766 réponses à ce sujet

[Rawgrim]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Auintus wrote...

 Or some carta dealers could sell dust and claim it's holy ash. Not that anyone could possibly think of that.
Just seems like they're more trouble than they're worth.

What retarded logic.
Let's destroy penicilin, because con-artists will make fake drugs that aren't good for you! BRILLIANT!

And how much ash is there to go around? They can`t reproduce that ash to make enough for everyone who needs it. It would end up being a select few who got to use it.  So its not really penecillin then, is it?

[Rawgrim]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...
Never any bloodlust involved when i play with my friends. All fun.

I was reffering to SP RPG's, not CoD multi.

What about fps games where you can play as characters in the single player campaign? You could play as Luke Skywalker and chebacca etc in Jedi Academy. Those have personality, and history too. Does this make me evil? Playing as stormtrooper and shooting my friend in a fps, while he was playing Luke Skywalker?

Not really, they are just skins.

I wasn`t reffering to CoD multi either. Can`t stand CoD, to be honest.


Well, they are skins. But they are also voiced, and they feature in the single player campaign, so its not like nobody knows who the characters are. By this logic, killing Leliana if she just has a cameo in DA3 or whatever, would be ok. Since in that game she is not fleshed out.

[Rawgrim]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...
YOUR warden. Not everyone elses warden. Thats the key of the whole discussion. My first warden was a fellow that never sided with religious people, didn`t belive in religion (second one was more or less a templar). So while playing in character, he defiled the ashes, after taking a pinch of it, just in case it did work.

In other words, your character wasa douche who liked to attack other peoples beliefs whenever he could?

Nope. He didn`t attack anyone from the chantry whenever he could. Where did you get that idea? Jumping to conclusions? He never (hardly ever) SIDED with the chantry. Its a roleplaying thing. He did side with the cult, however, and Leliana attacked him. The game is full of gray choices, not all is black and white. Allthough some people only see things in black and white, I do remember the devs saying alot of the choices in the game would be very grayish. This was one of them.  As a side note: In my second playthough, I didn`t side with the cult. Just because I knew the result of the choice fully, after playing through the game earlier.

[Auintus]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Auintus wrote...

 Or some carta dealers could sell dust and claim it's holy ash. Not that anyone could possibly think of that.
Just seems like they're more trouble than they're worth.

What retarded logic.
Let's destroy penicilin, because con-artists will make fake drugs that aren't good for you! BRILLIANT!

Try argueing reasonably instead of skipping straight to the insults. I don't know you that well yet.
The ashes aren't neccesary. Eamon was one of the few instances when ordinary magic just wasn't good enough. Normally, magic could deal with illness and injury, if the chantry weren't so hellbent on interfering. Also, if someone takes penicilin from just anybody, they deserve whatever they get.

[Heimdall]

Rawgrim wrote...

YOUR warden. Not everyone elses warden. Thats the key of the whole discussion. My first warden was a fellow that never sided with religious people, didn`t belive in religion (second one was more or less a templar). So while playing in character, he defiled the ashes, after taking a pinch of it, just in case it did work.

So?  My point was that there was no metagaming involved.

[Heimdall]

Rawgrim wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Auintus wrote...

 Or some carta dealers could sell dust and claim it's holy ash. Not that anyone could possibly think of that.
Just seems like they're more trouble than they're worth.

What retarded logic.
Let's destroy penicilin, because con-artists will make fake drugs that aren't good for you! BRILLIANT!

And how much ash is there to go around? They can`t reproduce that ash to make enough for everyone who needs it. It would end up being a select few who got to use it.  So its not really penecillin then, is it?

. So...  Not everybody can get it so nobody should get it?

[Rawgrim]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Auintus wrote...

 Or some carta dealers could sell dust and claim it's holy ash. Not that anyone could possibly think of that.
Just seems like they're more trouble than they're worth.

What retarded logic.
Let's destroy penicilin, because con-artists will make fake drugs that aren't good for you! BRILLIANT!

