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Mass Effect 3 - Project X (Mass Effect 3 Indoctrination DLC) - Rumours [Official Thread]


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#576
Verit

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The Angry One wrote...

I don't think they're being very direct, there's a lot of stringing along and being vague about things.
But outright lying after this whole ending fiasco? Haven't seen it.

http://social.biowar...ndex/12695580/1

That's Chris blatantly lying about EMS. They claim to have changed it because they felt like it, while before release they promised this wouldn't be an issue in the first place. After the release of ME 3 and before the EC, all they did was lock threads that had people calling them out on the fact that they didn't deliver what they promised. I'm not saying they're lying now, but after the EMS thing I have no reason whatsoever to trust anything a Bioware employee says.

Modifié par -Draikin-, 05 septembre 2012 - 08:37 .


#577
xsamplexample

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 EC doesnt prove/disprove a thing....just makes the ending longer.  IT isnt dead at all, bioware obviously wanted that same message to stay.  Thats why shep wakes up.  Him waking up (assuming IT is false) wa a major plot hole, which they didnt fix think about it ppl...

#578
xsamplexample

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IT doesnt have to be confirmed....
Bioware never even disapproved IT, which they DO know about.

EC just made the endings longer, but kept ALL the main pieces of supporting IT evidence. They wanted the overall message to stay the same. There is a disconnect between what the fans want and what bioware thinks they do; thats why we got EC.

Shepard STILL wakes up after destroy only. Contradicting real-life and fictional physics, as well as proving the catalyst lied about what he said.

The dream sequences. Anyone thats played the game cant deny that argument... why the kid? easy; all in his head.

I actually cant believe MORE people dont buy into IT.... oh well i guess ME can go back to being esoteric again. At least we sifted out the lame FPS crowd.

#579
dorktainian

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IT rocks. Sheps breath...... jeez people wake up. He only breathes in the DESTROY ending. Everything else is indoctrination. Control? yeah like the reapers are going to let you control them. And actually do you control them? I dont think so. Its an analogy for humanity becoming reaperised with Shep as it's mind. Synthesis. The best looking ending and the one that betrays us all the most. Machines serve us. We created them. The moment they develop more intelligence than us we're screwed. Another thing. How are we meant to feed if everything is synthisised? LAME!!

#580
Ithurael

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I think around March 2013 is when the IT crowed will finally disperse knowing that the ending was truly the ending...

Bioware states that IT is a valid interpretation. If you believe in something, who am I to say it is false?

However, bioware has stated that there is going to be no more ending, post ending, post breath dlc for mass effect 3. ME3 is the end of shepards story and the current story arch. And - finally - they have stated that If your version of IT requires more content - more to be had - you will be disappointed as that is not their official interpretation of the ending nor the direction they decided to go in.

The end is the end. ME4 will probably be a new game with a new protagonist in a galaxy with/without the reapers anymore. Or they may just make a prequel.

Suffice it to say that IT is a valid interpretation, however it is not the direction that bioware wants to take the franchise

#581
Merchant2006

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This thread is filled with false delicious hopes hahahahahahaha

#582
kopfentot

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Is it right that I enjoy the desperation of all these IT fanatics? ahhahHHAHHAHAHA

#583
kyban

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I had a dream this was real. The sad part is how depressed I felt when I realized I had woken up :(

#584
rymajn3

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kopfentot wrote...

Is it right that I enjoy the desperation of all these IT fanatics? ahhahHHAHHAHAHA

And I feel sorry for all the people who think the ending was well done. :whistle:

#585
f0rmaldehyde

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Guys..guys...GUYS...seriously.

What are the benefits of this? We know BW arent secretly working on something to blow our minds. We hoped for that with the original ending and it was a disappointment. We hoped for that with the EC...and nope. Nothing. Reality is BW have had many opportunities to make a wonderful reveal and its just not happened. Its time to face it that ME is what it is. Theres nothing mysterious, no underlying wonder. Its exactly what it appears on face value.

Leviathan sounded exciting and was full of lots of 'deep' or 'interesting' dialogue but in the end it doesnt mean anything, because the final destination is what it is.

I have the utmost respect for the IT enthusiasts and time and time again Im like "hah! that was cool, nice work" but I know deep inside my black little heart that its just not what was intended. The reason BW have not actively disproved IT is because it gives a level of mystery and interest in their ending even though it was the creation of fans and not what they intended.That mystery created by fans have given their ending (which was quite straight forward with no surprises) more value. Really, they would be crazy to knock back IT because its the only thing keeping fans interested.

We might secretly hope that BW are going to suddenly come out with huge DLC or even an ME4 that continues Shepards story on with a "You havent defeated the reapers it was all a dream LOL!" but I cant even begin to express how much that is just not going to happen.

