317 réponses à ce sujet

[The Twilight God]

The Angry One wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

Actually, Hackett makes quite clear that it's a no win situation.

Yes, he tells us.
Show, don't tell.

Palaven, Earth, Thessia, The Hegemony, etc. The war is a losing battle. If not for the desire to harvest the Reapers could just bombard each world to an ice age and move on and there would be nothing the defenders could do about it. Hackett is the one fighting the war. If you think he's incompetent and doesn't know what he's talking about then you might as well cut the game off and headcanon

The Angry One wrote...

And when those shields went down we found out it's hull was basically made of paper. Btw thanix cannons are strong against kinetic barriers.

Against vessels of the same relative technological level. Our Thanix cannons aren't as powerful as reaper thanix cannons. Ours are obviously not traveling at a fraction of the speed of light as we can see the beam traveling to it's target. Reaper shields are extremely powerful. It simply takes too much to take one down. We are outnumbered and outgunned. And there is no way you can have played the same game I played and not realized we could not win base on what we've seen and heard.

You're just sticking your fingers in your ears, closing your eyes and shouting , "LALALALALALALALA - can't see or hear you, Reapers - LALALALALALALA!!"

The Angry One wrote...

If they don't, then show me.

Earth
Palaven
Thessia
Final Battle 
....sigh

Modifié par The Twilight God, 24 août 2012 - 05:01 .

[Conniving_Eagle]

"Mass Relays are mass transit devices scattered throughout the galaxy, usually located within star systems. They form an enormous network allowing interstellar travel. Hailed as one of the greatest achievements of the extinct Protheans, a mass relay can transport starships instantaneously to another relay within the network, allowing for journeys that would otherwise take years or even decades with only FTL drives."

Milky Way spans about 100,000 LY in diameter, its center being impossible to traverse through.

Modifié par Conniving_Eagle, 24 août 2012 - 04:51 .

[Jadebaby]

The Angry One wrote...

No this isn't actually a topic about conventional victory, but rather how Me3 completely failed to give me the impression that we were facing a hopeless battle.

Let's look at War of the Worlds, since ME3 tries to pay homage to it in a few ways.
Specifically, the musical. Because the music is funky: War of the Worlds, Thunderchild

If you're too lazy to listen, the gist of it is that in a naval battle against the Martian tripods, the warship Thunderchild charges at them cannons blazing. It takes down a tripod before being instantly sunk by the others.
The impression I get from this scene is that the Thunderchild and her crew went down fighting. They tried. They took one of the bad guys with them.

How does this compare to ME3? ME3's battles all give me the same impression - nobody's trying. From the opening, to Palaven, to the battles over and on Earth at the end. I see the same thing. Lethargic fools rolling over and giving up before the battle has even begun. Ridiculous tactics and random flailing about. Failure to use the technology and weapons they're supposed to have. All when the codex outright says they can do better.
We have chararacters declare the Reapers undefeatable to the point it almost becomes an informed ability. While ME1 portrayed prevailing against the odds with Sovereign well enough, ME3 seems almost apathetic about what it's supposed to portray.

With the Thunderchild, I sensed that they did their best. The might of the British Empire did everything it could - and it just wasn't enough. With ME3, all I sense is that everybody gave up before the fact, and if I want an actual sense of proper resistance I have to read the codex. I didn't feel it.

Yea, great analysis, but you're forgetting one thing which makes this whole OP obselete.

"This isn't a time for strategy or tactics. We fight or we die."

Because of Shepard's leadership qualities presented here, instead of everyone working as a team and getting the upper hand on isolated Reapers. They all individually tried to take on the Reapers with predator pistols in a passionate rage.

[mumba]

I wonder what would happen if you take a normal UT-47A Kodiak, make it go FTL and slam it into a Reaper. Easy victory.

[Funkdrspot]

Be 5 months after release
Same people still complaining on the forums
in their usual cynical, scorched earth manner

Mfw people still complaining about what a game
should/could have been instead of enjoying it for
What it is.

[Conniving_Eagle]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

I'm still waiting for a logical explanation as to how the relays are repaired. Otherwise it's headcanon just like trying to explain Synthesis.

It's not worth trying. No matter what is said you have already made up your mind, will proclaim it illogical, and continue to wallow in despair. Instead I'll just leave you to that.

So in other words: I'm willing to listen to reason but since you or anyone else can't come up with any you won't bother.

[AresKeith]

CronoDragoon wrote...

AresKeith wrote...


the Council if you saved them believed you about the Reapers in ME1, in ME2 they got retconned. The Turians started making Thanix cannons they never used them on Palaven. Arrival since it was suppose to be the brigde between ME2 and ME3 when your gave everyone extra months to prepare all they did was sit on their butts and do nothings, and on Arrival when you destroyed the Relay that should have weaken the Reapers since they was about to come through it.

