317 réponses à ce sujet

[InvincibleHero]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

The problem was the ROTFLMAO Retcon of the Council, all Scientists, Engineers, Metallurgists, etc., immediately after ME1 ended whose IQs dropped to Chimpanzee levels and couldn't tell the difference between Sovereign and the Geth debris. "Ah, yes, 'reapers'. We've dismissed that myth." And even the idea that none of your team, including your prothean expert would even think of not turning their omnitool on to record the conversation with Vigil, I mean how many megabytes would that take up? maybe 5MB at most? I think the thing has more than sufficient memory for audio and video. Or even that Shepard didn't bother to record it. For f*** sake it was a goddam PROTHEAN VI that was still functioning!!!!

No, that was just an excuse used to hang Shepard out to dry for ME2, and set up everything for the big fail.

It's such bull**** bad writing I just can't take the story line as a serious story after that. The Council becomes the comic relief in the story. Shepard is a bad ass action hero. If you play this as a serious goody two shoes paragon who is helping everyone out you're not doing it right. This is a serious renegon type. It's fun time. This is Arnold time whether you're femShep or manShep.

You get to ME3 you try to have fun despite the dreams about vent boy. The galaxy is being invaded by pests and Shepard is taking out the trash.

Then the stupid ending comes up. The last 10 minutes.... OMG.... this one does not sacrifice to become a god. This one does not sacrifice to make everyone green. This one sends the reapers to Hell. If there was a way to do it without shooting a goddam red tube all the better.

That is what they said publicly. Do you think if any of our world governements knew an alien invasion was coming and we could do nothing about it that they would tell us and incite panic. The whole economy would go crashing down. Why work when you are going to die in 2 weeks right? So no one to work at electric plants or police to protect anyone. You won't be able to get food from stores or pizza hut either.  Why wouldn't people just do what they wanted right?

So they created the fiction it was a geth dreadnaught to save themselves such panic. They did reinstate Shepard so thought there was some merit or they would just sweep him under the rug. The thing is they didn't know when or if it would ever happen. perhpas they thought it would take many years because of Shepard's heroics.

Well the problem is they made an ending that gave us choices like the other game. They should have just ended it as they wanted without any player input. The cries would have been even more outspoken. I made a thread of that theme months ago.

[plfranke]

I think the main problem in this game is the inconsistency it has in so many areas, especially with the Reapers. On Rannoch, a Destroyer can't even kill a single human, but then we hear from people that Palaven is being decimated. Then on Earth, apparently everyone is getting beaten up so bad we have to pretty much solo everything. One minute a Reaper can be defeated with a simple missle, the next they're tearing through our forces like butter. I don't think we were meant to be able to defeat the Reapers conventionally, and while the writers did a decent job of conveying it directly (characters telling you, you can't defeat them conventionally non stop) they did a pretty poor job of doing so indirectly (the Rannoch Reaper, among other things).

[LanceSolous13]

Ranger1337 wrote...

In Mass Effect 1, nearly the entire Alliance fleet present at the Citadel was wiped out by Sovereign, a single Reaper. How do you think the rest of the galaxy will fair against billions of those? If you do the Math, Sovereign destroyed around 8-10 Alliance ships (the ones mentioned by Shepard to Khalisah Al-Jilani in Mass Effect 2) . So if there were lets say 10 billion Reapers in total, the galactic fleet would have suffered 100 billion losses .

Also, there may be several cycles before the humans where the galaxy might have also attempted to unite themselves against the Reapers without the Crucible at the time. But what happened? They failed. What makes you so sure that they did not do what Shepard has done in the trilogy? Reinforcing the Citadel, Uniting Ships, War Assets, Upgrading Weapons, Studying Reaper Tech, even an ancient Cerberus organisation? That's the catch. You never know if someone like Shepard did all these before in previous cycles (or even better) but they failed ultimately.

And everyone did not just "roll over and give up". It's shown throughout the game. Look at the Quarian fleets, look at Palaven, look at Sur'Kesh and Thessia . They all sustained devastating losses during the Reaper war. Not to mention how the Qwib-Qwib went down fighting to destroy one AA gun on Rannoch. The fact is, the different races were fighting to the death. It's just shown off-screen. It all happens while you eat Turkey Sandwiches with Kaidan on the Citadel.