'keep-it-simple-stupid' simply: the ending sucked, there was no deeper meaning in it and BW arent going to step on IT peoples hard work because its the only thing giving the ending any kind of meaning.

Im as sad as the next fan, but its over guys. But keep up the good work with IT anyway, I do very much always enjoy reading/watching about it :)

#586
zambot

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f0rmaldehyde wrote...

I have the utmost respect for the IT enthusiasts and time and time again Im like "hah! that was cool, nice work" but I know deep inside my black little heart that its just not what was intended. The reason BW have not actively disproved IT is because it gives a level of mystery and interest in their ending even though it was the creation of fans and not what they intended.That mystery created by fans have given their ending (which was quite straight forward with no surprises) more value. Really, they would be crazy to knock back IT because its the only thing keeping fans interested.
 


Yup they will never outright shoot down IT.  Multiple interpretations of the ending validates their art.  And as stated, it keeps people talking about the game (more DLC sales!)  Coming out and saying that it's not valid (or that it is for that matter) does them no good.

#587
JeffZero

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rymajn3 wrote...

kopfentot wrote...

Is it right that I enjoy the desperation of all these IT fanatics? ahhahHHAHHAHAHA

And I feel sorry for all the people who think the ending was well done. :whistle:


I don't enjoy anyone's desperation. I feel for all of you. But I do enjoy the EC endings for the most part, so feel sorry for me all you want. Just know that I reciprocate.

#588
Ithurael

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zambot wrote...

f0rmaldehyde wrote...

I have the utmost respect for the IT enthusiasts and time and time again Im like "hah! that was cool, nice work" but I know deep inside my black little heart that its just not what was intended. The reason BW have not actively disproved IT is because it gives a level of mystery and interest in their ending even though it was the creation of fans and not what they intended.That mystery created by fans have given their ending (which was quite straight forward with no surprises) more value. Really, they would be crazy to knock back IT because its the only thing keeping fans interested.
 


Yup they will never outright shoot down IT.  Multiple interpretations of the ending validates their art.  And as stated, it keeps people talking about the game (more DLC sales!)  Coming out and saying that it's not valid (or that it is for that matter) does them no good.


Someone's interpretation is not wrong nor is it incorrect. That is why bioware has not stated it as such. Imagine if a game company stated to its players: "NO! This is what happend in the game and you're wrong!" LOL

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and interpretation. However, bioware has stated again and again that there is nothing else coming. Merizan stated that IT Dream is not the route they will and are taking.

You can believe what you want about the game, just don't expect shepard to wake up and finish the fight. It is already finished with EC

#589
WhiteKnyght

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kyban wrote...

Ithurael wrote...

Here is some more

twitter.com/sirj87/status/240644694235807744

I doubt that they would lie anymore.


I noticed that she said "Your version of IT..." hmmm


I believe she means you can make of the ending what you will. How everyone interprets things is different and they cant force you to think one way or the other.

But they're personally not going for it and will never make another ending expansion.


THEE_DEATHMASTER wrote...

They've lied before.


So do indoctrination theorists apparently. (I think you guys are indoctrinating yourselves. Which suggests low intelligence and highly succeptable to suggestion.)

Also "they've lied before" is a damn weak argument when trying to prove something that requires solid facts and the only "evidence" you do have are a couple of weak circumstantial coincidences that were largely ironed out by the extended cut.

- The squadmate evactuation from the push to the beam was added.

- Hackett learning of Shepard's success and ordering the fleets to defend the Crucible was added.

- Shepard's arrival in the Citadel was added(and looked rather painful. Poor Shep gets thrown around all the time) when the fact that he just "woke up there" was exploited.

- Leviathan pretty much answered what The Illusive Man's "control" of Shep and Anderson was. He was using the Dominate power that you unlock after beating Leviathan once.

- You can now question/argue with the Catalyst and refuse to use the Crucible. Which was probably the strongest argument you guys had back then.

- The reason the Normandy evac'd was revealed(I said pretty much all along that they had retreat orders in case the Crucible was deadly to them.)

- The new, and free to everyone, epilogue is also a gartantuan waste of money and time if it was all a lie.

Also the most common sense reason for IT not being real, the most blatantly obvious thing, is that if it all was in Shep's head, there would not be a varying degree of choice outcomes based on your EMS. There would be one ending for each choice and it'd all be Lala perfecto. Not ranging from harmless(3000+ on all three) to galactic apocalypse(less than 1700 on destroy).

#590
Ithurael

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-Draikin- wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

I don't think they're being very direct, there's a lot of stringing along and being vague about things.
But outright lying after this whole ending fiasco? Haven't seen it.

http://social.biowar...ndex/12695580/1

That's Chris blatantly lying about EMS. They claim to have changed it because they felt like it, while before release they promised this wouldn't be an issue in the first place. After the release of ME 3 and before the EC, all they did was lock threads that had people calling them out on the fact that they didn't deliver what they promised. I'm not saying they're lying now, but after the EMS thing I have no reason whatsoever to trust anything a Bioware employee says.