Oh, you mean retconning in general and not specifically related to the point I was making. In that case, I can honestly say I don't care.

But Arrival did weaken the Reapers by delaying them, which is the only way it would weaken them.

sorry to break it to you, but the past two games does relate to ME3 

and a Relay going Supernova should effect them like it does a System

[shepdog77]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

So in other words: I'm willing to listen to reason but since you or anyone else can't come up with any you won't bother.

Every time I go to argue with you Eagle, I get distracted by your avatar.  So I just move on to.... other things.

[Gogzilla]

The Batarians were gone at the start of the game

Did you not see Palaven in flames, in the end it was abandoned to fend for it self
Was the refugee chatter on the citadel not informative
Thessia's fall not a spectacle of events around the galaxy.

Earth was practically a graveyard and everyone knew it going in.

Apart from Shepard were there any major victories during that entire war. The only race to even hold the line were the turians and they were still being pushed back at every front.

When i was doing the final battle with a gazillion banshees all over the place and the reaper shooting at me, i got the point of one Shepard can only do so much.

Modifié par Gogzilla, 24 août 2012 - 04:58 .

[Grand Wazoo]

I agree. Since ME1 I got the feeling that in this cycle things will be different, but in ME3 everything just rolled over because art. Even when they decided to take this direction, it was extremly jarring for me to only read about us genuinely fighting the reapers and not seeing it.

The portrayal of the conflict in ME3 is pretty silly, but video games are usually horrible at portraying warfare anyways.

[AresKeith]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

No this isn't actually a topic about conventional victory, but rather how Me3 completely failed to give me the impression that we were facing a hopeless battle.

Let's look at War of the Worlds, since ME3 tries to pay homage to it in a few ways.
Specifically, the musical. Because the music is funky: War of the Worlds, Thunderchild

If you're too lazy to listen, the gist of it is that in a naval battle against the Martian tripods, the warship Thunderchild charges at them cannons blazing. It takes down a tripod before being instantly sunk by the others.
The impression I get from this scene is that the Thunderchild and her crew went down fighting. They tried. They took one of the bad guys with them.

How does this compare to ME3? ME3's battles all give me the same impression - nobody's trying. From the opening, to Palaven, to the battles over and on Earth at the end. I see the same thing. Lethargic fools rolling over and giving up before the battle has even begun. Ridiculous tactics and random flailing about. Failure to use the technology and weapons they're supposed to have. All when the codex outright says they can do better.
We have chararacters declare the Reapers undefeatable to the point it almost becomes an informed ability. While ME1 portrayed prevailing against the odds with Sovereign well enough, ME3 seems almost apathetic about what it's supposed to portray.

With the Thunderchild, I sensed that they did their best. The might of the British Empire did everything it could - and it just wasn't enough. With ME3, all I sense is that everybody gave up before the fact, and if I want an actual sense of proper resistance I have to read the codex. I didn't feel it.

Yea, great analysis, but you're forgetting one thing which makes this whole OP obselete.

"This isn't a time for strategy or tactics. We fight or we die."

Because of Shepard's leadership qualities presented here, instead of everyone working as a team and getting the upper hand on isolated Reapers. They all individually tried to take on the Reapers with predator pistols in a passionate rage.

haven't you heard the predator pistols are like the Halo 1 pistol lol

[CronoDragoon]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

So in other words: I'm willing to listen to reason but since you or anyone else can't come up with any you won't bother.

Okay, since you say you are willing to listen I will try:

Scientific breakthroughs are usually a combination of luck, intelligence, and perserverence. It is therefore logical that - since every bright mind in the galaxy is in the same place and has the utmost motivation to fix the relays - someone will eventually be able to discern the correct path to fixing the relays.

That does not, by itself, make a situation where no one fixes the relays illogical, however given everything else in the EC endings it does make it unlikely.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 24 août 2012 - 05:01 .

[Conniving_Eagle]

shepdog77 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

So in other words: I'm willing to listen to reason but since you or anyone else can't come up with any you won't bother.

Every time I go to argue with you Eagle, I get distracted by your avatar.  So I just move on to.... other things.

[Baa Baa]

AresKeith wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

No this isn't actually a topic about conventional victory, but rather how Me3 completely failed to give me the impression that we were facing a hopeless battle.

Let's look at War of the Worlds, since ME3 tries to pay homage to it in a few ways.
Specifically, the musical. Because the music is funky: War of the Worlds, Thunderchild

If you're too lazy to listen, the gist of it is that in a naval battle against the Martian tripods, the warship Thunderchild charges at them cannons blazing. It takes down a tripod before being instantly sunk by the others.
The impression I get from this scene is that the Thunderchild and her crew went down fighting. They tried. They took one of the bad guys with them.

