97 réponses à ce sujet

[ElitePinecone]

MichaelStuart wrote...

Pasquale1234 wrote...

Like I said, the authored narrative is really just a game mechanic that exists to allow role-play.  So, from my perspective, what you are proposing would bring a single game mechanic to the forefront and make it the entire focus of that mode.

That is exactly what I want tho.
I mode that let me enjoy the story with out the tediousness of combat and travel.

But if the cost of satisfying your specific desire to only see the story is having to modify the entire game, do you really think Bioware would take your request seriously? 

They don't design DA as an interactive storybook, they specifically design it with combat, travel and exploration. Taking those things out doesn't just change what the game is, it'd take a lot of effort on Bioware's part - effort that I'm sure they want to spend on the parts of the game that everyone else enjoys. 

[Darth Death]

Metal gear dragon, is that you?

[MichaelStuart]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

MichaelStuart wrote...

Pasquale1234 wrote...

Like I said, the authored narrative is really just a game mechanic that exists to allow role-play.  So, from my perspective, what you are proposing would bring a single game mechanic to the forefront and make it the entire focus of that mode.

That is exactly what I want tho.
I mode that let me enjoy the story with out the tediousness of combat and travel.

There are a lot of great movies to satisfy that desire.

But how many great interactive movies are there?
It's not enough to have a great story, it needs to also let me affect and change the story.   

[Darth Death]

MichaelStuart wrote...

Pasquale1234 wrote...

MichaelStuart wrote...

Pasquale1234 wrote...

Like I said, the authored narrative is really just a game mechanic that exists to allow role-play.  So, from my perspective, what you are proposing would bring a single game mechanic to the forefront and make it the entire focus of that mode.

That is exactly what I want tho.
I mode that let me enjoy the story with out the tediousness of combat and travel.

There are a lot of great movies to satisfy that desire.

But how many great interactive movies are there?
It's not enough to have a great story, it needs to also let me affect and change the story.   

Do you know how many people will rage if your suggestion was implemented? Please be more considerate. 

Modifié par Darth Death, 25 août 2012 - 05:06 .

[MichaelStuart]

ElitePinecone wrote...

But if the cost of satisfying your specific desire to only see the story is having to modify the entire game, do you really think Bioware would take your request seriously? 

They don't design DA as an interactive storybook, they specifically design it with combat, travel and exploration. Taking those things out doesn't just change what the game is, it'd take a lot of effort on Bioware's part - effort that I'm sure they want to spend on the parts of the game that everyone else enjoys. 

If Bioware doesn't have the time/money/skill to add a story mode, so be it.
I'm only making a suggestion and it never hurts to ask.

[Kidd]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

It is only possible to present a "story only" mode when you render other aspects of gameplay meaningless and insist that the only narrative is the authored one.  And that is where it becomes an animated choose-your-own-adventure book instead of a game.

 
Are you saying there are no roleplaying opportunities within the authored narrative? I'd say that's where, by far, the majority of it lies. What do I say to person X? What do I do when confronted with situation Y? What is my character's opinion on philosophical matter Z?

I suppose you can RP the parts where you kill enemies, look through a vendor's wares and search barrels for treasure, but I've never done it. The moment combat starts, my character becomes a piece in a wargame. I dunno, that's just how it works to me at least even though I tend to do otherwise in tabletop. I'd say most cRPGs do not offer a lot of RP options in combat any ways (my favourite combat RP moment for instance is not really possible to pull off in any single BioWare game, not even BG).

Modifié par KiddDaBeauty, 25 août 2012 - 05:06 .

[MichaelStuart]

Darth Death wrote...

Do you know how many people will rage if your suggestion was implemented? Please by more considerate. 

When are people not raging.
If I went threw life trying to not upset everyone, I wouldn't get anywhere.

[Darth Death]

MichaelStuart wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

Do you know how many people will rage if your suggestion was implemented? Please by more considerate. 

