766 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

She is not loyal. Even if she is romanced, she abandons the Warden to pursue her own career.

The Warden may have disappeared before then. You have no way of knowing this.

She is not skilled unless you completely respec her. As an archer in DA:O, she's pretty much useless.

Archers are very powerful if used properly.

She is not particularly kind-hearted if she abandoned Lothering rather than staying to help the refugees like she promised.

Ah, yes, so I'm sure Hawke and family must also be removed from the "kind-hearted" thing because they ran away too?

She is not strong or lovely. She looks like a goldfish and has about the same physical fortitude.

Subjective, of course. I do find her lovely, personally. And I'm a mage; I can't complain about physical fortitude.

If she is sweet, it is 100% saccharine. She is a leading cause of death in lab rats.

That was aspartame. In any case, I never felt sickened.

Seriously, we get that you like her. Everyone will build up virtues, real or imagined, in characters they like. Others may not find her so endearing.

Everyone will also build up flaws, real or imagined, in those they dislike.

[berelinde]

That was in response to the claim that she was loyal.

One thing she is: a good actor. She fakes sincerity quite well.

[Ulathar]

berelinde wrote...
Everyone will build up virtues, real or imagined, in characters they like. Others may not find her so endearing.

True - that goes both ways, though. People will build up flaws, real or imagined, in characters they don't like.

Also, I didn't find her useless in combat at all with the Archer spec.

[TheChris92]

berelinde wrote...

SilverMoonDragon wrote...
She's loyal, she's dedicated, she's skilled, she is both kind-hearted and strong, lovely and sweet (not too sweet), very devoted, and I personally really like her voice...I could go on  

She is not loyal. Even if she is romanced, she abandons the Warden to pursue her own career.

You mean like Zevran did too? Wandering off killing the master of the Crows etc etc? What makes you think she isn't still seeing the Warden, during the events after Origins, just like Zevran might be. We have no way of knowing since we don't know where the Warden is or know of her activities. Her statement in DA2 applies that she still loves the Warden, if romanced. Aaaaaaaand I'm done for real. Promise

Modifié par TheChris92, 28 août 2012 - 01:34 .

[berelinde]

Xilizhra wrote...

Everyone will also build up flaws, real or imagined, in those they dislike.

Usually, people need a reason to outright dislike a character. There has to be something to turn them off. I actually started out liking her, or at least not hating her. She didn't do it for me, but I was kind of neutral about her. After a lot of conversations about nothing but shoes, hair, and clothing, and not one word of concern about the danger we faced, one iota of sympathy about the responsibility of being a Warden and uniting Ferelden against the Blight, or one sentence that didn't involve fashion, subterfuge, or the Maker, I gave up. Now, I leave her in Lothering.

[Emzamination]

Xilizhra wrote...

The Warden may have disappeared before then. You have no way of knowing this.

No, if the warden is not romanced and a monarch, she states they makes a good king/queen, implying their whereabouts are still very known

Archers are very powerful if used properly.

Considering she uses daggers during 'faith', it is now disingenious to spec her as an archer

Ah, yes, so I'm sure Hawke and family must also be removed from the "kind-hearted" thing because they ran away too?

Well they were deserting

Subjective, of course. I do find her lovely, personally. And I'm a mage; I can't complain about physical fortitude.

Well...her hair could've been a few shades redder in origins but all in all, good stuff

Ivandra Ceruden wrote...

@berelinde: If she abandons the
warden for her own career, how is she a 'caricature of femininity' then?
Afterall, a 'weak' woman would stay with her lover for her own benefit,
right? I'm not saying that leaving your lover as a woman automatically
makes you 'strong', just pointing out the paradox here.

No no, a strong woman sacrifices her career to raise a family with her mate

Modifié par Emzamination, 28 août 2012 - 01:37 .

[Cutlass Jack]

TheChris92 wrote...

berelinde wrote...

SilverMoonDragon wrote...
She's loyal, she's dedicated, she's skilled, she is both kind-hearted and strong, lovely and sweet (not too sweet), very devoted, and I personally really like her voice...I could go on  

She is not loyal. Even if she is romanced, she abandons the Warden to pursue her own career.

