264 réponses à ce sujet

[survivor_686]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

The thing that pisses me off most abuot Destroy is that the Geth are gone, not because I'm all like "OMGGeThWeReMyFriEnDz!"

It's because we have already proved starchild wrong by uniting the Geth and Quarians, to go and kill them now would only cause future synthetics to, in fact, rise against us once they learn we wiped out their entire existence before.

Synthetics rising up against organics might not be inevitable, but if you follow the destroy path it will be.

The Geth's survival is crucial for organic and synthetic harmony.

Also, Geth have Reaper code now which makes them able to "understand" us at least a bit better, doesn't it?

Thoughts on this?

PS: I am, in no way, endorsing Starchild's logic. Only the results of the options he presents.

Destroy gives us a second chance with out relation to Synthetics, galaxy and whatnot.

Destroy allows organics to push forwards with their relations to synthetics on their own terms. It allows us to remember our past mistakes and work on rectifying it.

Bear in mind that the Citadel races had already thought of the possibility of synthetics rebelling (See their ban on AI research). Destroy allows us to point to the Reapers and the Geth as a warning abou the dangers of going too far and off freaking out.

Perhaps the cycle will continue....perhaps it won't. Destroy at least gives us the chance to learn and amend our mistakes.

[Someone With Mass]

I'll just write the geth dying off as lazy inconsistency when it comes to the Crucible's capabilities, since neither the geth or EDI are affected by Control and then it somehow has the power to infuse every organic being the galaxy with synthetic parts, despite the fact that I seriously doubt that it has enough material to do so, nor can I see how adding Shepard's unspecified "energy" to it would change anything.

Just a few moments before the Catalyst called the Crucible a little more than a power source.

Oh and if we're going to follow the Catalyst's logic, then we can might as well start killing synthetics and organics alike, because rebellion and conflict are even more common among the organics.

Not to mention that he's not saving anyone with his little stunt, since I would never call having one's mind uploaded and joined with billions of other minds to become one in a machine body for millions of years with no individuality or way of thinking alone as a state of living.

The whole Reaper origin is so intensely stupid and wish THAT would have been the one thing the devs would have left out for speculations.

But hey, what do I know about people's so important artistic integrity that makes them write a very unfocused and nonsensical plot that's more fitted for comic books, since it all falls apart when you think about it for more than ten seconds?

[atheelogos]

I hate the ending cuz the crucible says all this stuff about it's purpose and how much it believes in it's cause then turns around and says " by the way there is the off switch.... press it if you want...

Why would a hyper intelligent entity do that?

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

atheelogos wrote...



Why would a hyper intelligent entity do that?

Have you ever considered that the catalyst might be...a moron?

[3DandBeyond]

Pitznik wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Shreaper is no longer organic.  Thoughts and memories are not personality, emotion, love, hate, sadness.  They are just like watching a video.  Other AIs learned emotions but this is not at all what is said or shown with Shepard in control. 

Both Legion and EDI show emotions. Synthetic life is more than just logic.

3DandBeyond wrote...

What gratitude?  And there's no sadness, there's just talk of not forgetting what people did.  And it is ominous all the way through-the music is, the tone is, Shreaper's voice is.

It is not ominous. It is supposed to sound omnipotent.

3DandBeyond wrote...

Reapers destroy or "ascend" all advanced organics of a cycle, but they only make one new model.  New reapers are modeled after the most advanced race of a cycle.  They are not made from only one race.  They never say that.  They only make one new model in a cycle, so what do they do with all the other goo they grab?  Throw it at each other?  They never even made a Prothean reaper.  And they do not create reaper creatures from Quarians so where does their goo go?  What do reapers exist on since even synthetic material is subject to the process of deterioration and damage or injury?  Reapers gotta eat something or ingest something or use something to regenerate.  They take in a lot of goo.