First off, C-Sec had already been invaded and attacked by the Geth BEFORE Sovrign appeared. Saren took out most of what was protecting the Citadel as to allow Sovrign access. This was the enitre point to Saren and his Geth. Most of the Citadel fleet was taken out by the Geth Heratics. Which, may I remind you, are maybe 1 or 2% of the Geth Population. Having the entire Geth fleet would be a huge advantage here.

Moving down, The previous cycles, including the Protheans, were invaded through a surprise attack using the Citadel Relay for the Reapers to invade and shut down the Relays, isolating everyone and leaving no form of govenment period. Even with this giant disadvantage, The Protheans fought on for centuries and probably could have won. However, thanks to the Protheans, We have an advantage of not being isolated and maintaining our govenment structure during their invasion. Also, The Reapers are having to attack head on instead of a sneak attack like they usually do.

If it happens off screen, Its not good writing. End of story.

[AlanC9]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
Really? If (pre-EC) Bio really meant us to think that the relays destroyed every system with a relay, where did you figure the Normandy crashed?

And are you actually saying you believed that was what happened pre-EC? Nobody's been admitting that lately.

I quoted Mac Walters from his interview in February 2012 where he remarked about the state of the galaxy when asked about post ending DLC and when on about there's no point. "It's a wasteland."

That was the original intent. 10,000 year dark age. The Normandy crash landed on some planet Gilligan in some goddess knows where and everyone died eventually because insufficient numbers on the Normandy to sustain a population. This was the sequel.

I was specifically asking about novas. The wasteland theory doesn't really match what we see on-screen pre-EC, but the nova theory is outright contradicted.

Modifié par AlanC9, 25 août 2012 - 04:41 .

[dweller]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

Ranger1337 wrote...

In Mass Effect 1, nearly the entire Alliance fleet present at the Citadel was wiped out by Sovereign, a single Reaper. How do you think the rest of the galaxy will fair against billions of those? If you do the Math, Sovereign destroyed around 8-10 Alliance ships (the ones mentioned by Shepard to Khalisah Al-Jilani in Mass Effect 2) . So if there were lets say 10 billion Reapers in total, the galactic fleet would have suffered 100 billion losses .

Also, there may be several cycles before the humans where the galaxy might have also attempted to unite themselves against the Reapers without the Crucible at the time. But what happened? They failed. What makes you so sure that they did not do what Shepard has done in the trilogy? Reinforcing the Citadel, Uniting Ships, War Assets, Upgrading Weapons, Studying Reaper Tech, even an ancient Cerberus organisation? That's the catch. You never know if someone like Shepard did all these before in previous cycles (or even better) but they failed ultimately.

And everyone did not just "roll over and give up". It's shown throughout the game. Look at the Quarian fleets, look at Palaven, look at Sur'Kesh and Thessia . They all sustained devastating losses during the Reaper war. Not to mention how the Qwib-Qwib went down fighting to destroy one AA gun on Rannoch. The fact is, the different races were fighting to the death. It's just shown off-screen. It all happens while you eat Turkey Sandwiches with Kaidan on the Citadel.

First off, C-Sec had already been invaded and attacked by the Geth BEFORE Sovrign appeared. Saren took out most of what was protecting the Citadel as to allow Sovrign access. This was the enitre point to Saren and his Geth. Most of the Citadel fleet was taken out by the Geth Heratics. Which, may I remind you, are maybe 1 or 2% of the Geth Population. Having the entire Geth fleet would be a huge advantage here.

Moving down, The previous cycles, including the Protheans, were invaded through a surprise attack using the Citadel Relay for the Reapers to invade and shut down the Relays, isolating everyone and leaving no form of govenment period. Even with this giant disadvantage, The Protheans fought on for centuries and probably could have won. However, thanks to the Protheans, We have an advantage of not being isolated and maintaining our govenment structure during their invasion. Also, The Reapers are having to attack head on instead of a sneak attack like they usually do.

If it happens off screen, Its not good writing. End of story.

Well if you want "show don't tell", I think the cutscene where sovereign is destroying the alliance ships while docked on the citadel tower shows how impossible it is to defeat them conventionally. He was annihilating the entire Alliance fleet until his shields dropped because Shepard killed Saren's husk form. I even got the impression the fleet would be destroyed completely were it not for Shepard's intervention.

There's your show don't tell. Now tell me how you'd destroy thousands of those ships.

[inversevideo]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Choose the refuse ending and you have your answer.

To some other points

1. How soon people forget ILos relay was one way only. So a functioning Earth relay would still send it to its actual destination.

