26 réponses à ce sujet

[Vivedo3ooo]

Pretty much what the title's about. I want a good, well-rounded set of spells, not too defensive and not too offensive, just balanced. Any thoughts?

[ussnorway]

Vanilla or SCS?

[Vivedo3ooo]

Vanilla.

[ussnorway]

in order;
'Friends', ‘Chromatic Orb’ & 'Armour'.
‘Invisibility’ & ‘Glitterdust’
'Skull Trap'
‘Minor Sequencer’ & ‘Polymorph Self'... from there it depends on your play-style.

[Biotic_Warlock]

I always find sorcerers hard to build. Solo build would just be even more confusing.

I try to avoid any spells that ever become outdated; however those are most useful at low levels. I.e sleep and death spell.

Magic missile is always good. Especially once the dragons become involved. If you aren't concerned about loot you could also use disintegrade against many tougher enemies.

Lower resistance is a very good spell which is very rare for a normal mage to find.

Massive spell resistance reduction... lets you mage golems to death. Use it enough and Shadows of Amn dragons die easy; they have terrible saves.

Modifié par Biotic_Warlock, 24 août 2012 - 04:10 .

[amanasleep]

The truly essential spells for vanilla:

L1: Magic Missile, Pro Evil, Shield (or Armor)
L2: Invis, Mirror Image
L3: Remove Magic, Melf's meteors, Skull Trap
L4: Improved Invis, Minor Sequencer, Stoneskin
L5: Breach, Lower Resistance, Spell Immunity
L6: Pro Magic Weapons, True Sight
L7: Mordy Sword, Project Image, Sequencer
L8: Wilting, Trigger
L9: Chain Contingency, Time Stop

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Death Spell never becomes obsolete. For as long as there are summons in the game, Death Spell will remove them for you.

[BelgarathMTH]

I notice that a lot of people like the minor sequencer. What do you put into it?
Magic Missile x2? Chromatic Orb x2? One MM and one CO? Acid Arrow x2? One AA and one MM or Co? An invisibility and an AA, MM or CO? An invisibility and a Mirror Image?

I've never felt like any of these combos were really worth giving up a fourth level spell slot, but I'm interested in being convinced otherwise. Is one of the combos really so good that it's better than having another fourth level spell available?

[amanasleep]

BelgarathMTH wrote...

I notice that a lot of people like the minor sequencer. What do you put into it?
Magic Missile x2? Chromatic Orb x2? One MM and one CO? Acid Arrow x2? One AA and one MM or Co? An invisibility and an AA, MM or CO? An invisibility and a Mirror Image?

I've never felt like any of these combos were really worth giving up a fourth level spell slot, but I'm interested in being convinced otherwise. Is one of the combos really so good that it's better than having another fourth level spell available?

It can be argued that Sorcerers can't spare the space for Minor Sequencer, but actually there aren't many more than 5 other spells that are worth taking at that level:

Improved Invis
Polymorph Self
Spider Spawn
Stoneskin
Teleport Field

I guess I might take that lot without the sequencer, but I find it's generally useful, since it allows you to cast 2 spells with 1 aura, and gets you +2 spell slots per rest. It also casts in 1 segment and is difficult to interrupt. My favorite combos:

2x Web. This is significantly better than 1 Web, and can actually prevent enemies from closing distance. Many enemies will save from 1 Web and close before you can cast #2.

Mirror Image and Blur: Very effective when fighting an extended battle. If your battle lasts 15 rounds and your prebuffs run out, you'll be glad you have this.

2x Scorcher: This and Haste or Boots of Speed can kill a lot of enemies.

2x Strength: This is to cast after Polymorph: Sword Spider. Perfect since polymorphing disables your spell menu but not the sequencer. Strength gives a significant attack bonus to the spider form. Replace 1 Strength with Chill Touch if fighting a spellcaster.

[amanasleep]

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...

Death Spell never becomes obsolete. For as long as there are summons in the game, Death Spell will remove them for you.

True enough, but Death Fog does the same at the same level, and has other uses, like killing Liches.