Yes, they lied or spun the truth before the sh*t storm. This does NOT mean that they are doing it now.

See what happens when you lie bioware - your fans go batsh*t insane on you and cause a PR nightmare.

If you can, could you please provide me a piece of evidence where a bioware employee lied about a mass-effect story related detail after the sh*tstorm (let us assume after the EC as a target).

They lied before, they got called out on it. I do not think they will do it again out of fear - or dread - of having to go through the debacle again.

besides, if you (just one employee) lies about something does that mean the entire company lies now? Or that person is a liar for ever and ever?

#591
Ithurael

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The Grey Nayr wrote...

*snip*


Well put Grey

Very well put.

Can face value fans answer all the problems that arise with the current ending? No. There is no in game explanation because the ending was put together so damn fast that it sacrificed the narrative. IT was great because it had all the answers - supposedly - and offered hope for something better. That 'better' something is not coming.

#592
WhiteKnyght

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-Draikin- wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

I don't think they're being very direct, there's a lot of stringing along and being vague about things.
But outright lying after this whole ending fiasco? Haven't seen it.

http://social.biowar...ndex/12695580/1

That's Chris blatantly lying about EMS. They claim to have changed it because they felt like it, while before release they promised this wouldn't be an issue in the first place. After the release of ME 3 and before the EC, all they did was lock threads that had people calling them out on the fact that they didn't deliver what they promised. I'm not saying they're lying now, but after the EMS thing I have no reason whatsoever to trust anything a Bioware employee says.


I don't see any lies in that post. The biggest reason you couldn't get over4000 EMS in singleplayer w/o MP was because some of the war assets were bugged IIRC. The Mineral Resources was supposed to be higher/lower based on how much you had collected in ME2 before importing. So if you mined every planet and spent sparingly, you should have been able to accumulate 500+ of each resource, equating to 500TMS/250EMS. And IIRC, the highest you can get currently is 2750. So 2750 + 250 = 4000

Not to mention there are seveal small things with alter EMS at the lowest levels.

And Extended Cut lowered the requirement for the Breath scene to 3100. That is actually too low imo. It should be 3500-3700, requiring you to put in the most work to get every available asset.

Also as I remember, they just said "You don't need to play multiplayer to get the best ending"

The "best ending" is subjective, but Bioware implies Synthesis is the best future/outcome, not Shep Survivies Destroy. And "don't need to play MP" is not the same as "Don't need to do anything extra." So they damn well might have intended for DLC to be needed.(Leviathan adds like 1000 to TMS, next DLC might too) and it should go without saying that DLC isn't multiplayer.

#593
duranii

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Unfortunately, we gave Bioware too much credit in that they could actually pull off an epic ending to the Mass Effect series.

IT would have been perfect, but sadly, all we got was "artistic integrity." That's just a BS term for "cop out."

The Leviathan DLC only served to reinforce their crappy ending more. If IT was true, Bioware wouldn't have decided to go into further detail about starbrat. All they're trying to do is reinforce the stupid logic of the ending. Look how many plot holes they tried to fill with the EC plus with this DLC. Why would they be trying so hard if indoctrination is truly the ending? Seems like an awful lot of effort to troll your fanbase.

Sorry, I don't think Bioware is fooling anyone. They copped out, F'ed up and now are hiding under "artistic integrity."

#594
UrgentArchengel

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I may like, and enjoy IT, but I also know that it's really just us trying to piece together something this new Bioware could never come up with. Maybe there is something, maybe there isn't. But as of right now, it's clear what Bioware intends. Time will tell once every DLC is released. Come next March when they've finished everything, we will know, and your just going to have to except what's in front of you. It's either fantasy, or reality. Your can't have both.

#595
ShepnTali

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The Grey Nayr wrote...

-Draikin- wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

I don't think they're being very direct, there's a lot of stringing along and being vague about things.
But outright lying after this whole ending fiasco? Haven't seen it.

http://social.biowar...ndex/12695580/1

That's Chris blatantly lying about EMS. They claim to have changed it because they felt like it, while before release they promised this wouldn't be an issue in the first place. After the release of ME 3 and before the EC, all they did was lock threads that had people calling them out on the fact that they didn't deliver what they promised. I'm not saying they're lying now, but after the EMS thing I have no reason whatsoever to trust anything a Bioware employee says.




And Extended Cut lowered the requirement for the Breath scene to 3100. That is actually too low imo. It should be 3500-3700, requiring you to put in the most work to get every available asset.




3100 is fine, unless there's a better payoff than a one second breath for doing all the boring, extra mining.

#596
The Twilight God

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Ithurael wrote...