2. The protheans built said relay. The protheans could never master the crucible yet this cycle did. That means they have enough tech no how to replicate what they did.

3. Seriously look at your collection of forces just a few dreadnaughts and bits and pieces of the whole armadas of every major race that was already mostly defeated. Their fleets are left defending what little they have left with what they have left. You do not have these ships gifted to Hackett and Shepard. Other than the quarians ships held together with duct tape and bailing wire there is no substantial number. The geth it is questionable what use they'd be in any protracted battle anyways. They could be against you since they have reaper code.

4. The purpose of that fleet was to protect the crucible period. There isn't enough to engage the reapers on any front and win. If the reapers consolidated their forces then they would rofl stomp the remaining forces of the allies.

The Protheans did not build the relays the Reapers did.
I doubt that all the remaining ships in the galaxy headed to Earth, but your point is taken.
If the number of Reapers exceeds or even matches the number of the combined fleets of the galaxy, then the Reapers cannot be beaten by going straight at them. Hackett sacrificed a fleet to cover the retreat of two others.

Which brings us to refuse. I don't understand how the Reapers did not suffer heavy casualties in a refuse ending. I would expect the organics to adopt a'scorched earth' policy and collapse a system's relay, whenever it became obvious the system was lost. Or at least try. The allies should already have prepared for this contingency, in the event the crucible did not payoff or was destroyed.

Why would the allies not do asteroid drops on Reaper landing sites and bases? If your planet is lost, your population being slaughtered, turned to husk or goo, put them out of their misery and take as many of the enemy with you as is possible. Leave very little to 'harvest'.

If I am going 'out', I am going to do my best to hurt you. I will not go gently.

[dweller]

inversevideo wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

Choose the refuse ending and you have your answer.

To some other points

1. How soon people forget ILos relay was one way only. So a functioning Earth relay would still send it to its actual destination.

2. The protheans built said relay. The protheans could never master the crucible yet this cycle did. That means they have enough tech no how to replicate what they did.

3. Seriously look at your collection of forces just a few dreadnaughts and bits and pieces of the whole armadas of every major race that was already mostly defeated. Their fleets are left defending what little they have left with what they have left. You do not have these ships gifted to Hackett and Shepard. Other than the quarians ships held together with duct tape and bailing wire there is no substantial number. The geth it is questionable what use they'd be in any protracted battle anyways. They could be against you since they have reaper code.

4. The purpose of that fleet was to protect the crucible period. There isn't enough to engage the reapers on any front and win. If the reapers consolidated their forces then they would rofl stomp the remaining forces of the allies.

The Protheans did not build the relays the Reapers did.
I doubt that all the remaining ships in the galaxy headed to Earth, but your point is taken.
If the number of Reapers exceeds or even matches the number of the combined fleets of the galaxy, then the Reapers cannot be beaten by going straight at them. Hackett sacrificed a fleet to cover the retreat of two others.

Which brings us to refuse. I don't understand how the Reapers did not suffer heavy casualties in a refuse ending. I would expect the organics to adopt a'scorched earth' policy and collapse a system's relay, whenever it became obvious the system was lost. Or at least try. The allies should already have prepared for this contingency, in the event the crucible did not payoff or was destroyed.

Why would the allies not do asteroid drops on Reaper landing sites and bases? If your planet is lost, your population being slaughtered, turned to husk or goo, put them out of their misery and take as many of the enemy with you as is possible. Leave very little to 'harvest'.

If I am going 'out', I am going to do my best to hurt you. I will not go gently.

He's referring to the conduit, read the post more carefully...

Modifié par dweller, 25 août 2012 - 04:21 .

[LanceSolous13]

dweller wrote...

Well if you want "show don't tell", I think the cutscene where sovereign is destroying the alliance ships while docked on the citadel tower shows how impossible it is to defeat them conventionally. He was annihilating the entire Alliance fleet until his shields dropped because Shepard killed Saren's husk form. I even got the impression the fleet would be destroyed completely were it not for Shepard's intervention.

There's your show don't tell. Now tell me how you'd destroy thousands of those ships.

Bioware has said several times that there was a lack of comunication between the Cutscene people and the writing team during ME1. Sovrign was accidentally depicted as overpowered during the end game which is a mistake.

[InvincibleHero]

inversevideo wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

Choose the refuse ending and you have your answer.

To some other points

1. How soon people forget ILos relay was one way only. So a functioning Earth relay would still send it to its actual destination.