When are people not raging.
If I went threw life trying to not upset everyone, I wouldn't get anywhere.

I'm not suggesting to be a people-pleaser, but consider what you're saying. It wouldn't really have the DA experience that most people recognize. The change is too drastic. 

[Pasquale1234]

MichaelStuart wrote...
But how many great interactive movies are there?
It's not enough to have a great story, it needs to also let me affect and change the story.   

For that, you can play the game.

It feels like you want to fly somewhere to get there ASAP, you don't want a roadtrip, but you want to see all of the scenery along the way.

Frankly, I suspect that if you were presented with a fast-forward mode that would stop only at branch decision points and cutscenes, you would be vastly disappointed.

The primary reason that The Landsmeet scene is so powerful is because of all the work you did and preparations you made to get there.  The scene where you are declared the Champion of Kirkwall would be utterly meaningless if you hadn't done anything to earn it.

Like life, the journey a story presents is what gives meaning to the destination or outcome.  If you have no work to do, no challenges to overcome, no struggles at all, what's the point?

ETA:

KiddDaBeauty wrote...
Are you saying there are no roleplaying opportunities within the authored narrative?

No, only that the authored narrative is only a part of it, and that all aspects of gameplay provide opportunities to express who your character is.

One of my favorite examples is Sylvius's cowardly Warden, who always tried to hide during combat instead of engaging the enemy.  Whether you do that, tank to protect your followers, do ranged combat and try to avoid melee - any of those things are roleplaying opportunities should you choose to use them.  And it is the sum total of all of these things together that create the story being told.

Modifié par Pasquale1234, 25 août 2012 - 05:35 .

[MichaelStuart]

Darth Death wrote...

MichaelStuart wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

Do you know how many people will rage if your suggestion was implemented? Please by more considerate. 

When are people not raging.
If I went threw life trying to not upset everyone, I wouldn't get anywhere.

I'm not suggesting to be a people-pleaser, but consider what you're saying. It wouldn't really have the DA experience that most people recognize. The change is too drastic. 

It's an extra mode. If they don't want to play it they don't have to.
Getting mad at an extra mode is like getting at a extra helping of cake.

[Darth Death]

MichaelStuart wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

MichaelStuart wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

Do you know how many people will rage if your suggestion was implemented? Please by more considerate. 

When are people not raging.
If I went threw life trying to not upset everyone, I wouldn't get anywhere.

I'm not suggesting to be a people-pleaser, but consider what you're saying. It wouldn't really have the DA experience that most people recognize. The change is too drastic. 

It's an extra mode. If they don't want to play it they don't have to.
Getting mad at an extra mode is like getting at a extra helping of cake.

BioWare said the same thing about ME3 & look how that turn out. Auto-dialogue no matter what mode you pick. Better safe than sorry.

[Pasquale1234]

MichaelStuart wrote...
It's an extra mode. If they don't want to play it they don't have to.
Getting mad at an extra mode is like getting at a extra helping of cake.

The problem with that analogy is that the extra helping of cake isn't free.

I don't want the option of having another piece of cake if it means I have to downgrade my steak to a hot dog.

[MichaelStuart]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

MichaelStuart wrote...
But how many great interactive movies are there?
It's not enough to have a great story, it needs to also let me affect and change the story.   

For that, you can play the game.

It feels like you want to fly somewhere to get there ASAP, you don't want a roadtrip, but you want to see all of the scenery along the way.

Frankly, I suspect that if you were presented with a fast-forward mode that would stop only at branch decision points and cutscenes, you would be vastly disappointed.

The primary reason that The Landsmeet scene is so powerful is because of all the work you did and preparations you made to get there.  The scene where you are declared the Champion of Kirkwall would be utterly meaningless if you hadn't done anything to earn it.

Like life, the journey a story presents is what gives meaning to the destination or outcome.  If you have no work to do, no challenges to overcome, no struggles at all, what's the point?

