329 réponses à ce sujet

[LiarasShield]

JShepppp wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

Also another main reason why the catalyst is wrong because if the created will always rebel against their creators I should've never been able to unite the geth with quarians right but guess what I did lol

The catalyst is lore breaking for both the reapers and the idea that it believes in

and the Geth never even wanted to fight the Quarians, they did it in self-defense because they didn't want to die, which is also what any Organic would do

Exactly the catalyst is wrong about other synthetics and the reapers truely played a great role i the previous games as he did not he is out of place also

Since the catalyst resides in the citadel why didn't he open the citadel relay or the relay near our solar system to let the reapers come in for soverign wait for it because he never existed or was thought until me3 right?

Geth/Quarians support it. All the Catalyst says is that synthetics will eventually rebel. It never said how many times. One time is enough. Thus the Geth rebelled.

It also does not say that the synthetics will be the instigators of the rebellion, or that they are morally right or justified in doing so. Thus whoever STARTED the conflict is irrelevant. You will always have both synthetics and organics, and the Catalyst says that (somehow) the synthetics will rebel against the organics. 

The Catalyst opening the Citadel is a plothole that has been tried (rather unsuccessfully admittedly) to be explained. But that's a plothole that is SEPARATE from the Catalyst's logic. Thus you cannot call it "wrong" because of that. 

So I can not call it wrong because if it existed within the citadel it would've helped soverign?

I can not call it wrong because it has used the reapers to destroy the galaxy and burn my world and become a new main antagonist in the last 15 minutes when he has no exposition in the series earlyer on anywhere?

[Darth Asriel]

saracen16 wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

Also compromising with the enemy or doing what the enemy tells you to do really does destroy any meaning of achievement

And ending the cycle isn't an achievement? Is that emotion so important to you?

This is what gets me about some of you refusers: you sacrifice trillions of lives for the sake of pride, a totally archaic concept that has brought us more conflict and shame than it ever brought us anything good.

Sarcen16 in the last couple of days that I have grown fond of you. You are for the most part respectful and though we differ on our opinions it never devolves into childishness. 

Pride is the one thing a person should always maintain. Pride is like a sword, if it rusts it's useless. And if you don't control it, you will be cut by it. Refuse for my canon Shep is about standing in defiance until the very end. Letting the Reapers know that we value our freedom and self determination. And we will fight to our last breaths to defend it. No surrender. Not now, not ever. We will use every bomb, every bullet, every weapon down to our teeth to end them.(I love BSG) we live and die on our own terms not theirs. 

[AresKeith]

JShepppp wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

Also another main reason why the catalyst is wrong because if the created will always rebel against their creators I should've never been able to unite the geth with quarians right but guess what I did lol

The catalyst is lore breaking for both the reapers and the idea that it believes in

and the Geth never even wanted to fight the Quarians, they did it in self-defense because they didn't want to die, which is also what any Organic would do

Exactly the catalyst is wrong about other synthetics and the reapers truely played a great role i the previous games as he did not he is out of place also

Since the catalyst resides in the citadel why didn't he open the citadel relay or the relay near our solar system to let the reapers come in for soverign wait for it because he never existed or was thought until me3 right?

Geth/Quarians support it. All the Catalyst says is that synthetics will eventually rebel. It never said how many times. One time is enough. Thus the Geth rebelled.

It also does not say that the synthetics will be the instigators of the rebellion, or that they are morally right or justified in doing so. Thus whoever STARTED the conflict is irrelevant. You will always have both synthetics and organics, and the Catalyst says that (somehow) the synthetics will rebel against the organics. 

The Catalyst opening the Citadel is a plothole that has been tried (rather unsuccessfully admittedly) to be explained. But that's a plothole that is SEPARATE from the Catalyst's logic. Thus you cannot call it "wrong" because of that. 

But theres also the fact that the Geth even tried to rebuild parts of Rannoch because they hoped there would be peace between them and the Quarians in the future, because they never wanted to Kill them

[LiarasShield]

I'm still not quite getting how you can even take sides with the reaper leader at all lol

[The Angry One]

LiarasShield wrote...

I'm still not quite getting how you can even take sides with the reaper leader at all lol

Because they like to pretend it somehow isn't responsible for the atrocities, and/or it has nothing to do with the Crucible options. Even though it knows all about them, claims the Crucible "changed it" while calling it "little more than a power source", tried one of the options before and, oh yeah, has control over the Crucible.

