84 réponses à ce sujet

[Wrathion]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Alexandrine Delassixe wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...


true I guess. The problem is it's hard to be PC now a days with something like that. One RPG I like a lot is an old PS2 title called Rogue Galaxy, that featured a tribal character named Lilika in the cast...

 

I mean I know it's not racist at all, in fact she was a pretty unique character because she was a long-range fighter for the most part, while the rest of the cast had primarily melee attacks, but if it becomes too close to something realistic, it then becomes a bit...touchy.

Like from this design we get a decent mix of native american/african/mayan culture. Something that is an amalgam of culture would be stronger IMO, design 101 really, kind of like what they did with the various countries in Thedas being based on Europe. 

Erm, have you ever heard of racial caricatures? That is definitely what she is. Is she Native American? If so, what tribe? Is her outfit inspired from their traditional clothings or just patched together from things you THINK Natives wear. 
I think the IDEA of mixing together cultures to make something awesome is nice but...people just don't do representing ONE culture right sometimes and it makes me sad.

Actually shes not insomuch a caricature in the sense of what you believe. In-game (which is basically pirates in space) she is from a jungle planet, so there is a mix of native american/mayan culture in her design. And as a historian its easy to see the inspirations: The feathers are the first thing you notice, but we also have a jaguar-printed clothing and skins, the leather wraps which are primarily a mayan influenece over native american, who tended to have longer sleeved clothing in most instances. Her mask is also a mix of native american and africian origins.

The point I was making is that the idea of mixing cultures to make something is common and is usually done. Sometimes they don't, but this is obviously one of those examples where it can go either way. Dragon Age has sort of avoided that problem, although it is clear which group has influences which in terms of real-world analogues, and let's be honest, most of them are caricature's in the end too. Orlais and Antivia in particular. 

I'll take you word for it.[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie] Since i'll...probably never  play the game. Though I'm curious as to how she acts.

I like the idea but not in Dragon Age now. It'll seem of odd to me that THESE countrys "Orlais, Fereldan, Kirkwall" can have this type of clothing/culture/language all on their own from specific real world countries. But then they turn around and start mixing up the cultures of non-European countries/states/tribes/people to put in to (probably) one Thedasian country. That's were my excitment ends. I would love to see it though. 
Things you can't have...*creys*

Just so you know. I wasn't snarking at you or anything in my last post. 

I really feel like my english is suffering right now. Just tell me if you can't understand it. Urgh.

Avejajed wrote...



Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the post was meant to say that drawing from several types of cultures, regardless of which ones, and adding new elements, may be better for the DA world than simply taking directly from one culture/tribe period. Regardless, someone's going to get offended no matter what anyone does and that's what makes me sad.

Not today, Not today.

[brushyourteeth]

Yeah, like I said I just think it'd be crazy to get all the way up north to Seheron (or meet someone from there) and find out they're lily-white or just lightly bronzed.

Also, I just want to see some BA-looking rebels, and those pictures are definitely an exhibit A in awesomeness. Whatever the devs come up with will be great, but you can't beat that. Seriously.

[Wrathion]

brushyourteeth wrote...

Yeah, like I said I just think it'd be crazy to get all the way up north to Seheron (or meet someone from there) and find out they're lily-white or just lightly bronzed.

Also, I just want to see some BA-looking rebels, and those pictures are definitely an exhibit A in awesomeness. Whatever the devs come up with will be great, but you can't beat that. Seriously.

This makes me curious about the Chasind. We've already seen some and there are about 50,000 codex entries in Origins but...I want to SEE them.
It's too early in the morning to be this excited. Thanks a lot XD

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Alexandrine Delassixe wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

Yeah, like I said I just think it'd be crazy to get all the way up north to Seheron (or meet someone from there) and find out they're lily-white or just lightly bronzed.

Also, I just want to see some BA-looking rebels, and those pictures are definitely an exhibit A in awesomeness. Whatever the devs come up with will be great, but you can't beat that. Seriously.

This makes me curious about the Chasind. We've already seen some and there are about 50,000 codex entries in Origins but...I want to SEE them.
It's too early in the morning to be this excited. Thanks a lot XD

I saw them in Lothering. They looked like everybody else, just darker.