2. The protheans built said relay. The protheans could never master the crucible yet this cycle did. That means they have enough tech no how to replicate what they did.

3. Seriously look at your collection of forces just a few dreadnaughts and bits and pieces of the whole armadas of every major race that was already mostly defeated. Their fleets are left defending what little they have left with what they have left. You do not have these ships gifted to Hackett and Shepard. Other than the quarians ships held together with duct tape and bailing wire there is no substantial number. The geth it is questionable what use they'd be in any protracted battle anyways. They could be against you since they have reaper code.

4. The purpose of that fleet was to protect the crucible period. There isn't enough to engage the reapers on any front and win. If the reapers consolidated their forces then they would rofl stomp the remaining forces of the allies.

The Protheans did not build the relays the Reapers did.
I doubt that all the remaining ships in the galaxy headed to Earth, but your point is taken.
If the number of Reapers exceeds or even matches the number of the combined fleets of the galaxy, then the Reapers cannot be beaten by going straight at them. Hackett sacrificed a fleet to cover the retreat of two others.

Which brings us to refuse. I don't understand how the Reapers did not suffer heavy casualties in a refuse ending. I would expect the organics to adopt a'scorched earth' policy and collapse a system's relay, whenever it became obvious the system was lost. Or at least try. The allies should already have prepared for this contingency, in the event the crucible did not payoff or was destroyed.

Why would the allies not do asteroid drops on Reaper landing sites and bases? If your planet is lost, your population being slaughtered, turned to husk or goo, put them out of their misery and take as many of the enemy with you as is possible. Leave very little to 'harvest'.

If I am going 'out', I am going to do my best to hurt you. I will not go gently.

Did you play Mass effect (the first game)? On ILos the protheans did indeed build their own relay that lead to the citadel. It was on the planet and had a limited power supply and was one way no return.

Why would that be so. It was a final all or nothing gambit. Yeah it would have taken awhile to harvest everyone but the fight would have been over. How can you tell how many losses there was in refuse anyway? Too few to have won but I am sure some damage was inflicted.

Wow you would incinerate Earth?! The whole idea is to win and have something to build off of. That seems wasteful to me. I could not pull the trigger to do that. It seems like throwing in the towel and murdering your own.

[Jayleia]

The Twilight God wrote...

Jayleia wrote...

Starkid:  We brought you up to use this machine, you can use it to destroy us if you want, but it will kill all synthetics, and even you are part synthetic.

Shepard: How about you just stop shooting us and let us shoot you?

Starkid: NO!  If you want to destroy us, you do it the way WE tell you to, or we harvest you.

Shepard:  That's so stupid I don't know where to begin...

Holo-Reaper:  SO BE IT.

So, yes, we were allowed to have our galaxy back in destroy.

It did not bring him up there. In low EMs situations it asks him why he is even there.

You are disabling whatever is preventing it from firing. The Crucible would have done the same thing automatically if the Reapers hadn't set up a device to stop it from firing.

How can the Crucible doing what it was made to do killing them in the way they tell you? There is no way except orange explosion that kills all synthetics. Nothing the Kid does effects that fact.

And in Low EMS, someone who has control of the Citadel's secret areas that no organic goes to hits the Up button on the Rapture-vator.  The only one who would be doing that would be...the Catalyst...and then he's surprised that Shepard is there?

Catalyst (aka The Reapers), tells us we can blow them up and how...but the way we're able to do that would kill ALL synthetics.  The Kid tells us how to kill him, but if we don't choose one of HIS choices he gets pissy and continues reaping.

[inversevideo]

InvincibleHero wrote...

inversevideo wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

Choose the refuse ending and you have your answer.

To some other points

1. How soon people forget ILos relay was one way only. So a functioning Earth relay would still send it to its actual destination.

2. The protheans built said relay. The protheans could never master the crucible yet this cycle did. That means they have enough tech no how to replicate what they did.

3. Seriously look at your collection of forces just a few dreadnaughts and bits and pieces of the whole armadas of every major race that was already mostly defeated. Their fleets are left defending what little they have left with what they have left. You do not have these ships gifted to Hackett and Shepard. Other than the quarians ships held together with duct tape and bailing wire there is no substantial number. The geth it is questionable what use they'd be in any protracted battle anyways. They could be against you since they have reaper code.

4. The purpose of that fleet was to protect the crucible period. There isn't enough to engage the reapers on any front and win. If the reapers consolidated their forces then they would rofl stomp the remaining forces of the allies.

