766 réponses à ce sujet

[Auintus]

I recall being declared Andraste's champion after the ashes bit. I was merely restoring her to her true glory by destroying the only bond to her human life. Leliana is, therefore, a heretic and had to be put down for Andraste to rise as she should.
Also, did you see how the dragon's marker turned into a yellow dot after the desecration? Yellow as in ally? Totally worth it.

[Rogue Unit]

thats1evildude wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Perhaps The Warden might want to avoid getting into a physical confrontation with a force he or she may feel might outmatch his or her small, moitey crew.

What, like MORE cultists? These idiots have already thrown the bulk  of their forces at you. I find it hard to believe that any Warden would agree to work with Kolgrim out of fear.

LobselVith8 wrote...

Perhaps The Warden is concerned over what the Chantry might do if they get a hold of the ashes, given their history.

I cannot fathom that anyone would believe handing the Sacred Ashes to the Chantry would somehow be worse than aiding a group of even more fanatical dragon cultists who have spent the past few hours trying to murder you. The only way Kolgrim could appear more obviously evil is if he was stroking a white cat and boasting about the destructive power of his moon laser.

No, if you agree to hear Kolgrim out, he summons and soothes and high dragon that they claim to worship. I'd be wary of attacking him and the remainder of his allies in the presence of this "reborn Andaste".

And you seriously can't figure out how the Chantry, the most corrupt organization in Thedas, would abuse an urn of miraculous healing ashes? Besides, you aren't aiding Kolgrim. Destroying the Ashes does absolutely nothing to help him. He and his gang are a bunch of recluses that keep mostly to themselves, they can be dealt with later when you have a larger force and when they don't have a high dragon aiding them.

[Auintus]

Sure you are.
If you corrupt the ashes, the epilogue says they get more converts. Assuming you don't just come back and kill them, of course. Which sounds more evil to me than just corrupting them, but, hey, your bag of peas.

[Heimdall]

Wulfram wrote...

I'd have thought the Warden would be more likely to take an elite Chantry agent along than some crazy nun. So I don't see the motive for her to be lying.

Good point.

"Hi, I'm an agent of one of the most powerful organizations in Thedas, here to help you stop a threat to all Thedas!". Definitely sounds better than "Hi, the voices in my dreams told me to come with you!"

Frankly, I'm inclined to believe Leliana told pretty much the whole truth in Origins, if only because her the majority of her "lies" are just too extravagant and strange to be the work of a career spy.

[thats1evildude]

Rogue Unit wrote...

No, if you agree to hear Kolgrim out, he summons and soothes and high dragon that they claim to worship. I'd be wary of attacking him and the remainder of his allies in the presence of this "reborn Andaste".

The high dragon ignores you even if you kill Kolgrim. You have to actually alert the beast to your presence with a for it to attack you. That's not a persuasive argument.

Rogue Unit wrote...

And you seriously can't figure out how the Chantry, the most corrupt organization in Thedas, would abuse an urn of miraculous healing ashes? Besides, you aren't aiding Kolgrim. Destroying the Ashes does absolutely nothing to help him. He and his gang are a bunch of recluses that keep mostly to themselves, they can be dealt with later when you have a larger force and when they don't have a high dragon aiding them.

The Chantry isn't corrupt. Misguided, perhaps, but not corrupt. Revealing the Ashes to the world does nothing but turn the temple into a holy site for pilgrims.

And as Auintus said, the cultists are planning to unleash "Andraste" on Ferelden and spread their cult beyond the mountains. Kolgrim himself says so. How is giving power to a cult of dragon-worshipping, murderous fanatics less evil to helping the Chantry?

Auintus wrote...

Also, did you see how the dragon's marker turned into a yellow dot after the desecration? Yellow as in ally? Totally worth it.

I prefer killing dragons to worshipping them. Way cooler.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 05 septembre 2012 - 03:44 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Cultist wrote...
You operate at a false assumption that your point of view is the Absolute Truth.

That's becasue it is.

Are the ashes the most potent source of healing known? Yes. This is FACT.
Are they an ancient relic (and thus a historical and cultural treasure)? Yes. This is FACT.

Also, some players just don't care about sources of healing, they don't care about some cultural finds and holy relics of some religion (religion they sometimes dislike). For them, it's just a burned woman, that could be used for profit and power gains.