You mean like Zevran did too? Wandering off killing the master of the Crows etc etc? What makes you think she isn't still seeing the Warden, just like Zevran might be. We have no way of knowing since we don't know where the Warden is. Her statement in DA2 applies that she still loves the Warden, if romanced. Aaaaaaaand I'm done for real. Promise

Yes how dare a woman pursue her own career. The nerve. Even if the warden left her to pursue being Warden Commander.

Of course no one said they weren't still together. And its heavily implied out in DA2 that his friends are searching for him/her. I'd think a 'Seeker' would be a natural for that.

I'll admit none of that was part of my headcannon for what really happened to my warden and her at the end of DAO (I took the dialogue about them wandering the world together very seriously) but there is no evidence she wasn't loyal.

[berelinde]

^^ Nah, Ivandra can't read. I was quoting something about the claim of loyalty there. Keep up.

Anyway, I'm done.

In closing, I'd rather she didn't appear at all, but if she does appear, and if there was a plausible reason to kill her, I wouln't mind.

Over and out.

[Xilizhra]

berelinde wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Everyone will also build up flaws, real or imagined, in those they dislike.

Usually, people need a reason to outright dislike a character. There has to be something to turn them off. I actually started out liking her, or at least not hating her. She didn't do it for me, but I was kind of neutral about her. After a lot of conversations about nothing but shoes, hair, and clothing, and not one word of concern about the danger we faced, one iota of sympathy about the responsibility of being a Warden and uniting Ferelden against the Blight, or one sentence that didn't involve fashion, subterfuge, or the Maker, I gave up. Now, I leave her in Lothering.

You didn't get any conversations like that? How odd. Maybe it requires romance.

I never saw her as being unsympathetic. She's just optimistic, and expresses her support by trying to be positive. And I only recall one conversation involving hair, which is when she's flirting; anything involving clothes/shoes is party banter. And if you were worried about variable sentences, did you never listen to any of her stories?

[Abraham_uk]

TheChris92 wrote...

What is wrong with you people, and your urges to kill fictional characters lately?

Indeed. Besides I'd rather kill darkspawn and daemons rather than party members.

[Emzamination]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Yes how dare a woman pursue her own career. The nerve. Even if the warden left her to pursue being Warden Commander.

Actually, the warden invited her to come with him/her to his/her new post but she was the one that turned it down to visit the divine

Of course no one said they weren't still together. And its heavily implied out in DA2 that his friends are searching for him/her. I'd think a 'Seeker' would be a natural for that.

Every romance that appeared (Suprised at zevran) said they were commited to the warden yet she just gives some sad look and states he/she is dear to her heart  but she's working for the divine now.That sounds like a break up to me.

I'll admit none of that was part of my headcannon for what really happened to my warden and her at the end of DAO (I took the dialogue about them wandering the world together very seriously) but there is no evidence she wasn't loyal.

She abandoned her lover to serve the decrepit divine, what part of that says loyalty? Mmm to the warden anyway

Modifié par Emzamination, 28 août 2012 - 01:48 .

[MichaelStuart]

If Leliana tries to get me involved in the Mage/Templar War, I will kill her at the first opportunity.
If I lack the ability to kill her, I settle for the ability to hurt her feelings.
Failing that I will go sulk in a corner.

[Cutlass Jack]

Emzamination wrote...

Actually, the warden invited her to come with him/her to his/her new post but she was the one that turned it down to visit the divine

Yeah the nerve of her making a stop on the way to visit him. And sending a nice romantic letter to explain that absence. So disloyal,  asking the warden to pretty up the place before she got there. Not really seeing how that's much different than Alistair or Zevran, who also sent letters. And don't get me started on Morrigan.

And I'm still not seeing how pursuing a career for a greater cause makes her any different than the Warden, who I should point out, could have chosen to go help her for a change. Mine would have done that without a second thought.

edit: I'm not saying they couldn't have broken up, but it would hardly be a sign of disloyalty. Just that things didn't work out due to their life's paths leading them apart just as it brought them together.

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 28 août 2012 - 02:11 .

[berelinde]

Ivandra Ceruden wrote...

berelinde wrote...

^^ Nah, Ivandra can't read. I was quoting something about the claim of loyalty there. Keep up.

Anyway, I'm done.

In closing, I'd rather she didn't appear at all, but if she does appear, and if there was a plausible reason to kill her, I wouln't mind.