The Protheans did not build the relays the Reapers did.
I doubt that all the remaining ships in the galaxy headed to Earth, but your point is taken.
If the number of Reapers exceeds or even matches the number of the combined fleets of the galaxy, then the Reapers cannot be beaten by going straight at them. Hackett sacrificed a fleet to cover the retreat of two others.

Which brings us to refuse. I don't understand how the Reapers did not suffer heavy casualties in a refuse ending. I would expect the organics to adopt a'scorched earth' policy and collapse a system's relay, whenever it became obvious the system was lost. Or at least try. The allies should already have prepared for this contingency, in the event the crucible did not payoff or was destroyed.

Why would the allies not do asteroid drops on Reaper landing sites and bases? If your planet is lost, your population being slaughtered, turned to husk or goo, put them out of their misery and take as many of the enemy with you as is possible. Leave very little to 'harvest'.

If I am going 'out', I am going to do my best to hurt you. I will not go gently.

Did you play Mass effect (the first game)? On ILos the protheans did indeed build their own relay that lead to the citadel. It was on the planet and had a limited power supply and was one way no return.

Why would that be so. It was a final all or nothing gambit. Yeah it would have taken awhile to harvest everyone but the fight would have been over. How can you tell how many losses there was in refuse anyway? Too few to have won but I am sure some damage was inflicted.

Wow you would incinerate Earth?! The whole idea is to win and have something to build off of. That seems wasteful to me. I could not pull the trigger to do that. It seems like throwing in the towel and murdering your own.

Yes. If all was lost, and the population only had huskification or death by gooification, you bet. I start pitching asteroids, take out as many Reapers as possible. The very space around Earth would be a bad place to be.
I burn everything and take out the Charon relay if possible, destroying more Reapers and trapping the rest.

[AlanC9]

inversevideo wrote...
I don't understand how the Reapers did not suffer heavy casualties in a refuse ending. I would expect the organics to adopt a'scorched earth' policy and collapse a system's relay, whenever it became obvious the system was lost. Or at least try. The allies should already have prepared for this contingency, in the event the crucible did not payoff or was destroyed.

The Reapers very well might have suffered heavy casualties in Refuse. This is consistent with Stargazer 2's scene. which is all the evidence we've got about the next cycle.


Not sure about the asteroid pitching, though. They're kind of hard to hide. How about nukes in all population centers?

Modifié par AlanC9, 25 août 2012 - 04:47 .

[AresKeith]

AlanC9 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
Really? If (pre-EC) Bio really meant us to think that the relays destroyed every system with a relay, where did you figure the Normandy crashed?

And are you actually saying you believed that was what happened pre-EC? Nobody's been admitting that lately.

I quoted Mac Walters from his interview in February 2012 where he remarked about the state of the galaxy when asked about post ending DLC and when on about there's no point. "It's a wasteland."

That was the original intent. 10,000 year dark age. The Normandy crash landed on some planet Gilligan in some goddess knows where and everyone died eventually because insufficient numbers on the Normandy to sustain a population. This was the sequel.

I was specifically asking about novas. The wasteland theory doesn't really match what we see on-screen pre-EC, but the nova theory is outright contradicted.

that fact that the relays blew up in endings pre-EC shows that Mac intended for it to be a Wasteland

[inversevideo]

AlanC9 wrote...

inversevideo wrote...
I don't understand how the Reapers did not suffer heavy casualties in a refuse ending. I would expect the organics to adopt a'scorched earth' policy and collapse a system's relay, whenever it became obvious the system was lost. Or at least try. The allies should already have prepared for this contingency, in the event the crucible did not payoff or was destroyed.

The Reapers very well might have suffered heavy casualties in Refuse. This is consistent with Stargazer 2's scene. which is all the evidence we've got about the next cycle.


Not sure about the asteroid pitching, though. They're kind of hard to hide. How about nukes in all population centers?

No. Apparently it is easy to use asteroids as kinetic bombs. The Turians did it, during the first contact war, over Shangxi, Balak aimed one at Terra-Nova, and Dr. Kenson strapped used engines, from Omega salvage, onto a planetoid, which Shepard used to take out a Mass Relay. There was a report, from Anderson or Hackett, that the Reapers took out Earths nukes. Population centers are not a primary military target unless there are concentrations of Reapers there. If the planet is lost, and you don't have a way to save the populace from slow horrible death, then they are lost. My goal is to take out or cripple the enemy.

