do so other than that of necessity. Shepard also trusted the Illusive Man who had an established history of ruthlessness and sacrificing others to further his goals. He even outright lies to Shepard at one point (prior to the abandoned collector vessel mission) which shows he has a capacity for deceit. The Illusive Man also launches Shepard on a suicide mission when Shepard has numerous reasons to mistrust him (sound familiar?).

Shepard simply has to hope that TIM is telling the truth when he joins Cerberus - trust takes a back seat to necessity. If you're going to question why on Earth Shepard trusts the Catalyst and are then going to refuse to select one of the options based on a lack of trust then why did you play ME2 when the entire game was based on Shepard blindly 'trusting' the Illusive Man?

In this regard the Catalyst is to ME3 what TIM was to ME2.

Modifié par The Eruptionist, 24 août 2012 - 06:05 .

[Eterna]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

That's because with TAO it's not an argument. It's a "You're wrong, I'm right."

Nah. Usually she clearly states why. And that pisses off a lot of people who are not able to counter her logic. What then follows are rationalizations, diversions, or head canon, in an attempt to make their belief system more agreeable. That of course does not work.

No people get pissed when he spouts hypocrisy and headcannon as fact. Which is pretty much every synthesis conversation he has participated in.

Modifié par Eterna5, 24 août 2012 - 06:46 .

[008Zulu]

CitizenThom wrote...

True story: It's called the Catalyst because The Architect was already used by the W brothers.

Brother. One of them got a sex change. Larry is now Lana. How how disturbingly hilarious and full of schadenfreude if he changed his name to Lola instead.

[Calamity]

I dislike him because nobody in this cycle has asked for a "solution" to controversy. Some peace loving hippies a billion years ago wanted a solution to end all controversy yet they created the Catalyst that went on a murder spree in a never-ending "cycle" because of its twisted logic. At least in the controversies that we have seen, haven't created the mass extinctions of so many species as the Catalyst's solution.Let the "young ones" grow up, repeat mistakes and eventually learn from them,as some are already doing. That is the true evolution of a species.

The cycles only exist because he made them - the reapers return every 50,000 years. My Shep ends his cycles and his "solution" when she destroys the reapers (if this actually destroys them).

[xbb1024]

Re-post from another thread:

All explained by the Reaper code fragment Shepard recovered in Rannoch:

.....
public class WashingMachine extends Genocide {
.....
catalyst = new WashingMachine();
catalyst.startCycle();
.....

Damned auto-complete!

[megamacka]

Because his a completely random reaper AI put in in the last five minutes that you meet after magically levitating on a see through platform after falling unconscious then you magically wake up after five seconds and get this reaper AI lying in your face and you are supposed to believe in him. Herp derp, yes saren wanted to work together and create hybrids ( synthesis ) and the illusive man wanted control they both killed themselves herp derp I didn't bring vendetta from the cerby base and let him upload himself into the crucible herp derp I am commander shepard the senile spectre......

[Batnat]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

I had a thought, but I'm going to drop it here. Because it's kind of on topic.

Do you think, that if the Catalyst is ever proven to be a clear-cut villian that is just devoid of logic and in future dlc we're able to rise up against him. That that would make him for one of the greatest villians in gaming history and possibly one of the greatest endings too?

I just think about this because it would add a whole psychological side to his evilness which is exactly what the Reapers pride themselves on. Being superior and manipulative.

Diplomatic answer: Would depend on how it would be implemented.

Truthful answer: Personally I´d love it, because then I could perform my victory dance (which I´d have to invent first), screeching "I WAS RIGHT! I KNEW IT! I SOOO KNEW IT!!!"...or something similar...with lots of undefinable words and quite a few expletives thrown in for good measure.

Pick your poison. 

[Pitznik]

You're not supposed to be ok with it, you're supposed to get rid of it.

[Redbelle]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

I had a thought, but I'm going to drop it here. Because it's kind of on topic.

Do you think, that if the Catalyst is ever proven to be a clear-cut villian that is just devoid of logic and in future dlc we're able to rise up against him. That that would make him for one of the greatest villians in gaming history and possibly one of the greatest endings too?

I just think about this because it would add a whole psychological side to his evilness which is exactly what the Reapers pride themselves on. Being superior and manipulative.

Just having the chance to shoot him without it being game over would be the greatest, not greatest but immensly satisfying moment of this year.

But seriously, The cat comes forward with his 'context' and by the end we still have no idea who he is as a character..... I'm pretty sure ME revolves around who you talk to as well as what they have to say. The only clue as to who the Cat is when he lets his hair down is his freaky Reaper voice if you go reject.

Come out from behind the curtain wizard! I have a bullet with your name on it!

[LiarasShield]

It still makes no sense to me that you're going to follow through with the reapers terms or choices or ideals to have a chance at beating them the reapers could never be trusted before and all those who believed the reapers were good only ended up like those poor souls in arrival

Or how conflicted saren and the illusive man became over being controlled by the reapers they have always used cunning and manipulation to get what they want and all the destruction they have caused from the our cycle and the last one does not give any reason for us to believe the reaper collective

Again the reaper is taking on the form of a child the very thing shepard saw die in order to manipulate him or her into picking one of its three choices it could already be influencing his or her mind from either harbingers blast before teleporting up into the citadel or after he or she passed out near the control council

Agreeing with the reapers or siding with them in the last 10 or 15 minutes to me goes against everything we fought for against fighting them.

The Fact that the prothean beacon says that the catalyst is required just to power the crucible or activate its choices is more then not right since the reaper collective is needed just to use the damn thing.

Modifié par LiarasShield, 24 août 2012 - 12:25 .

[LiarasShield]

I guess it just something I will never understand

[Pitznik]

Redbelle wrote...

Just having the chance to shoot him without it being game over would be the greatest, not greatest but immensly satisfying moment of this year.

Uninstall EC.

[RinuCZ]

Because it presents a problem which isn't the problem in a first place and your protagonist is supposed to pick one of its designed solutions (post-Crucible or pre-Cruble, it doesn't matter). It's like saying that a man and a woman always think differently and have dispuses and the inbalance of such relationship is inevitable, so it has to be solved with vigour.

The very idea is absurd.

Modifié par RinuCZ, 24 août 2012 - 01:17 .