And that isnt' evil?
Dude, what you are describing IS textbook evil douchebaggery.

As I said, destroying the ashes is worse than talibans destroying statues of Budha.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Rawgrim wrote...
Given that she shows up as a Seeker in DA2, its a pretty clear indication that she has been working for the church for a long time. Unless they hand out seeker amulets to everyone. Its kind of a smoking gun that she has that amulet in her inventory...

You means just like anyone who has a cross symbol somewhere on their person works for the Catholic Church?
Oh wait.....

[KiwiQuiche]

Lol I did find it funny when Leliana showed up in DA2, especially when I imported a Warden who literally decapitated her.

Bioware and their railroad.

[Cultist]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
That's becasue it is.
Are the ashes the most potent source of healing known? Yes. This is FACT.
Are they an ancient relic (and thus a historical and cultural treasure)? Yes. This is FACT.

For you. Maybe. For others - that's just a burned remains of some cult leader. Why should, for example,  I respect anything called "holy relic" by people, who want to opress, discriminate and kill me? Why should I care about healing sources?

It really amuses me  how you managed to act exactly like stereotypical religious\\zealous fanatic, insulting people with different opinions and calling all your words Absolute Truth and all other ideologies false and inferior.

[Spicen]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Cultist wrote...
You operate at a false assumption that your point of view is the Absolute Truth.

That's becasue it is.

Are the ashes the most potent source of healing known? Yes. This is FACT.
Are they an ancient relic (and thus a historical and cultural treasure)? Yes. This is FACT.

Also, some players just don't care about sources of healing, they don't care about some cultural finds and holy relics of some religion (religion they sometimes dislike). For them, it's just a burned woman, that could be used for profit and power gains.

And that isnt' evil?
Dude, what you are describing IS textbook evil douchebaggery.

As I said, destroying the ashes is NOT worse than talibans destroying statues of Budha.

Ignorance at the highest Level. So you actually think that you are right and the hundreds of comments against Leliana is wrong. Just so you know, ignorance will never get you attention.

[Spicen]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

I'd have thought the Warden would be more likely to take an elite Chantry agent along than some crazy nun. So I don't see the motive for her to be lying.

Good point.

"Hi, I'm an agent of one of the most powerful organizations in Thedas, here to help you stop a threat to all Thedas!". Definitely sounds better than "Hi, the voices in my dreams told me to come with you!"

Frankly, I'm inclined to believe Leliana told pretty much the whole truth in Origins, if only because her the majority of her "lies" are just too extravagant and strange to be the work of a career spy.

Did you forget what Marjolaine said, never trust Leliana, never trust one word. Although the idea that she is a chantry agent is a theory, there are elements which makes sense.

Moreover she goes on to say that she discovered Andraste's ashes, if you let her and the ashes leave. The truth is that like every real world religious followers(not the religion itself) the Chantry will take advantage and run the place like a business firm. Just think, ten sovereigns per head and soon they will be richer than the Royal family of Orlais.

Moreover, she goes on to kill the warden, the very person she chose to follow because the maker "told" her that the warden was the key to the blight problem. She would have killed a man/woman who will save millions of lives in Fereldan- for what, some ashes of a long dead women. The height of her crime crosses the "crime" of Anders by ten folds. And i have to say she is worse than Anders. Atleast Anders has a demon in his head, and he is trying to control it, but as for Leliana, she has no demons but yet goes on to cause a crime that would have crippled Thedas.

My Verdict: Due to her ignorance of the crime she almost caused, she will be hanged until death.....................oh wait she is still alive but as the verdict goes, hanged until DEATH.

[whykikyouwhy]

Spicen wrote...

Did you forget what Marjolaine said, never trust Leliana, never trust one word. Although the idea that she is a chantry agent is a theory, there are elements which makes sense.

 
Marjolaine advises the Warden to not trust Leliana because Marjolaine trained her, she knows what she is capable of. But just because someone is capable of doing something does not mean that they want to or will. Leliana may have the capacity to manipulate and deceive, but that doesn't necessarily mean that she does so in every interaction that she has. 

As for this:

 
Moreover, she goes on to kill the warden, the very person she chose to follow because the maker "told" her that the warden was the key to the blight problem.
 

