883 réponses à ce sujet

[Eryri]

Soratoma wrote...

I really hope people who follow the IT get something out of it, for their sake, and if not that they can bury it and let it be, honestly I really think that would be a f*cking slap in the face if they had planned to make a dlc for the "Real" ending in the first place... and I doubt anyone would do that.... I understand the marketing aspects and milking the cash cow, but honestly it would be the worst stunt that any game developer, screen writer, etc. has pulled. And it would in my opinion make their credibility die more than with that what they offered us to start with.

Re the bolded - Capcom have already done something similar with a game called Asura's Wrath. I've not played it, but apparently the last chapter was sold separately as DLC. It was a bit controversial, but nowhere near to the level of ME.

As a poster called demersel pointed out on the IT thread, if EA did decide to do this, they have little to lose and much to gain. They already have a poor reputation, so holding back the "true ending" dlc won't hurt it much.

However, if they really were planning a "real life indoctrination" piece of performance art, then they might perhaps gain a reputation as creative risk takers.

[Kazalord2]

Merry Halloween and may the Easterbunny be gentle upon your soul !
Greetings from Serbia.

[ElSuperGecko]

Kazalord2 wrote...
Merry Halloween and may the Easterbunny be gentle upon your soul !
Greetings from Serbia.

I love you. 

[ElSuperGecko]

Eryri wrote...

Soratoma wrote...

I really hope people who follow the IT get something out of it, for their sake, and if not that they can bury it and let it be, honestly I really think that would be a f*cking slap in the face if they had planned to make a dlc for the "Real" ending in the first place... and I doubt anyone would do that.... I understand the marketing aspects and milking the cash cow, but honestly it would be the worst stunt that any game developer, screen writer, etc. has pulled. And it would in my opinion make their credibility die more than with that what they offered us to start with.

Re the bolded - Capcom have already done something similar with a game called Asura's Wrath. I've not played it, but apparently the last chapter was sold separately as DLC. It was a bit controversial, but nowhere near to the level of ME.

As a poster called demersel pointed out on the IT thread, if EA did decide to do this, they have little to lose and much to gain. They already have a poor reputation, so holding back the "true ending" dlc won't hurt it much.

However, if they really were planning a "real life indoctrination" piece of performance art, then they might perhaps gain a reputation as creative risk takers.

Capcom/Final Fantasy XIII-2

"Then, when the 'To be continued' ending for XIII-2 became commonly known, talk of a second sequel was renewed. Square Enix said in response that the ending was so that players would explore all the alternative endings to the game and keep them ready for the coming DLC levels. However, after the release of what was stated to be the final piece of DLC, officials at Square Enix announced that they would be releasing future Final Fantasy XIII-related content...."

[Ithurael]

You know something I never really got about IT, and those that support IT, is the desire for extra content after the game ends.

I mean I get IT as a valid interpretation, but why would bioware make additional content? ME3 ends shepards story, concludes the war with the reapers, and finishes the trilogy. In the literal version these happen in IT these do/do not happen. But why would bioware make yet another DLC for the ending?

That would be like making another movie for Inception to show Leo was really dreaming or that Duncan was really a replicant. Both interpretations (IT and literal) stand as valid, but no matter what the ending is the ending. So, I always ask myself "Yeah, you proved the ending was a dream, why do you want more content?"

[hiraeth]

Ithurael wrote...

You know something I never really got about IT, and those that support IT, is the desire for extra content after the game ends.

I mean I get IT as a valid interpretation, but why would bioware make additional content? ME3 ends shepards story, concludes the war with the reapers, and finishes the trilogy. In the literal version these happen in IT these do/do not happen. But why would bioware make yet another DLC for the ending?

That would be like making another movie for Inception to show Leo was really dreaming or that Duncan was really a replicant. Both interpretations (IT and literal) stand as valid, but no matter what the ending is the ending. So, I always ask myself "Yeah, you proved the ending was a dream, why do you want more content?"

Well, I think people want to see Bioware's interpretation of how Shepard can defeat the reapers if IT is true--to my knowledge, IT just states that everything after Shepard gets hit by the beam is an attempt to indoctrinate...if so, then we don't really ever see Shepard defeat the reapers per se, we just see him/her either succumb to or dodge indoctrination. What people want to see is what happens after Shepard wakes up, and how he/she rises from the ashes after getting hit by the beam to actually save the galaxy. It would be cool to see people's choices play out in a myriad of endings (e.g., myriad of sacrifices that you make or don't make, different ways to go about actually defeating the reapers, etc.) *after* Shepard beats indoctrination.

