317 réponses à ce sujet

[The Angry One]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Do you see them using the Citadel as a Mass Relay? They repaired the superstructure. Even fully intact they don't know how to activate the Citadel, which is now stuck in Sol, not that they would want to.

Are they going to move it back to the Serpent Nebula eventually, too?

I totally see the future Mayor of London lobbying for the Citadel to never be moved because it actually makes London significant again.

[Tealjaker94]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

We don't go back to the Dark Age in Destroy.

Everything can be repaired and easily. The Catalyst states this. The epilogue slides also dismiss this.

They retconned a lot of ****. So much for not changing things.

Yet Destroy doesn't show the Relays getting rebuilt like in Control and Synthesis. The two most knowledgable races on the Relays (Reapers and the Geth) are gone. No one understands Relay technology. How are they going to fix them? How are they going to re-link them when relays are hundreds (and thousands) of lightyears apart?

Ductape and hope.

In all seriousness,  the relays are still largely intact in the Destroy EC ending. They won't have to rebuild everything from scratch.

They rebuilt the Citadel, which is basically a big Mass Relay.

Do you see them using the Citadel as a Mass Relay? They repaired the superstructure. Even fully intact they don't know how to activate the Citadel, which is now stuck in Sol, not that they would want to.

Are they going to move it back to the Serpent Nebula eventually, too?

We see Samara with Falere. We see Wrex and Grunt on Tuchanka. We see quarians on Rannoch. All these scenes prove that the Mass Relays were repaired.

[MegaSovereign]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

We don't go back to the Dark Age in Destroy.

Everything can be repaired and easily. The Catalyst states this. The epilogue slides also dismiss this.

They retconned a lot of ****. So much for not changing things.

Yet Destroy doesn't show the Relays getting rebuilt like in Control and Synthesis. The two most knowledgable races on the Relays (Reapers and the Geth) are gone. No one understands Relay technology. How are they going to fix them? How are they going to re-link them when relays are hundreds (and thousands) of lightyears apart?

Ductape and hope.

In all seriousness,  the relays are still largely intact in the Destroy EC ending. They won't have to rebuild everything from scratch.

They rebuilt the Citadel, which is basically a big Mass Relay.

Do you see them using the Citadel as a Mass Relay? They repaired the superstructure. Even fully intact they don't know how to activate the Citadel, which is now stuck in Sol, not that they would want to.

Are they going to move it back to the Serpent Nebula eventually, too?

What I meant by that is the Citadel is Reaper tech as well. If they can rebuild the Citadel they can eventually repair the relays.

[AresKeith]

WarGriffin wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

shepdog77 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

We don't go back to the Dark Age in Destroy.

Everything can be repaired and easily. The Catalyst states this. The epilogue slides also dismiss this.

They retconned a lot of ****. So much for not changing things.

I'm pretty sure they never intended to send the galaxy back to the dark ages, they just weren't thinking/were rushed when putting in the "relays blowing up" scene.  Hell, they might have even reused the exact animation from Arrival, just with tweaks.  

I think we the fans were just "speculating" the Dark Age thing because of how bland the OE's were, coupled with the relays blowing up.  

So glad they fixed that in the EC.

actually Mac intended to make the Galaxy a Wasteland by destroying the Relays

Why

Cause he wanted to make Dragon Age in Space!

so instead of taking that part of the scene out, he further damages their codex/lore by retcon the relays

Modifié par AresKeith, 24 août 2012 - 04:11 .

[Conniving_Eagle]

The reason they retconned the Relays exploding is because that would turn the galaxy into a wasteland.

[CronoDragoon]

Tealjaker94 wrote...
We see Samara with Falere. We see Wrex and Grunt on Tuchanka. We see quarians on Rannoch. All these scenes prove that the Mass Relays were repaired.

Well... it doesn't prove anything except FTL still works.

[CronoDragoon]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

The reason they retconned the Relays exploding is because that would turn the galaxy into a wasteland.

That's why they took out the line about the relays being destroyed. It doesn't explain them adding a line saying that any technology affected by the blast could be easily repaired.

[Tealjaker94]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Tealjaker94 wrote...
We see Samara with Falere. We see Wrex and Grunt on Tuchanka. We see quarians on Rannoch. All these scenes prove that the Mass Relays were repaired.

Well... it doesn't prove anything except FTL still works.

Come on. No one's gonna be spending a multiyear journey with the krogan.

[ShepnTali]

War of the Worlds was clever. That's what we're missing here.

[The Angry One]

Occam's Razor would leave us with the relays being repaired, because it's the simplest explanation for how Earth could recover at all and the Citadel be rebuilt, both would require a massive influx of resources and supplies so the population doesn't starve to death in the wasteland.

Yes logic in ME3's endings, I know.

ShepnTali wrote...

War of the Worlds was clever. That's what we're missing here.

