61 réponses à ce sujet

[Pseron Wyrd]

Torias wrote...
...you can use the toolset / mods to implement it back the way it was...

This is true. But the same argument could be turned around too: we were always free to nerf it ourselves if we thought the stats were overpowered. Why did Bioware need to do it? If the answer is: because console users could not use such a mod then the argument that we can use the toolset to change it back is invalid.

Torias wrote...
sometimes trusting them is a good thing.

I actually think this is at the heart of why many people are upset about the change. They trusted Bioware...and they feel that Bioware ninja'd them with this nerf. Rightly or wrongly, it's precisely because they did trust Bioware that they feel betrayed about this.

I believe that had Bioware announced ahead of time that they were thinking about nerfing the gear and had given the community an opportunity to express their views on the subject we wouldn't be reading phrases like 'bait and switch' and 'unethical' now. These folks still might not like the change but at least they wouldn't feel someone had pulled a fast one on them.

That said, this is pretty much a non-issue for me. I stopped using the armor because the stuff is too ugly to wear in public and the stats ruined the game. But I understand why a person might be driven to use the word 'unethical' in this case.

Modifié par Pseron Wyrd, 24 décembre 2009 - 09:54 .

[SymbolicGamer]

Jazz, do you realize what you are typing?



You are claiming Bioware is forcing you to NOT wear armor you wouldn't wear anyway.



This is almost as bad as when people were outraged over Lionhead's inclusion of Hal's Armor in Fable II. Said it ruined the game because it didn't fit in.



*sighs*

[Hulk Hsieh]

J.O.G wrote...

No, if you buy a used copy of DA:O the only way to get it is buying a new copy of ME2

Wikia says it is a $10 DLC for user with used copy.
Well, need someone with a used copy to clarify then.

http://dragonage.wik...od_Dragon_Armor

[J.O.G]

Hulk Hsieh wrote...

J.O.G wrote...

No, if you buy a used copy of DA:O the only way to get it is buying a new copy of ME2

Wikia says it is a $10 DLC for user with used copy.
Well, need someone with a used copy to clarify then.

http://dragonage.wik...od_Dragon_Armor

Bioware says it's "included" while Shale is $15 and contained in every new retail box
http://dragonage.bioware.com/addon/

Modifié par J.O.G, 24 décembre 2009 - 10:00 .

[Hulk Hsieh]

J.O.G wrote...

Bioware says it's "included" while shale is $15 and contained in every new retail box
http://dragonage.bioware.com/addon/

In the text it is "Purchase a new copy of Dragon Age: Origins (regular or Collector's Edition) and receive a code to download Blood Dragon Armor, a full set of armor that grants exceptional protection in combat."

So we are still unsure if the users of used copies are shelling out bucks for it.

[Pauldarian]

Torias wrote...

th3warr1or wrote...

But all the 'balancing' issues, don't have to be fixed at all. Even if everything was free, it's a SINGLE player... what's there to fix? Don't like it don't use it... Now people who like it can't use it...

Yes, the balancing issues should be fixed to make it a more fun game, to better implement bioware's editiorial and design goals.

If you want an overpowered item, you can use the toolset / mods to implement it back the way it was before it was fixed. THAT is the beauty of a single player game, the fact you can override the developers choices if you want.

BUT, you run the risk of spoiling your fun, cause these developers are pretty good at what they do and sometimes trusting them is a good thing.

I agree and disagree, the toolset can only be used if you have a PC, in my case I play this game on multiple facets, I own the PC version of the game I also own the xbox360 version, I imagine at some point I will get to the ps3 version as well and lets not forget the mac version since that is my main system of use. 

I am all for game balancing however so I get what you are saying. I'm guessing some console players may feel well cheated however. ( But I also am not so relentless because i understand that even if ea/bio/Eor made a toolset for a console that the submission guidlines would kill it)  Granted you cannot please everyone, I've also advocated that if people have complaints to send a well written nice letter detailing these complains and to send it registered mail.

Granted also that my "fix" as it were isn't that realistic that maybe each nerf/errata/change could have the option of the player to have it fixed assuming it doesn't break gameplay. 

But again that is just my personal opinion 
But what does a stereotypical 1993 teenager traped in 1998 in a 30 year old man's body know

[SymbolicGamer]

I bought the game for 360 a couple weeks ago. There was a sticker on the packaging that says it contains the armor.