To me Its not really fast forwarding if I see it happening.
A roadtrip still a roadtrip if I'm in the backseat giving direction.

[Pasquale1234]

MichaelStuart wrote...
To me Its not really fast forwarding if I see it happening.
A roadtrip still a roadtrip if I'm in the backseat giving direction.

But you're skipping a lot of what's making it all happen.

And you misinterpreted the travel analogy.  You don't want to roadtrip, but to fly + scenery.

Regardless - I guess we'll just agree to disagree, though I still think you'd be disappointed if such a mode were presented.  It sounds really boring to me.

[MichaelStuart]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

MichaelStuart wrote...
It's an extra mode. If they don't want to play it they don't have to.
Getting mad at an extra mode is like getting at a extra helping of cake.

The problem with that analogy is that the extra helping of cake isn't free.

I don't want the option of having another piece of cake if it means I have to downgrade my steak to a hot dog.

Like I said, if bioware can't do, than so be it.
It never hurts to ask.

[shadow-warlord]

But seriously speaking, i understand you're a bit tired with the combat, i am too, but that doesn't mean they should simply make it an interactive movie. It's technically too difficult and not worth the risk.

Why don't you simply sugegst something that could happen? Like making the exploration and combat parts more interesting by adding more banter or changing some of the game mechanics to make them more story-related.

So yep i undestand that you prefer the story and dialogues to combat( i do too)  bu that doesn't mean they must be removed, simply changed to match the epicness of the story.

How? I don't know but then i'm no game developer nor someone brilliant either...

[JasonPogo]

I love this idea just for like your 2nd or third playthrough. You know when you are just going back and maybe romanceing Fenris this time just to see what happens. It would be nice at that point not to have to alog through the whole game again just to see that part of it. So maybe make it an unlock for beating the game? Like in some games you unlock insanity mode in Bioware you unlock story mode.

[MichaelStuart]

shadow-warlord wrote...

But seriously speaking, i understand you're a bit tired with the combat, i am too, but that doesn't mean they should simply make it an interactive movie. It's technically too difficult and not worth the risk.

Why don't you simply sugegst something that could happen? Like making the exploration and combat parts more interesting by adding more banter or changing some of the game mechanics to make them more story-related.

So yep i undestand that you prefer the story and dialogues to combat( i do too)  bu that doesn't mean they must be removed, simply changed to match the epicness of the story.

How? I don't know but then i'm no game developer nor someone brilliant either...

I did ask about making combat more about player skill and less about character stats, but that just turned into a debate about what constutes a RPG.
Still, even if combat was better, I would still suggest adding a story mode.

[Pasquale1234]

MichaelStuart wrote...

shadow-warlord wrote...
Why don't you simply sugegst something that could happen? Like making the exploration and combat parts more interesting by adding more banter or changing some of the game mechanics to make them more story-related.

I did ask about making combat more about player skill and less about character stats, but that just turned into a debate about what constutes a RPG.

It would also do the exact opposite of what shadow-warlord suggested, which is to make them *more* story-related.

Bringing player skills into combat makes it *less* about the story and character, and more about the player.

[Fast Jimmy]

Hi Stuart,

I would say that this type of game concept would be more likely if Bioware were to try it in a new IP. Bioware has already been bitten with changing too much from one game to the next in a series, I doubt they would be eager to try it again.

That being said, games that have tried the interactiv story game have not been that successful. A game like Indigo Prophecy (or Fahrenheit for those outside the States) was a fantastic game that was much like the game experience you are discussing, but did not sell all that much or make it into the mainstream gaming discussion. A similar case could be said for Heavy Rain.

It sounds like you want one of those games, but with more character and story choice and Bioware telling the story. But turning an existing IP RPG into a different type of game is probably a bad idea.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

MichaelStuart wrote...