Modifié par inversevideo, 25 août 2012 - 04:59 .

[Han Shot First]

Conventional victory simply wasn't possible.

The Reapers possessed too great a technological advantage for the civilizations of the galaxy to have triumphed without the use of a superweapon. The civilizations of the galaxy may have been able to offset the Reapers qualitative superiority, if they possessed a great numerical advantage. From all indications however, they did not. In fact we see more Reaper dreadnoughts in a single cutscene in ME2 than the four Council races combined could field. To make matters worse, the Reapers do not have supply lines and the galactic economy was being strained to the breaking point. The galaxy had exactly one year to defeat the Reapers, after which the galactic economy would have completely collapsed and every civilization of the galaxy would have joined the ranks of the destroyed who came before them.

[inversevideo]

Han Shot First wrote...

Conventional victory simply wasn't possible.

The Reapers possessed too great a technological advantage for the civilizations of the galaxy to have triumphed without the use of a superweapon. The civilizations of the galaxy may have been able to offset the Reapers qualitative superiority, if they possessed a great numerical advantage. From all indications however, they did not. In fact we see more Reaper dreadnoughts in a single cutscene in ME2 than the four Council races combined could field. To make matters worse, the Reapers do not have supply lines and the galactic economy was being strained to the breaking point. The galaxy had exactly one year to defeat the Reapers, after which the galactic economy would have completely collapsed and every civilization of the galaxy would have joined the ranks of the destroyed who came before them.

They have a weakness, they need to harvest us. If they gain a foothold, in a system, and it is apparent that system is lost, burn everything and collapse the relay. At least try. Maybe, if you deny the Reapers the resources they need, they go to bed hungry. And without the resources necessary to build replacements for the resources lost.

[Han Shot First]

inversevideo wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Conventional victory simply wasn't possible.

The Reapers possessed too great a technological advantage for the civilizations of the galaxy to have triumphed without the use of a superweapon. The civilizations of the galaxy may have been able to offset the Reapers qualitative superiority, if they possessed a great numerical advantage. From all indications however, they did not. In fact we see more Reaper dreadnoughts in a single cutscene in ME2 than the four Council races combined could field. To make matters worse, the Reapers do not have supply lines and the galactic economy was being strained to the breaking point. The galaxy had exactly one year to defeat the Reapers, after which the galactic economy would have completely collapsed and every civilization of the galaxy would have joined the ranks of the destroyed who came before them.

They have a weakness, they need to harvest us. If they gain a foothold, in a system, and it is apparent that system is lost, burn everything and collapse the relay. At least try. Maybe, if you deny the Reapers the resources they need, they go to bed hungry. And without the resources necessary to build replacements for the resources lost.

That is actuallly covered by the codex. The Reapers' propulsion systems are so far advanced that they don't seem to work by fuel consumption. Unlike every other faction in the universe, the Reapers don't consume many resources. (hence no supply lines)

The only resource they consume are people, to create new Reapers. While torching worlds denies them the ability to produce those new Reapers, it also does more damage to the civilizations of the galaxy than it does the Reapers. Each world that gets annihilated would represent another steep loss in population, not to mention the loss of all the economic resources of that lost planet.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

InvincibleHero wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

The problem was the ROTFLMAO Retcon of the Council, all Scientists, Engineers, Metallurgists, etc., immediately after ME1 ended whose IQs dropped to Chimpanzee levels and couldn't tell the difference between Sovereign and the Geth debris. "Ah, yes, 'reapers'. We've dismissed that myth." And even the idea that none of your team, including your prothean expert would even think of not turning their omnitool on to record the conversation with Vigil, I mean how many megabytes would that take up? maybe 5MB at most? I think the thing has more than sufficient memory for audio and video. Or even that Shepard didn't bother to record it. For f*** sake it was a goddam PROTHEAN VI that was still functioning!!!!

No, that was just an excuse used to hang Shepard out to dry for ME2, and set up everything for the big fail.

It's such bull**** bad writing I just can't take the story line as a serious story after that. The Council becomes the comic relief in the story. Shepard is a bad ass action hero. If you play this as a serious goody two shoes paragon who is helping everyone out you're not doing it right. This is a serious renegon type. It's fun time. This is Arnold time whether you're femShep or manShep.

You get to ME3 you try to have fun despite the dreams about vent boy. The galaxy is being invaded by pests and Shepard is taking out the trash.

