766 réponses à ce sujet

[Lotion Soronarr]

Spicen wrote...
The 90% people in this who supported for having the option to kill does not agree with your statement.

So far only the following people have opposed the idea of having the option: Lotion Soronnar, Chris, The Gay guy, You.

Incorrect. Read better.

And unless the death of a character is 100% confirmed (and sometimes even then), the writers can ALWAYS ressurect them.

That is not the same as not acknowledging your decision. Because if you attacked Leliana/Anders it is acknowledged that you did. You just didn't kill them dead-dead. They were...mostly dead.

Now, how do i reply? I could insult you like your fellow Leliana- fanboy
Lotion Soronnar or i could be polite like myself. I want to be myself
so i will be polite.

:whistle::whistle:

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 16 septembre 2012 - 04:00 .

[Heimdall]

They option to kill her should certainly be there if it fits the story, regardless of how her death was handled previously.

I don't think that needs to be part of the story, but I'll agree to that much.

[LobselVith8]

thats1evildude wrote...

They didn't contradict MY choice.

People dislike the handwaves, and not just for Leliana. The devs contradict handwaved Oghren's death, the Magi boon, the Dalish boon, Anders' death, Justice's death... and for a franchise where we were told choice matters, this bothers some of us.

[Heimdall]

LobselVith8 wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

They didn't contradict MY choice.

People dislike the handwaves, and not just for Leliana. The devs contradict handwaved Oghren's death, the Magi boon, the Dalish boon, Anders' death, Justice's death... and for a franchise where we were told choice matters, this bothers some of us.

To be fare, the magi boon not working out because of the chantry does make a good deal of sense.  The Templars answer to their superiors and the Chantry, and I don't see any potential ruler willing to start an armed conflict with the Templars.

[Shadow Fox]

Spicen wrote...

Auintus wrote...


Unrelated question: Why didn't Leliana try to stop me before I defiled the ashes?

Trust me i asked the same question to Lotion Soronnar and a gay guy(BSN "Apologist" poster).

Lotion soronnar insulted me as he does to everyone. And the gay guy told that its Bioware's story they can do whatever they wish. Wheter its resurrecting dead bards or brothel ****s or dead Loghains or Fenrises. It's Bioware's story,right? they can do whatever they want.






                                                                        ................................Just dont complain if nobody buys the game

I hope you realize that passive agressively insulting everyone who disagrees with you*and trust me it's more than just 3 people* won't earn you many favours or help your case here.


As a Bard/spy herself she most likely thought you were bluffing the crazy guy.

[LobselVith8]

Lord Aesir wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

People dislike the handwaves, and not just for Leliana. The devs contradict handwaved Oghren's death, the Magi boon, the Dalish boon, Anders' death, Justice's death... and for a franchise where we were told choice matters, this bothers some of us.

To be fare, the magi boon not working out because of the chantry does make a good deal of sense.  The Templars answer to their superiors and the Chantry, and I don't see any potential ruler willing to start an armed conflict with the Templars.

They explained it, but it still contradicts the ending of Origins; it ignores Greagoir capitulating to the ruler about the mages being free in the new Circle Tower in the US ending, Cullen losing his mind over it, and the independent Circle of Orzammar not needing to be formed as a consequence.

[jackofalltrades456]

LobselVith8 wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

They didn't contradict MY choice.

People dislike the handwaves, and not just for Leliana. The devs contradict handwaved Oghren's death, the Magi boon, the Dalish boon, Anders' death, Justice's death... and for a franchise where we were told choice matters, this bothers some of us.

Yeah, these handwaves & retcons were the main reason they were forced to come out and say that choices would matter more in Dragon Age 3. The amount of truth to this statement can only be seen with the games release, though....

I do notice a recurring trend with returning characters in sequels to these games. 

Oghren got criticism  from his return in Awakening and was said to not be as popular as his Origin counterpart.

Anders got criticized  for his return in Dragon Age 2 and was said to barely match his Awakening counterpart.

Leliana got criticized for her sudden return in Dragon Age 2 and received a lot of flank for how she acted during her "Faith" cameo.

That's why I believe returning old characters for larger roles  in sequels needs to stop since they never seem to fit  into their new roles. Companion or not, I don't see Leliana tranfering well into the next sequel.

Modifié par jackofalltrades456, 16 septembre 2012 - 05:42 .

[Shadow Fox]

jackofalltrades456 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

They didn't contradict MY choice.

People dislike the handwaves, and not just for Leliana. The devs contradict handwaved Oghren's death, the Magi boon, the Dalish boon, Anders' death, Justice's death... and for a franchise where we were told choice matters, this bothers some of us.

