49 réponses à ce sujet

[Das Tentakel]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Das Tentakel wrote...

As for plate armour, I think we have to abandon all hope of a somewhat sensible approach when it comes to armour design on BioWare's part.
That way lies madness and despair, I am afraid

(though we still can hope for a nice surprise, of course)

I think you're right.  It'll be spikey, red & black plate armor.

Red & black is okay, wouldn't mind even more colour.

But I sort of fear this:



There seems to be a tendency towards 'sexing up' women in BioWare games lately, so I wouldn't be surprised if the trend continues and culminates in something like this.

:OYou know what, sign me up!







(just kidding, of course) :innocent:

Modifié par Das Tentakel, 24 août 2012 - 04:38 .

[Jademoon121]

Very ornate and possibly of dwarven make or dwarven-inspired since the Imperium had long dealings with Orzammar.

[Lurklen]

Pretty much everything from Das Tentakel's post I love that stuff. It has all the pomp and self importantness of the Tevinter and somehow the guys wearing it are still intimidating despite looking like some kind of art installation. Those winged Hussars were hard as nails too.

Modifié par Lurklen, 24 août 2012 - 08:48 .

[levi.porphyrogenitus]

I've always seen the Tevinters as very medieval Roman (Byzantine) in style, especially given the rather obvious influences from that source, from the Imperial Chantry to the ongoing war with the Qunari, from the wealthy and famous capital city to the ruins and lost territories currently ruled by barbarians.

Modifié par levi.porphyrogenitus, 24 août 2012 - 10:25 .

[Iakus]

I also imagined them as having a sort of Roman or Byzantine look. Although that could be because I always associated the Tevinter Imperium with the Roman Empire.

[Sejborg]

I'm thinking something like this, but with a dark blue color instead of the red.

Modifié par Sejborg, 25 août 2012 - 12:21 .

[deuce985]

[Anvos]

Well, first of all I'd say Tevintar, Orlais, and the Qunari are likely the only nations with full on professional armies.
 
Seeing how Tevintar is the Rome of thedas I've pictured them like this
 
Slaves~ Cloth or Basic Leather Armor, wielding a basic short sword, small buckler, javelins. Their main purpose in battle would be to be sent out in front of the main army where they can’t try and retreat and be used to probe the enemy the enemy lines and be used to sap any traps the enemy has set up.
 
Conscript and Militia~ Basically what we’ve seen of tevintar units thus far medium level metal armor with round shields and a single handed weapon. Like the redcliff soldiers their probably allowed to use better equipment if they can afford it. When with a full army I suspect they are used to protect the flank and reinforce the professional soldiers where needed.
 
Archers~ I’d say a mix of your basic light armored conscript and militia who work mostly on volley fire and small units of special sniper like units in enchanted light armor that are mages who have been taught to focus on using magic to augment their aim and giving their arrows effect instead of casting spells.
 
Templar~ Freed from the chantry and now under state and mage control I’m guessing their part of the army as well. As for their armor I’d say a hybrid between the andrastian templar armor and the juggernaut plate armor. Also I’d say for differentiation their armor would be black with purple trim and the sword would be inverted and the flames replaced by four pointed stars. As for their role I’d say they are both the guardians of the mage units and focus on long range annulment and silencing of enemy mage or fade based units.
 
Mages~ Seeing how senators and magister lords would be more akin to hero units and commanders rather than main units my guess is it mostly average magisters who are given direct assignments to army units. Unlike the rest of thedas since mages are more numerous in tevintar and haven’t been barred from learning how to effectively fight my guess is there is a few integrated into every unit.  First they focus on aoe effects to weaken large formations and then got to your regular combat magic and healing. As for equipment I’d say it varies based on each mage, but the average state issued robe is probably slightly flowing with base blue with silver and purple trim. As for weapons I’d say more ornate staffs than other nations where they have special mechanisms that will either extend a spear, blade, axe, or scythe for if they get engaged in melee. Also since Tevintar is a mage tradition nation I would say introduce a secondary type of mage “weapon” called channeling gloves that are used more by healers and support mages.
 