I'd assume as long as they are still advertising it being included on the website, it'd be in digitally distributed games as well.

[J.O.G]

In the text it is "Purchase a new copy of Dragon Age: Origins (regular or Collector's Edition) and receive a code to download Blood Dragon Armor, a full set of armor that grants exceptional protection in combat."

So we are still unsure if the users of used copies are shelling out bucks for it.

It says "Included" where Stone Prisoner says "$15"

Anyway. I just did the following:

1. Renamed my settings and addins folders
2. Started DAO and created a new account.

Result:
Available: Watcher's Keep and Stone Prisoner
Downloading: Nothing
Installed: Nothing

q.e.d.

Modifié par J.O.G, 24 décembre 2009 - 10:14 .

[Question2]

Blood dragon is weak, even in its 1.0 version.



You can easily get warden commander very early in the game and its much better especially paired with teh executioner helm. Your tank has a ton of stamina and can keep up shield defense/wall, threaten and rally easily, while also using shield bash, pummel and warcry.



Without the massive +stamina bonuses, a solitary tank wont have the stamina to keep up threeaten, rally and shield defense/wall and also run around using CC abilities.



In the end i end up using blood dragon on a secondary warrior character that only fights in the final battle...

[JaegerBane]

Torias wrote...

No.
Bioware are fixing a problem with the game.
The problem was that Blood Dragon Armor was not properly balanced with the rest of the equipment in the game AND was available for too early / cheaply.
It disrupts the gameplay experience in it's original form.
Bioware tried to fix that.

Torias, if anyone truely believed that it was unbalanced to the point where it affected the gameplay they just wouldn't use it until late game.

This idea that Bioware were 'fixing a problem' by fiddling with a random item stats is absurd.

[knownastherat]

Maybe the "bugs fixing" team wanted to have one more thing on their "done" list as they, as everyone else, need to show some "work" for the money they are getting paid and that is all there is to it.



Game balance, fun, fixing, cheap, gameplay experience .. sometimes cigar is just a cigar

[Skellimancer]

How about nerfing all DLC items?

[F-C]

J.O.G wrote...

In the text it is "Purchase a new copy of Dragon Age: Origins (regular or Collector's Edition) and receive a code to download Blood Dragon Armor, a full set of armor that grants exceptional protection in combat."

So we are still unsure if the users of used copies are shelling out bucks for it.

It says "Included" where Stone Prisoner says "$15"

Anyway. I just did the following:

1. Renamed my settings and addins folders
2. Started DAO and created a new account.

Result:
Available: Watcher's Keep and Stone Prisoner
Downloading: Nothing
Installed: Nothing

q.e.d.

if it tags your IP address when you register doing that wouldnt prove anything.

you would need to go to another homes computer with a different IP, install it there, and then see.

Modifié par F-C, 24 décembre 2009 - 09:09 .

[T0paze]

The whole concept is ridiculous anyway. It only works for some origins.

I mean, a city elf or a dwarf commoner having in their possession one of the best chestplates in the game (not to mention other items)? Human noble - sure. Dwarf noble - sure. Mage or Dalish Elf - er, not so sure, but OK. Dwarf Commoner or City Elf - you've gotta be kidding.

Modifié par T0paze, 24 décembre 2009 - 09:20 .

[Rolenka]

If you haven't looked, the wiki has a stat comparison. There's hardly any difference. In fact calling it a "nerf" is questionable.

[F-C]

Rolenka wrote...

If you haven't looked, the wiki has a stat comparison. There's hardly any difference. In fact calling it a "nerf" is questionable.

well it breaks down like this if you wear the whole set:

1.0 version
+3 Strength
+3 Willpower
+7 Armor
+1 Defense
+1 Missile Deflection
+50 Health
-10% Fatigue


new version :
+7 Defense
+40 Health
+3 Armor
+1 Missile Deflection

less stats, less armor, less health, more fatigue all for 6 defense.

if you were making a dex monkey build to try and avoid every attack then you might like the new set better, otherwise it is a nerf.

however considering the armor is basically free i sort of agree with bioware on the topic, freebie items shouldnt outshine earned gear.

[TheRealIncarnal]

Torias wrote...

No.
Bioware are fixing a problem with the game.
The problem was that Blood Dragon Armor was not properly balanced with the rest of the equipment in the game AND was available for too early / cheaply.
It disrupts the gameplay experience in it's original form.
Bioware tried to fix that.

