211 réponses à ce sujet

[phordicus]

Krigwin wrote...

bravo.  agree with everything.  except the lesbian thing.  different hardware configuration.

[TypoPanther]

The Angry One wrote...

Yeah, Ashley is a bit arrogant. But then, most of the humans in ME are.
Udina's an arrogant pig. But then he's supposed to be. However, so is Anderson. Hell, so is Shepard, Paragon or Renegade. The entire plot is full of human hubris.

And would people play it otherwise I wonder? A game where humanity isn't the ultimate focus? Perish at the thought..

[IronVanguard]

... Ashley was racist?

I must have missed this. Dang.

[The Angry One]

SnakeStrike8 wrote...

Frankly, I'm more surprised that no-one called the humans up on that.

Well since they weren't part of the Council, they had no obligation to support the Citadel fleet at all so they in fact could legally hide in Arcturus all day.
Ironically had the humans got what they wanted prior to that attack, they'd have a large part of their fleet at the Citadel to be smushed by Sovereign in the initial attack.

[The Angry One]

TypoPanther wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Yeah, Ashley is a bit arrogant. But then, most of the humans in ME are.
Udina's an arrogant pig. But then he's supposed to be. However, so is Anderson. Hell, so is Shepard, Paragon or Renegade. The entire plot is full of human hubris.

And would people play it otherwise I wonder? A game where humanity isn't the ultimate focus? Perish at the thought..

Why not? Maybe humans aren't the ultimate saviors of the universem ever consider that?

[menasure]

The Angry One wrote...
...
Why not? Maybe humans aren't the ultimate saviors of the universem ever consider that?

reminds me about the science section in the Spore forum where humans were compared to virusses who destroy the ecology of planets, many agreed with the idea

[TheDrunkenPanda]

The Angry One wrote...

TypoPanther wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Yeah, Ashley is a bit arrogant. But then, most of the humans in ME are.
Udina's an arrogant pig. But then he's supposed to be. However, so is Anderson. Hell, so is Shepard, Paragon or Renegade. The entire plot is full of human hubris.

And would people play it otherwise I wonder? A game where humanity isn't the ultimate focus? Perish at the thought..

Why not? Maybe humans aren't the ultimate saviors of the universem ever consider that?

The Immortal Emperor would have words with you, heretic.

Oh, wait, wrong universe.

Regarding ME cap ship weapons, if I recall correctly, the ships in ME all used mass accelerators to lob gigantic slugs at enemy ship's broadside.

http://masseffect.wi...es#Space_Combat

Anyway, I don't know why people come off as seeing Ash or Leliana as 'religious fanatics', they never struck me as that. Religious individuals, sure, but 'fanatic' implies a certain...fanatisicism, which I do not see in either, 'cause, in my play throughs, I do not recall either trying to convert my character. Sure, Leliana did have that whole conversation with Morrigan, but that one always struck me as the sort of conversation where you could subsitute 'Maker' with, oh, I don't know, 'Elephant-shaped Space Aliens' or 'Homocidal Cybernetic Robots from Planet X'.

....what were we talking about, again?

[Xandurpein]

I'm beginning to think that one real reason so many people disliked Ashley, is because she is portrayed as a soldier and many people have issues with the military as such. She is a soldier and hence gets tagged with a whole load of crap of pre-conceptions some people have about soldiers and the military.

I for one cannot for the life of me see where people get the idea that she is supposed to be a racist xenophobic simpleton just by looking at her conversations. The idea that I would defend her (or Leliana) because of their religion is stupid. I am a convinced atheist myself. I just happen to think that as long as people keep their faith as a private thing (like Ashley did) I have no real problem with it.

I would go so far as to say that despite (or because) of the fact that Ashley is a soldier, she is in my mind one of the closest things to a believably ordinary person Bioware has given us as romanceable companion. No voluptous witch, no girlish master assassin or alien mind reader, just an ordinary person with a strong sense of duty. I liked that a lot.

Modifié par Xandurpein, 25 décembre 2009 - 01:14 .

[The Angry One]

Well Ashley's a marine, and so is Shepard. I don't think that's the issue unless there's a lot of self-loathing going on.

[ReubenLiew]

There are no atheists in a foxhole.

I don't particularly mind that she's religious, most soldiers tend to be. It's natural to want to believe that there is something waiting for you at the end of that brass tip exploding inside you when you go to that goldplated barracks in the sky. I didn't even notice that she mentioned that she believed in God, not like it would make a difference, if I hated her for that I'd hate near 90% of the world for believing in a form of God.

What I DON'T like about her is she keeps questioning me about my alien comrades. Screw you woman, they, unlike you, provide awesome biotic and engineering powers. I can provide the pew pew for myself thank you very muchly.

[Xandurpein]

ReubenLiew wrote...

There are no atheists in a foxhole.

Very true.

What I DON'T like about her is she keeps questioning me about my alien comrades. Screw you woman, they, unlike you, provide awesome biotic and engineering powers. I can provide the pew pew for myself thank you very muchly.