Yeah, these handwaves & retcons were the main reason they were forced to come out and say that choices would matter more in Dragon Age 3. The amount of truth to this statement can only be seen with the games release, though....

I do notice a recurring trend with returning characters in sequels to these games. 

Oghren got criticism  from his return in Awakening and was said to not be as popular as his Origin counterpart.

Anders got criticized  for his return in Dragon Age 2 and was said to barely match his Awakening counterpart.

Leliana got criticized for her sudden return in Dragon Age 2 and received a lot of flank for how she acted during her "Faith" cameo.

That's why I believe returning old characters for larger roles  in sequels needs to stop since they never seem to fit  into their new roles. Companion or not, I don't see Leliana tranfering well into the next sequel.

The thing about Leiliana though is that Cassandra could have easily filled that role and given gamers a glimpse at her character beyond being the chick who interogatted Varric thus Leiliana was unncessary and was probably only shoehorned in because she was a popular character with a connection to the Chantry.

[ejoslin]

Cullen probably bothers me the most. His ending in DAO can be so tragic, two of the worst of the slides, a murderer or a tyrant, yet there he is in Kirkwell, apparently recovered from his mental break. This was just an unnecessary retcon. I know Cullen has a fan base, and I actually liked him a lot in DAO with my mage, which is what made what happened to him so upsetting, and why DA2 took a lot of power out of that ending of DAO for me.

I get that bringing back a popular character is a way to get people to buy the game, but unnecessary handwaving takes away a lot of the impact of the original game for really no good purpose. I also get that people like particular characters. In fact, I'd love it if they'd bring Zevran back as leader of the Crows, but that also would tick off the people who killed him, so it would be best if they left that out (that and given the history of bugs with Zevran's romance, perhaps that wouldn't be so great on second thought).

When you can write such wonderful characters, there's no need to handwave and take away the impact of the original game. And these characters ARE wonderful -- people literally fall in love with them. That doesn't mean new characters can't be as wonderful or that old characters in different stories that had multiple conclusions have to be brought back in.

[Shadow Fox]

ejoslin wrote...

Cullen probably bothers me the most. His ending in DAO can be so tragic, two of the worst of the slides, a murderer or a tyrant, yet there he is in Kirkwell, apparently recovered from his mental break. This was just an unnecessary retcon. I know Cullen has a fan base, and I actually liked him a lot in DAO with my mage, which is what made what happened to him so upsetting, and why DA2 took a lot of power out of that ending of DAO for me.

I get that bringing back a popular character is a way to get people to buy the game, but unnecessary handwaving takes away a lot of the impact of the original game for really no good purpose. I also get that people like particular characters. In fact, I'd love it if they'd bring Zevran back as leader of the Crows, but that also would tick off the people who killed him, so it would be best if they left that out (that and given the history of bugs with Zevran's romance, perhaps that wouldn't be so great on second thought).

When you can write such wonderful characters, there's no need to handwave and take away the impact of the original game. And these characters ARE wonderful -- people literally fall in love with them. That doesn't mean new characters can't be as wonderful or that old characters in different stories that had multiple conclusions have to be brought back in.

People can recover from trauma you know it ain't easy but they can plus Cullen is really only moderate in comparison to other Kirkwall Templars he'd still be considered extreme to the Ferelden Circle

[ejoslin]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Cullen probably bothers me the most. His ending in DAO can be so tragic, two of the worst of the slides, a murderer or a tyrant, yet there he is in Kirkwell, apparently recovered from his mental break. This was just an unnecessary retcon. I know Cullen has a fan base, and I actually liked him a lot in DAO with my mage, which is what made what happened to him so upsetting, and why DA2 took a lot of power out of that ending of DAO for me.

I get that bringing back a popular character is a way to get people to buy the game, but unnecessary handwaving takes away a lot of the impact of the original game for really no good purpose. I also get that people like particular characters. In fact, I'd love it if they'd bring Zevran back as leader of the Crows, but that also would tick off the people who killed him, so it would be best if they left that out (that and given the history of bugs with Zevran's romance, perhaps that wouldn't be so great on second thought).

When you can write such wonderful characters, there's no need to handwave and take away the impact of the original game. And these characters ARE wonderful -- people literally fall in love with them. That doesn't mean new characters can't be as wonderful or that old characters in different stories that had multiple conclusions have to be brought back in.

People can recover from trauma you know it ain't easy but they can plus Cullen is really only moderate in comparison to other Kirkwall Templars he'd still be considered extreme to the Ferelden Circle

While people CAN recover from trauma, in those two slides I'm referring to, Cullen either totally snaps and murders some mages then goes missing, or he's leader of the Ferelden circle and a complete dictator.  This is not about whether people can recover from trauma.  It's that these two particular endings are completely handwaved and for no good reason.