I can see where you're coming from, but I think from the IT perspective, it's cool that Shepard can beat indoctrination, but it sort of leaves the player thinking "Ok, but after I beat indoctrination...what happens?" And the post-Catalyst (either pre-EC or EC) content doesn't outrightly support indoctrination (obviously), so all of that content still seems as though it's part of Shepard's mind. When I look at the ending from an IT perspective, I'm still left wondering what the *real* ending to the reaper war looks like.

[katamuro]

IsaacShep wrote...

So to sum up. Clevernoob, a hardcore ITer desperate for IT DLC gets an information from another hardcore ITer who claims to have sources at Bioware that there's an IT DLC coming.

My reaction, it just seems an incredible coincidence. Plus I never really jumped on the whole Indoctrination Theory. It would be nice if that was the case but somehow  I just cant believe it is.

[Eryri]

Ithurael wrote...

You know something I never really got about IT, and those that support IT, is the desire for extra content after the game ends.

I mean I get IT as a valid interpretation, but why would bioware make additional content? ME3 ends shepards story, concludes the war with the reapers, and finishes the trilogy. In the literal version these happen in IT these do/do not happen. But why would bioware make yet another DLC for the ending?

That would be like making another movie for Inception to show Leo was really dreaming or that Duncan was really a replicant. Both interpretations (IT and literal) stand as valid, but no matter what the ending is the ending. So, I always ask myself "Yeah, you proved the ending was a dream, why do you want more content?"

Speaking personally, because I would find post-ending content far more interesting and fun than ancilliary, side-stuff like Omega, where we know that nothing we do will have much of a bearing on the story. Because even with the IT (which I support), the endings of the game out of the box are horribly unsatisfying on an emotional level, even with the EC. They are just plain dull. The nearest thing to a boss fight is making Shepard walk, veeeerrrryyyyy slooooowly down a corridor before literally talking someone to death. Compare that with the suicide mission of ME2 which was a fabulous experience. I include the, supposedly cheesy, human reaper boss fight in that - I found it good honest fun.

Even high ems destroy leaves Shepard lying in a pile of rubble, with the Reapers still alive and murdering thousands by the minute. That is a cliffhanger. It is not the ending to an epic trilogy. 

[Ithurael]

Eryri wrote...

Ithurael wrote...

You know something I never really got about IT, and those that support IT, is the desire for extra content after the game ends.

I mean I get IT as a valid interpretation, but why would bioware make additional content? ME3 ends shepards story, concludes the war with the reapers, and finishes the trilogy. In the literal version these happen in IT these do/do not happen. But why would bioware make yet another DLC for the ending?

That would be like making another movie for Inception to show Leo was really dreaming or that Duncan was really a replicant. Both interpretations (IT and literal) stand as valid, but no matter what the ending is the ending. So, I always ask myself "Yeah, you proved the ending was a dream, why do you want more content?"

Speaking personally, because I would find post-ending content far more interesting and fun than ancilliary, side-stuff like Omega, where we know that nothing we do will have much of a bearing on the story. Because even with the IT (which I support), the endings of the game out of the box are horribly unsatisfying on an emotional level, even with the EC. They are just plain dull. The nearest thing to a boss fight is making Shepard walk, veeeerrrryyyyy slooooowly down a corridor before literally talking someone to death. Compare that with the suicide mission of ME2 which was a fabulous experience. I include the, supposedly cheesy, human reaper boss fight in that - I found it good honest fun.

Even high ems destroy leaves Shepard lying in a pile of rubble, with the Reapers still alive and murdering thousands by the minute. That is a cliffhanger. It is not the ending to an epic trilogy. 

But in the end that - it seems - is what we have. One interpretation says A the other says B. But why would bioware capitalize on either? They are done with the endings.

I agree - many times over - that the ending is lackluster. but my only gripe with IT is that the interpretation ends on a cliffhanger to an amazing trilogy. In the end when having a choice between closure & resolution - but with nonesense vs no closure/cliffhanger - but with mindblowing revelation. I will inevitable choose the former over the latter.

IDK, I just feel like there is nothing else coming. BIoware gave the extended ending. Now they are moving onto pre ending DLC and are pleased with feedback with those who like the literal ending vs those who like the IT ending. But either way, they are done with the ending. At least, that is what I feel.

I am waiting till the end of the DLC cycle. Then I'm out.

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

Eryri wrote...

Ithurael wrote...