[Xilizhra]

The Angry One wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

I'm still not quite getting how you can even take sides with the reaper leader at all lol

Because they like to pretend it somehow isn't responsible for the atrocities, and/or it has nothing to do with the Crucible options. Even though it knows all about them, claims the Crucible "changed it" while calling it "little more than a power source", tried one of the options before and, oh yeah, has control over the Crucible.

Personally, I don't believe that death is ever just. I believe there are two kinds of intentional deaths: murder and unfortunate necessity. There's no such thing as a glorious, deserved or justified death, in my own opinion.

[KENNY4753]

LiarasShield wrote...

I'm still not quite getting how you can even take sides with the reaper leader at all lol

That's why you can shoot it and leave!

[The Angry One]

Xilizhra wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

I'm still not quite getting how you can even take sides with the reaper leader at all lol

Because they like to pretend it somehow isn't responsible for the atrocities, and/or it has nothing to do with the Crucible options. Even though it knows all about them, claims the Crucible "changed it" while calling it "little more than a power source", tried one of the options before and, oh yeah, has control over the Crucible.

Personally, I don't believe that death is ever just. I believe there are two kinds of intentional deaths: murder and unfortunate necessity. There's no such thing as a glorious, deserved or justified death, in my own opinion.

Not sure what you're referring to. If you mean the Reapers themselves, it's the unfortunate consequence of them declaring us a resource to be harvested.
If the Reapers genuinely wanted peace, that'd be one thing. I'd be open to that, but the problem is the Reapers only offer peace if we change to suit them. That part is unacceptable, that's just capitulation. Changing ourselves so they can lord over us.

Now if they're total puppets and it's all the Catalyst's will, then they're basically puppets and you can no more kill them than you can kill an Xbox. Again if there was a way to preserve them without surrendering, yeah. Sure. But there isn't.

Modifié par The Angry One, 23 août 2012 - 03:50 .

[saracen16]

LiarasShield wrote...

Seems like alot of counter excuses

Spare me the insults. If you can't respond in a civil manner, better not to make a snide remark and belittle my argument. Have the guts to either put up or shut up.

The geth were slaves so they can't defend themselves but wait it is self defense not rebelling

Rebellion in the geth example is a form of self-defense: the quarians have been maintaining their dominance over the geth by executing them in the light of their new consciousness. The only proper course of action in their case was to rebel against their masters. It is exactly why the Free Syrian Army is fighting for the freedom of all Syrians: because Assad's regime is corrupt and has been intruding into the freedoms and liberties of the individual Syrians, so they rebelled.

and the reapers have alwaysed use their code or manipulation to use the geth or do you keep forgetting about soverign I guess you do

Yes, Sovereign was the one who coerced the geth into "defending themselves" against their oppressive quarian masters. If you played Mass Effect 2

you keep making a lot of excuses to justify the catalyst when none of them make much sense but that is ok I guess

An empty statement. Why don't you counter these "justifications" instead of throwing pot shots at them?

And FYI, there's a difference between justification and understanding why someone does something. I'm doing the latter, not the former. The world is not as black and white as you make it out to be.

[saracen16]

The Angry One wrote...

saracen16 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

inb4 "But teh Catalyst is flawed AI! I headcanoned that it's shackled to feel better about working with it and will now post this as fact!!!"

So, instead of responding to my post in that other thread, you decide to come here and attempt to stab my back.

I told you I won't respond to your incessant headcanon.
Either stick to the facts of the game or kindly be silent because we are all sick of you.

That was as much headcanon as yours, except mine is actually backed with proof in the game. Yours - "synthesis is indoctrination" - isn't.

But alas, honesty is refreshing to know that you are sick of me. Well, I'm sick of hypocrisy.

Modifié par saracen16, 23 août 2012 - 03:52 .

[The Angry One]

saracen16 wrote...

And FYI, there's a difference between justification and understanding why someone does something. I'm doing the latter, not the former. The world is not as black and white as you make it out to be.

You're not understanding anything. You're fabricating reasons.

saracen16 wrote...

That was as much headcanon as yours,
except mine is actually backed with proof in the game. Yours -
"synthesis is indoctrination" - isn't.

Your headcanon is backed up by nothing but assumptions.
My interpretation is backed up by the general weirdness of the synthesis ending. But you know the biggest difference? I say indoctrination is an interpretation. A possible explanation for the OOC behaviour already present.
You on the other hand claim your headcanon as fact and attempt to justify the Catalyst with it.