[Lotion Soronarr]

LobselVith8 wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

They didn't contradict MY choice.

People dislike the handwaves, and not just for Leliana. The devs contradict handwaved Oghren's death, the Magi boon, the Dalish boon, Anders' death, Justice's death... and for a franchise where we were told choice matters, this bothers some of us.

You first mistake was to think your choice actually matters. Killing one person or not doesn't really matter (especialyl if that person is no one important).

Your second one was to think it will carry over.
It's simply too difficult to write a long, braching story with so many possiblilites.

[Lotion Soronarr]

ejoslin wrote...
While people CAN recover from trauma, in those two slides I'm referring to, Cullen either totally snaps and murders some mages then goes missing, or he's leader of the Ferelden circle and a complete dictator.  This is not about whether people can recover from trauma.  It's that these two particular endings are completely handwaved and for no good reason.

IIRC; aren't most of the ending RUMORS?

[jackofalltrades456]

David Gaider retconned the epilogue slides after the release of Awakening, so I really wouldn't take much from them. Cullen's retcon seemed to had gotten less crap mainly because he was only a minor character in Origins. The same applies to Merril who's personality was completely rewritten in Dragon Age 2.

Leliana was a companion and LI in Dragon Age Origins, while Anders was a companion in Awakening. Both had multiple outcomes in their appearances that would contradict their roles in Dragon Age 2. Leliana could kill herself if the Warden died, never been recruited, or remain by the Warden's side. Anders could never join the Grey Wardens, die at the keep, or have Justice killed/ never recruited by the Warden. All these choices lead to the same outcome in the end. Leliana will always re-join the Chantry and leave the Warden, even if she died. Anders will always join the Grey Wardens and be possessed by the spirit of Justice even if he handed over to the Chantry and/or killed Justice.

They're trying to railroad these character outcomes into a single choice of just traveling with the Warden for a time then departing.

[Auintus]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

And do you recall my response?
Here it is again.

I don't know.
I suspect it's because she didn't think you would go trough with it and were only bluffing Kolgrim. Sound plausible enough.
Also, deliberatly using such strong languge IS trying to goad Leliana fans.

No, I mean when we were right there. I've got the vial of dragon blood out and everything and she just stands there until after I pour it in the urn. She never said a word until after I'd done it.

[Auintus]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

 You just didn't kill them dead-dead. They were...mostly dead.

Her head came off! I saw it. That's not something you can patch up and say "You'll be fine in the morning."
Thus, she's undead.

Modifié par Auintus, 16 septembre 2012 - 08:33 .

[Auintus]

Filament wrote...

She's very good at feigning death.

She can fake her head coming off and blood spurting out?...You know, if she pulled that off, she deserves to live.

Modifié par Auintus, 16 septembre 2012 - 08:34 .

[Wulfram]

Well, this is a universe where rogues can apparently spontaneously generate identical doubles of themselves.

(I'd forgive that as a non-literal representation of the rogue being all elusive and sneaky, except the damn thing explodes)

[Auintus]

Wulfram wrote...

Well, this is a universe where rogues can apparently spontaneously generate identical doubles of themselves.

(I'd forgive that as a non-literal representation of the rogue being all elusive and sneaky, except the damn thing explodes)

Shadows can make decoys, though I thought she was a bard.

[Cyberstrike nTo]

Morrigan deserves death.

Leliana does not.

[Auintus]

Cyberstrike nTo wrote...

Morrigan deserves death.

Leliana does not.

Nonsense. She saved me from evil archdemony-soul-magic. I literally owe her my life. Except I paid her an Old God's soul instead, so we're even.

[Cyberstrike nTo]

Auintus wrote...

Cyberstrike nTo wrote...

Morrigan deserves death.

Leliana does not.

Nonsense. She saved me from evil archdemony-soul-magic. I literally owe her my life. Except I paid her an Old God's soul instead, so we're even.

Well Leliana saved my Warden's soul and her a better person. While Morrigan stood around in the back of the camp and complained about everything and the only good thing she was ever for getting knocked up by Allistair.  

Modifié par Cyberstrike nTo, 16 septembre 2012 - 09:00 .

[Auintus]

Cyberstrike nTo wrote...

Well Leliana saved my Warden's soul and her a better person. While Morrigan stood around in the back of the camp and complained about everything and the only good thing she was ever for getting knocked up by Allistair.  

Nah, I romanced Morrigan. She gets better. She hates the fact that she gets better, but she does. I just hauled Leliana around to unlock things for me. Useful, but not indespensible. Leliana can't preform the Dark Ritual, so I don't think she saves your soul.

Modifié par Auintus, 16 septembre 2012 - 09:05 .