Then the stupid ending comes up. The last 10 minutes.... OMG.... this one does not sacrifice to become a god. This one does not sacrifice to make everyone green. This one sends the reapers to Hell. If there was a way to do it without shooting a goddam red tube all the better.

That is what they said publicly. Do you think if any of our world governements knew an alien invasion was coming and we could do nothing about it that they would tell us and incite panic. The whole economy would go crashing down. Why work when you are going to die in 2 weeks right? So no one to work at electric plants or police to protect anyone. You won't be able to get food from stores or pizza hut either.  Why wouldn't people just do what they wanted right?

So they created the fiction it was a geth dreadnaught to save themselves such panic. They did reinstate Shepard so thought there was some merit or they would just sweep him under the rug. The thing is they didn't know when or if it would ever happen. perhpas they thought it would take many years because of Shepard's heroics.

Well the problem is they made an ending that gave us choices like the other game. They should have just ended it as they wanted without any player input. The cries would have been even more outspoken. I made a thread of that theme months ago.

1. Shepard was a Council Spectre ffs. She had the clearance. And still even when she was no longer associated with Cerberus my ROTFLMAO Chimpanzee IQ of the Council, Scientists, etc. plays out because no did anything but sit on their ****ing thumbs for three years. They did absolutely nothing to prepare for the reaper invasion, so don't give me this: "That's what they told the public" bull****, because that is bull**** and you know it. Shepard isn't the public, and neither is Anderson.

It is just a plot set up to hang Shepard out to dry for ME2.

2. And who the hell wrote that conversation? (what were Miranda and Jacob doing in the Councilor's office anyway? They should have been cooling their heels outside.) I mean Shepard should have said something like

"I was dead. Do you think I had any control over where my body ended up while I was dead? Cerberus apparently had some advanced tech and brought me back to life. Since as far as I know I never resigned as a Spectre, and I've handled the necessary paperwork with C-Sec, and Councilor Anderson, I've never resigned my commission (see here's another sticky part - Alliance Officer back from the dead whoops!), I want to work with you again. Human colonies are disappearing. The Collectors are involved. We have security footage. We need your help. I need your help."

No. That didn't happen either. Why? Because the Council and Udina are the comic relief for our bad ass action hero. If they were a serious body, the meeting would have lasted more than 5 minutes, and wouldn't have just been a "show of support" which only gave Shepard a discount at the Citadel gift shop which Shepard got earlier by claiming discrimination against the poor. I don't play a paragon.

3. So now we have Alliance Officer back from the dead -- this is really bad writing here.

The writing is so ****ing bad I just cannot take the plot line seriously.

I still would have loved to have had the line in ME3 beginning instead of "this isn't about strategy. We fight or we die." to have said: "Permission to speak freely? How the hell should I know? I'm just some ex-frigate commander who's been cooling her heels under house arrest for the past six months while you didn't do jack **** with any of the intel I gave you for the past three years. What the hell were you thinking? That the reapers were going to come here wanting to have tea and scones? Sir."

It might not have been any better, but it would have felt good.

EDIT: And the ending... they should have given us ONE adrenaline pumping ending and had it been a good one. Shepard and company blow up the reapers and send the to Hell. Shepard and everyone survive (like the Suicide Mission) if done right. No one would have complained. Formulaic? Yes. Did it work? Yes.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 25 août 2012 - 05:40 .

[inversevideo]

Han Shot First wrote...

The only resource they consume are people, to create new Reapers. While torching worlds denies them the ability to produce those new Reapers, it also does more damage to the civilizations of the galaxy than it does the Reapers. Each world that gets annihilated would represent another steep loss in population, not to mention the loss of all the economic resources of that lost planet.

No. We disagree there. I'm not talking about propulsion. The Reapers harvest us. You are not damaging civilization, the Reapers have done that for you. You have not destroyed economic resources, if your system is lost, your population being slaughtered, converted to husk and goo, and you have no way to stop it, then the Reapers have already raped your planet. There is nothing left to save. No economy, no infrastructure, no populace. Everyone a husk or goo. Under those circumstances, I have no problem torching everything and collapsing the relay. Rather than engage in hope-against-hope type wishful thinking that the Reapers will spare some of your populace, and someday they will rebuild. Once the Reapers take a world, it is consumed.

[Conniving_Eagle]

ME1 yeah, ME2 not so much.

Salarian Councilor: We have no evidence that suggests Sovereign was anything more than a geth ship.