 
When does she kill the Warden? She does attack the Warden, if she is in the party when the Warden defiles the ashes (something sacred to those following the path of the Maker), but the Warden doesn't die by her hand. Unless you're trying to say that dialogue about the Warden's whereabouts at the end of DA2 implies demise. In which case, that would be speculation - both that the Warden is dead and that Leliana had something to do with it. Speculation is hardly fact.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Cultist wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
That's becasue it is.
Are the ashes the most potent source of healing known? Yes. This is FACT.
Are they an ancient relic (and thus a historical and cultural treasure)? Yes. This is FACT.

For you. Maybe. For others - that's just a burned remains of some cult leader. Why should, for example,  I respect anything called "holy relic" by people, who want to opress, discriminate and kill me? Why should I care about healing sources?

If something is a fact than it is. One can try to ignore it, but i's not "for me".

I'm sorry, but the definition is spot on.
Culutral and historical treasure is a cultural and historical treasure by it's very nature - regardless what you think of it. I can think Mona Lisa a crap painting, but that doesn't stop it from being a cultural and historical treasure.

Historical treasures belong to the whole world b.t.w.
"It's not part of my specific culture, so let's trash it" is douchebaggery
And - as stated before - Andraste was instrumental in freeing the elves. So an elf desecrating her ashes is also douchebaggery.


And if you know of a more potent source of healing (epsecially one that can be used so simply by people), do tell.


So far you only attempt at rebuttal has been "I do not care nor does my character"

It really amuses me  how you managed to act exactly like stereotypical religiouszealous fanatic, insulting people with different opinions and calling all your words Absolute Truth and all other ideologies false and inferior.

What amuses me is how you think you sound any better, when it is in fact you that demonstrates far more zeal and hate.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Spicen wrote...
Ignorance at the highest Level. So you actually think that you are right and the hundreds of comments against Leliana is wrong. Just so you know, ignorance will never get you attention.

Ignorance implies lack of knowledge on the subject matter.

Given that I backed everything I said with concrete fact, your analysis of my cahracter fails.

Did you forget what Marjolaine said, never trust Leliana, never trust
one word. Although the idea that she is a chantry agent is a theory,
there are elements which makes sense.

And there are elements that don't, and she has been specificly confirmed by the devs as NOt an agent.

Moreover she goes on to say
that she discovered Andraste's ashes, if you let her and the ashes
leave. The truth is that like every real world religious followers(not
the religion itself) the Chantry will take advantage and run the place
like a business firm. Just think, ten sovereigns per head and soon they
will be richer than the Royal family of Orlais.

People will be poeple.
On the whole, the healing properties of the ashes are bound to do good and will save many.
Also, the ashes and the temple will increase the historical knowledge of Thedas.

Moreover, she
goes on to kill the warden, the very person she chose to follow because
the maker "told" her that the warden was the key to the blight problem.
She would have killed a man/woman who will save millions of lives in
Fereldan- for what, some ashes of a long dead women.

The Maker didn't exactly tell her that. If you paid attention you'd know that.
And there is no way to know what the Warden will do or how important he will be - you can't forget that no one knows that the PC is the protagonist and thus the chosen one.
The Wardens future role CANNOT be used as an argument as it imples knowledge of the future.

And if you truly think it's just because of "ashes of a dead woman" then you truly show your ignorance about religion in general.
The Warden spit on one of the most important things in the universe. It would be like the Warden killing your mother in front of you. Would you agree with me if I told you you were crazy for attackign him? After all, it "just" a woman. She means nothing to me, so you must be crazy.

Part of understanding and tolerance is also understanding how important some things can be to other people and respect that.

The height of her
crime crosses the "crime" of Anders by ten folds..

BWahahahahahahahahahaha :lol::lol:
Oh, you so funny.

[Spicen]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Spicen wrote...

Did you forget what Marjolaine said, never trust Leliana, never trust one word. Although the idea that she is a chantry agent is a theory, there are elements which makes sense.

 
Marjolaine advises the Warden to not trust Leliana because Marjolaine trained her, she knows what she is capable of. But just because someone is capable of doing something does not mean that they want to or will. Leliana may have the capacity to manipulate and deceive, but that doesn't necessarily mean that she does so in every interaction that she has. 

As for this:

 
Moreover, she goes on to kill the warden, the very person she chose to follow because the maker "told" her that the warden was the key to the blight problem.
 