You know something I never really got about IT, and those that support IT, is the desire for extra content after the game ends.

I mean I get IT as a valid interpretation, but why would bioware make additional content? ME3 ends shepards story, concludes the war with the reapers, and finishes the trilogy. In the literal version these happen in IT these do/do not happen. But why would bioware make yet another DLC for the ending?

That would be like making another movie for Inception to show Leo was really dreaming or that Duncan was really a replicant. Both interpretations (IT and literal) stand as valid, but no matter what the ending is the ending. So, I always ask myself "Yeah, you proved the ending was a dream, why do you want more content?"

Speaking personally, because I would find post-ending content far more interesting and fun than ancilliary, side-stuff like Omega, where we know that nothing we do will have much of a bearing on the story. Because even with the IT (which I support), the endings of the game out of the box are horribly unsatisfying on an emotional level, even with the EC. They are just plain dull. The nearest thing to a boss fight is making Shepard walk, veeeerrrryyyyy slooooowly down a corridor before literally talking someone to death. Compare that with the suicide mission of ME2 which was a fabulous experience. I include the, supposedly cheesy, human reaper boss fight in that - I found it good honest fun.

Even high ems destroy leaves Shepard lying in a pile of rubble, with the Reapers still alive and murdering thousands by the minute. That is a cliffhanger. It is not the ending to an epic trilogy. 

What?  The Reapers aren't still alive.  That said, I'm still holding out for the "refusal victory" ending.  Or better yet, an ending that removes the starchild AND the stargazer scenes altogether (happy ending mod isn't a possibility for me, on console)!  Gone like space magic! 

[Massa FX]

IT is a way to cope with the reality that 1000's of hours of gaming concluded in a highly dissatisfactory manner.

Why poke fun or ridicule IT? No-one is forcing anyone to believe in it.

I am a fully vested IT shipper. And happy with my designation, thank you very much.

Modifié par Massa FX, 29 décembre 2012 - 07:25 .

[dorktainian]

i used to be a destroyer.... then a speech shep made in the refusal ending opened my eyes to the reality of the non-choices. Thats not to say I dont think IT has it's merits.... it has many.

still much better than the dross we were given.

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

There's something that I don't understand about the indoctrination theory. It's basically saying that everything that happened after Shepard got hit with the Reaper laser didn't happen. It was all a dream. Okay, but if you want to find out what really happens when Shepard wakes up, you need ending DLC. I'm cool with that.

But what I don't understand is that you can go into the IT thread, and some of those people act like "No, I don't want ending DLC". If that's true then what is the point of the IT? Do you WANT a cliffhanger? Are you going to use your imagination to make up an ending? Sorry, but I don't want to do that.

And besides all that, I don't believe Shepard was indoctrinated. He was just knocked out, and dreaming. When he wakes up, he'll regain his senses, continue the fight, and destroy the Reapers. Happily ever after with the love interest, retire from military life, and all that.

Modifié par Neverwinter_Knight77, 29 décembre 2012 - 08:07 .

[Eryri]

Neverwinter_Knight77 wrote...

Eryri wrote...

Even high ems destroy leaves Shepard lying in a pile of rubble, with the Reapers still alive and murdering thousands by the minute. That is a cliffhanger. It is not the ending to an epic trilogy. 

What?  The Reapers aren't still alive.  That said, I'm still holding out for the "refusal victory" ending.  Or better yet, an ending that removes the starchild AND the stargazer scenes altogether (happy ending mod isn't a possibility for me, on console)!  Gone like space magic! 

I meant in terms of the full hallucination version of IT. If Shepard really is lying unconcious in London, then he never truly went to the citadel and activated the crucible. So the Reapers haven't been defeated yet, even if you chose destroy. "Shooting the Tube" (which sounds like some sort of euphemism) is merely a symbolic affirmation of Shepard's continuing desire to destroy the Reapers. 

Other versions of IT have a mix of reality and hallucination. Shepard really does board the citadel, but the Reapers alter his perceptions to try to steer him away from destroying them. I don't like those versions quite so much though, because they still mean that the nonsense that is synthesis, can actually happen in the ME universe. I hate that idea. I don't want anything that ridiculous to even be a possibility in the world of ME.

Neverwinter_Knight77 wrote...

But what I don't understand is that you can go into the IT thread, and some of those people act like "No, I don't want ending DLC". If that's true then what is the point of the IT? Do you WANT a cliffhanger? Are you going to use your imagination to make up an ending? Sorry, but I don't want to do that.