And how much ash is there to go around? They can`t reproduce that ash to make enough for everyone who needs it. It would end up being a select few who got to use it.  So its not really penecillin then, is it?

. So...  Not everybody can get it so nobody should get it?

Lets say some select few gets it. And everybody knows a select few gets it...I am sure you could see how people with dying relatives would react to that. Picture a cure for cancer, or something like that. Ploiticians gets it, the rest of the world doesn`t. I suspect that might end in a very violent confrontation. I don`t think something like that would be a good thing during\\right after a blight. Just one way of looking at it.

[Rawgrim]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

YOUR warden. Not everyone elses warden. Thats the key of the whole discussion. My first warden was a fellow that never sided with religious people, didn`t belive in religion (second one was more or less a templar). So while playing in character, he defiled the ashes, after taking a pinch of it, just in case it did work.

So?  My point was that there was no metagaming involved.

I guess you missed my point entirely...

[Heimdall]

Rawgrim wrote...

Lets say some select few gets it. And everybody knows a select few gets it...I am sure you could see how people with dying relatives would react to that. Picture a cure for cancer, or something like that. Ploiticians gets it, the rest of the world doesn`t. I suspect that might end in a very violent confrontation. I don`t think something like that would be a good thing duringright after a blight. Just one way of looking at it.

Better to save a few critical people, like say Arl Eamon, then to let the the nation stew in chaos looking for new leadership with a Blight bearing down on them.  Maybe it could have a violent result in time but, as we know, it certainly has its uses.

[Heimdall]

Rawgrim wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

YOUR warden. Not everyone elses warden. Thats the key of the whole discussion. My first warden was a fellow that never sided with religious people, didn`t belive in religion (second one was more or less a templar). So while playing in character, he defiled the ashes, after taking a pinch of it, just in case it did work.

So?  My point was that there was no metagaming involved.

I guess you missed my point entirely...

If my method was not metagaming and was a valid way to role play my Warden in that situation, I don't really see why you commented, perhaps you missed my point.

[Gallimatia]

Face of Evil wrote...

I can't believe that anyone would spoil the Ashes to get the severely-underpowered Reaver specialization. Seriously, that specialization is as weak as day-old ******. That's like murdering your family for a Klondike bar.

That's nonsense. The Reaver specialization is almost required for a solo warrior playthrough. Two talent points to get a good single target disable and a useable heal. It is only the third and forth ability that's as bad as what you find in the Berserker tree. That is where you should look if you want a useless specialization. It's perhaps decent on consoles where it adds stamina regen with a three point investment but on PC it drains stamina while adding inconsequential damage, unacceptable. Templar offers pitiful utility compared to Reaver and only rank above it on account of being required to wear Templar Commander Armor.

Modifié par Gallimatia, 07 septembre 2012 - 03:22 .

[Face of Evil]

Gallimatia wrote...

Face of Evil wrote...

I can't believe that anyone would spoil the Ashes to get the severely-underpowered Reaver specialization. Seriously, that specialization is as weak as day-old ******. That's like murdering your family for a Klondike bar.

That's nonsense. The Reaver specialization is almost required for a solo warrior playthrough. Two talent points to get a good single target disable and a useable heal. It is only the third and forth ability that's as bad as what you find in the Berserker tree. That is where you should look if you want a useless specialization. It's perhaps decent on consoles where it adds stamina regen with a three point investment but on PC it drains stamina while adding inconsequential damage, unacceptable. Templar offers pitiful utility compared to Reaver and only rank above it on account of being required to wear Templar Commander Armor.

Ugh, I'll have to take your word for it. I find solo playthroughs as tedious as watching paint dry. 

My experience is that, in group play, Reaver stinks. It's not quite as bad as Shapechanger, but it's still pretty useless.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 07 septembre 2012 - 03:27 .

[Gallimatia]

Reaver skills in general are terrible. It's just that Frightening Appearance is very good. That would apply to solo games and team games only in solo games that disable can easily make or break you. It's one of the most reliable disables in the game because the roll is strength based (and warriors are typically ~100 % strength). Meanwhile holy smite is based on willpower which you invest little to nothing in and so enemies will end up resisting it more often than not.

