766 réponses à ce sujet

[Auintus]

I think it comes down to the fact that there was no reason to preserve the ashes. I get the pinch I need for Eamon and the rest is none of my concern. I also get the Reaver abilities. I'm winning all over the place.

[Heimdall]

Auintus wrote...

I think it comes down to the fact that there was no reason to preserve the ashes. I get the pinch I need for Eamon and the rest is none of my concern. I also get the Reaver abilities. I'm winning all over the place.

Rather self centered, don't you think?

[Auintus]

Very. The world has gotten by without the ashes for a long time, no need to interfere with a good thing.
Though, to be fair, I have a file where they were defiled, one where they were concealed(didn't bring Genetivi along), and one where they were revealed to the world. Just sharing Garth Cousland's feelings on the matter.

[Heimdall]

Auintus wrote...

Very. The world has gotten by without the ashes for a long time, no need to interfere with a good thing.
Though, to be fair, I have a file where they were defiled, one where they were concealed(didn't bring Genetivi along), and one where they were revealed to the world. Just sharing Garth Cousland's feelings on the matter.

Uh huh, miraculous healing powers couldn't possible help anyone.

[Auintus]

 Or some carta dealers could sell dust and claim it's holy ash. Not that anyone could possibly think of that.
Just seems like they're more trouble than they're worth.

Modifié par Auintus, 06 septembre 2012 - 04:44 .

[Rawgrim]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...
Having fun killing a videogame character isn`t the same as having fun killing a real human. Just saying it. I have had alot of fun shooting my friends in fps games. I guess that makes be a downright bad person, and evil.

It isn't the same, but it does show a level of bloodlust and hate.

Also FPS shootout and character in a world who have personality and a history- not the same.

Never any bloodlust involved when i play with my friends. All fun.

What about fps games where you can play as characters in the single player campaign? You could play as Luke Skywalker and chebacca etc in Jedi Academy. Those have personality, and history too. Does this make me evil? Playing as stormtrooper and shooting my friend in a fps, while he was playing Luke Skywalker?

[Rawgrim]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Auintus wrote...

I think it comes down to the fact that there was no reason to preserve the ashes. I get the pinch I need for Eamon and the rest is none of my concern. I also get the Reaver abilities. I'm winning all over the place.

Rather self centered, don't you think?

Duncan explains it very well. The only duty the warden has, is to save the world from the blight. Anything else is secondary.

[Heimdall]

Rawgrim wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Auintus wrote...

I think it comes down to the fact that there was no reason to preserve the ashes. I get the pinch I need for Eamon and the rest is none of my concern. I also get the Reaver abilities. I'm winning all over the place.

Rather self centered, don't you think?

Duncan explains it very well. The only duty the warden has, is to save the world from the blight. Anything else is secondary.

Once again, miraculous healing power.  Can't imagine a possible use the Grey Wardens might have for something like that beyond the immediate Arl Eamon situation.  Something like that has great utility.

[Auintus]

what? Are they supposed to haul a dead woman's remains all over Thedas because they might run into another situation that magic can't solve?

[Face of Evil]

I can't believe that anyone would spoil the Ashes to get the severely-underpowered Reaver specialization. Seriously, that specialization is as weak as day-old ******. That's like murdering your family for a Klondike bar.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 06 septembre 2012 - 05:26 .

[Auintus]

Maybe, but I didn't really like berserker or templar. Aura of pain is also fairly useful when surrounded.

[Auintus]

Face of Evil wrote...

That's like murdering your family for a Klondike bar.

And?

[Face of Evil]

Auintus wrote...

Maybe, but I didn't really like berserker or templar. Aura of pain is also fairly useful when surrounded.

So is the War Cry ability from the Champion specialization, which you get for free. Reaver is just weaksauce. I think I gave it to Oghren in Awakening solely for the stat bonus.

Auintus wrote...

Face of Evil wrote...

That's like murdering your family for a Klondike bar.

And?

Well, I suppose you benefit in some small way, but I would think the inconvenience of the clean-up alone would overshadow the ice cream sandwich.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 06 septembre 2012 - 05:41 .

[Rawgrim]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Auintus wrote...

I think it comes down to the fact that there was no reason to preserve the ashes. I get the pinch I need for Eamon and the rest is none of my concern. I also get the Reaver abilities. I'm winning all over the place.

Rather self centered, don't you think?

Duncan explains it very well. The only duty the warden has, is to save the world from the blight. Anything else is secondary.

Once again, miraculous healing power.  Can't imagine a possible use the Grey Wardens might have for something like that beyond the immediate Arl Eamon situation.  Something like that has great utility.

Metagaming. Warden didn`t know the ashes would work untill he tried it. + The cult had a dragon. If the warden would have to fight a dragon, he might have died, and thereby having no chance at ending the blight. Plenty was to look at it. Easier to find the "correct way", in the second playthrough...