Modifié par The Angry One, 23 août 2012 - 03:53 .

[Xilizhra]

The Angry One wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

I'm still not quite getting how you can even take sides with the reaper leader at all lol

Because they like to pretend it somehow isn't responsible for the atrocities, and/or it has nothing to do with the Crucible options. Even though it knows all about them, claims the Crucible "changed it" while calling it "little more than a power source", tried one of the options before and, oh yeah, has control over the Crucible.

Personally, I don't believe that death is ever just. I believe there are two kinds of intentional deaths: murder and unfortunate necessity. There's no such thing as a glorious, deserved or justified death, in my own opinion.

Not sure what you're referring to. If you mean the Reapers themselves, it's the unfortunate consequence of them declaring us a resource to be harvested.
If the Reapers genuinely wanted peace, that'd be one thing. I'd be open to that, but the problem is the Reapers only offer peace if we change to suit them. That part is unacceptable, that's just capitulation. Changing ourselves so they can lord over us.

Now if they're total puppets and it's all the Catalyst's will, then they're basically puppets and you can no more kill them than you can kill an Xbox. Again if there was a way to preserve them without surrendering, yeah. Sure. But there isn't.

To me, it's not changing ourselves to suit them. This is a change I've wanted to see myself for years. If I were to choose Synthesis, I'd only do so because I already deemed something like it a good idea before the Catalyst presented its options.

Also, it seems as though they're puppets now, but become free during Synthesis. I spared the Architect for more or less the same reason.

[saracen16]

The Angry One wrote...

saracen16 wrote...

And FYI, there's a difference between justification and understanding why someone does something. I'm doing the latter, not the former. The world is not as black and white as you make it out to be.

You're not understanding anything. You're fabricating reasons.

Care to enlighten me, TAO, instead of insulting me?

[The Angry One]

Xilizhra wrote...

To me, it's not changing ourselves to suit them. This is a change I've wanted to see myself for years. If I were to choose Synthesis, I'd only do so because I already deemed something like it a good idea before the Catalyst presented its options.

Cybernetic augmentation is a good idea on an individual level. I would go for such a thing myself.
The problem is in forcing it upon everyone.

Also, it seems as though they're puppets now, but become free during Synthesis. I spared the Architect for more or less the same reason.

The difference is the Architect, while ruthless, wanted a chance to change the Darkspawn. Not to change us.
If the Architect stated that the only way to co-exist with the Darkspawn was to make everybody part Darkspawn would you agree?

[The Angry One]

saracen16 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

saracen16 wrote...

And FYI, there's a difference between justification and understanding why someone does something. I'm doing the latter, not the former. The world is not as black and white as you make it out to be.

You're not understanding anything. You're fabricating reasons.

Care to enlighten me, TAO, instead of insulting me?

Insults? I'm stating facts.
How many times have I explained it to you? The Catalyst being shackled is never indicated in the game. That's headcanon.
The organics being ready due to rules you have made up is also headcanon, and also doesn't account for the primitive socities that must also go through synthesis.

[saracen16]

The Angry One wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

I'm still not quite getting how you can even take sides with the reaper leader at all lol

Because they like to pretend it somehow isn't responsible for the atrocities, and/or it has nothing to do with the Crucible options. Even though it knows all about them, claims the Crucible "changed it" while calling it "little more than a power source", tried one of the options before and, oh yeah, has control over the Crucible.

You both have issues with arrogance and hypocrisy: you're putting words into our mouths and making up strawmen to claim your little "victories". PATHETIC. If you have something to say to us, say it to our faces instead of holding your noses up high.

And as for your post, your headcanon-ing again: the Catalyst does not have control over the Crucible. Shepard does.

But I learned that hypocrites tend to do what you do.

[The Angry One]

saracen16 wrote...


You both have issues with arrogance and hypocrisy: you're putting words into our mouths and making up strawmen to claim your little "victories". PATHETIC. If you have something to say to us, say it to our faces instead of holding your noses up high.

I had thought for a moment you wanted to debate reasonably. My mistake.

And as for your post, your headcanon-ing again: the Catalyst does not have control over the Crucible. Shepard does.

But I learned that hypocrites tend to do what you do.

Who turns off the Crucible in refuse?
Hint: It's not Shepard.

