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[TheChris92]

simfamSP wrote...

TheChris92 wrote...

What is wrong with you people, and your urges to kill fictional characters lately?

Because even though fictional... they're pretty well done to be believable. The same could be said with romances and obsessions in other mediums.

Which should also make them believable enough for the player to disagree with them, without resorting to radical actions. Anyway, I think I'm done for now discussing this.

[berelinde]

TheChris92 wrote...

It's really not that which strikes me the most, berelinde. It is the fact that people want to kill off characters, simply because they feel an RPG should have that option or just because they don't like them/for the heck of it. I'm pretty sure, that no BioWare game has allowed you to do that before. Not to all of the characters. I'm not saying I want them to disregard player choice, I don't know why the option was there to begin with. So there.

The option is usually there for some kind of RP reason. Hawke has the opportunity to kill off a certain already-mentioned-in-a-no-spoiler-forum character during Last Straw for obvious reasons. The fact that there is a reason doesn't take the joy out of it for a disturbing number of players. Given Leliana's involvment in politics, I can easily foresee any of several RP reasons to kill her in the future. Yes, I am certain that players would enjoy using that extra party member (the murder knife) on her, but if there's a logical reason for her to die, I see no reason to prevent it.

Just because an option is there doesn't mean that you have to take it. Conversely, there are times when an option isn't there and you wish it was.

[Milan92]

Oh and OP, place a thread like this next time in the Spoiler forum and not the No-Spoiler forum

[Little Queen]

TheChris92 wrote...

What is wrong with you people, and your urges to kill fictional characters lately?

Have to agree on that one.... Whats the matter with Leliana? Im not her biggest fan either but she doesnt bother me like that

[berelinde]

Milan92 wrote...

Oh and OP, place a thread like this next time in the Spoiler forum and not the No-Spoiler forum

Why? You can't spoil a game that hasn't been announced. OP could have avoided mentioning DA2 people, but the thread needn't be buried in spoilerville because it mentions Leliana.

[berelinde]

Little Queen wrote...

TheChris92 wrote...

What is wrong with you people, and your urges to kill fictional characters lately?

Have to agree on that one.... Whats the matter with Leliana? Im not her biggest fan either but she doesnt bother me like that

Overblown GIRLINESS! Superficiality. Opportunism. Special snowflake syndrome. Annoying voice. Religious extremism. Over-use. Manipulative. Disloyal to former companions. Rabid preachiness.Correcting the bug that prevents her from staying dead if already killed.  Is that enough or should I keep going?

I'm not saying that I'd want my character to kill her just for the sake of killing her, but if there was a half-way decent RP reason to do it, I'd be lying if I said that I wouldn't get some satisfaction out of it.

[TheChris92]

berelinde wrote...

TheChris92 wrote...

It's really not that which strikes me the most, berelinde. It is the fact that people want to kill off characters, simply because they feel an RPG should have that option or just because they don't like them/for the heck of it. I'm pretty sure, that no BioWare game has allowed you to do that before. Not to all of the characters. I'm not saying I want them to disregard player choice, I don't know why the option was there to begin with. So there.

The option is usually there for some kind of RP reason. Hawke has the opportunity to kill off a certain already-mentioned-in-a-no-spoiler-forum character during Last Straw for obvious reasons. The fact that there is a reason doesn't take the joy out of it for a disturbing number of players. Given Leliana's involvment in politics, I can easily foresee any of several RP reasons to kill her in the future. Yes, I am certain that players would enjoy using that extra party member (the murder knife) on her, but if there's a logical reason for her to die, I see no reason to prevent it.

Just because an option is there doesn't mean that you have to take it. Conversely, there are times when an option isn't there and you wish it was.

Circumstances like being on opposite sides that enforces the player to engage their former friends is different from flat out murdering them simply for what they believe in.

EDIT: Anyway, let's continue this discussion in PM if need be. I think I need a break now.

Modifié par TheChris92, 28 août 2012 - 12:25 .

[Spicen]

TheChris92 wrote...

berelinde wrote...

TheChris92 wrote...

