181 réponses à ce sujet

[Ridwan]

Elhanan wrote...

M25105 wrote...

About the sales stuff, it's pretty simple. Did it make a profit or not?

You can point to numbers of units shipped and how much it made in combined sales, but if the profit isn't mentioned then it's anyone's guess.

And when you consider the huge marketing costs, development, hiring of A-list celebrity voice actors and all that.

200 million dollars made in sales, minus with God knows how much it cost to produce in the first place, the profit made probably isn't as much as we would like to believe.

Not that simple. As mentioned earlier, sales does not always equate to quality. While I have yet to play it fully, PS:T is hailed as a critical success, but was not a big seller initially. And the Pool of Radiance: RoMD game sold well initially, but also may have shipped with a drive wiping bug among other problems, I understand.

But good sales and good profits are positive indicators, esp for the investors.

It really IS that simple. Either you make a game that makes a ton of profit or you don't. EA's stock if anything, indicates that their games haven't been making a serious profit. Hell, they seem to barely just get by. Their flagship games weren't successful at all, when you compare them with their competition. Skyrim, WoW and Modern Warfare 3.

[Elhanan]

Based upon some previous info linked by others, EA has been climbing the past few years since '08, I believe.

[KDD-0063]

M25105 wrote...

It really IS that simple. Either you make a game that makes a ton of profit or you don't. EA's stock if anything, indicates that their games haven't been making a serious profit. Hell, they seem to barely just get by. Their flagship games weren't successful at all, when you compare them with their competition. Skyrim, WoW and Modern Warfare 3.

That is a pretty dangerous thought and one of the reasons why Bioware is in this pit now.
Popcap, after merging into EA, was recently hit with layoffs.

Strangely enough, one of the executives made excuses for EA saying that they would be hit with an even harder layoff if not for EA, in which he talked about the importance of maintaining as high profit as possible, which is EA's policy and is absolutely ridiculous.

Now of course SWTOR and DA2 are performing pretty badly because ... they are bad.
but if they do have better design, decision making and more work put into them, they wouldn't be able to win competition vs Skyrim and WoW.

If DA2 were really, really great, it would probably sell for 4mil to 6mil, which is not as high as Skyrim and probably wouldn't justify the increased cost in EA's mind. Skyrim's other competitor was Witcher 2, was that also unsuccessful in your book?

and if SWTOR were really, really great it will still take 5-6 years to knock WoW off its throne. That's the time it took wow to get there...and because of they hype and IP, TOR is doing better than TSW, Tera and Eve, but is TOR a better game? Hardly.

[RedArmyShogun]

No I think for some DA2 and ME3 was what did that.

Modifié par Confess-A-Bear, 27 août 2012 - 02:44 .

[KDD-0063]

Elhanan wrote...

Based upon some previous info linked by others, EA has been climbing the past few years since '08, I believe.

There was a clear drop in mid 2011, then climb up, then dropped in late 2011 ever since.
2008 was quite a long time ago. Dragon Age Origins wasn't even released, and EA only got its hand on Bioware at that time.

[Beocat]

hitorihanzo wrote...

I'm not done with BioWare. However, their games have gone from "automatic first day buy" to "Investigate Thoroughly."

For me, this is pretty much it and after the recent disappointments from them, they have also shifted over into my "buy used only" category.  I only buy new from developers and studios that I want to support, whether it is a new studio that's just starting out and has some glimmer of potential, or reinforcing the "attaboy!" for a studio that's been making great games to play for a long time.  In my eyes at least, Bioware has fallen far and sadly, they had managed to climb so high up before that I'm not even sure they've hit rock bottom yet.

[Zero132132]

I actually liked DA2, from a story perspective. Crap you did didn't matter worth ****, but I like the exploration of the issue of free will vs. safety of the general population.

[xxBabyMonkeyxx]

Elhanan wrote...

xxBabyMonkeyxx wrote...

Ok first off, why are you even responding to something you know nothing about? If you've never played ME3, you have no right to be even giving an opinion about the game. That's like saying " I know everything about science, but I've never studied science a day in my life". So therefore you're argument is invalid already. Second, I didn't hate DA2. However I thought it was a huge disappointment because I loved DAO and DA2 wasn't nearly as good. There were certain aspects I liked about DA2, the overall games was disappointing though. And third, I wasn't speaking on behalf of ever fan out there. I was simply giving an opinion. You're assuming way too much from reading one post. And I am optimistic about DA3, however if it's a disappointment like ME3 and DA2, I think it's safe to say that they don't want to stay with the distinct gaming experience they used to portray.