[AresKeith]

saracen16 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

I'm still not quite getting how you can even take sides with the reaper leader at all lol

Because they like to pretend it somehow isn't responsible for the atrocities, and/or it has nothing to do with the Crucible options. Even though it knows all about them, claims the Crucible "changed it" while calling it "little more than a power source", tried one of the options before and, oh yeah, has control over the Crucible.

You both have issues with arrogance and hypocrisy: you're putting words into our mouths and making up strawmen to claim your little "victories". PATHETIC. If you have something to say to us, say it to our faces instead of holding your noses up high.

And as for your post, your headcanon-ing again: the Catalyst does not have control over the Crucible. Shepard does.

But I learned that hypocrites tend to do what you do.

I like how when someone disagree's with you, you claim there insulting you, then you start calling people Pathetic, the only real hypocrite is you

the Starbrat does has control since he turns it off when you refuse, he only needs Shepard for Synthesis

[Baa Baa]

Synthesis Supporters + TAO in a thread creates pure chaos

[Chaotic-Fusion]

Shepard doesn't have control over the crucible. If he shoots the hologram starkid deactivates it.

[saracen16]

The Angry One wrote...

saracen16 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

saracen16 wrote...

And FYI, there's a difference between justification and understanding why someone does something. I'm doing the latter, not the former. The world is not as black and white as you make it out to be.

You're not understanding anything. You're fabricating reasons.

Care to enlighten me, TAO, instead of insulting me?

Insults? I'm stating facts.
How many times have I explained it to you? The Catalyst being shackled is never indicated in the game. That's headcanon.

Stop acting like a snob and pretending that I have to be lectured. "The Crucible changed me, created new possibilities, but I can't make them happen. If there is to be a new solution, you must act. The paths are open, but you have to choose." can be interpreted to be a shackle. If the Catalyst wanted to implement the solutions, it would have.

The organics being ready due to rules you have made up is also headcanon, and also doesn't account for the primitive socities that must also go through synthesis.

More strawmen, but I'll bite.

Rules I made up? LOL! Do you even read the Codices? The Catalyst states that we are ready for it, and my interpretation was based within the lore of the universe: many examples of people interfacing with technology to improve their lives such as biotic amps, haptic interface implants, and prostheses. "It is not something that can be forced", but it wasn't forced at all in any of these situations. As for the primitive societies, they have more to gain than to lose.

[Baronesa]

saracen16 wrote...
You both have issues with arrogance and hypocrisy: you're putting words into our mouths and making up strawmen to claim your little "victories". PATHETIC. If you have something to say to us, say it to our faces instead of holding your noses up high.

And as for your post, your headcanon-ing again: the Catalyst does not have control over the Crucible. Shepard does.

But I learned that hypocrites tend to do what you do.

oh... the irony... so strong...

This is like an Intelligent Design proponent calling evolution unscientific... priceless... really priceless

Modifié par Baronesa, 23 août 2012 - 04:02 .

[LiarasShield]

saracen16 wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

Seems like alot of counter excuses

Spare me the insults. If you can't respond in a civil manner, better not to make a snide remark and belittle my argument. Have the guts to either put up or shut up.

The geth were slaves so they can't defend themselves but wait it is self defense not rebelling

Rebellion in the geth example is a form of self-defense: the quarians have been maintaining their dominance over the geth by executing them in the light of their new consciousness. The only proper course of action in their case was to rebel against their masters. It is exactly why the Free Syrian Army is fighting for the freedom of all Syrians: because Assad's regime is corrupt and has been intruding into the freedoms and liberties of the individual Syrians, so they rebelled.

and the reapers have alwaysed use their code or manipulation to use the geth or do you keep forgetting about soverign I guess you do

Yes, Sovereign was the one who coerced the geth into "defending themselves" against their oppressive quarian masters. If you played Mass Effect 2

you keep making a lot of excuses to justify the catalyst when none of them make much sense but that is ok I guess

An empty statement. Why don't you counter these "justifications" instead of throwing pot shots at them?

And FYI, there's a difference between justification and understanding why someone does something. I'm doing the latter, not the former. The world is not as black and white as you make it out to be.

yet from a stand point the catalyst is still wrong because if synthetics would've destroyed all organics they would've done so already but that wasn't the case in the prothean cycle just like it isn't the case in ours unless you coinsider the half organic half synthetic reaper hybrids is what will cause the destruction of all organics

It still doesn't make sense that you side with the thing that has used the reapers to destroy the galaxy several times over and has caused the destruction of everything you love lol

Modifié par LiarasShield, 23 août 2012 - 04:04 .