How does this compare to ME3? ME3's battles all give me the same impression - nobody's trying. From the opening, to Palaven, to the battles over and on Earth at the end. I see the same thing. Lethargic fools rolling over and giving up before the battle has even begun. Ridiculous tactics and random flailing about. Failure to use the technology and weapons they're supposed to have. All when the codex outright says they can do better.
We have chararacters declare the Reapers undefeatable to the point it almost becomes an informed ability. While ME1 portrayed prevailing against the odds with Sovereign well enough, ME3 seems almost apathetic about what it's supposed to portray.

With the Thunderchild, I sensed that they did their best. The might of the British Empire did everything it could - and it just wasn't enough. With ME3, all I sense is that everybody gave up before the fact, and if I want an actual sense of proper resistance I have to read the codex. I didn't feel it.

Yea, great analysis, but you're forgetting one thing which makes this whole OP obselete.

"This isn't a time for strategy or tactics. We fight or we die."

Because of Shepard's leadership qualities presented here, instead of everyone working as a team and getting the upper hand on isolated Reapers. They all individually tried to take on the Reapers with predator pistols in a passionate rage.

haven't you heard the predator pistols are like the Halo 1 pistol lol

Give me a gravity hammer and I'll **** a reaper up

[CronoDragoon]

AresKeith wrote...

sorry to break it to you, but the past two games does relate to ME3 

and a Relay going Supernova should effect them like it does a System

What does any of this have to do with ME3's portrayal of the power of the Reapers, which was the point of my post to which you responded?

[Conniving_Eagle]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

So in other words: I'm willing to listen to reason but since you or anyone else can't come up with any you won't bother.

Okay, since you say you are willing to listen I will try:

Scientific breakthroughs are usually a combination of luck, intelligence, and perserverence. It is therefore logical that - since every bright mind in the galaxy is in the same place and has the utmost motivation to fix the relays - someone will eventually be able to discern the correct path to fixing the relays.

Source? Scientists are civillians, I'm not sure why they would be helping escort a superweapon, even if they were the ones who developed it. The Crucible wasn't being built in Sol. They're still restricted to the resources of one, now very over-crowded system. And if what you say is true, then good for Sol. I wonder how the other systems are going to find out how to fix the relays.

[Hackulator]

It is the judgment of every character in the series that knows anything about war that you will not be able to defeat the Reapers in a fight. It has in the past taken entire fleets to defeat a single Reaper ship. You are just too used too being able to shoot everything to death with enough bullets.

[Conniving_Eagle]

Baa Baa wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

No this isn't actually a topic about conventional victory, but rather how Me3 completely failed to give me the impression that we were facing a hopeless battle.

Let's look at War of the Worlds, since ME3 tries to pay homage to it in a few ways.
Specifically, the musical. Because the music is funky: War of the Worlds, Thunderchild

If you're too lazy to listen, the gist of it is that in a naval battle against the Martian tripods, the warship Thunderchild charges at them cannons blazing. It takes down a tripod before being instantly sunk by the others.
The impression I get from this scene is that the Thunderchild and her crew went down fighting. They tried. They took one of the bad guys with them.

How does this compare to ME3? ME3's battles all give me the same impression - nobody's trying. From the opening, to Palaven, to the battles over and on Earth at the end. I see the same thing. Lethargic fools rolling over and giving up before the battle has even begun. Ridiculous tactics and random flailing about. Failure to use the technology and weapons they're supposed to have. All when the codex outright says they can do better.
We have chararacters declare the Reapers undefeatable to the point it almost becomes an informed ability. While ME1 portrayed prevailing against the odds with Sovereign well enough, ME3 seems almost apathetic about what it's supposed to portray.

With the Thunderchild, I sensed that they did their best. The might of the British Empire did everything it could - and it just wasn't enough. With ME3, all I sense is that everybody gave up before the fact, and if I want an actual sense of proper resistance I have to read the codex. I didn't feel it.

Yea, great analysis, but you're forgetting one thing which makes this whole OP obselete.

"This isn't a time for strategy or tactics. We fight or we die."

Because of Shepard's leadership qualities presented here, instead of everyone working as a team and getting the upper hand on isolated Reapers. They all individually tried to take on the Reapers with predator pistols in a passionate rage.

haven't you heard the predator pistols are like the Halo 1 pistol lol

Give me a gravity hammer and I'll **** a reaper up

[Ticonderoga117]

Hackulator wrote...

It is the judgment of every character in the series that knows anything about war that you will not be able to defeat the Reapers in a fight. It has in the past taken entire fleets to defeat a single Reaper ship. You are just too used too being able to shoot everything to death with enough bullets.

