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What annoys me most about Destroy


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#176
o Ventus

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IsaacShep wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

It's still a kind of totalitarian dictatorship though is it not?

Just because somone has means to be a dictator doesn't mean he is/will be. Rachni & Krogan will be huge forces in new Galaxy. They may completly dominate population-wise, military and economically. Doesn't mean they will terror other races. And considering that Shep AI talks all about everyone having voice blah blah, it certinately doesn't look to me like he wants to 'rule the galaxy himself'.


The Control ending probably isn't the best source of reference, knowing that it has 2 different epilogue outcomes.

#177
zambot

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Rocktel wrote...

zambot wrote...

The thing that I love best about Destroy is that if you sided with the Quarians, there is almost no downside to picking it!


Siding with the quarians is its own downside.


Not if you believe the Geth are just robots.

Or if you believe the Geth indoctrinated Shepard when he got plugged in to their collective.  Geth Indoctrination Theory.  (GIT)

#178
AresKeith

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Jade8aby88 wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

It's still a kind of totalitarian dictatorship though is it not?

Just because somone has means to be a dictator doesn't mean he is/will be. Rachni & Krogan will be huge forces in new Galaxy. They may completly dominate population-wise, military and economically. Doesn't mean they will terror other races. And considering that Shep AI talks all about everyone having voice blah blah, it certinately doesn't look to me like he wants to 'rule the galaxy himself'.


You mean itself.


but like I said before, as soon as a new conflict starts Shreaper will use the Reapers and end up harvesting to stop it

#179
Jadebaby

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SCRS JMFCHUCKIE wrote...

I'm disturbed that we lose one, one who placed a spot in our hearts and our feet (when we were AFK) and his name is KEI-9. KEI-9 boosted the morale of Lieutenant Steven Cortez and Lieutenant James Vega during their mission on the Normandy SR-2 to stop the Reaper Threat on Earth. Through Destroy, we lose so many dear:

*EDI
*KEI-9
*The Entire Geth Race


R.I.P

https://encrypted-tb...Cg3P12j-u0U-jLq

#180
3DandBeyond

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IsaacShep wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

No, you are,
Destroy because the problem will occur again. Not because it is inevitable, but because of your action in choosing destroy.

So if Destroy will result in another conflict (because of Destroy), how again it is ANY kind of solution for the Catalyst?

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Control because this new Catalyst isn't Shepard. Therefore you have no real control of what IT does or doesn't do. Thus this new catalyst falling back into a logically-flawed loop could happen again.

IT is created based on Shepard and Shepard's thoughts and personality guide IT. As we can clearly see,

Jade8aby88 wrote...
Basically, if the Catalyst's logic is flawed, you cannot pick either 3 of these options as they will be equally flawed as a result.

You're just looking for reason to equate all 3 options as bad because it didn't get happy ending. Nothing to do with constructive discussion.


Jade is right.  All solutions thus far that the kid has enacted are temporary.  Some may last longer but they always fall apart.  The reapers are not working because people have almost finished the crucible this time and Shepard discovered the kid.  Synthetics gained sapience.  This is not what the kid wanted at all.  Destroy does temporarily solve the problem-it destroys all synthetics.  That's the kid's goal.  So, it's achieved.  Not perfect, but nothing is.

Control is ominous.  It isn't Shepard-it is Shepard's thoughts and memories and not his/her personality.  Your personality and who you are is wrapped up in your feelings.  Shreaper has none of this.  My paragon Shepard as reaper controller says things that she would never say, so I know that is not Shepard.  And, who in their right mind would want to be buddies with reapers that have destroyed half their planet and have people goo in them?  No one.  Not ever.  And which Many will this god Shepard serve with the reapers as galactic police?  If the Krogan fight the Turians, who will Shreaper save?  Control doesn't necessarily get rid of the kid, it just adds Shepard's thoughts to the rest of the reaper beings.  It actually preserves the status quo and then some.  The reapers become a fact of life in the galaxy.  This peace is temporary.