1 - Did not give an opinion on ME3 as a game, but on the endings which were watched on youtube. And reading reviews and critiques from others may yield a lot of information that is helpful for research and forming opinions. Proably how several gain intel on purchasing a new release in the first place.

2 - You mentioned that Bioware 'blew it' with DA2, I believe. Both sales figures and varied opinions seem to differ with that evaluation.

3 - For some reason, 'any fan' was the stand-out phrase in your previous statement, to which I disagreed.

I think this can explain where the coversation is going...

[Elhanan]

xxBabyMonkeyxx wrote...

I think this can explain where the coversation is going....

It is always a pleasure to see another original post on these forums, though I have severe doubts over the first two words of this clever reply....

[xxBabyMonkeyxx]

greengoron89 wrote...

Oh look, it's Elhanan poisoning the thread with his neurotic egotism again - what a surprise.

I don't think I could've put it better myself.

[Il Divo]

I'll probably give DA3 a shot, assuming that they get rid of DA2's terrible art style and it has a decent enough premise.

Edit: Also hoping for no multiplayer.

Modifié par Il Divo, 27 août 2012 - 09:04 .

[Volus Warlord]

Il Divo wrote...

I'll probably give DA3 a shot, assuming that they get rid of DA2's terrible art style and it has a decent enough premise.

Edit: Also hoping for no multiplayer.

Best give up hope now then.

[RedArmyShogun]

Wut you didn't like fighting the ICP in palce of the darkspawn? That was the best part of the game! I mean killing those rapping clowns.

[cJohnOne]

Since ME3 did well financially I don't see bioware being done for a long time. DragonAge fans on the other hand might get impatient if DA3 isn't any good. I personally love DragonAge so will keep buying no matter what. Even if they send DA4 off to Obsidian! Which might be a good thing!

[Korusus]

The mere fact that DA3 ISN'T releasing next month (aka 18 months after DA2), proves that BioWare is at least not completely ignoring the sinking ship around them. Dragon Age 3 isn't the last opportunity for BioWare to prove themselves to me (they've already lost me as a customer, TOR was my last BioWare purchase). To me DA3 is the last chance for BioWare to show who they really are as a company.

This is BIOWARE we're talking about here. Surely they feel they have something to prove with Dragon Age 3 right? Look at how arrogant BioWare was when DA2/ME3/TOR were all supposed to release in the same year. They have to have a bruised ego now knowing that nothing really turned out the way it was supposed to from those lofty ambitions.

If they can channel that hurt and backlash into something positive, I think Dragon Age 3 will be a good game and I will buy it. If they ignore the last 2 years and pretend none of it ever happened, if they refuse to admit (like some on this forum refuse to admit) that DA2 was a genuinely, honestly, honest-to-goodness BAD game....well then DA3 will be mediocre and BioWare will continue sinking.

Modifié par Korusus, 27 août 2012 - 11:48 .

[Gotholhorakh]

I wish them every success in what they're trying to achieve, but appealing to fans of their older games?

The organism that brought us Baldur's Gate 2, NWN and Dragon Age: Origins is a thing of the past, that skin was shed a while ago now and BioWare now has very little to do with that heritage in rationale or output.

I look forward to playing their kind of game when they have really honed it, I guess, but it looks like that will be kind of 90% cut scenes and 10% sub-fable action fun, with the odd social crusade thrown in for good measure no doubt.

There was a time when they would have railed against the TES way of doing things for the poor quality aspects that open world experience necessitates - areas where TES was weaksauce but BW was mighty.

Now, they are "taking inspiration" from it, when really the only reason TES games look so much better now, is that they kept trying hard at doing their own genre. DA:O made Oblivion look like a bit of joke. DA2 made Oblivion look like a towering classic. Skyrim now is somewhere in the stratosphere compared to DA2.

No, it looks like the best we will get, will be something like Kingdoms of Average, so it depends which older games you mean. If you mean BG, NWN, DA:O... not a chance.

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 28 août 2012 - 11:13 .

[Lady Lystra]

Do you think they would go the route of Final Fantasy?

[Whitering]

I already don't pay much attention to what Bioware is doing. I pre-ordered ME 3, because, ya, I was obviously going to play it, but there is no way in hell I am preordering any other game they do.

