317 réponses à ce sujet

[Baa Baa]

I pretty much agree with everything you said.
In ME1 at the end I felt like, "We made the gods bleed, they're nowhere near as powerful as I imagined, we can do this."
In ME3 I felt like everyone had immediately given up.

[megamacka]

Tbh, do they really HAVE to put exactly EVERYTHING in a cinematic to you? They already say that you can't win conventionally, do they have to show you one reaper taking out five cruisers on his own?

And by the way. The reason that you may have felt this way as you say in the OP '' no one is trying ''..... Easy explanation..... 50% of the developers lost all passion in ME3..... 50% + of the game lacks any sort of real emotion and passion put into it. Look how poorly Thessia was executed for example.

   No one looked like they were trying because the developer stopped caring.

Modifié par megamacka, 24 août 2012 - 04:30 .

[Ticonderoga117]

CronoDragoon wrote...
Is that from the codex? Would love to see it because it would indeed prove the relays were repaired.

Don't think it's in the codex per se, but it's common sense. Not only does the Normandy not seem to have the endurance fuel wise, but what about the crew? These ships don't seem to be in it for the long haul. Dedidcated survey ships sure, but the other 95%? Nah.

Plus, it's the whole point of the relays. All spacefaring traffic goes through them so that when the Reapers shut it down, it hurts REALLY bad.

[CronoDragoon]

If it wasn't clear to me after the beginning, it was clear to me at Palaven that we couldn't win. If you talk about seeing, I was staring slack-jawed at the visual of a burning Palaven, Garrus talking about millions dead in the first few days, and all the gigantic Reapers walking around unfazed by our ground troops.

So I disagree. I think the game did a good job of portraying the overwhelming force of the Reapers.They don't have to be portrayed as invincible, just like a basketball team doesn't have to win 100-0. 100-10 still means the other team never had a chance.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 24 août 2012 - 04:35 .

[Ticonderoga117]

maaaze wrote...

 I can´t argue against against the OP feelings but for me the starting screen alone


and the multiple enviromental storytelling elements in the skybox(earth/palavan/thessia) were enough for me to convey that feeling.

So, generic war imagery equals "Oh God! We're all going to die and we can't do anything!!!"

Huh?

[Reorte]

Kyle Dei wrote...

Yes, a Reaper with shields. So those Reapers getting tendrils blown off were faking it? The shield is Sovereign's plot armour at that point, just like it being the plot he loses said shields.

That fleet at the end of ME3... yeah that isn't just one fleet, it's maybe let's say roughly 15+ fleets(somebody find out? xD), with the entire Quarian Flotilla/Geth that survived.

If you want to go into detail, many people have said there were NO thanix cannons firing during the fleet combat in ME3, so they were using the standard cannons they used on Sovereign and look, they are blowing tendrils off! So technically those fleets can kill a Reaper.

I'm in TAO's corner, I'd prefer to SEE how we can't win conventionally.

What? Being able to do some damage to one Reaper with an entire fleet equates to being able to win conventionally? No-ones argued that the Reapers are indescrtuctible but it's crazy to think that we could destroy all of them before they'd finished destroying all of us. Seeing the Reapers beaten in a straightforward fight would feel like as much of a lame copout as Space Magic did.

I wasn't sure what I expected to happen going into ME3 because I always had the impression that we were out of our depth against the Reapers, and any chance of survival was going to involve something pretty damned impressive and clever.

Modifié par Reorte, 24 août 2012 - 04:33 .

[Conniving_Eagle]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...
Well... it doesn't prove anything except FTL still works.

FTL doesn't have the endurance to travel outside of clusters.

Is that from the codex? Would love to see it because it would indeed prove the relays were repaired.

Just like Synthesis proves that Synthesis is actually possible.

[CronoDragoon]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...
Is that from the codex? Would love to see it because it would indeed prove the relays were repaired.

Don't think it's in the codex per se, but it's common sense. Not only does the Normandy not seem to have the endurance fuel wise, but what about the crew? These ships don't seem to be in it for the long haul. Dedidcated survey ships sure, but the other 95%? Nah.

Plus, it's the whole point of the relays. All spacefaring traffic goes through them so that when the Reapers shut it down, it hurts REALLY bad.

Traffic goes through the relays because it is way more efficient to do so, but that doesn't make FTL travel impossible. I just don't really see how Samara and Wrex/Grunt getting home by itself implies the relays being fixed, but I don't have enough motivation to get into specifics.

[AresKeith]

CronoDragoon wrote...

If it wasn't clear to me after the beginning, it was clear to me at Palaven that we couldn't win. If you talk about seeing, I was staring slack-jawed at the visual of a burning Palaven, Garrus talking about millions dead in the first few days, and all the gigantic Reapers walking around unfazed by our ground troops.