[Cultist]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Nope it doesn't.
And you're lucky Kolgrim did kep his word. But what made you think he is trustworthy?

Because he kept to his word.

If a real-life cultist walked in, would you trust him?
I know games distort the decision-mkaingprocess, because it's game. You can save and re-load. and you are curios.
But when analyzing decision from a realistic perspective...many action peopel normally take in games are downright stupid and would NEVER take them i nreal life.

I's a game, not real-life. Any theories about how would you act IRL are useless. More to that, it is a role-playing fantasy game. The whole point is player's ability to act like he never would IRL

No, it doesn't make it right. It makes it twised. Especialyl with flimsy and flawed justifications, based on preconceptions and bias. Extreeme subjectivism leads to nothing but anarchy and chaos.
As proven by your own words.

Yet you are subjective to the extreme. Unable to accept any opinion that differs from your own. Calling any idea that differs from your own twisted. unable to hold a conversation without insulting those who disagree with you left and right.
It is ironic that man with nickname Cultist should explain all this to a man with really cultist-like behaviour.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Rawgrim wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Auintus wrote...

 Or some carta dealers could sell dust and claim it's holy ash. Not that anyone could possibly think of that.
Just seems like they're more trouble than they're worth.

What retarded logic.
Let's destroy penicilin, because con-artists will make fake drugs that aren't good for you! BRILLIANT!

And how much ash is there to go around? They can`t reproduce that ash to make enough for everyone who needs it. It would end up being a select few who got to use it.  So its not really penecillin then, is it?

Which doesn't matter.
If  we can't have enough for everyone, let's destroy it and not give it to anyone...is that your reasoning now?

[Lotion Soronarr]

Rawgrim wrote...

Not really, they are just skins.

Well, they are skins. But they are also voiced, and they feature in the single player campaign, so its not like nobody knows who the characters are. By this logic, killing Leliana if she just has a cameo in DA3 or whatever, would be ok. Since in that game she is not fleshed out.

Which doesn't matter. When you play multi, you know who is behind those skins. You're not playing against Darth Vader, you're plaing again Bob in a Darth Vader skin.
The skin has as much impact on the perception of "character" as different colored pants have. Heck, ever played minecraft. People hvae tons of different skins. They don't matter at all to your interaction with the other player.

Nope. He didn`t attack anyone from the chantry whenever he could. Where
did you get that idea? Jumping to conclusions? He never (hardly ever)
SIDED with the chantry. Its a roleplaying thing. He did side with the
cult, however, and Leliana attacked him. The game is full of gray
choices, not all is black and white. Allthough some people only see
things in black and white, I do remember the devs saying alot of the
choices in the game would be very grayish. This was one of them.  As a
side note: In my second playthough, I didn`t side with the cult. Just
because I knew the result of the choice fully, after playing through the
game earlier.

I'm sorry, but I dont' consider desecrating graves "greyish".
What the Warden did was basicly the equalent of an atheist/muslim/christian pissing on the grave of Jesus/Mohhamed simply because he doesn't care.
It is at best insensitive, at worst hatefull and chantry-phobic.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Auintus wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Auintus wrote...

 Or some carta dealers could sell dust and claim it's holy ash. Not that anyone could possibly think of that.
Just seems like they're more trouble than they're worth.

What retarded logic.
Let's destroy penicilin, because con-artists will make fake drugs that aren't good for you! BRILLIANT!

Try argueing reasonably instead of skipping straight to the insults. I don't know you that well yet.
The ashes aren't neccesary. Eamon was one of the few instances when ordinary magic just wasn't good enough. Normally, magic could deal with illness and injury, if the chantry weren't so hellbent on interfering. Also, if someone takes penicilin from just anybody, they deserve whatever they get.

Which is precisely my point. Fake drugs is a consequence that is irrelevant since it's got nothing to do with the Warden, and everything to do with gullible people.