[Satyricon331]

At level 4, personally, I never take the Minor Sequencer. In vanilla, Teleport Field is a great spell (w/ SCS, enemy fighters know how to respond). But another spell to take at that level is Minor Globe of Invulnerability. You can use it to cast Skull Trap/Fireball on yourself to damage opponents who are right on top of you, and later you can put it and 2 skull traps/FBs in a Spell Sequencer - so MGoI basically transforms ST or FB into a mini-Sunfire (and in vanilla, ST has no cap on its damage as you level up, so eventually it will be better than Sunfire). Plus, many of the clerics' disabling spells are lvl3 or below.

I'm also a fan of the Death Spell. In vanilla, w/o it or Death Fog, I just don't know what you'd do against a Nishruu. amanasleep - how do you use Death Fog effectively when the summons are very close to you? That's what I always had problems with.

PS, Hey Belgarath!

[Incantatar]

how do you use Death Fog effectively when the summons are very close to you? That's what I always had problems with.

Protection from Acid. The combo is very powerful in vanilla and even more so if you fix the infinity engine bugs with TobEx so that you won't take the 0 damage interruptions.


But speaking of Minor Sequencer. I read somewhere that the same projectiles sometimes only count as one in sequencers. Is there truth to it?

[Satyricon331]

Giving a level 5 slot for PfAcid seems so painful... I might try it at some point though now that I have that tobex fix (I just reinstalled a few days ago). With SCS2, do opponents know to avoid the cloud?

With sequencers, opponents only roll a save once, and that number is used against each spell, so e.g. putting two horrors in doesn't help the chance they fail their saves. I haven't heard anything about projectile problems, though. Two MMs work.

Modifié par Satyricon331, 25 août 2012 - 12:18 .

[ussnorway]

No but you can lose one if the target is illegal i.e. fire a touch spell from range... I like 'Web' & ‘Glitterdust’ for SCS bg1 because it is safe to use it inside an inn full of bystanders.

[Vivedo3ooo]

This is all too confusing and my question still is being even more questioning now, since a lot of you have opinions of your own and I only wanted one obsolete opinion. Basically, what I want in a spell pick is versatility. What I'm trying to say is that, I don't want to be going through some part in the game and go "Oh shi-, I don't have a spell for that."

[ussnorway]

Then play a divine caster like Cleric or Druid... if you must play arcane then start with a Mage until you learn the game.

This game has no "you need this character/ spell to win" that's why different people have different spell picks but a sorcerer must have specific tactics in mind when picking her spells and you have not told us any.

Are you fighting at range or up in their face & will you be skipping some fights or doing all the game?

Good or evil?

[Vivedo3ooo]

ussnorway wrote...

Then play a divine caster like Cleric or Druid... if you must play arcane then start with a Mage until you learn the game.

This game has no "you need this character/ spell to win" that's why different people have different spell picks but a sorcerer must have specific tactics in mind when picking her spells and you have not told us any.

Are you fighting at range or up in their face & will you be skipping some fights or doing all the game?

Good or evil?

You've misinterpreted what I've just said. I know that the game offers many options, what I mean is what's the best set that makes you ready for whatever the game throws at you. Because I'll be playing a strict solo, as this game is far too easy with a party.

[ussnorway]

In level order;

'Friends' = money... especially for evil players & the best place to buy/ sell gear is the Carnival (bg1).

‘Chromatic Orb’ because;
1. It does about the same damage at low levels but you get extra effects (stun & petrify etc) at higher levels.
2. It is not blocked by the ‘Shield’ spell,
3. If you really want ‘Magic Missile’ you can use a wand.

'Armour' because there is no elven chain in vanilla bg1.

‘Sleep’ is a strong spell in bg1 but it comes in a wand and quickly becomes useless in bg2.

‘Invisibility’ because it lasts for 24 hours which means you can rest securely... if an encounter triggers you just walk away and rest again.

‘Glitterdust’ because;
1. It fits inside ‘Minor Sequencer’ for fast casting with that ‘Web’ spell you like.
2. It reveals stealthy targets like backstabbing thieves.
3. Unlike the other anti-stealth spells it is conjuration/ summoning instead of divination so is not blocked by ‘SI:Div’... this is only an issue if you play with difficulty increasing mods like SCS.
4. It can ‘Blind’ the targets if they are enemies.
5. Has no effect against friendly or neutral targets so it is safe to use it inside an inn full of bystanders.

'Skull Trap' because it does the same damage as ‘Fireball’ but can be placed as a trap as well as fired directly.

