211 réponses à ce sujet

[Vicious]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

On topic: Bashing religion on the internet is cool. Look at Digg. Look at Slashdot. That there was a religious character in a video game was a fantastic move by BioWare.

What he said. As to how someone can take a videogame character so seriously I have no idea. rofl

[Ulicus]

Sialater wrote...
I don't agree.

It isn't a matter of opinion to say that Ashley compared the non-human races to dogs when she didn't. Sorry.

As for post-Virmire: You can convince her to adopt a more optimistic view of the Council, by which she no longer assumes that the Council will use humanity as "a dog" against "the bear", before Virmire.

Modifié par Ulicus, 23 décembre 2009 - 03:43 .

[Maconbar]

Vicious wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

On topic: Bashing religion on the internet is cool. Look at Digg. Look at Slashdot. That there was a religious character in a video game was a fantastic move by BioWare.

What he said. As to how someone can take a videogame character so seriously I have no idea. rofl

Have you ever seen the theorycrafting and scrutiny that fictional works such as A Song of Ice and Fire, LOTR, WOT, and Harry Potter get? Or the discussions about TV series?

[Kohaku]

Vicious wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

On topic: Bashing religion on the internet is cool. Look at Digg. Look at Slashdot. That there was a religious character in a video game was a fantastic move by BioWare.

What he said. As to how someone can take a videogame character so seriously I have no idea. rofl

It's just something people do. If not there wouldn't be so many forums.

[Ulicus]

I take characters seriously as characters. It's fun. If you can't take them seriously as what they are, what's the point?

[Squiggles1334]

Maconbar wrote...

Vicious wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

On topic: Bashing religion on the internet is cool. Look at Digg. Look at Slashdot. That there was a religious character in a video game was a fantastic move by BioWare.

What he said. As to how someone can take a videogame character so seriously I have no idea. rofl

Have you ever seen the theorycrafting and scrutiny that fictional works such as A Song of Ice and Fire, LOTR, WOT, and Harry Potter get? Or the discussions about TV series?

The Simpsons And Philosophy: The D'oh! Of Homer

[Sialater]

Ulicus wrote...

Sialater wrote...
I don't agree.

It isn't a matter of opinion to say that Ashley compared the non-human races to dogs when she didn't. Sorry.

As for post-Virmire: You can convince her to adopt a more optimistic view of the Council, by which she no longer assumes that the Council will use humanity as "a dog" against "the bear", before Virmire.

It is a matter of interpretation.  I don't agree with your interpretation.


And no, I've never taken her past Virmire since I've always romanced Kaiden.  So I've never changed her mind.  Perhaps your interpretation is reflective of your post Virmire conversation?

[Yxiomel]

I would assume that part of the issue is that people with polarised real-life views may feel those views valid in the context of ME, whereas in Thedas (not Earth) such views are no longer valid, and the world must be accepted on its own terms. The Maker could very well be real, a lot of the mythos surrounding it seems to be (you can see the Black City from inside the Fade for example).

[Taleroth]

Oh, THAT Ash Williams. I totally thought this thread was about another guy.

As for the chick nice lady in Mass Effect.  She was prejudiced against aliens, she was confrontational about her belief in god (but then again, she had a giant chip on her shoulder), and I hate poetry.  It's hard for me to like her.

Leliana's not confrontational about her belief in god.  Ashley would say basically "I believe in god, you got a problem with that?!"  Leliana, on the other hand, is just "oh, I love the maker, he's so wonderful" so that she's not forcing you into a guilt trip for thinking she's nuts.

Modifié par Taleroth, 23 décembre 2009 - 04:20 .

[Medhia Nox]

Concerning Ashley, I found it refeshing to see a character that simply stated that she believed in God and an afterlife.. but didn't mention it every five seconds.



I think it was somewhat dissapointing that the religious person also turned out to be the racist, but I can't say there aren't real life examples of this connection (I also can't say whether it was intended to be connected.)



---



Lielana I like for entirely different reasons. She isn't just some "Bible Thumper".. she's John the Baptist.. she's Joan of Arc. She's the "Mad Prophet" personality that believes so completely in her faith that it even offends the average follower. And yet, you can't help but wonder if she's right...



I mean, the Maker "did" tell her where to find you. By the end of the game she "has" helped you defeat the Darkspawn. Yes, all orchestrated by "the Makers" of the game.. but the principle is sound.



---



I dislike Sci-Fi that doesn't have an element of "the Spiritual".



I dislike Fantasy that doesn't have an element of "the Factual". ((The old addage "It's magic!" ))

[syllogi]

Taleroth wrote...

Oh, THAT Ash Williams. I totally thought this thread was about another guy.

I'm pretty sure that Ash could take Leliana in a duel.  Chainsaws own bows and arrows, IMO.

[mb1713]

Sialater wrote...

Ulicus wrote...

Sialater wrote...
I don't agree.

It isn't a matter of opinion to say that Ashley compared the non-human races to dogs when she didn't. Sorry.

As for post-Virmire: You can convince her to adopt a more optimistic view of the Council, by which she no longer assumes that the Council will use humanity as "a dog" against "the bear", before Virmire.

It is a matter of interpretation.  I don't agree with your interpretation.


And no, I've never taken her past Virmire since I've always romanced Kaiden.  So I've never changed her mind.  Perhaps your interpretation is reflective of your post Virmire conversation?