It's really not that which strikes me the most, berelinde. It is the fact that people want to kill off characters, simply because they feel an RPG should have that option or just because they don't like them/for the heck of it. I'm pretty sure, that no BioWare game has allowed you to do that before. Not to all of the characters. I'm not saying I want them to disregard player choice, I don't know why the option was there to begin with. So there.

The option is usually there for some kind of RP reason. Hawke has the opportunity to kill off a certain already-mentioned-in-a-no-spoiler-forum character during Last Straw for obvious reasons. The fact that there is a reason doesn't take the joy out of it for a disturbing number of players. Given Leliana's involvment in politics, I can easily foresee any of several RP reasons to kill her in the future. Yes, I am certain that players would enjoy using that extra party member (the murder knife) on her, but if there's a logical reason for her to die, I see no reason to prevent it.

Just because an option is there doesn't mean that you have to take it. Conversely, there are times when an option isn't there and you wish it was.

Circumstances like being on opposite sides that enforces the player to engage their former friends is different from flat out murdering them simply for what they believe in.

EDIT: Anyway, let's continue this discussion in PM if need be. I think I need a break now.

I dont get u Chris. Yah i get it u like Lil. But Da 2 gives options to let Meredith kill ur own sister. And Lil isnt even a family member.

Whats the hell is wrong with having an option- u tell me. Im willing to reason and with good arguments u can convince me. But  as far as im concerned its always gud to hav options, i dont remember fan backlash when there was option to kill her in DAO.

[mousestalker]

berelinde wrote...

Overblown GIRLINESS! Superficiality. Opportunism. Special snowflake syndrome. Annoying voice. Religious extremism. Over-use. Manipulative. Disloyal to former companions. Rabid preachiness.Correcting the bug that prevents her from staying dead if already killed.  Is that enough or should I keep going?

I'm not saying that I'd want my character to kill her just for the sake of killing her, but if there was a half-way decent RP reason to do it, I'd be lying if I said that I wouldn't get some satisfaction out of it.

You might want to check out this organization. They might provide you with much needed support.

As for the OP, in the real world people do not die just because you stab them. I'd like to think that if a trusted compatriot stabbed me mere meters away from a miracle of healing, I'd lie doggo, pretend I'm dead and then avail myself of the miracle. I would then avoid all contact with my would be murderer, much as I had with the last person who betrayed me. But then again, that's the rational thing to do.

Modifié par mousestalker, 28 août 2012 - 12:46 .

[C9316]

berelinde wrote...

Little Queen wrote...

TheChris92 wrote...

What is wrong with you people, and your urges to kill fictional characters lately?

Have to agree on that one.... Whats the matter with Leliana? Im not her biggest fan either but she doesnt bother me like that

Overblown GIRLINESS!

Shhhh *hugs you* It's all gon' be k. Don't fear the vagina..

[TheChris92]

Spicen wrote...

TheChris92 wrote...

berelinde wrote...

TheChris92 wrote...

It's really not that which strikes me the most, berelinde. It is the fact that people want to kill off characters, simply because they feel an RPG should have that option or just because they don't like them/for the heck of it. I'm pretty sure, that no BioWare game has allowed you to do that before. Not to all of the characters. I'm not saying I want them to disregard player choice, I don't know why the option was there to begin with. So there.

The option is usually there for some kind of RP reason. Hawke has the opportunity to kill off a certain already-mentioned-in-a-no-spoiler-forum character during Last Straw for obvious reasons. The fact that there is a reason doesn't take the joy out of it for a disturbing number of players. Given Leliana's involvment in politics, I can easily foresee any of several RP reasons to kill her in the future. Yes, I am certain that players would enjoy using that extra party member (the murder knife) on her, but if there's a logical reason for her to die, I see no reason to prevent it.

Just because an option is there doesn't mean that you have to take it. Conversely, there are times when an option isn't there and you wish it was.

Circumstances like being on opposite sides that enforces the player to engage their former friends is different from flat out murdering them simply for what they believe in.

EDIT: Anyway, let's continue this discussion in PM if need be. I think I need a break now.