Over and out.

Whoa. Falling back on personal insults now, eh? Let me say this then: maybe you should get that stick out your @ss and take a chill pill. It's just a game character. Also, first stirring up the flames and then leaving a topic is typical behaviour of a troll.

Goodbye and don't let the door hit you on your way out.

Nah, I was making an observation. Yours, however, relies on profanity for shock value. 

People have many reasons for leaving topics. It has all been said before being the biggest. Nothing I can say will convince the fanboys and girls that some people have valid reasons for disliking her, so there's no point in saying it 100 more times. Another valid reason is commuting to work, which is why I signed out at the time.

As for taking a chill pill, perhaps it might help with that aggression thing you have going. I'll leave the choice of orifice for insertion up to you.

The thread is about wanting a second chance to kill Leliana. Expressing dislike for the character hardly constitutes trolling.

Anyway, there's nothing left to say. Fanboys/girls squee, critics present counterarguments. Both sides have had their chance to speak, and prolonging it at this point is nothing more than a race to get the last word. Go ahead. It will not make anybody on either side seem any wiser.

[Emzamination]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Actually, the warden invited her to come with him/her to his/her new post but she was the one that turned it down to visit the divine

Yeah the nerve of her making a stop on the way to visit him. And sending a nice romantic letter to explain that absence. So disloyal,  asking the warden to pretty up the place before she got there. Not really seeing how that's much different than Alistair or Zevran, who also sent letters. And don't get me started on Morrigan.

And I'm still not seeing how pursuing a career for a greater cause makes her any different than the Warden, who I should point out, could have chosen to go help her for a change. Mine would have done that without a second thought.

The difference is Alistair and Zevran actually came back from their trips.They knew where their loyalties lye.Morrigan...not saying in the least her slipping away was unneccesary but she did state that was her intention, even extracted a promise to seal the deal.

The warden's business was far more important <_<

[bleetman]

You know, if you really can't stand Leliana, you could always just not recruit her. Or send her away at any point. Or ignore her the entire time. Y'know, because she's not mandatory in any way, shape or form to DA:O's story

Oh, there I go again, being rational.

Emzamination wrote...

The difference is Alistair and Zevran actually came back from their trips.

Based on...?

Modifié par bleetman, 28 août 2012 - 02:15 .

[Cutlass Jack]

Emzamination wrote...

The difference is Alistair and Zevran actually came back from their trips.They knew where their loyalties lye.Morrigan...not saying in the least her slipping away was unneccesary but she did state that was her intention, even extracted a promise to seal the deal.

The warden's business was far more important <_<

Who said Leliana didn't come back from her trip as well? That she couldnt have taken multiple trips? Just like Alistair and Zevran did in DA2.

And I disagree that the Warden's business is even slightly more important once the Blight and Awakening were over. He should have a good 500 years or so of free time available, during which, events on the surface world might seem a tad more pressing.

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 28 août 2012 - 02:17 .

[berelinde]

bleetman wrote...

You know, if you really can't stand Leliana, you could always just not recruit her. Or send her away at any point. Or ignore her the entire time. Y'know, because she's not mandatory in any way, shape or form to DA:O's story

Of course! Many people do avoid recruiting her. The problem is that she will still show up in DA2, Asunder, etc. OP is stating that if she does show up again in DA3, he or she wants the chance to kill her once and for all.

[jlb524]

Spicen wrote...
So yeah, i killed leliana in my DAO playthrough however that hary queen was kept alive by bioware(possibly pinches of andraste's ashes were dropped on leliana accidentally) becoz of canon. Please BW give the fans a chance to finally put the harpy queen to bed?!?

Every time you misspell, the Maker resurrects a Leliana. 

[TheChris92]

berelinde wrote...

bleetman wrote...

You know, if you really can't stand Leliana, you could always just not recruit her. Or send her away at any point. Or ignore her the entire time. Y'know, because she's not mandatory in any way, shape or form to DA:O's story

Of course! Many people do avoid recruiting her. The problem is that she will still show up in DA2, Asunder, etc. OP is stating that if she does show up again in DA3, he or she wants the chance to kill her once and for all.

Asunder is irrelevant since game-canon is different from book canon, as Wynne also appears in that book despite how her fate might turn out in Origins.