Here's the companies (non kickstarter) I will preorder from

Stardock and CDProjekt. That's it, and they don't give any incentives either, I just do it because I love those companies. I used to love Bioware

[Gatt9]

cJohnOne wrote...

Since ME3 did well financially I don't see bioware being done for a long time. DragonAge fans on the other hand might get impatient if DA3 isn't any good. I personally love DragonAge so will keep buying no matter what. Even if they send DA4 off to Obsidian! Which might be a good thing!

Actually,  EA's giving indications it's in desperate trouble.

-At the start of the year,  EA had ~1 billion cash on hand.

-EA spent an enourmous amount of money on ToR,  and obviously counted on enourmous revenue from ToR.  It's safe to say it's dead now.

-EA won the worst company of the year award,  and had an unprecedented backlash regarding ME3.  Making their future ability to market both the EA and Bioware brands questionable.

-EA had rumors about a sale to a Korean company.

-EA lost exclusive rights to two sports franchises.

-EA recently was rumored to be again attempting to sell the company in August.

-Today EA secured a 500 million dollar line of credit.

The last item is very key,  because that indicates that EA expects to lose money for the foreseeable future.  It looks like EA expects to be losing a large portion of their 1 Billion,  and they're trying to secure credit now,  because as future quarters complete,  they may have their credit downgraded and be unable to obtain such a large amount.

The popcap layoffs are another major deal, they paid nearly 1 Billion for them,  and it looks like they aren't getting the return on investment if they're laying off.

I'd argue that EA recognizes itself as unsustainable,  with a bleak future,  and the sales rumors indicate not only dropping revenues for the foreseeable future,  but that they also feel their brands are now toxic.

I believe the assumption that EA/Bioware is in good position is very tenative at best,  EA's current financial moves are telegraphing to me that they're expecting to lose alot of money.

This is BIOWARE we're talking about here. Surely they feel they have something to prove with Dragon Age 3 right? Look at how arrogant BioWare was when DA2/ME3/TOR were all supposed to release in the same year. They have to have a bruised ego now knowing that nothing really turned out the way it was supposed to from those lofty ambitions

Sadly,  this isn't Bioware.  This is EA.  Bioware was purchased by EA,  and is now a logo they apply to alot of their non-sports studios.  Even significant Bioware employees no longer work there,  and at least one left because of EA.

Though I would imagine there's alot of bruised egos,  but I'd guess those are from EA dictating design.

[Elhanan]

Being former military, I do not place too much credence into rumors, conjecture, polls, etc into my own opinions, as such has resulted in far less reliability in the final results. And as EA has sold 900k+ copies of Madden NFL 13 on the first day of release- a product I do not follow personally - I shall leave it to them to use the profits as they deem fit.

[Solivagant]

 Older fans circa Mass Effect 1 - Dragon Age: Origins or older fans circa Baldur's Gate? Cause a lot of those may have moved on by now.

[Gatt9]

Elhanan wrote...

Being former military, I do not place too much credence into rumors, conjecture, polls, etc into my own opinions, as such has resulted in far less reliability in the final results. And as EA has sold 900k+ copies of Madden NFL 13 on the first day of release- a product I do not follow personally - I shall leave it to them to use the profits as they deem fit.

You realize that makes absolutely no sense right?  There's no correlation between military service and what you want to discount as "Rumors, conjecture, polls,  etc". 

Which you then turned around,  and accepted rumors and conjecture from EA as fact.  There's no magic connection between EA's games and EA that lets them know when a copy is sold,  they don't have any idea how many copies were sold on the first day yet.  Further,  you ignored the fact that EA likes to use the words "Shipped" and "Sold" interchangeably,  and I'll bet alot of money the real press release said "Shipped 900k units",  because the gaming press always chooses to translate the word "Shipped" as "Sold".

So I'm a little fuzzy on why you're trying to discount verifiable events as "Rumors and conjecture" and then accept "Rumors and conjecture" if it has the letters EA in the sentence.

I'm also really confused why you'd bother trying to claim 900k as a positive when EA has already said Dead Space 3 isn't worth continuing if it doesn't sell 5 million.  Logically,  900k is abyssmal if 5 million is the required target.

Modifié par Gatt9, 01 septembre 2012 - 06:33 .

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

EA Sports games has always a large number of customers. Hockey, Football, Soccer, Basketball etc.
This branch of EA can keep EA alive.