 
When does she kill the Warden? She does attack the Warden, if she is in the party when the Warden defiles the ashes (something sacred to those following the path of the Maker), but the Warden doesn't die by her hand. Unless you're trying to say that dialogue about the Warden's whereabouts at the end of DA2 implies demise. In which case, that would be speculation - both that the Warden is dead and that Leliana had something to do with it. Speculation is hardly fact.

Sorry, maybe it was not the right word, i meant that she TRIED to kill the warden.

[Spicen]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Spicen wrote...
Ignorance at the highest Level. So you actually think that you are right and the hundreds of comments against Leliana is wrong. Just so you know, ignorance will never get you attention.

Ignorance implies lack of knowledge on the subject matter.

Given that I backed everything I said with concrete fact, your analysis of my cahracter fails.

Did you forget what Marjolaine said, never trust Leliana, never trust
one word. Although the idea that she is a chantry agent is a theory,
there are elements which makes sense.

And there are elements that don't, and she has been specificly confirmed by the devs as NOt an agent.

Moreover she goes on to say
that she discovered Andraste's ashes, if you let her and the ashes
leave. The truth is that like every real world religious followers(not
the religion itself) the Chantry will take advantage and run the place
like a business firm. Just think, ten sovereigns per head and soon they
will be richer than the Royal family of Orlais.

People will be poeple.
On the whole, the healing properties of the ashes are bound to do good and will save many.
Also, the ashes and the temple will increase the historical knowledge of Thedas.

Moreover, she
goes on to kill the warden, the very person she chose to follow because
the maker "told" her that the warden was the key to the blight problem.
She would have killed a man/woman who will save millions of lives in
Fereldan- for what, some ashes of a long dead women.

The Maker didn't exactly tell her that. If you paid attention you'd know that.
And there is no way to know what the Warden will do or how important he will be - you can't forget that no one knows that the PC is the protagonist and thus the chosen one.
The Wardens future role CANNOT be used as an argument as it imples knowledge of the future.

And if you truly think it's just because of "ashes of a dead woman" then you truly show your ignorance about religion in general.
The Warden spit on one of the most important things in the universe. It would be like the Warden killing your mother in front of you. Would you agree with me if I told you you were crazy for attackign him? After all, it "just" a woman. She means nothing to me, so you must be crazy.

Part of understanding and tolerance is also understanding how important some things can be to other people and respect that.

The height of her
crime crosses the "crime" of Anders by ten folds..

BWahahahahahahahahahaha :lol::lol:
Oh, you so funny.

1)You did not back anything, sorry. You are one-dimensional. By the way are you a communist, if you are then you should know that this thread is not for Communists. Your word IS NOT LAW.
2) The temple if left in one piece will be a Chantry Commercial bazaar for selling ahses, jewelleries, amulets,etc
3)The warden CAN be used, when asked alistair if we can leave Fereldan, he says they are the last hope for Ferelda. It is an established fact. Darkspawn Chronicles was made to show what would happen if the warden didnt make it. And puh-lease, dont use this "logic" again. Make a thread about "The bight could be stopped without warden" and you will be DONE for, i challenge you.
4)No, it is no joke LEliana is WORSE than the mage Anders, so i kept him alive. Leliana is an extremist terrorist and thus shud have gotten death as a reward.

Modifié par Spicen, 05 septembre 2012 - 10:13 .

[Cultist]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
If something is a fact than it is. One can try to ignore it, but i's not "for me".

I'm sorry, but the definition is spot on.
Culutral and historical treasure is a cultural and historical treasure by it's very nature - regardless what you think of it. I can think Mona Lisa a crap painting, but that doesn't stop it from being a cultural and historical treasure.

Historical treasures belong to the whole world b.t.w.
"It's not part of my specific culture, so let's trash it" is douchebaggery
And - as stated before - Andraste was instrumental in freeing the elves. So an elf desecrating her ashes is also douchebaggery.

And if you know of a more potent source of healing (epsecially one that can be used so simply by people), do tell.
So far you only attempt at rebuttal has been "I do not care nor does my character"

And whole lot of people with fancy hats cry in ecstasy when looking at Malevich's Black Square, yet others think it's a garbage. It seems that you can't understand that all that "treasures belong to the world", healing sources and stuff is absolutely meaningless due to subjectivism. Relics, historical treasures and arts were destroyed in cultural conflicts throughout entire human history.