Legion: Sovereign was not our creation, we do not have the technology to engineer such a vessel.

Salarian Councilor: Oh yeah? Well, maybe... uhm... the geth under Saren were just more advanced than U, yeah...

Shepard: What about the fact that the Turians reverse engineered the technology from Sovereign to create unprecedented Thanix weaponry?

Salarian Councilor:

Shepard:....

Turian Councilor: Uhm, dats like, classified and stuff.

Salarian Councilor: Yeah, what he said.

http://desmond.image...png&res=landing

Modifié par Conniving_Eagle, 25 août 2012 - 05:47 .

[Conniving_Eagle]

During Mass Effect 3...

Council: OMFG SHEPARD YOU HAVE TO HELP US WHAT DO WE DO THE REAPERS ARE HERE AND THEY'RE KILLING EVERYBODY AND MILLIONS OF PEOPLE ARE DYING AND WE'RE HELPLESS AND WE DON'T KNOW ANYTHING BUT YOU DO SO WE NEED YOU TO HELP US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Shepard: Ah yes, "Reapers." -Walks off-

[Han Shot First]

inversevideo wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

The only resource they consume are people, to create new Reapers. While torching worlds denies them the ability to produce those new Reapers, it also does more damage to the civilizations of the galaxy than it does the Reapers. Each world that gets annihilated would represent another steep loss in population, not to mention the loss of all the economic resources of that lost planet.

No. We disagree there. I'm not talking about propulsion. The Reapers harvest us. You are not damaging civilization, the Reapers have done that for you. You have not destroyed economic resources, if your system is lost, your population being slaughtered, converted to husk and goo, and you have no way to stop it, then the Reapers have already raped your planet. There is nothing left to save. No economy, no infrastructure, no populace. Everyone a husk or goo. Under those circumstances, I have no problem torching everything and collapsing the relay. Rather than engage in hope-against-hope type wishful thinking that the Reapers will spare some of your populace, and someday they will rebuild. Once the Reapers take a world, it is consumed.

Even so, that only denies them the ability to create new Reapers. It wouldn't destroy existing ones, and in a war of attrition the Reapers hold all the advantages. Even destroying a Mass Effect Relay wouldn't kill Reapers, as they are capable of travelling faster than the speed of light. The fastest particles being ejected by that explosion would be travelling at the speed of light, which the Reapers could easily outrun.

[SlottsMachine]

I thought the Reapers wanted to take out the Citadel to destroy our means of communication because otherwise they may be defeated.

[AlanC9]

AresKeith wrote...

that fact that the relays blew up in endings pre-EC shows that Mac intended for it to be a Wasteland

The relays don't destroy the systems or Normandy's got no place to crash. So the relays blowing up proves nothing except the end of relay travel. . Which isn't great, but still leaves everybody with starships that are much, much better than TNG-era Star Trek ships. Edit: or maybe just about the same, depending on which Star Trek source you consult

Modifié par AlanC9, 25 août 2012 - 06:14 .

[inversevideo]

Han Shot First wrote...

inversevideo wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

The only resource they consume are people, to create new Reapers. While torching worlds denies them the ability to produce those new Reapers, it also does more damage to the civilizations of the galaxy than it does the Reapers. Each world that gets annihilated would represent another steep loss in population, not to mention the loss of all the economic resources of that lost planet.

No. We disagree there. I'm not talking about propulsion. The Reapers harvest us. You are not damaging civilization, the Reapers have done that for you. You have not destroyed economic resources, if your system is lost, your population being slaughtered, converted to husk and goo, and you have no way to stop it, then the Reapers have already raped your planet. There is nothing left to save. No economy, no infrastructure, no populace. Everyone a husk or goo. Under those circumstances, I have no problem torching everything and collapsing the relay. Rather than engage in hope-against-hope type wishful thinking that the Reapers will spare some of your populace, and someday they will rebuild. Once the Reapers take a world, it is consumed.

Even so, that only denies them the ability to create new Reapers. It wouldn't destroy existing ones, and in a war of attrition the Reapers hold all the advantages. Even destroying a Mass Effect Relay wouldn't kill Reapers, as they are capable of travelling faster than the speed of light. The fastest particles being ejected by that explosion would be travelling at the speed of light, which the Reapers could easily outrun.

I destroy what I can. I see no point in lamenting about how unbeatable the enemy is and why I should just bend over and submit. If I have to go down, it will be fighting.