‘Minor Sequencer’ allows you to fire two spells faster than you could fire one normally... perfect for getting yourself out of an ambush & it works while in armour or polymorphed.

‘Polymorph Self' is a play-style spell but lets say you want extra attacks for this fight... go spider, if you need health back then go troll... if she is casting a “wand of frost” at you then go wolf... the options this single spell gives you are endless.

p.s. This is a No Spoilers Allowed forum so perhaps a nice moderator could move it for us?

Modifié par ussnorway, 25 août 2012 - 02:01 .

[amanasleep]

Satyricon331 wrote...

At level 4, personally, I never take the Minor Sequencer. In vanilla, Teleport Field is a great spell (w/ SCS, enemy fighters know how to respond). But another spell to take at that level is Minor Globe of Invulnerability. You can use it to cast Skull Trap/Fireball on yourself to damage opponents who are right on top of you, and later you can put it and 2 skull traps/FBs in a Spell Sequencer - so MGoI basically transforms ST or FB into a mini-Sunfire (and in vanilla, ST has no cap on its damage as you level up, so eventually it will be better than Sunfire). Plus, many of the clerics' disabling spells are lvl3 or below.

I'm also a fan of the Death Spell. In vanilla, w/o it or Death Fog, I just don't know what you'd do against a Nishruu. amanasleep - how do you use Death Fog effectively when the summons are very close to you? That's what I always had problems with.

PS, Hey Belgarath!

I am generally pursuaded that MGOI could be better than Minor Sequencer.  The sequencer is generally good because it buffs offence and defense, and stays useful most of the game.

The best way to deal with Nishruu is Mordy Sword, although the Berserker from the Horn of Valhalla works well too. Spiders from Spider Spawn take a little longer to get them because they do piercing instead of slashing, but at least they're cheap and fast.

[Satyricon331]

@amanasleep - Mordy Sword could work too. Nishruu are fast though, and (maybe this is an scs thing, but) they tend to ignore summons to go for you. I'd be nervous, but I can see how it'd work.

@vivedo3ooo - I haven't soloed BG1, so I'd hesitate to suggest a whole list, but for specific spells to pick to keep the combat versatility you want, I'd recommend -

-Sleep - the wand comes late, and nearly every enemy you face in the first chunk of BG1 is vulnerable to this spell. It makes you pretty safe when you're starting out.

-Invisibility - there are some enemies you'll want to avoid at the early levels, plus it lets you take your time to cast protection spells ("buffing") on yourself (hide behind a tree or around a corner to foil their divination spells). Otherwise you have to buff quickly. I find it's still very useful in BG2 thanks to how it helps buffing.

-Minor Globe of Invulnerability - like I said above, this spell helps against melee enemies, if you also have Skull Trap or Fireball. (Also, the damage from ST or FB resets enemies' initiative, which gives you a second to run away until it's time to cast a spell again.) It's also versatile since it has obvious uses against spellcasters.

-Spell Shield might be helpful for you, since it's basically the only spell that can foil an enemy's Breach. Also, in vanilla it immunizes you to beholder rays as I recall.

-Improved Invisibility - I'd say it also helps your versatility since its armor bonus and saving-throw bonus helps against melee opponents as well as spellcasters. Consider combining with Spell Immunity (Divination and Abjuration) to immunize yourself to vanilla mages (a bit cheesy, but it'd up your combat flexibility).

[Biotic_Warlock]

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...

Death Spell never becomes obsolete. For as long as there are summons in the game, Death Spell will remove them for you.

Oh yeah, that true. Though in TOB there isn't much summoning.

Maybe im confusing with Icewind Dale (death spell doesn't even work in Heart of Fury).

[Grond0]

Vivedo3ooo wrote...
You've misinterpreted what I've just said. I know that the game offers many options, what I mean is what's the best set that makes you ready for whatever the game throws at you. Because I'll be playing a strict solo, as this game is far too easy with a party.

I agree with ussnorway that it's not really possible to give you a list of spells that work in all situations as so much depends on your playstyle.  For what it's worth here's my thoughts on the lower level spells:

Level 1
Magic missile.  In BG1 chromatic orb is a good alternative, but later on its saving throw bonus will give you no chance with the additional effect and the damage is much lower.  MM is also good for removing mirror images quickly - particularly important in vanilla to allow damage from area effect spells to get through.
Protection from evil.  Good all-round buff.
Shield.  Better AC than armour and also protects against magic missiles.  Although armour has a very long duration the 5 turns for shield is enough for almost all encounters.