What amuses me is how you think you sound any better, when it is in fact you that demonstrates far more zeal and hate.

The difference is that I can accept templar, elven, tevinter, chantry, qunari, orlesian and other "logic" and reasoning. I will strongly disagree and oppose some of them ideologically but will never call them wrong, stupid, douchebaggery or else.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Spicen wrote...
1)You did not back anything, sorry. You are one-dimensional. By the way are you a communist, if you are then you should know that this thread is not for Communists. Your word IS NOT LAW.

Eh? You are typign things but notm akign any sense.
One-dimensional? Communist? WTF does that have to do with anything.

It seems I broke your brain...

2) The temple if left in one piece will be a Chantry Commercial bazaar for selling ahses, jewelleries, amulets,etc

So?
It's human nature. It's mercantilism. It's has zero to do with the Chantry s it can eb seen everywhere. Teh Leaning tower of pisa..the Louvre.
And some people will make a living out of it. Not that bad.

What is your solution? Destroy every object of significane to anyone? Kill all humans?

3)The warden CAN be used, when asked alistair if we can leave Fereldan, he says they are the last hope for Ferelda. It is an established fact. Darkspawn Chronicles was made to show what would happen if the warden didnt make it. And puh-lease, dont use this "logic" again. Make a thread about "The bight could be stopped without warden" and you will be DONE for, i challenge you.

No, he can't.
Not even Alistair knows only a GW can perma-kill an archdemon.

And no, Darkspawn Chronicles is one of MANY, POSSIBLE what-ifs. Confirmed by devs. It's also non-canon.


You obviiously don't know how logic works....but go ahead. Continue making a fool of yourself.

4)No, it is no joke LEliana is WORSE than the mage Anders, so i kept him alive. Leliana is an extremist terrorist and thus shud have gotten death as a reward.

Eh? Leliana an extremist?
Leliana is mild in that regard.
Now it's perfectly obvios you're talking out of your hind quarters.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Cultist wrote...

And whole lot of people with fancy hats cry in ecstasy when looking at Malevich's Black Square, yet others think it's a garbage. It seems that you can't understand that all that "treasures belong to the world", healing sources and stuff is absolutely meaningless due to subjectivism. Relics, historical treasures and arts were destroyed in cultural conflicts throughout entire human history.

And it's a damn shame tehy were. Humanity is poorer for it.

If you think you can subjectivize everything, go ahead and try.
But you know damn well just as I that the entire modern world consider destruction of cultural and historical treasures a despicalbe crime.
It shows a compelte lack or caring and respect.

Heling is irrelevant? Shows an even bigger lack of caring.


I hope you realise that with every word you type you just keep proving me more and more right.

From your words and justifications, your Warden is a uncaring, selfish, self-righteus douche.

What amuses me is how you think you sound any better, when it is in fact you that demonstrates far more zeal and hate.

The difference is that I can accept templar, elven, tevinter, chantry, qunari, orlesian and other "logic" and reasoning. I will strongly disagree and oppose some of them ideologically but will never call them wrong, stupid, douchebaggery or else.

Lip service is irrelevant. And what does templar/quanri/orlesian logic got to do with this?

For all your claims, you have proven to hate Leliana and the Chantry so much, that the claim of your unbias is laughable.

And I CAN call cerain behavior douchebaggery - because it is.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

I think many haters here would hate this one threefold or more:




But I still respected her, till she was persuaded by Kreia.

[Cultist]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
And it's a damn shame tehy were. Humanity is poorer for it.

If you think you can subjectivize everything, go ahead and try.
But you know damn well just as I that the entire modern world consider destruction of cultural and historical treasures a despicalbe crime.
It shows a compelte lack or caring and respect.

I hope you realise that with every word you type you just keep proving me more and more right.
From your words and justifications, your Warden is a uncaring, selfish, self-righteus douche.

It will be surprise for you but Dragon Age is medieval setting, not "modern". And it was numerous times said here that you can kill Leliana for various reasons, I simply voiced mine, which happen to be Chantry support and ser opposition to Blood Magic.