I'm actually going to have to say that it is indeed bait and switch. The armor was exactly as advertised in the game. It's the user's decision to use it or not, but people paid for the advertised product. Mucking about with DLC is an extremely slippery slope bordering on unethical. Please use more caution when dealing with DLC changes in the future, as every change made can possibly undermine Bioware's reputation as a DLC vendor, and I really don't want that to happen. 

[JaegerBane]

Skellimancer wrote...

How about nerfing all DLC items?

*facepalm*

Any particular reason why? Or are we just demanding nerfs for ****s and giiggles?

[Atmosfear3]

Nerfing things in a singleplayer experience is srs bizness guys.

[J.O.G]

F-C wrote...

J.O.G wrote...
1. Renamed my settings and addins folders
2. Started DAO and created a new account.

Result:
Available: Watcher's Keep and Stone Prisoner
Downloading: Nothing
Installed: Nothing

q.e.d.

if it tags your IP address when you register doing that wouldnt prove anything.

you would need to go to another homes computer with a different IP, install it there, and then see.

This is getting ridiculous.

1. If they indeed logged my IP then my promo DLCs would still be available, and Watcher's Keep and Stone Prisoner would still be purchased and downloading.

2. Outside the US, IPs for private homes usually are assigned dynamically. I just need to turn off my DSL router and I'll get a new IP. If I never turn it off, I'd still get a new IP once every 24 hours.

3. currently the price on the Wiki is 9000 Darseks

4. Blood Dragon Armor is not available on XBOX live, at least not in Europe, and I'm too lazy to use a proxy to get to the us pages. I don't have an XBOX, do you think Microsoft is spying on me, and are only offering me things I don't own already? then why are they offering Stone Prisoner and Watcher's Keep?

It may be available for purchase at some point, but right now it's a promo giveaway to motivate people that intend to buy ME2, to have a look on DA:O as well.

Anyway. Those PC users who feel betrayed just have to download and install the old version. The console users are used to be at  the mercy of greedy companies anyway, and the cylon disguise was the first promo giveaway I deactivated... What are we even arguing about?

Modifié par J.O.G, 24 décembre 2009 - 10:31 .

[bjdbwea]

Download the toolset and change the armor's values in whatever way you like?

[SymbolicGamer]

bjdbwea wrote...

Download the toolset and change the armor's values in whatever way you like?

You do know that this game was released for more than one platform, correct?

As the other users stated before, there's no toolset for the console versions of the game.

[Rolenka]

F-C wrote...

Rolenka wrote...

If you haven't looked, the wiki has a stat comparison. There's hardly any difference. In fact calling it a "nerf" is questionable.

well it breaks down like this if you wear the whole set:

1.0 version
+3 Strength
+3 Willpower
+7 Armor
+1 Defense
+1 Missile Deflection
+50 Health
-10% Fatigue


new version :
+7 Defense
+40 Health
+3 Armor
+1 Missile Deflection

less stats, less armor, less health, more fatigue all for 6 defense.

if you were making a dex monkey build to try and avoid every attack then you might like the new set better, otherwise it is a nerf.

however considering the armor is basically free i sort of agree with bioware on the topic, freebie items shouldnt outshine earned gear.

K so you lose: 

3 Strength
3 Willpower
4 Armor
10 Health
10% Fatigue

and gain: 

6 Defense.

Maybe later I'll compare what the stats mean... if nobody else wants to...

[Tirigon]

Lol, so it got nerfed. Nice. I noticed once that it had other stats, but it didnt really change my game experience at all, and I did hardly notice it. Well, I´m only using it for the looks anyways, wades armors and legion of the dead armor are better.

[ITSSEXYTIME]

th3warr1or wrote...

But all the 'balancing' issues, don't have to be fixed at all. Even if everything was free, it's a SINGLE player... what's there to fix? Don't like it don't use it... Now people who like it can't use it...

Normally I agree with this argument except in the case of DLC items.  Should I not be able to use the items that I essentially paid extra for (Collectors Edition, DLC) without having to worry about making the game significantly easier for myself than if I had not bought those items?

Let's argue the otherside of the issue we.  Why can't YOU still use the armour in it's more balanced form?  It's still one of the best suits of armour in the game, plus it looks pretty cool.  Considering it's possible to play the game naked and be successful it's hardly an issue of stats.