Synthesis is wrong on so many levels.  The kid wants it most of all.  He's going to give synthetics full understanding of organics?  How?  And really how does that guarantee they still won't become killer robots?  Understand your enemy, know your enemy.  I understand mosquitoes.  I squish them.  But still how will the kid impart this understanding?  Where does he get it from and what is it?  Is it the knowledge that organics are made of flesh and blood and bone and can be squished like mosquitoes?  Because I don't think the kid has a clue of what it's like to be a living breathing organic being and those thought bubbles inside reapers have no emotions, so they don't still even understand what being organic means.  And perfection through tech?  No thanks.  Don't want reaper tech in me and if the kid is the model, he is far from perfect.  Again, it is temporary, because very understanding killer robots could exist with full understanding of organics that no longer exist.  And someone could create organic and synthetic life and the kid still exists somewhere.

All 3 choices stem from the same tree.  They can't be separated.

#181
Jadebaby

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o Ventus wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

It's still a kind of totalitarian dictatorship though is it not?

Just because somone has means to be a dictator doesn't mean he is/will be. Rachni & Krogan will be huge forces in new Galaxy. They may completly dominate population-wise, military and economically. Doesn't mean they will terror other races. And considering that Shep AI talks all about everyone having voice blah blah, it certinately doesn't look to me like he wants to 'rule the galaxy himself'.


The Control ending probably isn't the best source of reference, knowing that it has 2 different epilogue outcomes.


tyrant/dictator, doesn't make much difference. Once a problem comes along the new Catalysts programming will be required to act again.

#182
o Ventus

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Jade8aby88 wrote...

tyrant/dictator, doesn't make much difference. Once a problem comes along the new Catalysts programming will be required to act again.


Most likely. ControlShepardCatalyst is more annoying than the regular Catalyst.

#183
3DandBeyond

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o Ventus wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

It's still a kind of totalitarian dictatorship though is it not?

Just because somone has means to be a dictator doesn't mean he is/will be. Rachni & Krogan will be huge forces in new Galaxy. They may completly dominate population-wise, military and economically. Doesn't mean they will terror other races. And considering that Shep AI talks all about everyone having voice blah blah, it certinately doesn't look to me like he wants to 'rule the galaxy himself'.


The Control ending probably isn't the best source of reference, knowing that it has 2 different epilogue outcomes.


But even the paragon control ending is made to sound ominious and creepy and Shepard in that says things a paragon wouldn't.  A control Shepard would make judgements based on thoughts and memories, but without the nuance of feeling, emotion.  Even indicating the reapers will be there to protect the Many leaves you to have to ask, which Many.  If the Krogan and Rachni fight, who do the reapers help?  Even if they kill no one, it means they will rule or "protect" through fear.  And this will be soul-killing.  And how many people would really be super happy having reapers as the galactic police and repair guys?  They have people goo in them.

#184
o Ventus

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3DandBeyond wrote...

But even the paragon control ending is made to sound ominious and creepy and Shepard in that says things a paragon wouldn't.  A control Shepard would make judgements based on thoughts and memories, but without the nuance of feeling, emotion.  Even indicating the reapers will be there to protect the Many leaves you to have to ask, which Many.  If the Krogan and Rachni fight, who do the reapers help?  Even if they kill no one, it means they will rule or "protect" through fear.  And this will be soul-killing.  And how many people would really be super happy having reapers as the galactic police and repair guys?  They have people goo in them.


Doesn't matter, people don't tend to think of those things anyway. Bioware noticed this.

#185
Jadebaby

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o Ventus wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

But even the paragon control ending is made to sound ominious and creepy and Shepard in that says things a paragon wouldn't.  A control Shepard would make judgements based on thoughts and memories, but without the nuance of feeling, emotion.  Even indicating the reapers will be there to protect the Many leaves you to have to ask, which Many.  If the Krogan and Rachni fight, who do the reapers help?  Even if they kill no one, it means they will rule or "protect" through fear.  And this will be soul-killing.  And how many people would really be super happy having reapers as the galactic police and repair guys?  They have people goo in them.


Doesn't matter, people don't tend to think of those things anyway. Bioware noticed this.


Funny, this very thread is indicative of the opposite.

I really do hope there's something more brilliant behind these endings then "OmG ConTroL ReaPeRZ CoOL!" or "aW woW, nEw LyF FoRmz WicKeD!" or "yAY! ReaPeRz Dy 2dAY! yAy!"

#186
Apocaleepse360

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o Ventus wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

It's still a kind of totalitarian dictatorship though is it not?