Professional Soldiers~ I’d say based around the roman legionaries and look like something similar, where all their armor and weapons and finely crafted and contain a degree of enchantment. (Personally I’ve thought of them like the Praetorian or Urban Cohorts from Rome Total War) Also I’d say as Orlais becomes weakened by the mage templar war and orleasian civil war Tevintar is bring back the power of the old imperium and the legions have become universally spirit warriors who are bound with a mix of fade spirits and the higher order demons that function as a partnership/friends. They likely function as the backbone of the army. Along with that given the pride of tevintar I’d also expect their units to come with their own version of the roman golden eagle bearer, likely a silver or gold dragon instead.
 
Cavalry~ Seeing how tevintar is a magic based nation my guess is they use small numbers of elite arcane warrior esque mage knights on heavily armored steeds that make up for their lack of numbers by including summons, constructs, and lesser demons to make up for their lack of numbers.
 
Siege Weapons~ My guess is the same siege weaponry as other andrastian nations but with magic augmentations such as ballistae that can function in wet weather. Also I’m gonna say tevintar also has use of cannons.
 
Navy~ Likely well crafted top of the line ships that can only be produced with a precision and quality only magic construction can give. They probably focus mostly on mages who use tempest type magic. Also potentially cannons have been augmented into their frigates and heaviest ships.
 
Explanations
1. Spirit Warrior Legionaries
 
Fenris has too many similarities to spirit warrior for it to be a coincidence and a failed merger with a demon would make a better reason for why he lost his memory than it just being the pain of lyrium tattoo application. Also would explain the anger, murderous nature, and emotional coldness Fenris has as being a leftover imprint from a fade demon.
 
As for why tevintar would have good relations with fade demons that would be due to a history of blood magic allowing them to know how to appropriately interact and form deals and relationships with demons. Plus the fact that tevintar is the only nation with a track record of attempting to undue abominations suggests they know something about demons and how they merge with humans that the other nations don’t.
 
Also there is this more theory of mine that the Ancient High Dragons have a very strong fade connection that is strong enough for them to lay claim to their own section of the fade and as a result they would gain a following of weaker and younger demons who seek them out for protection. This would explain how the archdemons are connected to all darkspawn and able to command them over long distances, why the darkspawn are drawn towards the lair of ancient high dragons, why demons keep showing up near the horde, and why wardens can feel and interpret the call more in their sleep. Plus it provides an explanation for how Dumat’s altar still works when as far as we know Dumat was the first Ancient High Dragon to be blighted and slain as though Dumat may be gone the demons and spirits that paid homage to her (I think it’s a her though I’ve got my doubts that the people of the andrastian nations are correct in saying only females grow that big and powerful) would still likely occupy that area of the fade with the strongest demon taking over. Oh and there is the whole thing of Anders who already has a foot in the fade being more vulnerable to Corpyeous’ imitation old god call than Hawke’s brother or sister if they’re a warden that would be explained by this theory.
 
2. Tevintar Mage Hybrid Units
This is mostly based on the fact that tevintar’s culture and traditions are defined by magic and theirs is the only nation where magic is viewed as a gift, thus it makes sense that with mages free and development of magic encourage that there would be more mages and thus more ability to diversify the fields of study. Plus the arcane warrior already proves the magic arts can be applied to the martial combat focuses so I don’t see why tevintar wouldn’t do so.
 
3. Advanced Staffs and Channeling Gloves
This doesn’t really have a solid root in lore, but I think it is about time mages got more than staffs, and since witch hunt makes wands into a mockery and since mages don’t need a focus to cast magic with, special gloves seems a very mage thing and tevintar seems a good medium to introduce them through. Advanced staffs was mostly since a true mage’s staff should be more than a walking stick and since tevintar mages don’t have to hide what they are in public their staffs should be more ornate and advanced. If such a thing would be carried over in game terms the staff would have better melee damage, better damage per hit, and provide bonuses to offensive magic and decreasing cast time, while channeling gloves have a faster attack, each glove is its own weapon meaning it can be 2 different elemental damages, and provide bonuses to defensive and healing magic and increase duration of positive effects.
 
4. Tevintar Cannons
As much as the andrastian nations want to believe black powder is a qunari secret I see no reason for this to be true. In hundreds of years of continuing warfare between the qunari and tevintar and the game of ping pong they’ve been playing with Sehron it seems unlikely that the imperium has never captured cannons and black powder to learn how to reverse engineer it. Alternatively all they would have to do is capture 1 qunari alchemist and then let a skilled blood mage interrogator have a go and him to either compel the alchemist to tell them how they make black powder, draw the information from their mind, or strike a deal with a demon to help it possess the alchemist in return for sharing the alchemist’s memories once it is in control.
 