She is concerned by military security. They are not just alien comrades, they are people from different nations, that could be interested in stealing the latest human hi-tech inventions. That she raises the question is in my mind perfectly normal and a reasonable thing to do for any concientous officer. She does not make an issue of it though, just alert you to the percieved danger. You can defend your alien crewmen and it won't even break the romance, unless you are rude about it. I know enough of how different nations on Earth today try to steal military technology from each other to know that Ashley's reactions does not have to signify any xenophobia or racism.

The one time that she was out of line was with Liara, but then she was jealous so I put it down to that. I really liked Tali a lot, but come on. Have an alien from a different interstellar nation poke around your secret super-hi-tech drive core, when she herself confessed that she need to bring something valuable back home to be accepted. Is it so bad for Ashley to even bring up the notion that maybe this wasn't such a bright idea...

[ReubenLiew]

I don't particularly care how logical her reasons, no matter how logical in-game.

I'm not about to give up the chance of giving up recruitable npcs! Who does she think she is, the PC?

[Herr Uhl]

ReubenLiew wrote...
I'm not about to give up the chance of giving up recruitable npcs! Who does she think she is, the PC?

The arrogance!

[ReubenLiew]

I know!!

Thats why I had her sacrifice herself. The woman was really only useful as a meat shield anyway.

[Herr Uhl]

She performed her job of dying jolly good though.



Good show I say.

[ReubenLiew]

Indeed. *smokes pipe* Bully on her, I say, old chap, bully on her.

[The Angry One]

Xandurpein wrote...

ReubenLiew wrote...

There are no atheists in a foxhole.

Very true.

I'm somewhat baffled that people think "I don't wanna die, please don't let me die!" equates to belief in God.
There have been atheists in foxholes, just as there are religious people who live long, dull lives in the suburbs.

As for Ashley criticising alien party members. Well, it's not her fault that 99% of the Normandy crew consist of useless wall decorations who stand around and salute all day like they were those guards with the stupid hats at Buckingham Palace.

[ReubenLiew]

I don't know. Have you interviewed many people in foxholes?

It's not so much a belief in God or turned to religion just like that.

It's more like the threat of death, you start praying.

Hard to pray to chance.

[The Angry One]

ReubenLiew wrote...

I don't know. Have you interviewed many people in foxholes?
It's not so much a belief in God or turned to religion just like that.
It's more like the threat of death, you start praying.
Hard to pray to chance.

Well have you? Sure, some people will pray. Some people won't.
Some people merely accept the inevitability of death, afterlife or not. 

[ReubenLiew]

Seems to be lots of accounts through memoirs concerning soldiers who start praying really hard during shellings even though they weren't particularly religious.

I find it hard to believe people can accept the inevitability of death when the vast majority of soldiers are young men and women in the service. Unless they're hopped up on drugs or zealots, in which case the latter is already religious in some form.

[Xandurpein]

The Angry One wrote...

ReubenLiew wrote...

I don't know. Have you interviewed many people in foxholes?
It's not so much a belief in God or turned to religion just like that.
It's more like the threat of death, you start praying.
Hard to pray to chance.

Well have you? Sure, some people will pray. Some people won't.
Some people merely accept the inevitability of death, afterlife or not. 

I HAVE talked to people who have been shot at. more than one of them agreed that they prayed to god, when the fire started. I suppose would not really claim that ALL do, nor that those I talk to represent a statistically significant number of people. So maybe the saying was a bit sweeping, but a lot of people who normally don't belive in a higher being of some sort, suddenly pray in extreme situations in combat.

For what it's I do not THINK i would myself in the same situation, but then again I have the luxury of ignorance in this question. Regardless I would never assume to judge how people react to a situation like that.

[Xandurpein]

Anyway, I'll pick Ashley's soldierly manners over Liara's little girl swooning anyday, even if it was Ashley that had the blue tentacle hair..

[Squiggles1334]

I always chose Ashley over Liara, myself. It's not that I have anything against Liara, she's a swell individual. It's just that she comes across as so socially and emotionally stunted, I'd feel like my Shepard was trying to flirt with a 12 year old. Is that supposed to be a part of her charm?

Modifié par Squiggles1334, 25 décembre 2009 - 05:12 .

[Chairchucker]

With regards to Ashley, I never really saw her as being xenophobic, as such. I saw her animosity towards certain alien races as comparable to the animosity held by Irish, Scottish and Welsh people towards British people; that is it say, motivated by the memory of being invaded, enslaved and slaughtered for the previous couple of centuries.

[Xandurpein]

Squiggles1334 wrote...

I always chose Ashley over Liara, myself. It's not that I have anything against Liara, she's a swell individual. It's just that she comes across as so socially and emotionally stunted, I'd feel like my Shepard was trying to flirt with a 12 year old. Is that supposed to be a part of her charm?

Pretty much what I feel too. I think I'm a bit too old for Liara's brand of charm. I never could make myself go ahead with Aeries romance in BG2 either...

Modifié par Xandurpein, 25 décembre 2009 - 06:01 .