[brushyourteeth]

Alexandrine Delassixe wrote...

I'll take you word for it. Since i'll...probably never  play the game. Though I'm curious as to how she acts.

I like the idea but not in Dragon Age now. It'll seem of odd to me that THESE countrys "Orlais, Fereldan, Kirkwall" can have this type of clothing/culture/language all on their own from specific real world countries. But then they turn around and start mixing up the cultures of non-European countries/states/tribes/people to put in to (probably) one Thedasian country. That's were my excitment ends. I would love to see it though. 
Things you can't have...*creys*

Just so you know. I wasn't snarking at you or anything in my last post. 

I really feel like my english is suffering right now. Just tell me if you can't understand it. Urgh.

I think I know where you're coming from - how it's kind of not okay that England gets to have its own country represented in DA but all of Africa's cultures might have to be smooshed together into one tiny island to be represented.

... which definitely makes some sense, but nobody's getting represented in a factual way since it's fantasy, and Thedas geography is kinda like upside-down European geography, with North being hot and South being cool. But in real life if you go south of Spain (Antiva?), guess where you end up? Africa! 

[LinksOcarina]

Alexandrine Delassixe wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

Alexandrine Delassixe wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...


true I guess. The problem is it's hard to be PC now a days with something like that. One RPG I like a lot is an old PS2 title called Rogue Galaxy, that featured a tribal character named Lilika in the cast...

 

I mean I know it's not racist at all, in fact she was a pretty unique character because she was a long-range fighter for the most part, while the rest of the cast had primarily melee attacks, but if it becomes too close to something realistic, it then becomes a bit...touchy.

Like from this design we get a decent mix of native american/african/mayan culture. Something that is an amalgam of culture would be stronger IMO, design 101 really, kind of like what they did with the various countries in Thedas being based on Europe. 

Erm, have you ever heard of racial caricatures? That is definitely what she is. Is she Native American? If so, what tribe? Is her outfit inspired from their traditional clothings or just patched together from things you THINK Natives wear. 
I think the IDEA of mixing together cultures to make something awesome is nice but...people just don't do representing ONE culture right sometimes and it makes me sad.

She was

Actually shes not insomuch a caricature in the sense of what you believe. In-game (which is basically pirates in space) she is from a jungle planet, so there is a mix of native american/mayan culture in her design. And as a historian its easy to see the inspirations: The feathers are the first thing you notice, but we also have a jaguar-printed clothing and skins, the leather wraps which are primarily a mayan influenece over native american, who tended to have longer sleeved clothing in most instances. Her mask is also a mix of native american and africian origins.

The point I was making is that the idea of mixing cultures to make something is common and is usually done. Sometimes they don't, but this is obviously one of those examples where it can go either way. Dragon Age has sort of avoided that problem, although it is clear which group has influences which in terms of real-world analogues, and let's be honest, most of them are caricature's in the end too. Orlais and Antivia in particular. 

I'll take you word for it.[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie] Since i'll...probably never  play the game. Though I'm curious as to how she acts.

I like the idea but not in Dragon Age now. It'll seem of odd to me that THESE countrys "Orlais, Fereldan, Kirkwall" can have this type of clothing/culture/language all on their own from specific real world countries. But then they turn around and start mixing up the cultures of non-European countries/states/tribes/people to put in to (probably) one Thedasian country. That's were my excitment ends. I would love to see it though. 
Things you can't have...*creys*

Just so you know. I wasn't snarking at you or anything in my last post. 

I really feel like my english is suffering right now. Just tell me if you can't understand it. Urgh.

Eh, the Qunari are already that to some degree. And let's be honest, we haven't seen the Anderfels, Rivaini, or Nevarra at all yet.

As for her, she is the typical tough girl character but has a few good moments that go against the stereotype. I mean the game is pretty light hearted for the most part, more of a comedy than a serious space opera over anything else, but really fun if you like light RPG bits like weapon collecting/synthesiszing, hunting monsters for points and new equipment, and so forth. 