Also there is a theory to explain why qunari haven’t developed hand cannons or early guns yet I have that goes that the qunari didn’t actually invent gunpowder and it was actually a tevintar secret that they were developing on Par Vollen when the Qunari arrived.
 
As for why they wouldn’t share this with the other nations, I’d say the simple fact that tevintar doesn’t trust the andrastian nations not to turn around and use it against them once the qunari are gone.

[Jerrybnsn]

levi.porphyrogenitus wrote...

I've always seen the Tevinters as very medieval Roman (Byzantine) in style, ....

Yes, but those are from the Crusade period of the 11th-12th century. The Norman knights who inavded England in 1066 looked like this.  DA already has shown the more advanced 14th and 15th century plate armor being used.


14th & 15th century armor

http://t3.gstatic.co...RZiR27d_mTn11uE

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 25 août 2012 - 11:14 .

[Wulfram]

Tevinters being old fashioned makes sense to me. They're a declining power after all.

[Das Tentakel]

@Porphyrogenitus: Nice pictures of the Byzantine armour made by George Fitzhume. Added his site to my favourites .

Lurklen wrote...

Pretty much everything from Das Tentakel's post I love that stuff. It has all the pomp and self importantness of the Tevinter and somehow the guys wearing it are still intimidating despite looking like some kind of art installation. Those winged Hussars were hard as nails too.

Well, all those East-Central European warrior elites, whether Hungarian or Polish-Lithuanian do seem to have had an attitude…

Tevinter can go any way, if BioWare ever gets to ‘do’ it, which will probably depend on whether Dragon Age III is successful enough. We can speculate as much as we want, but in the end BioWare will do what BioWare will do.
Having said that, I wouldn’t mind seeing Tevinter soldiers carrying dragon standards like these, but a bit ‘sexed up’ for that exaggerated fantasy look (and, of course, they have to ‘hiss’ when blowing in the wind):



After all, Tevinter has some kind of dragon thing going on…
And, of course, armoured elephants. The Seleucids and the Romans used them, and as long as there’s a supply of elephants in northern Thedas, I see no reason why the Tevinter military shouldn’t use them. Moreover, armoured elephants are cool. Think of Tevinter battlemages, scorpion crews or even handgunners on top of them





(Now mentally mix & match and see them marching before your mind’s eye while listening to the ‘Magnificent Century’ theme on www.youtube.com/watch )

Modifié par Das Tentakel, 25 août 2012 - 12:48 .

[Anvos]

Wulfram wrote...

Tevinters being old fashioned makes sense to me. They're a declining power after all.

Older Fashioned maybe, but you need to remember in a world of magic and unnatural metals they don't have to follow direct technological/historical paths.  Also fantasy based rpgs have a degree of suspend the belief for the sake of diversity and art.  Also if you really want to try and follow historical then we should be way past medevil plate armor since the jugernaut armor dates back to the old imperium if the time line is right.

Also the evidence seems to support that though they might not be as strong as they were before the first blight calling tevintar a declining power is likely chantry propaganda.  Plus it seems like since they expelled the white divine and brought back the magister lords and senate that tevintar has been progressing back towards the powers of the old empire that the chantry banned, where only Orlais(mostly the threat of uniting every nation against them in an exalted march) and the war with the qunari have stopped them from making reclaimation attempts.  Honestly if Tevintar was truly a declining power then they shouldn't have been able to hold the qunari to a back and forth battle over one island.

[Jerrybnsn]

"suspend the belief for the sake of diversity".....Okay, but can we please lose the glove?

http://t3.gstatic.co...LCTbfJNTBs-7hYJ

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 25 août 2012 - 11:00 .

[coles4971]

Can we please get rid of that entire set of armour, yeurgh.

[Jerrybnsn]

coles4971 wrote...

Can we please get rid of that entire set of armour, yeurgh.

You know, I just looked at the concept art again (the stuff that was leaked) and I think we are going to be okay.  No spikey armor from what I could see.   But we still have yet to see the dark spawn.  Keeping fingers cross.

http://t1.gstatic.co...oKrDTz3vvvK0Ln6

[Anvos]

coles4971 wrote...

Can we please get rid of that entire set of armour, yeurgh.

Actually wouldn't be that bad if it was the overlord series were talking about.

[TEWR]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I think you see them during DA II.