Also, the ashes are necessary becasue there clearly are poisons and sickenesses that magic can't cure. This is a proven fact. And WTF you mean by "chantry interfereing"? When did the chantry interfere in curing Arl Eamon?

[Lotion Soronarr]

Rawgrim wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...
So...  Not everybody can get it so nobody should get it?

Lets say some select few gets it. And everybody knows a select few gets it...I am sure you could see how people with dying relatives would react to that. Picture a cure for cancer, or something like that. Ploiticians gets it, the rest of the world doesn`t. I suspect that might end in a very violent confrontation. I don`t think something like that would be a good thing duringright after a blight. Just one way of looking at it.

So it is as he said. "If I can't get it, no one will". That's selfish to the max.
Also, how would everyone know? TheDas is hardly the land on internets, clayvorance and instant communication.

Frankly, you are trying to fabricate the worst possible scenario as a justification to keep back a cure.

And b.t.w. - what you are talkign about already happens today. Some of hte best drugs and treatmenst are expensive as hell, and regular folk can't afford it. I've yet to see people with torches and pitchforks on the streets.

[Spicen]

Cultist wrote...

No, it doesn't make it right. It makes it twised. Especialyl with flimsy and flawed justifications, based on preconceptions and bias. Extreeme subjectivism leads to nothing but anarchy and chaos.
As proven by your own words.

Yet you are subjective to the extreme. Unable to accept any opinion that differs from your own. Calling any idea that differs from your own twisted. unable to hold a conversation without insulting those who disagree with you left and right.
It is ironic that man with nickname Cultist should explain all this to a man with really cultist-like behaviour.

Oh crap, you beat me to it. I wanted to say that, curse you.

Anyway you pointed the exact thing about the man. He insults anyone that does not agree with him. Thats why i called him a communist. His as* gets burned everytime someone disagrees with him. You know what, he is trying to spam the thread with insults so that it gets closed. Pretty smart from a Lotion Cult.

[Spicen]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Auintus wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Auintus wrote...

 Or some carta dealers could sell dust and claim it's holy ash. Not that anyone could possibly think of that.
Just seems like they're more trouble than they're worth.

What retarded logic.
Let's destroy penicilin, because con-artists will make fake drugs that aren't good for you! BRILLIANT!

Try argueing reasonably instead of skipping straight to the insults. I don't know you that well yet.
The ashes aren't neccesary. Eamon was one of the few instances when ordinary magic just wasn't good enough. Normally, magic could deal with illness and injury, if the chantry weren't so hellbent on interfering. Also, if someone takes penicilin from just anybody, they deserve whatever they get.

Which is precisely my point. Fake drugs is a consequence that is irrelevant since it's got nothing to do with the Warden, and everything to do with gullible people.

Also, the ashes are necessary becasue there clearly are poisons and sickenesses that magic can't cure. This is a proven fact. And WTF you mean by "chantry interfereing"? When did the chantry interfere in curing Arl Eamon?

Haven't you listened to the gaming lore?
Templars(the army of the chantry) forbid mages from making deeper studies and suspect everything is related to demons. This has stopped many technological advances of mages, they are left with what little knowledge they have. an experienced imperial Blood mage could have cured Eamon. But in most other places, studies regarding magic have slowed down a lot, therefore there is no definite way to learn the complete extent of healing magic, or any other magic for that case.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Cultist wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Nope it doesn't.
And you're lucky Kolgrim did kep his word. But what made you think he is trustworthy?

Because he kept to his word.

Which you could know beforehand. So your entire reasoning is flawed.

He's not the kind of personal a rational human being would trust.

If a real-life cultist walked in, would you trust him?
I know games distort the decision-mkaingprocess, because it's game. You can save and re-load. and you are curios.
But when analyzing decision from a realistic perspective...many action peopel normally take in games are downright stupid and would NEVER take them i nreal life.

I's a game, not real-life. Any theories about how would you act IRL are useless. More to that, it is a role-playing fantasy game. The whole point is player's ability to act like he never would IRL

Actually no. Reason doesn't cease to exist just because it's a game.
How I would act in real life is dictated by reason, not by gameplay mechanics.
What an example? In real life you'd never charge a group of a dizen heaviyl armed men alone. It's too risky. Suicide.
You can do it in a game because oyu can save/load and you know you can beat them, but from a CHARACTERS perspective, that is a stupid decision.