Some IT supporters feel that way, but not all. I suppose those that do feel that giving a definitive answer would be too much like dumbing down and hand-holding the audience. I guess they are imaginative enough to appreciate inconclusive endings, because they can easily add their own interpretation of what happens next.

I'm not one of them however. I'm simply not imaginative enough. One of my main reasons for supporting IT is because I do want to see a better ending, on screen.

Modifié par Eryri, 29 décembre 2012 - 08:42 .

[jojon2se]

Neverwinter_Knight77 wrote...

There's something that I don't understand about the indoctrination theory. It's basically saying that everything that happened after Shepard got hit with the Reaper laser didn't happen. It was all a dream. Okay, but if you want to find out what really happens when Shepard wakes up, you need ending DLC. I'm cool with that.

But what I don't understand is that you can go into the IT thread, and some of those people act like "No, I don't want ending DLC". If that's true then what is the point of the IT? Do you WANT a cliffhanger? Are you going to use your imagination to make up an ending? Sorry, but I don't want to do that.

Yes, some do. These are people who love mystery and ambiguity and David Lynch.
Nothing wrong with that - we all have our different tastes and ideas of when and where a certain flavour is at its best.

Neverwinter_Knight77 wrote...
And besides all that, I don't believe Shepard was indoctrinated. He was just knocked out, and dreaming. When he wakes up, he'll regain his senses, continue the fight, and destroy the Reapers. Happily ever after with the love interest, retire from military life, and all that.

Well, not indoctrinated -- in the process of indoctrination, with the "dream" a mental battle that can end in unwittingly embracing indoctrination -- much more than "a dream", in other words; An intermediate boss battle, of logic, instead of bullets.

Modifié par jojon2se, 29 décembre 2012 - 08:46 .

[Eryri]

jojon2se wrote...

Well, not indoctrinated -- in the process of indoctrination, with the "dream" a mental battle that can end in unwittingly embracing indoctrination -- much more than "a dream", in other words; An intermediate boss battle, of logic, instead of bullets.

Exactly, thank you for putting that better than I did. A battle in the centre of the mind, essentially, that determines whether Shepard remains Shepard, or becomes a pawn of the Reapers.

[Massa FX]

Eryri wrote...

jojon2se wrote...

Well, not indoctrinated -- in the process of indoctrination, with the "dream" a mental battle that can end in unwittingly embracing indoctrination -- much more than "a dream", in other words; An intermediate boss battle, of logic, instead of bullets.

Exactly, thank you for putting that better than I did. A battle in the centre of the mind, essentially, that determines whether Shepard remains Shepard, or becomes a pawn of the Reapers.

To me there is little distinction between all the theories. Shepards behavior after the beam hit is odd and wrong. Whether indoctrinated or dreaming or in a N7 simulation exercise or in process of being indoctrinated or in pergatory after being spaced or in hell.... the Shepard that players thought they knew was lost after the beam of armor destruction (but not death) appeared to strike a silly running towards the light Shepard.

So all of us are correct with whatever theory we choose to believe in. We may never have an answer from Bioware on what the heck happened and why. 

[Hey]

Massa FX wrote...

Eryri wrote...

jojon2se wrote...

Well, not indoctrinated -- in the process of indoctrination, with the "dream" a mental battle that can end in unwittingly embracing indoctrination -- much more than "a dream", in other words; An intermediate boss battle, of logic, instead of bullets.

Exactly, thank you for putting that better than I did. A battle in the centre of the mind, essentially, that determines whether Shepard remains Shepard, or becomes a pawn of the Reapers.

To me there is little distinction between all the theories. Shepards behavior after the beam hit is odd and wrong. Whether indoctrinated or dreaming or in a N7 simulation exercise or in process of being indoctrinated or in pergatory after being spaced or in hell.... the Shepard that players thought they knew was lost after the beam of armor destruction (but not death) appeared to strike a silly running towards the light Shepard.

So all of us are correct with whatever theory we choose to believe in. We may never have an answer from Bioware on what the heck happened and why. 

u are smart and stuff..

[Nykara]

Norlond wrote...

I'll just quote myself

Norlond wrote...

[...] to me this Project X thingy just seems so... unlikely? A dream come true? Waaay to good to be true? Something like that.
I really want it to be true, but I heavily doubt this information [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/pouty.png[/smilie]

Yeah this.

[liggy002]

Neverwinter_Knight77 wrote...