Lip service is irrelevant. And what does templar/quanri/orlesian logic got to do with this?
For all your claims, you have proven to hate Leliana and the Chantry so much, that the claim of your unbias is laughable.
And I CAN call cerain behavior douchebaggery - because it is.

I stated my dislike for Chantry and Leliana at the very first post in this topic. But, unlike you, never insulted those, who disagreed with me. To be honest, I know that it is pointless to argue with people with motto "I am always right because I can't be wrong", but this conversation amuses me.
And when you stated that Anders is evil and should be killed, I wonder how would you react, should BioWare retcon him once again? 
See, he's a man of great courage, who is not afraid to take responsibility for first step in the war for freedom and against the opression. Why not bring him back?))))

[Lotion Soronarr]

Cultist wrote...

It will be surprise for you but Dragon Age is medieval setting, not "modern". And it was numerous times said here that you can kill Leliana for various reasons, I simply voiced mine, which happen to be Chantry support and ser opposition to Blood Magic.

That doesn't change the morals.
Uncaring and hate are despicable. Deal with it.

And all justifications aside, what your warden does IS evil.
Plain and simple. Hate-fueld destruction and desecration. Leliana is a good-natured Character.

Yes, I'm sure Hannibal Lecter and Hitler all thought tehy were goo peopel and what they were doing was good. Just like your Warden.

I stated my dislike for Chantry and Leliana at the very first post in this topic. But, unlike you, never insulted those, who disagreed with me.

Did you now? I called your Warden (not you) a douche, because what he did was douchy.

To be honest, I know that it is pointless to argue with people with motto "I am always right because I can't be wrong", but this conversation amuses me.

Change that to "I am right because I can prove it" and you might be closer to th truth.

And when you stated that Anders is evil and should be killed, I wonder how would you react, should BioWare retcon him once again?

With a "meh".
For one I'd see it coming, so it wouldnt' phase me.
For another I wasn't happy or gleeful when I did kill him. I didn't hate him.

[Cultist]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
That doesn't change the morals.
Uncaring and hate are despicable. Deal with it.

And all justifications aside, what your warden does IS evil.
Plain and simple. Hate-fueld destruction and desecration. Leliana is a good-natured Character.

It does change morals. Morals change all the time. And I never said that what my Warden done was not ruthless, merciless and selfish. Yet I never stated that everyone, who act different from me and NOT kill Leliana are idiots, stupid people, who are wrong wrong wrong.

Did you now? I called your Warden (not you) a douche, because what he did was douchy.

It's no different than saying "All Wardens, who supported elves instead of werewolves, are stupid idiots"

Change that to "I am right because I can prove it" and you might be closer to th truth.

You, once again, fasely assume, that your arguments are that Absolute Truth I mentioned earlier. "God wills it" once were considered proof enough to justify anything.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Cultist wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
That doesn't change the morals.
Uncaring and hate are despicable. Deal with it.

And all justifications aside, what your warden does IS evil.
Plain and simple. Hate-fueld destruction and desecration. Leliana is a good-natured Character.

It does change morals. Morals change all the time. And I never said that what my Warden done was not ruthless, merciless and selfish. Yet I never stated that everyone, who act different from me and NOT kill Leliana are idiots, stupid people, who are wrong wrong wrong.

Neither did I.
I did said that killing Leleiana and desecrating the ashes is evil. Ruthless, merciless and selfish - kinda fits the domain of evil, no?
I also said that trusting Kolgrim is stupid.

Did you now? I called your Warden (not you) a douche, because what he did was douchy.

It's no different than saying "All Wardens, who supported elves instead of werewolves, are stupid idiots"

Not the same thing, but lets suppose it is the same thing.
So what?
Your'e saing I'm not allowed to point out stupid decisions?

You, once again, fasely assume, that your arguments are that Absolute Truth I mentioned earlier. "God wills it" once were considered proof enough to justify anything.

Except that is a catch phrase and not proof.

Do we have to get back to the whole "justifying" argument? I thought we were pass it.
Look, I can justify to myself skinning you alive, that doesn't make it right.

[Auintus]

The main reason I want her dead again (at least on the one file) is that when she shows up in the second one she says something like, "The Maker decided it was not my time." The maker's undoing my work. I wish to correct that.
Also Lotion, Cultist, start up a comedy routine, you guys are great. Unless you're serious...that would be unfortunate.