So I disagree. I think the game did a good job of portraying the overwhelming force of the Reapers.

most I saw was a bunch of retconning after ME1 and bad writing

[Reorte]

Baa Baa wrote...

I pretty much agree with everything you said.
In ME1 at the end I felt like, "We made the gods bleed, they're nowhere near as powerful as I imagined, we can do this."
In ME3 I felt like everyone had immediately given up.

ME1 said "They're not indestructible but they're still a hell of a lot more powerful than us so if they turn up in large numbers then we're screwed."

[CronoDragoon]

AresKeith wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

If it wasn't clear to me after the beginning, it was clear to me at Palaven that we couldn't win. If you talk about seeing, I was staring slack-jawed at the visual of a burning Palaven, Garrus talking about millions dead in the first few days, and all the gigantic Reapers walking around unfazed by our ground troops.

So I disagree. I think the game did a good job of portraying the overwhelming force of the Reapers.

most I saw was a bunch of retconning after ME1 and bad writing

What retconning?

[LilLino]

Kyle Dei wrote...

Yes, a Reaper with shields. So those Reapers getting tendrils blown off were faking it? The shield is Sovereign's plot armour at that point, just like it being the plot he loses said shields.

That fleet at the end of ME3... yeah that isn't just one fleet, it's maybe let's say roughly 15+ fleets(somebody find out? xD), with the entire Quarian Flotilla/Geth that survived.

If you want to go into detail, many people have said there were NO thanix cannons firing during the fleet combat in ME3, so they were using the standard cannons they used on Sovereign and look, they are blowing tendrils off! So technically those fleets can kill a Reaper.

I'm in TAO's corner, I'd prefer to SEE how we can't win conventionally.

It's in the numbers.. We lost a lot of fleets from a surprise attack just at the beginning of the game. Turians lost a lot of their stuff because of underastimating the enemy. Then they kept loosing starships&soldiers desperately trying to hold Palaven. They failed.
Asari&Salarians sat on their asses why lots of people died. Strategys taken by various races in this war sucked and let to massive casualties in the very beginning.

We don't know perfectly how many Reapers there are, but they one shot our cruisers and outnumber our dreadnoughts. Fighters and frigates barely scratch them. 
Plus as I mentioned, they outnumber us on the ground too.

[Fixers0]

CronoDragoon wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

If it wasn't clear to me after the beginning, it was clear to me at Palaven that we couldn't win. If you talk about seeing, I was staring slack-jawed at the visual of a burning Palaven, Garrus talking about millions dead in the first few days, and all the gigantic Reapers walking around unfazed by our ground troops.

So I disagree. I think the game did a good job of portraying the overwhelming force of the Reapers.

most I saw was a bunch of retconning after ME1 and bad writing

What retconning?

Like the Alliance first fleet coming back from the dead, or pretending that eight cruiser cannot be rebuild in three years and make up a third of at least three Alliance fleets.

[Chaotic-Fusion]

I agree OP. In the game I never even got the sense that we were actually trying to win. You have to read the codex to even see we were actually fighting.


The problem with repairing the relay network is that you can't just repair the one in the sol system and reach any other. They all have to be repaired. If you want to go from relay A to relay B you first have to reach relay B with conventional FTL travel to be able to fix it and subsequently use it. So everyone is indeed stuck in the sol system for at least a few decades. And that's assuming you can somehow reach a second relay with the FTL technology the galaxy has and without need of resources. Other people from other planets could fix their relays independently I suppose, but without the ability to communicate that's highly unlikely.

But authorial intent supersedes common sense. I'm glad the galactic dark age nonsense was retconned, but it still doesn't make much sense. The relays shouldn't have been damaged period.

Modifié par Chaotic-Fusion, 24 août 2012 - 04:44 .

[AresKeith]

CronoDragoon wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

If it wasn't clear to me after the beginning, it was clear to me at Palaven that we couldn't win. If you talk about seeing, I was staring slack-jawed at the visual of a burning Palaven, Garrus talking about millions dead in the first few days, and all the gigantic Reapers walking around unfazed by our ground troops.

So I disagree. I think the game did a good job of portraying the overwhelming force of the Reapers.

most I saw was a bunch of retconning after ME1 and bad writing

What retconning?

the Council if you saved them believed you about the Reapers in ME1, in ME2 they got retconned. The Turians started making Thanix cannons they never used them on Palaven. Arrival since it was suppose to be the brigde between ME2 and ME3 when your gave everyone extra months to prepare all they did was sit on their butts and do nothings, and on Arrival when you destroyed the Relay that should have weaken the Reapers since they was about to come through it.

[Baa Baa]

AresKeith wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

If it wasn't clear to me after the beginning, it was clear to me at Palaven that we couldn't win. If you talk about seeing, I was staring slack-jawed at the visual of a burning Palaven, Garrus talking about millions dead in the first few days, and all the gigantic Reapers walking around unfazed by our ground troops.