Also, the point isn't to act liek you never would in RL. The point is to act like the world is real and you are in the characters shoes.
If we follow your logic, in real life I would never eat s*** or drink poison. So that would make it perfectly reasonable to do it in teh game?

Yet you are subjective to the extreme. Unable to accept any opinion that differs from your own. Calling any idea that differs from your own twisted. unable to hold a conversation without insulting those who disagree with you left and right.
It is ironic that man with nickname Cultist should explain all this to a man with really cultist-like behaviour.

Pot calling the kettle black much?

If anyone desplays a cultist-like behavior, it would be you. And Spicen.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Spicen wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Also, the ashes are necessary becasue there clearly are poisons and sickenesses that magic can't cure. This is a proven fact. And WTF you mean by "chantry interfereing"? When did the chantry interfere in curing Arl Eamon?

Haven't you listened to the gaming lore?
Templars(the army of the chantry) forbid mages from making deeper studies and suspect everything is related to demons. This has stopped many technological advances of mages, they are left with what little knowledge they have. an experienced imperial Blood mage could have cured Eamon. But in most other places, studies regarding magic have slowed down a lot, therefore there is no definite way to learn the complete extent of healing magic, or any other magic for that case.

You are assumign and projecting too much there.
The Chantry forbids SOME studies, but it was never explained in great detail (waht it forbids seems to have to do with demonology) - you don't know exactly what OR what would come from it.

If you are so certain about the underlined PROVE IT. I demand proof of that claim.
I demand proof that normal magic can heal Eamon. Proof that without the Chantry mages would be ableto cure every desease and sickness ever.
If you can't prove it, you got nothing.

What we do know is that magic isn't all-powerfull and has clear limitations. We also know that there are wounds and deseases it cannot cure. That's all we know.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Spicen wrote...

Anyway you pointed the exact thing about the man. He insults anyone that does not agree with him. Thats why i called him a communist. His as* gets burned everytime someone disagrees with him. You know what, he is trying to spam the thread with insults so that it gets closed. Pretty smart from a Lotion Cult.

So..what exactly are you doing right now?
From where I come from it fits the definition of insult. Every single sentance in that quote containt at least one insulting thing.

*CLAP CLAP *

[Auintus]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Auintus wrote...

Try argueing reasonably instead of skipping straight to the insults. I don't know you that well yet.
The ashes aren't neccesary. Eamon was one of the few instances when ordinary magic just wasn't good enough. Normally, magic could deal with illness and injury, if the chantry weren't so hellbent on interfering. Also, if someone takes penicilin from just anybody, they deserve whatever they get.

Which is precisely my point. Fake drugs is a consequence that is irrelevant since it's got nothing to do with the Warden, and everything to do with gullible people.

So the desecrated ashes are the warden's fault, but the fake ashes aren't? I still believe that it eventually traces back to the warden's fault, but I see your point.

Also, the ashes are necessary becasue there clearly are poisons and sickenesses that magic can't cure. This is a proven fact. And WTF you mean by "chantry interfereing"? When did the chantry interfere in curing Arl Eamon?

Maybe I should have said templars. And not with Eamon. I mean with any mage who could possibly do any good for people being locked up in the Circle. Anders is running a clinic and the templars would still happily run him off to the circle.

Modifié par Auintus, 07 septembre 2012 - 08:58 .

[JamesStark]

Spicen wrote...

So yeah, i killed leliana in my DAO playthrough however that hary queen was kept alive by bioware(possibly pinches of andraste's ashes were dropped on leliana accidentally) becoz of canon. Please BW give the fans a chance to finally put the harpy queen to bed?!?

While I personally love Leliana(I love all characters and really can't comprehend hatedoms in general), I think it's only fair to to undo Bioware's retcon. I think reviving the dead in a game that uses heavy save imports is a little out of order.