On the plus side, Greg Ellis (Cullen)  voices a character in it with a full on scottish accent, and Steven Blum makes an apperance as well.  It is worth a look imo, a good forgotten RPG if you like light RPGs.

And no offense taken. Sorry if it seemed like I did do something. 

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 25 août 2012 - 05:07 .

[brushyourteeth]

... also being loosely represented is better than being not represented at all.

I'm not saying we need dark-skinned people for real-life social or political reasons (though I understand where people are coming from with those) - I'm just saying that in the lore far north should equal darker and darker skin, and the people in those pictures look AMAZING. I mean, they inspire me and I'm not even an artsy type.

[deuce985]

I'm all for this! Heck yes!

More cultural variety in the DA universe, the better. I endorse! Where is the like button on this forum?

Also, didn't Bioware mention somewhere that their engine doesn't render black people well? Or am I imagining that? 

Modifié par deuce985, 25 août 2012 - 05:12 .

[EpicBoot2daFace]

[Wrathion]

brushyourteeth wrote...


I think I know where you're coming from - how it's kind of not okay that England gets to have its own country represented in DA but all of Africa's cultures might have to be smooshed together into one tiny island to be represented.

... which definitely makes some sense, but nobody's getting represented in a factual way since it's fantasy, and Thedas geography is kinda like upside-down European geography, with North being hot and South being cool. But in real life if you go south of Spain (Antiva?), guess where you end up? Africa! 

Haha, You'd think it was totally based on Europe. Considering how the other threads ended (Or started)

 "Where are the brown people?"
"FERELDAN IS ENGLAND TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY ENGLAND RIGHT TO THE TEE ENGLAND ENGLAND ENGLAND THERE'S NOTHING ABOUT IT THAT'S NOT ENGLAND SO NO BROWN PEOPLE."

Have they mentioned featuring Fog Warriors in the next game?
Off topic... Thedas is a continent right? 

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...
I saw them in Lothering. They looked like everybody else, just darker.

I know but we never actually see them doing anything. Or anything related to who they are as a peaple. Other than yelling manaically, and defending themselves against accusations of stealing. All in Lothering (unless I missed others)

LinksOcarina wrote...


Eh, the Qunari are already that to some degree. And let's be honest, we haven't seen the Anderfels, Rivaini, or Nevarra at all yet.

I thought Anderfels was mentioned to be German or Scandanavian. Reaffirmed in my mind once I read Anders (cough) came from there. I think I a lot of people believe that Nevarrans are just...Fereldan looking considering Cassandra though she looks...Latin@ to me. Her movie ruined it for me. 

On the plus side, Greg Ellis (Cullen)  voices a character in it with a full on scottish accent, and Steven Blum makes an apperance as well.  It is worth a look imo, a good forgotten RPG if you like light RPGs.

God, Greg Ellis his voice is all over. Is he not English? I always cringe when people fake accents.

Modifié par Alexandrine Delassixe, 25 août 2012 - 05:24 .

[brushyourteeth]

deuce985 wrote...

I'm all for this! Heck yes!

More cultural variety in the DA universe, the better. I endorse! Where is the like button on this forum?

Also, didn't Bioware mention somewhere that their engine doesn't render black people well? Or am I imagining that? 

You could give it 5 stars? Tell your friends? Send me a fruit basket? 

And that's an awesome gif.

... and the devs did say the engine renders dark skin poorly in DA:O (they weren't kidding - blotchy and sad!) but word has it we'll have a new engine soon, so here's hoping! If it can't even make decent dark skin, I can't imagine how hard it was to work with on more complex creature colorations. 

[EpicBoot2daFace]

brushyourteeth wrote...

deuce985 wrote...

I'm all for this! Heck yes!

More cultural variety in the DA universe, the better. I endorse! Where is the like button on this forum?

Also, didn't Bioware mention somewhere that their engine doesn't render black people well? Or am I imagining that? 

You could give it 5 stars? Tell your friends? Send me a fruit basket? 

And that's an awesome gif.

... and the devs did say the engine renders dark skin poorly in DA:O (they weren't kidding - blotchy and sad!) but word has it we'll have a new engine soon, so here's hoping! If it can't even make decent dark skin, I can't imagine how hard it was to work with on more complex creature colorations. 