So much wrong here

- Reapers create one capital ship per cycle, NOT one Reaper per cycle - and that is also just a hypothesis
- other advanced races are made into Destroyers
- you don't know if there is Prothean Reaper or not, it is just EDI's hypothesis

Ok, you didn't read what I previously posted.  I said EDI has emotions.  The geth might, though beyond Legion, none have shown any and even Legion didn't necessarily show emotion.  He didn't ask about his heart-he asked if he had a soul, which implies he wanted to know if he will continue to exist.  I'd say he proved he had a heart because he sacrificed himself, but that's just Legion.

Shreaper is not EDI nor the geth.  And the narration is emotionless and the kid says thoughts and memories-that is not emotions.  It is ominous, but ok go with omnipotent--that's a good thing?  I like my brother.  I don't want him controlling reapers and becoming omnipotent.  It's totalitarianism.  And Shepard as reaper god cannot communicate with people.  Shreaper says things Shepard would not say.

And uploading someone's consciousness into a construct or a blue box (however magically that's done), does not make a true copy of that person.  That person would no longer exist.  It's even said that's true when moving an AI to a new blue box.  The difference in construction and other minor things would change the AI.

I never said they created one reaper per cycle.  I said one new model.  That means what it means.  It does not mean only one new reaper.  So quit trying to argue just to argue.  If you can't understand what I'm saying then don't comment on my posts.  You continually do this-you interpret things as you want, things I have not said and then try to belittle.  They create new reapers based on the most advanced race of a cycle. 

Exactly how many Prothean reapers do we see?  I'd go with EDI's hypothesis.

And now, please do explain just exactly what reapers live on, using the game as reference.  Because it's pretty clear to me that not all the organic material they collect is used to make new reapers, and maybe something more.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 25 août 2012 - 06:38 .

[3DandBeyond]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Why do people assume that Shepard would tell people that he made a choice at all?

Hackett: What happened up there and why are all the Geth dead?

Shepard: I activated the Crucible sir. It appears that whatever it did to kill the Reapers also destroyed the Geth.

Hackett: That's unfortunate. They will be remembered as martyrs, the final tragic price we had to pay to ensure our future.

See how easy that is?

Yeah but this is ME3, remember?  Hackett could have also said Shepard didn't kill the Batarians with the asteroid in The Arrival, but instead he made Shepard sit in detention and apparently told the galaxy what Shepard did.  That way the rest of the galaxy could sip margaritas while the reapers got close.

So, Shepard might tell Hackett it just "happened", but Hackett would have to make Shepard pay for it.  It's how things work.  Brains were in the dishwasher.

[darthnick427]

atheelogos wrote...

I hate the ending cuz the crucible says all this stuff about it's purpose and how much it believes in it's cause then turns around and says " by the way there is the off switch.... press it if you want...

Why would a hyper intelligent entity do that?

Well it's a malfunctioning AI that turned on it's creators and liquified entire races to "preserve" them. That doesn't exactly seem hyper intelligent to me....lol

Modifié par darthnick427, 25 août 2012 - 07:20 .

[Applepie_Svk]

By my opinion was Destroy always only about destroying the Reapers but Starchild as said : You have altered the variables - was able to expand upon this choice with backlash against Geth.

[Pitznik]

3DandBeyond wrote...


Ok, you didn't read what I previously posted.  I said EDI has emotions.  The geth might, though beyond Legion, none have shown any and even Legion didn't necessarily show emotion.  He didn't ask about his heart-he asked if he had a soul, which implies he wanted to know if he will continue to exist.  I'd say he proved he had a heart because he sacrificed himself, but that's just Legion.

Shreaper is not EDI nor the geth.  And the narration is emotionless and the kid says thoughts and memories-that is not emotions.  It is ominous, but ok go with omnipotent--that's a good thing?  I like my brother.  I don't want him controlling reapers and becoming omnipotent.  It's totalitarianism.  And Shepard as reaper god cannot communicate with people.  Shreaper says things Shepard would not say.

Of course he can communicate with people. He is simply no longer one of them. How you choose to interpret the epilogue is up to you - I actually see lots of emotions there. I think it is safe to assume Shepard is more advanced than EDI or the Geth, which would make him much more individual. I can't prove my view, but neither can you - so we shouldn't use it as a fact.

3DandBeyond wrote...