[Rawgrim]

Face of Evil wrote...

I can't believe that anyone would spoil the Ashes to get the severely-underpowered Reaver specialization. Seriously, that specialization is as weak as day-old ******. That's like murdering your family for a Klondike bar.

And did you know how weak the specialization was the first time you got it?

[Face of Evil]

Rawgrim wrote...

Face of Evil wrote...

I can't believe that anyone would spoil the Ashes to get the severely-underpowered Reaver specialization. Seriously, that specialization is as weak as day-old ******. That's like murdering your family for a Klondike bar.

And did you know how weak the specialization was the first time you got it?

If you're going to accuse me of metagaming, I would note that Kolgrim never mentions giving you the specialization in exchange for your service, so you're metagaming if you spoil the Ashes to get it anyway.

Seriously, if I had actually spoiled the Ashes on my first playthrough and my reward was joining the Reaver club — a specialization that my rogue couldn't use — I would have killed Kolgrim on the spot. That's like defeating the Archdemon and getting a wheelbarrow full of horse dung as a trophy.

"Thanks for saving the world, Warden! In recognition of your service, here's a pile of s**t!"
"My, that is some lovely filth. I like how it glistens in the light and draws clouds of flies."

Modifié par Face of Evil, 06 septembre 2012 - 06:06 .

[Heimdall]

Rawgrim wrote...

Metagaming. Warden didn`t know the ashes would work untill he tried it. + The cult had a dragon. If the warden would have to fight a dragon, he might have died, and thereby having no chance at ending the blight. Plenty was to look at it. Easier to find the "correct way", in the second playthrough...

Not metagaming.  If my Warden had no faith the Ashes would work he would not have wasted valuable time searching for them rather than, say, heading off to Orzammar to treat with the Dwarves.  Besides, the curious phenomena surrounding the Ashes gave even my Dalish some inkling that there was a decent chance the Ashes weren't duds.  Besides, worst case scenario, couldn't he just come back and dump some dragon blood on the Ashes?

On the subject of the dragon, the Warden doesn't know he'll have to fight the dragon and if the warden were opposed to risking his life he would have high tailed it to Orlais.

[deuce985]

Dang, this thread is still going? Reading some responses, I thought I was a terrible friend/companion.



And that's ok. Just don't come in my world and burn it.

Modifié par deuce985, 06 septembre 2012 - 06:56 .

[Rawgrim]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Metagaming. Warden didn`t know the ashes would work untill he tried it. + The cult had a dragon. If the warden would have to fight a dragon, he might have died, and thereby having no chance at ending the blight. Plenty was to look at it. Easier to find the "correct way", in the second playthrough...

Not metagaming.  If my Warden had no faith the Ashes would work he would not have wasted valuable time searching for them rather than, say, heading off to Orzammar to treat with the Dwarves.  Besides, the curious phenomena surrounding the Ashes gave even my Dalish some inkling that there was a decent chance the Ashes weren't duds.  Besides, worst case scenario, couldn't he just come back and dump some dragon blood on the Ashes?

On the subject of the dragon, the Warden doesn't know he'll have to fight the dragon and if the warden were opposed to risking his life he would have high tailed it to Orlais.

YOUR warden. Not everyone elses warden. Thats the key of the whole discussion. My first warden was a fellow that never sided with religious people, didn`t belive in religion (second one was more or less a templar). So while playing in character, he defiled the ashes, after taking a pinch of it, just in case it did work.

[Auintus]

Face of Evil wrote...

Auintus wrote...

Maybe, but I didn't really like berserker or templar. Aura of pain is also fairly useful when surrounded.

So is the War Cry ability from the Champion specialization, which you get for free. Reaver is just weaksauce. I think I gave it to Oghren in Awakening solely for the stat bonus.

Auintus wrote...

Face of Evil wrote...

That's like murdering your family for a Klondike bar.

And?

Well, I suppose you benefit in some small way, but I would think the inconvenience of the clean-up alone would overshadow the ice cream sandwich.

I did use champion. More than reaver probably. Rally was basically always active and War cry was awesome with superiority.
I just found frightening appearance useful to keep from getting overwhelmed. I scared an ogre with it. 'Twas awesome.

Modifié par Auintus, 06 septembre 2012 - 07:46 .

[Auintus]

deuce985 wrote...
And that's ok. Just don't come in my world and burn it.

See? This guy's got it figured out. I'm not defiling your Sacred Ashes.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Spicen wrote...
No, considering she hardly reacted when kolgrim gave the warden the offer, i thought she really knew how desperate the situation is. But then i defile the ashes and lo, she says" How dare you defile the ashes, time to die." Atleast when kolgrim gave the offer she should have said, "Mr. Warden Andraste is the maker's bride, dont destroy her last pieces, please, i am religious and i need to defend it if need be." But NO, that arrogant bi*ch said,"i dont think this is a good idea."