I dont get u Chris. Yah i get it u like Lil. But Da 2 gives options to let Meredith kill ur own sister. And Lil isnt even a family member.

Whats the hell is wrong with having an option- u tell me. Im willing to reason and with good arguments u can convince me. But  as far as im concerned its always gud to hav options, i dont remember fan backlash when there was option to kill her in DAO.

Then I'm gonna explain it to you, Spicen. One last time and then I'm done with you, you hear? What you want is the option to kill Leliana, because you don't like her, that is the impression you've given me. You want to kill her for being who she is, even though you can just as easily leave her behind in Lothering. What I'm saying in the above post is that if circumstances would have me fight a former companion, because that companion is suddenly forcing my hand, like with Anders. Though the situation with Anders wasn't 1 dimensional, since I could let him live. What I'm actually saying is that there is a difference between flat out killing off a character for the heck of it, and striking a character down because they are forcing your hand. The situation would be completely different. If you cannot comprehend what I'm saying, then do not waste my time any further or your own.

EDIT: Don't bother replying, since I'm gonna leave this thread now.

Modifié par TheChris92, 28 août 2012 - 01:06 .

[berelinde]

@SilverMoonDragon: the guy I quoted asked what was wrong with Leliana. That's a partial listing. Maybe you don't find her impossibly cloying, but some people will eat sugar straight from the bowl.

[TheChris92]

berelinde wrote...

@SilverMoonDragon: the guy I quoted asked what was wrong with Leliana. That's a partial listing. Maybe you don't find her impossibly cloying, but some people will eat sugar straight from the bowl.

No, I asked why people feel the need to kill off characters just for the heck of it. I asked why people suddenly demands, out of nowhere, the option to kill specific characters they don't like.

Modifié par TheChris92, 28 août 2012 - 12:56 .

[Emzamination]

mousestalker wrote...

berelinde wrote...

Overblown GIRLINESS! Superficiality. Opportunism. Special snowflake syndrome. Annoying voice. Religious extremism. Over-use. Manipulative. Disloyal to former companions. Rabid preachiness.Correcting the bug that prevents her from staying dead if already killed.  Is that enough or should I keep going?

I'm not saying that I'd want my character to kill her just for the sake of killing her, but if there was a half-way decent RP reason to do it, I'd be lying if I said that I wouldn't get some satisfaction out of it.

You might want to check out this organization. They might provide you with much needed support.

[berelinde]

@TheChris92: Leaving her behind in Lothering will not prevent her from appearing again and again and again. That's the point. DAO is out the door. If she shows up again, spicen wants to be sure it's for the last time.

And nobody said that she can't be killable for plot reasons. There are plenty. Any enjoyment the player would find in it is an added bonus.

But yeah, at this point, that topic is going nowhere.

@spicen: Would you be satisfied if she just didn't show up in future titles?

[TheChris92]

berelinde wrote...

@TheChris92: Leaving her behind in Lothering will not prevent her from appearing again and again and again. That's the point. DAO is out the door. If she shows up again, spicen wants to be sure it's for the last time.

And nobody said that she can't be killable for plot reasons. There are plenty. Any enjoyment the player would find in it is an added bonus.

But yeah, at this point, that topic is going nowhere.

@spicen: Would you be satisfied if she just didn't show up in future titles?

Based on his arguments I'd say Spicen just wants to kill her because he doesn't like her, why else would he sum up traits of the character he does not like as an argument for his case? Truthfully, I get the feeling you don't want to kill her simply out of spite either, so I do believe most of my statements were pointed towards Spicen. I'm not here to question why you, or him, does not like this specific character. True, she'll still appear in DA2 but she won't be in Origins for the entire game, just like Anders will appear in DA2 regardless of what you do. Leliana is only in the game (DA2) for a few minutes, which Anders can also be if you leave him behind or anything.  Anyway, like you said. This isn't going anywhere.

[berelinde]

C9316 wrote...

berelinde wrote...

Little Queen wrote...

TheChris92 wrote...

What is wrong with you people, and your urges to kill fictional characters lately?