Yeah, but all of that was before the sh*t storm. What have they lied about since? I can get the lying and hype before a massive sh*tstorm, but after? I think bioware learned that they need to be a bit more up front and direct with the fanbase.


Supposedly MP DLC was the latest lie from Mr. Priestly. It was leaked, he denied, then 2 or 3 weeks later it was announced.

As I said, they simply have no credibility. Their denial is tantamount to a confirmation in the eyes of many. It's kinda sad when you think about it.  

#597
The Twilight God

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xsamplexample wrote...

 EC doesnt prove/disprove a thing....just makes the ending longer.  IT isnt dead at all, bioware obviously wanted that same message to stay.  Thats why shep wakes up.  Him waking up (assuming IT is false) wa a major plot hole, which they didnt fix think about it ppl...



How is the breath scene a plothole???

#598
UrgentArchengel

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The Twilight God wrote...

xsamplexample wrote...

 EC doesnt prove/disprove a thing....just makes the ending longer.  IT isnt dead at all, bioware obviously wanted that same message to stay.  Thats why shep wakes up.  Him waking up (assuming IT is false) wa a major plot hole, which they didnt fix think about it ppl...



How is the breath scene a plothole???


Mainly because there is no way in Hell Shepard could survive all that.  His current injuries, and then an explosion practically point-blank.  Shepard should be dead.

#599
The Twilight God

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UrgentArchengel wrote...

Mainly because there is no way in Hell Shepard could survive all that.  His current injuries, and then an explosion practically point-blank.  Shepard should be dead.


His injuries weren't all that bad. That fact that he could get up and converse with the Kid for 10 minutes shows he was doing fine.

Power junction explosion

As far as what occurs when Shepard shoots the power junction, Shepard is not killed by this. The fireball never even engulfs Shepard before it disapates. And it's a Hollywood explosion anyway. Shepard survived this, which clearly had more force behind it than the power conduit explosion that looked to barely knock Shepard off his feet. It is the change in pressure that are the most lethal aspect of the explosion seeing as the fire does not engulf Shepard. A brief second of heat is not going to kill Shepard unless it is extemely hot which isn't evident in that scene. If the explosion in Arrival, which tossed him like a rag doll, didn't burst his ear drums, rupture is gastro intestines and pop his lung capillaries the leser force/pressure change of the power junction explosion certainly isn;t going to be deadly.

Citadel Explosion

The explosion is actually several smaller explosions centered where the ward arms connected to the presidium. The lower left arm's connection point is the first to start exploding, then the upper right, then the top one; then all three burst at once. This is why the fireball favors not the central tower, but the upper left corner. The "lids" which seal the presidium end seem to be blown off as well. (three peices are seen flying off). It all appears to be one large explosion. After which the top ward arm detaches from the Presidium. The Presidium itself remains intact... relatively speaking.

Tthe explosion would not destroy the Citadel Tower. In space heat (and force) cannot disperse via explosion as there is no atmosphere for conduction. Not that mass effect depicts realistic space explosion, but it is just a game. The debris is what carries the heat in the form of hot metal which will slowly radiate it as light or by hitting something cooler. So Shepard will not be fried by the explosion. The heat isn't going to boil the Citadel Tower as heat cannot travel through vaccuum in that manner. The only thing Shepard would feel is the vibrations from the Presidium which, given the size of those explosions, might cause some structural damage to the Tower still wouldn't result in heat damage. As long as Shepard made his way back into the interior of the tower he should be fine.




The problem with Dream Theorist is that you make a conscius choice to only see things through dream goggles. The idea of Shepard surviving is dismissed because if you acknowledge that it's plausible he survives then you lose a supposed piece of evidence for your debunked theory. So you only imagine scenarios where he must die and ignore anything contrary to your own preconceived notions. It's pure circular logic.
 
Conclusion = circumstantial evidence = conclusion

It's a dream = therefore graphics glitches, resued textures, developer oversights/shortcuts, etc are evidence it's a dream = it must be a dream

The only indoctrination is when TIM is holding Shepard and Anderson with dominate while the Reapers apply intense indoctrination. Then after that the attempt continues more subtly and it's up to the player if it succeeds or fails. Synthesis, Control and Refuse are endings for a Shepard that succumbs to indoctrination. Destroy is for Shepard who resisted long enough to end the Reapers. But everything happens. There is simply no solid evidence whatsoever for a dream. At best you could say some parts are hallucinatory, but there is no way it's a dream.

Modifié par The Twilight God, 06 septembre 2012 - 05:29 .


#600
Reyouka

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I'm horribly tempted to believe this, just because info on the MP DLC was leaked from an inside source. Then again, it's all wait and see. If Bioware does fix things, then I'll buy all their DLC's, but not before then. I haven't bought Leviathan, nor will I if things don't change.