Not so much that image as the type of soldiers you fight in Bait and Switch, Wayward Son (when fighting Danzig, a Tevinter Slaver), when you fight Danarius in Act 3, and when you fight the Reining Men. All of them have Tevinter Slavers/Soldiers and all of them look the same -- though given this is DAII we're talking about....

The armor has the appearance of the Flint Company Cuirass, while the helmets are... well I can't quite recall what they look like.

But that's what I'd imagine Tevinter soldiers look like.

[Maria Caliban]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

This looks like more Sassinad Empire of the early medival period.  Dragon Age already has the late medival armor being used in Fereldan, Orlais and the Qunari.  Are the Teventierium so confident in their mage skills that they wouldn't adopt the more advance armor?

'Advanced' armor in Thedas is based on the amount of enchanting you can work into the material.

[mousestalker]

They will probably be as butch as possible, but still with certain touches that show they are not adrift from their softer side,

If they want to tap into the Byzantine role model, here are some representations of Byzantine soldiery:


and

[Das Tentakel]

http://a4.ec-images....f5e39e30b/l.jpg

Anvos wrote...

Also fantasy based rpgs have a degree of suspend the belief for the sake of diversity and art. 

Suspension of disbelief. Diversity, art. I totally dig what you are saying.
They would never be able to produce magnificent, diverse art if they merely observed common sense and mixed, matched, tweaked and sexed up (a bit) actual real armour. The net result would be invariably less diverse, boring and artless.









http://img.scoop.it/...Rd1H6kmuBWtceBJ

























Meh. Looks all the same to me...

Jerrybnsn wrote...

"suspend the belief for the sake of diversity".....Okay, but can we please lose the glove?

http://t3.gstatic.co...LCTbfJNTBs-7hYJ

Seconded. When I am playing a fantasy RPG I am perfectly willing to suspend my disbelief.
But hey, it would be awfully jolly nice if the setting and its art design (as well as the writing and the lore) try to be a little, well, just a little believable.

Modifié par Das Tentakel, 26 août 2012 - 11:04 .

[Wulfram]

coles4971 wrote...

Can we please get rid of that entire set of armour, yeurgh.

I doubt we'll see it again unless Hawke gets a cameo.  It's "the Champion's" iconic set

Modifié par Wulfram, 26 août 2012 - 11:06 .

[Direwolf0294]

I always imagined Tevinter soldiers as looking really hardcore. Full plate armour inscribed with runes that augment their speed and strength. Warriors who could easily stand toe to toe with Qunari troops without blinking an eye.

Of course the view's based on the fact that they used to be this super powerful empire that practically ruled the world. I'm sure they're not nearly as impressive now.

@Jerrybnsn
I love the glove. Reminds me of Marique from Conan. Definitely the best looking mage set in the series so far.

Modifié par Direwolf0294, 26 août 2012 - 11:39 .

[Das Tentakel]

http://t3.gstatic.co...LCTbfJNTBs-7hYJ

Well, I remember thinking, when I first saw this and the talk about Hawke being the ‘Champion’, that he was actually a kind of gladiator.
His armour is all in the wrong places. The first body parts you protect with armour are the head and the torso, particularly the heart and soft belly, and he has no armour there.
Instead, he / she wears a humongous pauldron and vambrace, greaves and a big heavy gorget that must really place a lot of pressure on all the wrong places.

However, it is very much like gladiator outfits, which were deliberately designed for show AND creating vulnerabilities that would make for interesting fights. Though Hawke’s armour looks way more fugly and is, let’s put it this way, inferior in ergonomic design. Those armour parts must be putting excessive stress on various parts of his / her bones and muscle. That’s what you get for not wearing a complete set of articulated plate armour…

The main difference is that Hawke does not show much skin, but apart from some small bits of chainmail near the shoulders, he / she might just as well wear a loincloth or, for marketing purposes, a thong.
(Hmmm, better not get the EA marketing department funny ideas….)





I am not sure, by the way, that the BioWare artists were consciously or unconsciously influenced by the partial armour of Roman gladiators. Apart from the armour that simultaneously looks more or less ‘right’ and distinctive – and there is some – there doesn’t seem to be any design principles at work, save a highly subjective and variable interpretation of the Rule of Cool.
Partial armour like this, spiky and all, has become pretty common in fantasy, the result of artists copying each other ad nauseam.

Modifié par Das Tentakel, 29 août 2012 - 08:46 .