Have to agree on that one.... Whats the matter with Leliana? Im not her biggest fan either but she doesnt bother me like that

Overblown GIRLINESS!

Shhhh *hugs you* It's all gon' be k. Don't fear the vagina..

I don't. I have my own. The avatar is male, but I'm not.

That's my point, though. She's a caricature of femininity, not the real thing. She gets what she wants by being a manipulative tease. It's degrading.

Some characters are better examples of empowered femininity than others. Dynaheir and Mazzy were prime examples of this, from back in the day. Morrigan wasn't too bad. Yeah, she did confess to leading guys around by their libidos, but at least she was honest about it. Isabela totally aced it by embracing her sexuality and bolstering her female companions. Leliana was 100% fail.

[Xilizhra]

berelinde wrote...

Little Queen wrote...

TheChris92 wrote...

What is wrong with you people, and your urges to kill fictional characters lately?

Have to agree on that one.... Whats the matter with Leliana? Im not her biggest fan either but she doesnt bother me like that

Overblown GIRLINESS! Superficiality. Opportunism. Special snowflake syndrome. Annoying voice. Religious extremism. Over-use. Manipulative. Disloyal to former companions. Rabid preachiness.Correcting the bug that prevents her from staying dead if already killed.  Is that enough or should I keep going?

I'm not saying that I'd want my character to kill her just for the sake of killing her, but if there was a half-way decent RP reason to do it, I'd be lying if I said that I wouldn't get some satisfaction out of it.

I really don't see any superficiality, and any "special snowflake" issues are minor at best. She claims to have had her own vision, but quite frankly I like it a lot more than the rest of the Chantry. She also doesn't come across as all that manipulative, at least not in a way that affects me, in DAO. And how is she disloyal to anyone?

[Emzamination]

SilverMoonDragon wrote...

berelinde wrote...

@TheChris92: Leaving her behind in Lothering will not prevent her from appearing again and again and again. That's the point. DAO is out the door. If she shows up again, spicen wants to be sure it's for the last time.

And nobody said that she can't be killable for plot reasons. There are plenty. Any enjoyment the player would find in it is an added bonus.

But yeah, at this point, that topic is going nowhere.

@spicen: Would you be satisfied if she just didn't show up in future titles?

No one is denying that, it's true that if there is a reasonable plot point (whether you like a character or not) a character could be killed off. However, in the world of DAO as we know it (so far), there is no good plot reason to kill off Leliana, simply wanting one for the sake of it is proof enough that the main reason why you want it in the first place is because you don't like her. You're of course entitled to your opinion, but I personally like her and will list why; She's loyal, she's dedicated, she's skilled, she is both kind-hearted and strong, lovely and sweet (not too sweet), very devoted, and I personally really like her voice...I could go on  

Her warden lover thinks otherwise

[berelinde]

SilverMoonDragon wrote...
She's loyal, she's dedicated, she's skilled, she is both kind-hearted and strong, lovely and sweet (not too sweet), very devoted, and I personally really like her voice...I could go on  

She is not loyal. Even if she is romanced, she abandons the Warden to pursue her own career.

She is not skilled unless you completely respec her. As an archer in DA:O, she's pretty much useless.

She is not particularly kind-hearted if she abandoned Lothering rather than staying to help the refugees like she promised.

She is not strong or lovely. She looks like a goldfish and has about the same physical fortitude.

If she is sweet, it is 100% saccharine. She is a leading cause of death in lab rats.

Seriously, we get that you like her. Everyone will build up virtues, real or imagined, in characters they like. Others may not find her so endearing.

[nightscrawl]

Chaos Lord Malek wrote...

In DA:O i killed Liliana, Alistair(executed), Morrigan(OP Dagger), Sten(L4D), Wynne, Zevrann, and even killed myself at the end (US ending)

In DA2 - i killed Anders (again, after Awakening), Fenris (sold to slavery, killed his personality), Merill, wanted Sebastian too, but the scum left.

Now i am comming to Dragon Age 3, armed with the Mandate of Inquisition, only one thing is guaranteed - that there will be a lots of friendly NPCs dead, once i am done.

Uh... wow...