And uploading someone's consciousness into a construct or a blue box (however magically that's done), does not make a true copy of that person.  That person would no longer exist.  It's even said that's true when moving an AI to a new blue box.  The difference in construction and other minor things would change the AI.

Indeed, change of perspective is inevitable, and Shepard's perspective is lot different from Commander Reapard's perspective. But there is a lot more of the same.

3DandBeyond wrote...

I never said they created one reaper per cycle.  I said one new model.  That means what it means.  It does not mean only one new reaper.  So quit trying to argue just to argue.  If you can't understand what I'm saying then don't comment on my posts.  You continually do this-you interpret things as you want, things I have not said and then try to belittle.  They create new reapers based on the most advanced race of a cycle. 

You're still wrong, no "one new model". Race chosen arbitrarily as the most promising goes for the capital ship, all the rest goes for Destroyers. If we look at outer shell, there are no new models at all. If we look at proto-reapers, each one is unique, so plenty of new models. So, wrong.

3DandBeyond wrote...

Exactly how many Prothean reapers do we see?  I'd go with EDI's hypothesis.

How would even know that? What you go with is your business, but that doesn't make it a fact.

Prothean lookalike metal robot (apparently, with random number of eyes) = INSIDE the cuttlefish

3DandBeyond wrote...

And now, please do explain just exactly what reapers live on, using the game as reference.  Because it's pretty clear to me that not all the organic material they collect is used to make new reapers, and maybe something more.

No data available. No basis for educated guess, pure headcanon.

Modifié par Pitznik, 25 août 2012 - 08:22 .

[3DandBeyond]

Pitznik wrote...

Of course he can communicate with people. He is simply no longer one of them. How you choose to interpret the epilogue is up to you - I actually see lots of emotions there. I think it is safe to assume Shepard is more advanced than EDI or the Geth, which would make him much more individual. I can't prove my view, but neither can you - so we shouldn't use it as a fact.

Ok, did you play this game and I mean that seriously.  In control, the kid says Shepard will lose his/her connection with them, but will still be aware of them.  It says thoughts and memories.  You are just trying to argue.  The kid is way more advanced too supposedly and he's crazy and has no concept of a lot of things, he has no feelings.  I am going by what it says and what it shows.  The things paragon control says are not paragon things.  You can belabor the point, but you are just arguing for no reason at all.  You do this every time I post.  Grow up.

[3DandBeyond]

Pitznik wrote...


You're still wrong, no "one new model". Race chosen arbitrarily as the most promising goes for the capital ship, all the rest goes for Destroyers. If we look at outer shell, there are no new models at all. If we look at proto-reapers, each one is unique, so plenty of new models. So, wrong.

How would even know that? What you go with is your business, but that doesn't make it a fact.

Prothean lookalike metal robot (apparently, with random number of eyes) = INSIDE the cuttlefish

They create one new type each cycle from the most advanced race.  The human reaper is always called a reaper.  I never said one individual new reaper is all they create.   They began creating the human reaper or proto reaper, fine-that was a new model.  They apparently intended to use humans to create this.  We have no clue how many other reapers they make each cycle.  They do not make more than one type of proto reaper per cycle. 

They harvest a single species each cycle to make the capital ships with the proto reaper core supposedly.  The other races go to make destroyers.

What Prothean lookalike metal robot are you talking about?  There were no Prothean reapers, there was a failed attempt at a prothean reaper.  The Protheans became the Collectors, not reapers.

And they don't choose a race arbitrarily to make a new capital ship-it is the one they consider to be the most advanced.

[Comsky159]

I think the Starchild would be right, if it weren't for Shepard's superhuman abilities/diplomatic skills.

He's the singular outlying factor in the Starchild's prior-to infallible logic, and that's why he gets to make the decision. Destroy might work in the short term but given how much Shep had to do on order to unite the Geth and Quarians I'm not particularly optimistic on a long term scale.

[nevar00]

But they had to put that in. Otherwise everyone else would take the obvious choice and you wouldn't have any other reason to pick another ending. That's why they threw in some random crap about genocide. CONSEQUENCES!