Remember the Krogan? The Council thought nothing of picking them up from some toxic backward planet and using them to commit genocide against the Racchi. And what happened afterwards, when the Korgan got to big for thier britches'? They found another stray (Turians) and sic'ed them on the Krogan to commit yet another genocide for them.

So history shows that the Council is willing to let other species do the grunt and dirty work for them,and combine that with the general dislike of humanity by the Turains, and you have an even greater chance that Humanity will be the council's next "dog".

Also, look at from the view of current politics. Who are the new comers to the galactic stage? Humanity.
Who are the current political powerhouse? The Council.

Based on the current power levels, there is no way Humanity can order the Council to attack their enemy.. look, the Ambassador couldn't even get them to deal with the Geth after they blatantly attacked a human colony in Citadel space.

So not only does history prove Ashley's analogy correct, but the current politial structure shows that Humanity can not be the "master" in the analogy.

[axdorffe]

do you guys think we will see a subject zero morrigan analagy soon?

[axdorffe]

i mean comparison lol

[Original182]

Hey folks, off topic. Should I get Mass Effect 1? Because I thought I saw it on offer on either Steam or Impulse.

Modifié par Original182, 23 décembre 2009 - 04:48 .

[Deathstyk85]

Ulicus wrote...

Sialater wrote...

I didn't hate Ashley because of her religious views. I hated her because she compared sentient intelligent lifeforms well more advanced than humans to DOGS.

No, she didn't. In the frequently misunderstood "as much as you love your dog, it isn't human" analogy, she compared the Council races to the "human master" and humanity to the "dog" that they'd be willing to sacrifice.

no yeah this is how i heard it to, like from the beginning, shes talking about the councils willingness to sacrifice the humans.

[Kohaku]

axdorffe wrote...

do you guys think we will see a subject zero morrigan analagy soon?

I'm not sure what to think about her. I watched her character video and just knew she wasn't going to have a place in my party. When January comes I might change my mind but who knows.

[DPSSOC]

Original182 wrote...

Hey folks, off topic. Should I get Mass Effect 1? Because I thought I saw it on offer on either Steam or Impulse.

Yes.  However I'm biased as I love that game and am salivating over the sequel.

[Sialater]

mb1713 wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Ulicus wrote...

Sialater wrote...
I don't agree.

It isn't a matter of opinion to say that Ashley compared the non-human races to dogs when she didn't. Sorry.

As for post-Virmire: You can convince her to adopt a more optimistic view of the Council, by which she no longer assumes that the Council will use humanity as "a dog" against "the bear", before Virmire.

It is a matter of interpretation.  I don't agree with your interpretation.


And no, I've never taken her past Virmire since I've always romanced Kaiden.  So I've never changed her mind.  Perhaps your interpretation is reflective of your post Virmire conversation?

Remember the Krogan? The Council thought nothing of picking them up from some toxic backward planet and using them to commit genocide against the Racchi. And what happened afterwards, when the Korgan got to big for thier britches'? They found another stray (Turians) and sic'ed them on the Krogan to commit yet another genocide for them.

So history shows that the Council is willing to let other species do the grunt and dirty work for them,and combine that with the general dislike of humanity by the Turains, and you have an even greater chance that Humanity will be the council's next "dog".

Also, look at from the view of current politics. Who are the new comers to the galactic stage? Humanity.
Who are the current political powerhouse? The Council.

Based on the current power levels, there is no way Humanity can order the Council to attack their enemy.. look, the Ambassador couldn't even get them to deal with the Geth after they blatantly attacked a human colony in Citadel space.

So not only does history prove Ashley's analogy correct, but the current politial structure shows that Humanity can not be the "master" in the analogy.

I agree that it can be interpreted as such, I just don't think she meant it as such, therefore I don't interpret her analogy as meaning the humans are the dog.  Just because she quotes Ulysses, doesn't mean she knows what it means.

[Taleroth]

Even if everyone is out to get you, sometimes it still is paranoia.

[Endurium]

The "Maker" in Thedas doesn't impress me at all, but then he's just another invented god so can't expect much. Thus I don't care if party members believe in him; after all he's probably very real. I just don't care *shrug*. If anything bothers me about Leliana, it is her penchant for talking. A lot. Many of her chats with other party members boil down to them saying a few words, and her speaking 75% of the time. Somewhat annoying.

Her beliefs aren't a problem for me. If Mass Effect's DRM is ever removed so I can buy a copy and play it, I'll probably accept Ashley the same way. Is she a hypocrite, racist? So what? We have plenty of "religious" people on Earth doing various evil things in the name of their god. So what, if a video game character does the same? Imagine...

Modifié par Endurium, 23 décembre 2009 - 05:03 .

[enderandrew]

Williams is a soldier who fought against other races to protect Humanity. It is the nature of a soldier who was seen combat to distrust those they fought against.

[SarEnyaDor]

I never went to the ME forums... that being said I was luke-warm at best/worst with Ashley. I'm straight, didn't play a male character, and ended up sending her to get nuked. LOL

Lelianna I like as a rogue, she can actually open locks and disarm traps unlike some other rogues I meet along the way *cough* Zevran! *cough* but she annoys me because she is bugged and you can not be nice to her at all without you thinking you want some lesbo-action, no matter how many times you use the friend line.

Didn't have that problem with Ashley!!

Modifié par SarEnyaDor, 23 décembre 2009 - 05:28 .

[Spazmodian]

Ashley Williams was a horrible character because it wasn't believable given her attitude and rank. She was a senior non-commissioned officer who was whiny and publicly argumentative with her commander.