There's something that I don't understand about the indoctrination theory. It's basically saying that everything that happened after Shepard got hit with the Reaper laser didn't happen. It was all a dream. Okay, but if you want to find out what really happens when Shepard wakes up, you need ending DLC. I'm cool with that.

But what I don't understand is that you can go into the IT thread, and some of those people act like "No, I don't want ending DLC". If that's true then what is the point of the IT? Do you WANT a cliffhanger? Are you going to use your imagination to make up an ending? Sorry, but I don't want to do that.

And besides all that, I don't believe Shepard was indoctrinated. He was just knocked out, and dreaming. When he wakes up, he'll regain his senses, continue the fight, and destroy the Reapers. Happily ever after with the love interest, retire from military life, and all that.

I agree.  The idea that you need to head canon your ending if you are a believer in the IT is utterly absurd.  The IT deserves better.  It deserves a new ending.

[Kulbelbolka]

Actually we don't know what trully happened after laser hitting Shepard.

Here is one of my interpretation:
Shepard failed at activation of Crucible and war continues (which represents by multiplayer mode, where players still beats all enemy forces for 9 month already).

Nobody knows what happened with Shepard, because squad was KIA and his body wasn't ever found. Maybe he is dead or maybe he is in some kind of stasis (like Gordon Freeman), but I think that Reapers have stolen his body for some purposes. It was one of the main goal for Harbinger - take control over Shepard.

So final DLC probably won't be expansion of actual game. I think it would be epilogue that will connect ME3 with next ME game, give us some ideaы about new protagonist and situation in universe. Maybe one of our goal would be find Shepard whose mind was touched by Reapers, but he stayed alive after that, And maybe all this words of Bioware about end of Shepard story is about his story as protagonist, because after what happened with him he is not in condition.

But everyone know that last DLC would be «late goodbye» with cheesy emotional moments, final «I love you»'s and all that stuff for the most crazy fans.

[Seboist]

Massa FX wrote...

IT is a way to cope with the reality that 1000's of hours of gaming concluded in a highly dissatisfactory manner.

Why poke fun or ridicule IT? No-one is forcing anyone to believe in it.

I am a fully vested IT shipper. And happy with my designation, thank you very much.

Because IT is glorified buyer's remorse and post-purchase rationalization but worse of all, it's apologetics for hack writing and game design in not only ME3 but ME2 as well.

[Nykara]

Seboist wrote...

Massa FX wrote...

IT is a way to cope with the reality that 1000's of hours of gaming concluded in a highly dissatisfactory manner.

Why poke fun or ridicule IT? No-one is forcing anyone to believe in it.

I am a fully vested IT shipper. And happy with my designation, thank you very much.

Because IT is glorified buyer's remorse and post-purchase rationalization but worse of all, it's apologetics for hack writing and game design in not only ME3 but ME2 as well.

I really don't get peoples problem with ME2 at all. I really enjoyed it. I think that they should have extended some of the ME2 plot in to ME3 which they didn't do. There was some great idea's in #2 that really should have gone further. Not to mention character's that totally got shafted and I don't just mean romances either. My Femshep was always Kaiden's but I loved Jack's character I found her really interesting and would have loved her on the crew in 3. Or at least to have had more of an involvement in it. I also really feel sorry for the Thane shippers.

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

There were some things that I didn't like about ME2 (like how they presented Cerberus as "nice folks" who are trustworthy, and made them appear to be much better funded than they looked in ME1), but at least it had the best DLC in the series (Bring Down The Sky is good too, for ME1). Stopping the Collectors felt like filler when we should have been preparing for full-scale war with the Reapers... but overall I loved ME2.

[hiraeth]

Nykara wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Massa FX wrote...

IT is a way to cope with the reality that 1000's of hours of gaming concluded in a highly dissatisfactory manner.

Why poke fun or ridicule IT? No-one is forcing anyone to believe in it.

I am a fully vested IT shipper. And happy with my designation, thank you very much.

Because IT is glorified buyer's remorse and post-purchase rationalization but worse of all, it's apologetics for hack writing and game design in not only ME3 but ME2 as well.

I really don't get peoples problem with ME2 at all. I really enjoyed it. I think that they should have extended some of the ME2 plot in to ME3 which they didn't do. There was some great idea's in #2 that really should have gone further. Not to mention character's that totally got shafted and I don't just mean romances either. My Femshep was always Kaiden's but I loved Jack's character I found her really interesting and would have loved her on the crew in 3. Or at least to have had more of an involvement in it. I also really feel sorry for the Thane shippers.

+1

also, i support everything in your sig!