That's why the Extended Cut still gave me my favorite ending: telling the Starkid to screw himself, and then everyone dying. Because even if you choose another option either everyone dies anyway or something stupid (even more so than what happened earlier that game) happens.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Comsky159 wrote...

I think the Starchild would be right, if it weren't for Shepard's superhuman abilities/diplomatic skills.

He's the singular outlying factor in the Starchild's prior-to infallible logic, and that's why he gets to make the decision. Destroy might work in the short term but given how much Shep had to do on order to unite the Geth and Quarians I'm not particularly optimistic on a long term scale.

You would think that people in a post destroy galaxy would be smart enough to not build deathbots capable of destroying them...

But knowing how "Intelligent" the various races have proven themselves thus far...


I for one welcome our new robotic overlords.

[Pitznik]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Ok, did you play this game and I mean that seriously.  In control, the kid says Shepard will lose his/her connection with them, but will still be aware of them.  It says thoughts and memories.  You are just trying to argue.  The kid is way more advanced too supposedly and he's crazy and has no concept of a lot of things, he has no feelings.  I am going by what it says and what it shows.  The things paragon control says are not paragon things.  You can belabor the point, but you are just arguing for no reason at all.  You do this every time I post.  Grow up.

Losing connection is not the same as being unable to communicate with. Thoughs, memories (including memories of emotions) are transfered from old Shepard to new, but that doesn't mean in any way that new Control Shepard doesn't have his own emotions. The kid isn't based on real person, unlike Shepard AI. You from one side try to defend Geth and EDI as genuine life (which I agree with), but on other hand you're pushing some ridiculous thesis about Shepard AI being emotion less and destined to be like the Catalyst. He's not. If you believe in synthetic life, there is no reason to fear Shepard AI.

3DandBeyond wrote...

They create one new type each cycle
from the most advanced race.  The human reaper is always called a
reaper.  I never said one individual new reaper is all they create.  
They began creating the human reaper or proto reaper, fine-that was a
new model.  They apparently intended to use humans to create this.  We
have no clue how many other reapers they make each cycle.  They do not
make more than one type of proto reaper per cycle. 

They
harvest a single species each cycle to make the capital ships with the
proto reaper core supposedly.  The other races go to make destroyers.

What
Prothean lookalike metal robot are you talking about?  There were no
Prothean reapers, there was a failed attempt at a prothean reaper.  The
Protheans became the Collectors, not reapers.

And they don't choose a race arbitrarily to make a new capital ship-it is the one they consider to be the most advanced.

You're wrong, please, read the codex and silly interview about human proto-reaper.

If you cathegorize Reapers models by their outer shell, harvested organics are made into one capital ship (with a core resembling the race arbitrarily chosen as the most advanced) and as many Destroyers as there are space faring races in the cycle (with each destroyer's core resembling another race). So it is either 2 new models, or "as many as there are races" new models. Human Reaper was never supposed to be something new, it is what is INSIDE the outer cuttlefish-like shell. That is why you can't prove there is no prothean Reaper too - if there is one, the metal prothean is inside one of the cuttlefish, so we can't know for sure.

Collectors were used as foot soldiers in the Prothean cycle (Javik's memories), just like Husks, Cannibals etc are used in our cycle. Since creating Husks didn't prevent the Reapers from building human Reaper, why would creating Collectors prevent them from building a Prothean Reaper? Everything we have against Prothean Reaper is EDI's ingame speculation, never presented as fact.

Their choice of the most advanced race is arbitrary. Why pick humans over Asari? (I know why it was done, but as of now it is retconned into "most advanced race").

http://www.gameinfor...PostPageIndex=1

Why do most of the Reapers we’ve seen so far have similar insect-like
appearances? The human Reaper looked different, but otherwise it seems
like the Reapers mainly build themselves out of bugs. Is that correct?
The exterior of the Reapers does follow a similar pattern, an efficient
design for the purpose they were created for. However each Reaper is
created from a unique species, and as we saw at the end of Mass Effect
2, the core of each Reaper is designed in the likeness of that species.

Modifié par Pitznik, 26 août 2012 - 09:27 .