Just because somone has means to be a dictator doesn't mean he is/will be. Rachni & Krogan will be huge forces in new Galaxy. They may completly dominate population-wise, military and economically. Doesn't mean they will terror other races. And considering that Shep AI talks all about everyone having voice blah blah, it certinately doesn't look to me like he wants to 'rule the galaxy himself'.


The Control ending probably isn't the best source of reference, knowing that it has 2 different epilogue outcomes.

And that's one good thing I can say about the endings. At least there was a difference between paragon and renegade Shepard in the Control ending.

#187
Bill Casey

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Not much...

#188
o Ventus

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Jade8aby88 wrote...

I really do hope there's something more brilliant behind these endings then "OmG ConTroL ReaPeRZ CoOL!" or "aW woW, nEw LyF FoRmz WicKeD!" or "yAY! ReaPeRz Dy 2dAY! yAy!"


I'm a frayed knot.

In al seriousness, I doubt it. It's a Mac Walters piece, after all.

#189
3DandBeyond

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Jade8aby88 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

But even the paragon control ending is made to sound ominious and creepy and Shepard in that says things a paragon wouldn't.  A control Shepard would make judgements based on thoughts and memories, but without the nuance of feeling, emotion.  Even indicating the reapers will be there to protect the Many leaves you to have to ask, which Many.  If the Krogan and Rachni fight, who do the reapers help?  Even if they kill no one, it means they will rule or "protect" through fear.  And this will be soul-killing.  And how many people would really be super happy having reapers as the galactic police and repair guys?  They have people goo in them.


Doesn't matter, people don't tend to think of those things anyway. Bioware noticed this.




Funny, this very thread is indicative of the opposite.

I really do hope there's something more brilliant behind these endings then "OmG ConTroL ReaPeRZ CoOL!" or "aW woW, nEw LyF FoRmz WicKeD!" or "yAY! ReaPeRz Dy 2dAY! yAy!"


That's exactly it.  I cannot remember anyone picking control saying anything other than it is so cool to be reaper god.  There's no justification of it as a choice.  I even can make the case that it is not a choice a renegade Shepard would pick-it means a total disconnect from life and the possible pleasures it affords.  I think a renegade would say, "hell no".  I can't even conceive of a fully autonomous TIM choosing that kind of control.  That renegade might consider destroy, but it has problems as well of course, since it is described so poorly that anyone with a brain would ask at least this one question, "what the hell happens to me?"

And I'm sorry but the reasons for picking Synthesis just range from ignoring everything the kid says to ignoring standard tenets of basic morality as it applies to people's bodies.  These endings might all be cool dark generic video game endings, but are not great ME endings.  These endings and the fact that Shepard even listens to the kid's garbage and has no other true choice (as in refuse and an authentic attempt to do the impossible) creates an emotional disconnect from Shepard.  It's bad enough what happens to Shepard with the whole TIM scene and shooting Anderson, but Anderson's death is emotional so it helps-it's just Shepard doesn't even seem to care.  And then endings don't rehabilitate Shepard's characters.  Well, the refuse speech does, but it's not even a real authentic honest option. 

#190
Jadebaby

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Bill Casey wrote...

Not much...


Does this prove IT?

#191
Bill Casey

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No, but the game does...

#192
Jadebaby

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Bill Casey wrote...

No, but Dinosaur dlc does...


I agree

#193
Memnon

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What annoys me is that while he knows it's going to explode, Shepard walks right up to it to make sure he as close as freaking possible to the explosion while shooting it. I've been shooting Cerberus operatives in the eyes from 200 meters, and popping heads off Cannibals and Husks while dodging between Brute charges. I beat Garrus - aka Archangel who singlehandedly headshot half of Omega - in a shooting contest. I can hit the damn tube FROM ACROSS THE ROOM!

#194
Jadebaby

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Stornskar wrote...

What annoys me is that while he knows it's going to explode, Shepard walks right up to it to make sure he as close as freaking possible to the explosion while shooting it. I've been shooting Cerberus operatives in the eyes from 200 meters, and popping heads off Cannibals and Husks while dodging between Brute charges. I beat Garrus - aka Archangel who singlehandedly headshot half of Omega - in a shooting contest. I can hit the damn tube FROM ACROSS THE ROOM!