Admiral Hackett who won't stop complaining 30 minutes after the war started?
Oh yeah, he put up some fight alright. <_<

Hackett, get your head out of your behind and actually do something!
Anderson doesn't count because he's an admiral... leading ground forces.

[CronoDragoon]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Source? Scientists are civillians, I'm not sure why they would be helping escort a superweapon, even if they were the ones who developed it. The Crucible wasn't being built in Sol. They're still restricted to the resources of one, now very over-crowded system. And if what you say is true, then good for Sol. I wonder how the other systems are going to find out how to fix the relays.

I don't think they are in Sol. But wherever they were building the Crucible, they were doing it together in the same place.

Also, even if the relays don't work, communication still does. Once someone finds out how to fix the relays, the answer will spread quickly.

[Zulufoxtrot]

 I think the major problem lies in how inconsistent the Reapers strength is shown to be. Apparently the Turian Fleet is capable of inflicting small, but substantial losses on the Reaper force, and the Asari were able to defeat a few with their hit and run tactics, but the combined firepower of the Quarian Fleet has to hit a Reaper Destroyer multiple times in order to knock it down, even though on a planets surface a Reaper is supposed to be more vulnerable? I think a conventional victory would be possible, but only if you have the max in War Assets and EMS. It says in the codex on the Reaper War that they might not have been counting on having the contend with the Geth and Quarian Fleets, so I think it's possbile they might not have been counting on having to contend with Salarians, Asari, Humans, Volus, Drell/Hanar, Pirates, Krogan, Rachni, Geth, Quarian, Elcor, Batarians, The Citadel Defense Force, and others all at the same time in a single battle, with them all at full strength. 

Modifié par Zulufoxtrot, 24 août 2012 - 05:12 .

[Jayleia]

The Angry One wrote...

Let me make this clear again I don't like the idea of no conventional victory, but if you're going to make it hopeless, then SHOW ME it's hopeless. Let's see thanix cannons left and right. Let's see the Destiny Ascension chew up a Sovereign class or two before being taken down. Don't just tell me conventional warfare won't win.

To put it another way, don't tell me its hopeless, make me feel it.  They're BioWare, they can make the suicide mission, they can make Sovereign's destruction, they KNOW how to make me feel things.

[The Twilight God]

AresKeith wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

AresKeith wrote...


the Council if you saved them believed you about the Reapers in ME1, in ME2 they got retconned. The Turians started making Thanix cannons they never used them on Palaven. Arrival since it was suppose to be the brigde between ME2 and ME3 when your gave everyone extra months to prepare all they did was sit on their butts and do nothings, and on Arrival when you destroyed the Relay that should have weaken the Reapers since they was about to come through it.

Oh, you mean retconning in general and not specifically related to the point I was making. In that case, I can honestly say I don't care.

But Arrival did weaken the Reapers by delaying them, which is the only way it would weaken them.

sorry to break it to you, but the past two games does relate to ME3 

and a Relay going Supernova should effect them like it does a System

The Reapers were not there when it blew up. They didn't come thru it. They were coming straight out of dark space using FTL. They would then use it once they entered the galaxy to go everything else. All Arrival did was take away the portal. So they had to FTL hump it some more to ge to the next relay.

[eye basher]

This is what the reapers think when they see the galaxy fighting '' Pituful cockroaches struggle all you want in the end were still stepping on you''.

[The Twilight God]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

So in other words: I'm willing to listen to reason but since you or anyone else can't come up with any you won't bother.

Okay, since you say you are willing to listen I will try:

Scientific breakthroughs are usually a combination of luck, intelligence, and perserverence. It is therefore logical that - since every bright mind in the galaxy is in the same place and has the utmost motivation to fix the relays - someone will eventually be able to discern the correct path to fixing the relays.

Source? Scientists are civillians, I'm not sure why they would be helping escort a superweapon, even if they were the ones who developed it. The Crucible wasn't being built in Sol. They're still restricted to the resources of one, now very over-crowded system. And if what you say is true, then good for Sol. I wonder how the other systems are going to find out how to fix the relays.

The scientist did come along. Kasumi says so if she is alive,

However, it doesn't matter. It's like giving a modern cell phone to a 16th century scientist and saying figure it out. If we just throw enough clueless geniuses at something it automatic fixes itself. The Crucible had instructions. The relays do not.

I can see them making a relay technology based on Crucible tech, but not repairing the rlays themselves within their own lifetimes. The "what if" slide shows is just intended to give false hope so people don;t cry. But people are stupid. Bioware bet on that when they feed them that polished turd.

Modifié par The Twilight God, 24 août 2012 - 05:21 .