Maybe she was thinking you were bluffing Kolgrim.
Why not? It's perfectly reasonable. You get pass him avoiding a fight.

But hte very fact that she said "I dont' think that's a good idea" means she doesn't support it. And the tone was one of disbelief. She didn't think you'd do it.

How is that arrogant?

Unusable argument, eh? How long havnt you played DAO. There was Alistair, Eamon and etc, etc who told that the warden was the last hope. Gaming lore specifies 100 times that the Warden is the only key. Do you think Flemeth saved the warden out of charity? Oh, she saved Alistair because she knows that it is important for Alistair to be the king of fereldan. So yees, killing the warden would have resulted into the fall of Fereldan.
If you do not believe the FACTS then i have nothing more to say to you.

Unusable argument because it cannot be logicly used as a REASONABLE DEDUCTION.
Using out-of-character knowledge AND knowlege of future events does not belong in any discussion about the validity of decision making.

No. The Warden isn't the only one. There is Alistair. Riordan. all the other Grey Wardens in the world.
The Warden isn't the only one who can save the world - and practicly no one knows just how important GW's are.
So no, you cannot even know for sure if Killing the Warden would case the fall of Ferelden.

Here i point out that you do not read properly. I said that it was a time of desperation- you know DESPERATION, Lothering has fallen, the army at Ostagar has fallen, the whole Fereldan in civil war, in such a situation the warden would have been in serious doubt that he can save Fereldan, if it happend in real time. If i was in his shoes i would have taken the offer of Kolgrim, because i would have been in a situation of disarray. Desperation would force me to take the option. Sacrifices have to be made. Leliana should have been ready to sacrifice too. But instead she went on the attack and got what she deserved. As i said it was my 1st playthrough, where i usually make decisions which i would have made in real life.

Which makes you short-sighted and stupid.
You choose to defile the ashes for the power to stop the Blight.
How exactly does the reaver power help stop it? You can swing your sword a bit faster...yeah. Your'e still one guy and that won't help you at all agaisnt a million darkspawn. It is utterly insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

You know what would help? Chantry support. Which is something you would get if you save the ashes. It's only the practicly most important artifact in the Andrastian religion. The Divine would defiantely have your back... and with you you'd have the support of most of the world.

Then we have the healing properties of the ashes. Which not only could be used to save many a soldeirs from dying, but possibly even prevent people from succumbing to the Blight.

And lastly the ashes themsevles are very simbolic. Especially with such a power, they would be a potent symbol around which to gather an army.

And if the word gets out of what you did (and it probably will. You got a bunch of companions, it's bound to slip out sooner or later), 90% of the world will want your head on a pike. that kinda makes it hard ot fight the Blight, doesn't it?

Leliana was the smart one. The Ashes do more for your cause than reaver power.
As you said - sacrifices have to be made. And a very stupid and evil warden is a small sacrifice.

Saving the ashes does not doom anyone, killing the warden dooms everyone.

Which is impossible for the Warden (or anyone else) to know, making it a non-argument.

And how did you know that destroying hte ashes wouldn't have negative consequences. Maybe tainting tehm makes them explode? Or causes the whole temple to crumble, burrying you alive? Maybe it will make the Maker very angry (and the last two time he was angry, it didn't bode well for the entire world).
And lastly, what about all the people who could have been healed with the power of the ashes? Aren't they doomed when you destroy them?

[Lotion Soronarr]

Auintus wrote...

 Or some carta dealers could sell dust and claim it's holy ash. Not that anyone could possibly think of that.
Just seems like they're more trouble than they're worth.

What retarded logic.
Let's destroy penicilin, because con-artists will make fake drugs that aren't good for you! BRILLIANT!

[Lotion Soronarr]

Rawgrim wrote...
Never any bloodlust involved when i play with my friends. All fun.

I was reffering to SP RPG's, not CoD multi.

What about fps games where you can play as characters in the single player campaign? You could play as Luke Skywalker and chebacca etc in Jedi Academy. Those have personality, and history too. Does this make me evil? Playing as stormtrooper and shooting my friend in a fps, while he was playing Luke Skywalker?

Not really, they are just skins.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Rawgrim wrote...
YOUR warden. Not everyone elses warden. Thats the key of the whole discussion. My first warden was a fellow that never sided with religious people, didn`t belive in religion (second one was more or less a templar). So while playing in character, he defiled the ashes, after taking a pinch of it, just in case it did work.

In other words, your character wasa douche who liked to attack other peoples beliefs whenever he could?