I think it's more the fact that the Predator's bullet pentetration requires Shep to get closer for it to peirce through the shield and glass.

It's either that or, as TAO would say;

"Forced sacrificed! YAY!"

#195
AresKeith

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Jade8aby88 wrote...

Stornskar wrote...

What annoys me is that while he knows it's going to explode, Shepard walks right up to it to make sure he as close as freaking possible to the explosion while shooting it. I've been shooting Cerberus operatives in the eyes from 200 meters, and popping heads off Cannibals and Husks while dodging between Brute charges. I beat Garrus - aka Archangel who singlehandedly headshot half of Omega - in a shooting contest. I can hit the damn tube FROM ACROSS THE ROOM!


I think it's more the fact that the Predator's bullet pentetration requires Shep to get closer for it to peirce through the shield and glass.

It's either that or, as TAO would say;

"Forced sacrificed! YAY!"


I was like, you was shooting it fine from right there, STOP MOVING 

#196
shepskisaac

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SCRS JMFCHUCKIE wrote...

KEI-9 boosted the morale of Lieutenant Steven Cortez and Lieutenant James Vega during their mission on the Normandy SR-2 to stop the Reaper Threat on Earth.

Actually it's cerveza that was boosting Vega and Steve's morale during the mission on the Normandy SR-2 but yeah, poor KEI-9 :P

o Ventus wrote...

The Control ending probably isn't the best source of reference, knowing that it has 2 different epilogue outcomes.

And there's a big difference in how Shep AI talks in Renegade and Paragon version

AresKeith wrote...

but like I said before, as soon as a new conflict starts Shreaper will use the Reapers and end up harvesting to stop it

And when I see this happening in say, ME4, I will admit you were right. Until then, nothing implies Shepard wants to have anything to do with Starbrat's brilliant solutions

#197
Apocaleepse360

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Jade8aby88 wrote...

Stornskar wrote...

What annoys me is that while he knows it's going to explode, Shepard walks right up to it to make sure he as close as freaking possible to the explosion while shooting it. I've been shooting Cerberus operatives in the eyes from 200 meters, and popping heads off Cannibals and Husks while dodging between Brute charges. I beat Garrus - aka Archangel who singlehandedly headshot half of Omega - in a shooting contest. I can hit the damn tube FROM ACROSS THE ROOM!


I think it's more the fact that the Predator's bullet pentetration requires Shep to get closer for it to peirce through the shield and glass.

It's either that or, as TAO would say;

"Forced sacrificed! YAY!"

Same can be said about the other endings, to be honest.

Shepard could have spat into the green beam of light. That would have carried his/her DNA needed for Synthesis.

And why did Control need to dissolve Shepard, when we have scanning techology even today? A bit harsh, if you ask me.

Forced sacrificed indeed.

Modifié par Apocaleepse360, 25 août 2012 - 01:43 .


#198
KENNY4753

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Stornskar wrote...

What annoys me is that while he knows it's going to explode, Shepard walks right up to it to make sure he as close as freaking possible to the explosion while shooting it. I've been shooting Cerberus operatives in the eyes from 200 meters, and popping heads off Cannibals and Husks while dodging between Brute charges. I beat Garrus - aka Archangel who singlehandedly headshot half of Omega - in a shooting contest. I can hit the damn tube FROM ACROSS THE ROOM!

If I still had my black widow i would have sniped it from as far away as possible

#199
Jadebaby

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IsaacShep wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

but like I said before, as soon as a new conflict starts Shreaper will use the Reapers and end up harvesting to stop it

And when I see this happening in say, ME4, I will admit you were right. Until then, nothing implies Shepard wants to have anything to do with Starbrat's brilliant solutions


If you pick control, it is no longer about what Shepard or starbrat wants, because they are the same entity now.

#200
shepskisaac

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Jade8aby88 wrote...

If you pick control, it is no longer about what Shepard or starbrat wants, because they are the same entity now.

No, Starbrat doesn't exist anymore. They're not fusing together. Shep deletes Starbrat and uploads himself.

Jade8aby88 wrote...

tyrant/dictator, doesn't make much difference. Once a problem comes along the new Catalysts programming will be required to act again.

What programming? Shep AI is new, it's created from Shep. It's not programmed by Leviathans.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 25 août 2012 - 01:44 .