That too.
Though I do feel the ending was a copout, but I suppose in that case there wasn't really any other way to end it other than "Martians win" or "rocks fall everyone dies".

Modifié par The Angry One, 24 août 2012 - 04:15 .

[Ticonderoga117]

CronoDragoon wrote...
Well... it doesn't prove anything except FTL still works.

FTL doesn't have the endurance to travel outside of clusters.

[AresKeith]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...
actually Mac intended to make the Galaxy a Wasteland by destroying the Relays

Can you have a wasteland if everything effected by the relay destruction is completely destroyed?

they wanted there next game to be like Fallout lol

[The Twilight God]

The Angry One wrote...

No this isn't actually a topic about conventional victory, but rather how Me3 completely failed to give me the impression that we were facing a hopeless battle.

Let's look at War of the Worlds, since ME3 tries to pay homage to it in a few ways.
Specifically, the musical. Because the music is funky: War of the Worlds, Thunderchild

If you're too lazy to listen, the gist of it is that in a naval battle against the Martian tripods, the warship Thunderchild charges at them cannons blazing. It takes down a tripod before being instantly sunk by the others.
The impression I get from this scene is that the Thunderchild and her crew went down fighting. They tried. They took one of the bad guys with them.

How does this compare to ME3? ME3's battles all give me the same impression - nobody's trying. From the opening, to Palaven, to the battles over and on Earth at the end. I see the same thing. Lethargic fools rolling over and giving up before the battle has even begun. Ridiculous tactics and random flailing about. Failure to use the technology and weapons they're supposed to have. All when the codex outright says they can do better.
We have chararacters declare the Reapers undefeatable to the point it almost becomes an informed ability. While ME1 portrayed prevailing against the odds with Sovereign well enough, ME3 seems almost apathetic about what it's supposed to portray.

With the Thunderchild, I sensed that they did their best. The might of the British Empire did everything it could - and it just wasn't enough. With ME3, all I sense is that everybody gave up before the fact, and if I want an actual sense of proper resistance I have to read the codex. I didn't feel it.

Actually, Hackett makes quite clear that it's a no win situation.

ME1 was a fleet vs. a single Reaper. And it only went down because it was desperate enough to risk it all in a fire fight with Shepard and squad. It lost, it's shields magically collapse and only then was it destroyed. Now thousand(s) of this things show up and you think a few thanix cannons are going to even the odds?

[Feanor_II]

I don't believe in that:
1 The cost of beating a single Reaper (Sovereign) was to high, an entire fleet and half if I'm right...... and it was destroyed because of the disrruption of Saren's death.
2 There is no convetional victory, because that's not a conventional war, you can't cut supply lines, you can't capture command centers or important positions or key people (while they can do that with galactic civilizations)...... the only posible way is to kill every single Reaper, one by one, if isolated they are terrible (point 1) gathered would be hell

Modifié par Feanor_II, 24 août 2012 - 04:19 .

[The Angry One]

The Twilight God wrote...

Actually, Hackett makes quite clear that it's a no win situation.

Yes, he tells us.
Show, don't tell.

ME1 was a fleet vs. a single Reaper. And it only went down because it was desperate enough to risk it all in a fire fight with Shepard and squad. It lost, it's shields magically collapse and only then was it destroyed.

And when those shields went down we found out it's hull was basically made of paper. Btw thanix cannons are strong against kinetic barriers.

Now thousand(s) of this things show up and you think a few thanix cannons are going to even the odds?

If they don't, then show me.

Modifié par The Angry One, 24 août 2012 - 04:17 .

[Mike 9987]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Mike 9987 wrote...

It's not impossible, i agree. Just have every cycle kill an amount of reapers that is one more reaper than is created during that harvesting cycle in a full frontal assault. Eventually, they will be wiped out.

They create more than one.

They make one capital ship and then turn the rest into destroyers.

Yeah, that is why I said you have to destroy one more than is created. If 4 reapers are made, you must destroy 5. 

[ShepnTali]

Did anyone else notice that the EC diminished the sense of panic with Joker running from the big colors?

[megamacka]

They are like thousands and thousands of cycles harvested technology filled monsters whom basically one shot pretty much any ship. They have probably faced combined galaxies before.....

No.

''-Turian conventional tactics is to overwhelm their enemy with brute force. That's not really that relevant against the Reapers.

-Krogan and Vorcha are ground forces. Reapers have infinite supply of ground forces.

-Asari are good at infiltration. Pretty irrelevant against the Reapers.

-Salarians want to win battles by avoiding them. Irrelevant against the Reapers.

-Volus, Elcor, and Hanar. Lol nuff said.''

What this guy said.

It's like having an infinite amount of species from all of the cycles combined joined forces against you.... One cycle. They do show how outgunned and outnumbered you are. They start one shoting ships in the cinematic......
Sovereign was ONE reaper and he took a massive amount of ships in ME1 to take down. Now Imagine the entire galaxies combined fleet and they are still outnumbered like 3:1 by the reapers.