Did they really say that? Do you believe them?

[brushyourteeth]

Alexandrine Delassixe wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...


I think I know where you're coming from - how it's kind of not okay that England gets to have its own country represented in DA but all of Africa's cultures might have to be smooshed together into one tiny island to be represented.

... which definitely makes some sense, but nobody's getting represented in a factual way since it's fantasy, and Thedas geography is kinda like upside-down European geography, with North being hot and South being cool. But in real life if you go south of Spain (Antiva?), guess where you end up? Africa! 

Haha, You'd think it was totally based on Europe. Considering how the other threads ended (Or started)

 "Where are the brown people?"
"FERELDAN IS ENGLAND TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY ENGLAND RIGHT TO THE TEE ENGLAND ENGLAND ENGLAND THERE'S NOTHING ABOUT IT THAT'S NOT ENGLAND SO NO BROWN PEOPLE."

Have they mentioned featuring Fog Warriors in the next game?
Off topic... Thedas is a continent right? 

LOL, I'm getting tired of that argument too. But i also get tired of the "immigrants! Moors!" argument (sorry if that offends anyone, but honestly) because Thedas isn't definitely Europe in every way - it's just inspired by it. "It happened in Europe!" isn't a good enough reason to do anything in DA.

What IS a good reason to include darker skin tones is that the lore insists that it gets hotter the farther north you go. And our Rivaini characters have shown that that means darker skin. So we could just follow that to its logical conclusion, right?

I don't think anyone has mentioned Fog Warriors for DAIII. I'll be surprised if they're in there at all, but I just though this would be an interesting idea to share. Maybe for DAIV or a comic or novel?

[brushyourteeth]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

... and the devs did say the engine renders dark skin poorly in DA:O (they weren't kidding - blotchy and sad!) but word has it we'll have a new engine soon, so here's hoping! If it can't even make decent dark skin, I can't imagine how hard it was to work with on more complex creature colorations. 

Did they really say that? Do you believe them?

Yes and yes. Because I experienced it first hand in the character creator.

That there was nothing they could do to fix it isn't something I necessarily believe, but I can understand that it wasn't the first thing on their minds at the time since it only affected your PC. Whether that's a good enough reason or not is for the individual to decide, I think.

But again, the point of this topic isn't "Bioware are racists!"
it's
"If we travel north, diversity is appropriate" and also "African tribal warriors make the warrior inside my heart sit up and pay closer attention"

[EpicBoot2daFace]

brushyourteeth wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

... and the devs did say the engine renders dark skin poorly in DA:O (they weren't kidding - blotchy and sad!) but word has it we'll have a new engine soon, so here's hoping! If it can't even make decent dark skin, I can't imagine how hard it was to work with on more complex creature colorations. 

Did they really say that? Do you believe them?

Yes and yes. Because I experienced it first hand in the character creator.

That there was nothing they could do to fix it isn't something I necessarily believe, but I can understand that it wasn't the first thing on their minds at the time since it only affected your PC. Whether that's a good enough reason or not is for the individual to decide, I think.

But again, the point of this topic isn't "Bioware are racists!"
it's
"If we travel north, diversity is appropriate" and also "African tribal warriors make the warrior inside my heart sit up and pay closer attention"

Yes, neither do I. Let's hope it's on their list of 'things to fix' for DAIII.

[Wrathion]

brushyourteeth wrote...
LOL, I'm getting tired of that argument too. But i also get tired of the "immigrants! Moors!" argument (sorry if that offends anyone, but honestly) because Thedas isn't definitely Europe in every way - it's just inspired by it. "It happened in Europe!" isn't a good enough reason to do anything in DA.

What IS a good reason to include darker skin tones is that the lore insists that it gets hotter the farther north you go. And our Rivaini characters have shown that that means darker skin. So we could just follow that to its logical conclusion, right?

I don't think anyone has mentioned Fog Warriors for DAIII. I'll be surprised if they're in there at all, but I just though this would be an interesting idea to share. Maybe for DAIV or a comic or novel?