I was wondering if it would be possible to add a mode to Dragon Age 3 were the game plays it self out like a interactive movie.
I see it like this. You make your character and the game plays it self (either in game or threw a series of cut screens) untill you have to speak to someone, make a plot decisions, or choose were to travel.
I would like this option because sometimes I just want to sit back and enjoy the story. I also think it would be a good way for people who don't play these games to get in to them.

In the end its only a suggestion.

I'll apologise in advance my choice of words here, but I just have to say..

What is it with you people? People with ideas like this ****ed up Mass Effect 3 with all the auto-dialgoue. It's a goddamn video game, not a movie. If you're too lazy to play the game, don't play it. The combat is 50% of the game. Stop asking for stupid **** like this.

It's nothing personal, but games are already becoming too much like movies. The last thing we need is a movie mode. ME3 had all these different modes trying to make the game appeal to everyone and it ended up really hurting the product. I don't want to see that happen again.

It's a video game. You either play it or you don't. But I do have a suggestion for you. Have you ever played Heavy Rain? You'll probably love it.

[MichaelStuart]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

MichaelStuart wrote...

shadow-warlord wrote...
Why don't you simply sugegst something that could happen? Like making the exploration and combat parts more interesting by adding more banter or changing some of the game mechanics to make them more story-related.

I did ask about making combat more about player skill and less about character stats, but that just turned into a debate about what constutes a RPG.

It would also do the exact opposite of what shadow-warlord suggested, which is to make them *more* story-related.

Bringing player skills into combat makes it *less* about the story and character, and more about the player.

The character is the just the players avater in the game.
Giving the player more control of they character, allows the player to role play better, and make the story better.
Now, no doubt I'll get a few angry comments from people about how I'm completely wrong, so I'll write my response now.

"I disagree"

[Pasquale1234]

MichaelStuart wrote...
The character is the just the players avater in the game.

I see.  I guess when you play more than one character, they're all self-clones.

Personally, I've never played a self-insert, nor is it ever required.

Giving the player more control of they character, allows the player to role play better, and make the story better.

Agreed... which is precisely why I couldn't role-play Hawke, since Hawke was represented as an NPC that I could occasionally direct but rarely really control.

[MichaelStuart]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

MichaelStuart wrote...

I was wondering if it would be possible to add a mode to Dragon Age 3 were the game plays it self out like a interactive movie.
I see it like this. You make your character and the game plays it self (either in game or threw a series of cut screens) untill you have to speak to someone, make a plot decisions, or choose were to travel.
I would like this option because sometimes I just want to sit back and enjoy the story. I also think it would be a good way for people who don't play these games to get in to them.

In the end its only a suggestion.

I'll apologise in advance my choice of words here, but I just have to say..

What is it with you people? People with ideas like this ****ed up Mass Effect 3 with all the auto-dialgoue. It's a goddamn video game, not a movie. If you're too lazy to play the game, don't play it. The combat is 50% of the game. Stop asking for stupid **** like this.

It's nothing personal, but games are already becoming too much like movies. The last thing we need is a movie mode. ME3 had all these different modes trying to make the game appeal to everyone and it ended up really hurting the product. I don't want to see that happen again.

It's a video game. You either play it or you don't. But I do have a suggestion for you. Have you ever played Heavy Rain? You'll probably love it.

NO
I will never stop asking for better games.

I played demo to Heavy Rain, it was enjoyable.

[andar91]

I support changing the difficulty titles to be more like Mass Effect's (2, at least, I haven't seen the others), and I have no issue with a super-easy mode for people who simply want the story. But to take it to the degree you're talking about is going way too far in my opinion. Sure, I love Heavy Rain and games like that, but I don't think it fits for Dragon Age, and (in my inexpert opinion) I'd imagine that the technology would be at best strained and at worst broken by trying to accomodate to different modes of gameplay that are so different from one another. Making the combat easier? Sure. But creating one traditional game mode and another where the entire story is done in cutscenes? That's making two different games.