No.

Modifié par megamacka, 24 août 2012 - 04:25 .

[CronoDragoon]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...
Well... it doesn't prove anything except FTL still works.

FTL doesn't have the endurance to travel outside of clusters.

Is that from the codex? Would love to see it because it would indeed prove the relays were repaired.

[LilLino]

I've never felt like we could win with fleets only, not even after ME1. They are just too strong and there are too many of them. They own our Cruisers and Dreadnoughts, bah, they outnumber them too. A Reaper is twice the size and firepower of a Dreadnought and our races' combined have just 100 of them.

Also they turn our troops against one another and use corpses of our fallen to fight for their cause. And by corpses I don't mean only soldiers' corpses. They can use and brainwash dead civilians and that gives massive unfair advantage in ground-war.

No, I sincerely cannot understand why anyone believes that conventional victory is possible, sorry OP.
Although I agree that game SUX in showing us that. They just talk and talk and talk some more + write about it in the Codex. It's stupid and lazy out of Bioware, but that doesn't mean it's a lie.

ME3 should have waaay more battlefield sceneries. More cutscenes and more missions that actually feel like a a damn galaxy-wide war.

[Kyle Dei]

The Twilight God wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

No this isn't actually a topic about conventional victory, but rather how Me3 completely failed to give me the impression that we were facing a hopeless battle.

Let's look at War of the Worlds, since ME3 tries to pay homage to it in a few ways.
Specifically, the musical. Because the music is funky: War of the Worlds, Thunderchild

If you're too lazy to listen, the gist of it is that in a naval battle against the Martian tripods, the warship Thunderchild charges at them cannons blazing. It takes down a tripod before being instantly sunk by the others.
The impression I get from this scene is that the Thunderchild and her crew went down fighting. They tried. They took one of the bad guys with them.

How does this compare to ME3? ME3's battles all give me the same impression - nobody's trying. From the opening, to Palaven, to the battles over and on Earth at the end. I see the same thing. Lethargic fools rolling over and giving up before the battle has even begun. Ridiculous tactics and random flailing about. Failure to use the technology and weapons they're supposed to have. All when the codex outright says they can do better.
We have chararacters declare the Reapers undefeatable to the point it almost becomes an informed ability. While ME1 portrayed prevailing against the odds with Sovereign well enough, ME3 seems almost apathetic about what it's supposed to portray.

With the Thunderchild, I sensed that they did their best. The might of the British Empire did everything it could - and it just wasn't enough. With ME3, all I sense is that everybody gave up before the fact, and if I want an actual sense of proper resistance I have to read the codex. I didn't feel it.

Actually, Hackett makes quite clear that it's a no win situation.

ME1 was a fleet vs. a single Reaper. And it only went down because it was desperate enough to risk it all in a fire fight with Shepard and squad. It lost, it's shields magically collapse and only then was it destroyed. Now thousand(s) of this things show up and you think a few thanix cannons are going to even the odds?

Yes, a Reaper with shields. So those Reapers getting tendrils blown off were faking it? The shield is Sovereign's plot armour at that point, just like it being the plot he loses said shields.

That fleet at the end of ME3... yeah that isn't just one fleet, it's maybe let's say roughly 15+ fleets(somebody find out? xD), with the entire Quarian Flotilla/Geth that survived.

If you want to go into detail, many people have said there were NO thanix cannons firing during the fleet combat in ME3, so they were using the standard cannons they used on Sovereign and look, they are blowing tendrils off! So technically those fleets can kill a Reaper.

I'm in TAO's corner, I'd prefer to SEE how we can't win conventionally.

[Conniving_Eagle]

The Angry One wrote...

Occam's Razor would leave us with the relays being repaired, because it's the simplest explanation for how Earth could recover at all and the Citadel be rebuilt, both would require a massive influx of resources and supplies so the population doesn't starve to death in the wasteland.

Yes logic in ME3's endings, I know.

ShepnTali wrote...

War of the Worlds was clever. That's what we're missing here.

That too.
Though I do feel the ending was a copout, but I suppose in that case there wasn't really any other way to end it other than "Martians win" or "rocks fall everyone dies".

Occam's Razor is not omni-potent.

In this case, it also supports the plot-holes and lore jumps necessary to do so.

Modifié par Conniving_Eagle, 24 août 2012 - 04:26 .

[Mazebook]

 I can´t argue against  the OP feelings but for me the starting screen alone


and the multiple enviromental storytelling elements in the skybox(earth/palavan/thessia) were enough for me to convey that feeling.

Modifié par maaaze, 24 août 2012 - 04:30 .

[tyrvas]

ShepnTali wrote...

Did anyone else notice that the EC diminished the sense of panic with Joker running from the big colors?

Yes, both my son and I did.