So I disagree. I think the game did a good job of portraying the overwhelming force of the Reapers.

most I saw was a bunch of retconning after ME1 and bad writing

What retconning?

the Council if you saved them believed you about the Reapers in ME1, in ME2 they got retconned. The Turians started making Thanix cannons they never used them on Palaven. Arrival since it was suppose to be the brigde between ME2 and ME3 when your gave everyone extra months to prepare all they did was sit on their butts and do nothings, and on Arrival when you destroyed the Relay that should have weaken the Reapers since they was about to come through it.

I hate how they retconned things that would have HELPED you in future installements.

[Conniving_Eagle]

I'm still waiting for a logical explanation as to how the relays are repaired. Otherwise it's headcanon just like trying to explain Synthesis.

[xxskyshadowxx]

I had the same feeling. It's why the game felt so horribly depressing nearly the entire time that I played it.

[CronoDragoon]

AresKeith wrote...


the Council if you saved them believed you about the Reapers in ME1, in ME2 they got retconned. The Turians started making Thanix cannons they never used them on Palaven. Arrival since it was suppose to be the brigde between ME2 and ME3 when your gave everyone extra months to prepare all they did was sit on their butts and do nothings, and on Arrival when you destroyed the Relay that should have weaken the Reapers since they was about to come through it.

Oh, you mean retconning in general and not specifically related to the point I was making. In that case, I can honestly say I don't care.

But Arrival did weaken the Reapers by delaying them, which is the only way it would weaken them.

[Ticonderoga117]

CronoDragoon wrote...
Traffic goes through the relays because it is way more efficient to do so, but that doesn't make FTL travel impossible. I just don't really see how Samara and Wrex/Grunt getting home by itself implies the relays being fixed, but I don't have enough motivation to get into specifics.

Impossible? No, but not exactly easy by any stretch. Doesn't help that most of the fuel stations between here and wherever are gone. Doubt you can make fuel on the way so... kinda problematic. 

[Kyle Dei]

LilLino wrote...

It's in the numbers.. We lost a lot of fleets from a surprise attack just at the beginning of the game. Turians lost a lot of their stuff because of underastimating the enemy. Then they kept loosing starships&soldiers desperately trying to hold Palaven. They failed.
Asari&Salarians sat on their asses why lots of people died. Strategys taken by various races in this war sucked and let to massive casualties in the very beginning.

We don't know perfectly how many Reapers there are, but they one shot our cruisers and outnumber our dreadnoughts. Fighters and frigates barely scratch them. 
Plus as I mentioned, they outnumber us on the ground too.

Oh I can understand all that, but the one shot cruisers? There is a small clip in the Fleet combat where an alliance ship takes a shot from a Reaper Beam and just keeps flying. So the one shot thing, there's proof in the cinematics to point otherwise on that.

Also - within the codex is some information on how the Turians attacked the Reapers as they arrived through the relay, using their slower turning speeds to hit them before they could turn their weapons to bear. The only reason the Turians fell back was because the Reaper's bypassed the fleet with destroyers and started landing on Palaven, this put them into a defensive posture rather than an offensive like they'd already been doing.

This tactic could - would, possibly - have worked while attacking the Reaper's at Earth. There's nothing for us to defend, so why not send some ships behind the Reaper's to cause some harm? Then FTL away before they turned? Then hit them again if given the chance.

While I don't believe conventional victory is possible, I'd still prefer to visually see why not. It would add to my 'wha-hey we're gonna... oh dear no we're not' - Apologies if it seemed I supported 'conventional is possible' it's more of a "I'd prefer to see why it isn't"

[Baa Baa]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

I'm still waiting for a logical explanation as to how the relays are repaired. Otherwise it's headcanon just like trying to explain Synthesis.

I guess since the Reapers are dead and they created the Mass Relays, they used their technology to fix them?
Idk that's my best guess

[TheCrazyHobo]

I had the same feeling during the entire game. After seeing what the Thanix Cannon on the Normandy did to the Collector Vessel, I had high hopes for seeing them mounted on a Cruiser or a Dreadnought. Well, I guess we prefer Mass Accelerators and "thanix missiles."

[CrutchCricket]

It's funny but up to ME3's release wasn't Bioware talking about how it WOULD be a war story, and not just doing random **** in space like you did the past 2 games?

And where did that lead? Inane fetch quests that no one even asked you to do. You just overhead some random chick on the citadel ****ing about medi-gel and bam! Gotta go to some random planet and pick her up some... from space...

It wasn't just the final battle that didn't sell the "we're all gonna die" thing.

[CronoDragoon]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

I'm still waiting for a logical explanation as to how the relays are repaired. Otherwise it's headcanon just like trying to explain Synthesis.

It's not worth trying. No matter what is said you have already made up your mind, will proclaim it illogical, and continue to wallow in despair. Instead I'll just leave you to that.