Depending on your playstyle blind, charm person, chill touch, friends, identify, sleep and spook all have their advantages.

Level 2
Invisibility.  Allows safe travelling and gives you many more options on managing fights.
Mirror image.  Great defensive spell in vanilla.
Web.  Great disabling spell for crowd control and to allow automatic hits.  Combine with free action or polymorph to spider for even more fun.  The downside is you need to be careful not to be caught yourself.

Depending on your playstyle blur, detect invisibility, glitterdust, horror, knock, acid arrow, ray enfeeblement, resist fear and strength all have their advantages.

Level 3
MMM.  Hits virtually anything in vanilla at an excellent rate of fire.

Depending on your playstyle ghost armour, haste, minor spell deflection, protection from fire, remove magic, skull trap, slow, spell thrust, vampiric touch and wraithform all have their advantages.

Level 4
Improved invisibility.  Don't leave home without it.  Stops many spells being cast on you and gives a major boost to saving throws and AC.
Stoneskin.  The mages friend in melee.

There are so many really useful spells at 4th level its hard to make a choice.  Confusion, dimension door, emotion, fireshield, greater malison, MGoI, minor sequencer, polymorph self, teleport field and wizard eye could all be indispensable to you depending on the tactics you use.

Level 5
Spell immunity.  Can make you virtually safe from magical attack.

The following all have their uses depending on your playstyle.  Animate dead (particularly once skeleton warriors are available), breach, chaos, lower resistance, protection from electricity, protection from acid, spell shield, sunfire.

Note that I am assuming that you are happy to make use of wands.  Spells like fireball, cloudkill and monster summoning certainly have their uses, but are probably best cast from wands unless you have an objection to doing that.

[ussnorway]

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...

Death Spell never becomes obsolete. For as long as there are summons in the game, Death Spell will remove them for you.

Oh yeah, that true. Though in TOB there isn't much summoning.

Maybe im confusing with Icewind Dale (death spell doesn't even work in Heart of Fury).

So you wouldn’t consider using say; a Planetar, Elemental lord, 6 Vampires, a Berserker warrior, a Skeleton warrior, a Efreeti and Juggernaut Golem... all with ‘Strength of One’ and ‘Protection from Un-dead’ worth poping out to assist you with attacking human Draconis?

[amanasleep]

ussnorway wrote...

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...

Death Spell never becomes obsolete. For as long as there are summons in the game, Death Spell will remove them for you.

Oh yeah, that true. Though in TOB there isn't much summoning.

Maybe im confusing with Icewind Dale (death spell doesn't even work in Heart of Fury).

So you wouldn’t consider using say; a Planetar, Elemental lord, 6 Vampires, a Berserker warrior, a Skeleton warrior, a Efreeti and Juggernaut Golem... all with ‘Strength of One’ and ‘Protection from Un-dead’ worth poping out to assist you with attacking human Draconis?

There isn't much enemy summoning. The point is, once you get to ToB there are very few targets for Death Spell. The most feequent enemy summons are Demons, which are Gated and can't be killed by Death Spell. This is one of the reasons I try to skip it. Even in SoA there are relatively few battles where it is needed. I think you can get by with scrolls rather than burn a L6 slot on it.

[Biotic_Warlock]

ussnorway wrote...

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...

Death Spell never becomes obsolete. For as long as there are summons in the game, Death Spell will remove them for you.

Oh yeah, that true. Though in TOB there isn't much summoning.

Maybe im confusing with Icewind Dale (death spell doesn't even work in Heart of Fury).

So you wouldn’t consider using say; a Planetar, Elemental lord, 6 Vampires, a Berserker warrior, a Skeleton warrior, a Efreeti and Juggernaut Golem... all with ‘Strength of One’ and ‘Protection from Un-dead’ worth poping out to assist you with attacking human Draconis?

Oh, no, I meant enemy summoning.
Summoning spells on sorc is always good (though i normally leave that to other mages/druids in the party since solo isn't my thing).
Also the down part that there is a max of 5 known spells per level (i think the 5th level 9 spell is over the level cap)