The immigrants argument IS a good one actually. So we know countries exist where people do not look like Fereldans. It's not unlikely that these same people might have moved to any other countries and stayed had  offspring and the rest. Unless it's canon that people in Thedas don't emigrate or just travel (even merchants and pirates and...Orlesian Gray Wardens) ever. That would be weird. 
God 4...such a long ways a way. If we'll be going to Tevinter (please jesus) then they couldn't just...not add Seheron right...

Modifié par Alexandrine Delassixe, 25 août 2012 - 05:36 .

[brushyourteeth]

Alexandrine Delassixe wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...
LOL, I'm getting tired of that argument too. But i also get tired of the "immigrants! Moors!" argument (sorry if that offends anyone, but honestly) because Thedas isn't definitely Europe in every way - it's just inspired by it. "It happened in Europe!" isn't a good enough reason to do anything in DA.

What IS a good reason to include darker skin tones is that the lore insists that it gets hotter the farther north you go. And our Rivaini characters have shown that that means darker skin. So we could just follow that to its logical conclusion, right?

I don't think anyone has mentioned Fog Warriors for DAIII. I'll be surprised if they're in there at all, but I just though this would be an interesting idea to share. Maybe for DAIV or a comic or novel?

The immigrants argument IS a good one actually. So we know countries exist where people do not look like Fereldans. It's not unlikely that these same people might have moved to any other countries and stayed had  offspring and the rest. Unless it's canon that people in Thedas don't emigrate or just travel (even merchants and pirates and...Orlesian Gray Wardens) ever. That would be weird. 
God 4...such a long ways a way. If we'll be going to Tevinter (please jesus) then they couldn't just...not add Seheron right...

LOL, well... two out of two places we've visited have both kind of sucked and not really been the kind of place anyone would intentionally move to. I mean, Ferelden's beautiful (or was before the Blight) but it's kinda muddy and cold and the economy isn't great and they seem to be decades behind in technology, architecture, and fashion. Kirkwall is scary, Templar-controlled, and kind of still influenced in a bad way by old Tevinter magic. So both of those excuses may not work for anyone else, but they work ok for me. We did at least have Hubert and Lisette, so someone was thinking of it.

The map that Mike Laidlaw showed at Pax East for DAIII showed us going to the very southern tip of the Tevinter Imperium, so hopefully we'll have that, but probably no Seheron this time.

[Wrathion]

brushyourteeth wrote...


LOL, well... two out of two places we've visited have both kind of sucked and not really been the kind of place anyone would intentionally move to. I mean, Ferelden's beautiful (or was before the Blight) but it's kinda muddy and cold and the economy isn't great and they seem to be decades behind in technology, architecture, and fashion. Kirkwall is scary, Templar-controlled, and kind of still influenced in a bad way by old Tevinter magic. So both of those excuses may not work for anyone else, but they work ok for me. We did at least have Hubert and Lisette, so someone was thinking of it.

The map that Mike Laidlaw showed at Pax East for DAIII showed us going to the very southern tip of the Tevinter Imperium, so hopefully we'll have that, but probably no Seheron this time.

Who is Lisette? I looked her up but I'm getting Skyrim hits 
Alain, Ella, and Maecon count. Especially Ella if you let her escape from the Circle she says she leaves Kirkwall (but doesn't specify where) she could have gone to...Orlais. 
Same could be said about America. It's really muddy and cold. But people love it (for some reason)

I always thought Tevinter was an island. They are smack dab in the middle of everything. I would not have gone for Seheron...
Fereldan kind...of looks like a fetus...

I wonder if Fenris was a Native of Seheron...or if he just happened to live there. All these unanswerable questions.

Modifié par Alexandrine Delassixe, 25 août 2012 - 05:55 .

[brushyourteeth]

Alexandrine Delassixe wrote...

Who is Lisette? I looked her up but I'm getting Skyrim hits 

She's the pretty merchant from Orlais in the Denerim market in DA:O. She looks quite Asian to me.

Same could be said about America. It's really muddy and cold. But people love it (for some reason)

LOL! It's not muddy and cold where I live! Besides, we have a handful of states that are almost completely desert, and the southern states often don't get cold at all even in the winter.

I always thought Tevinter was an island. They are smack dab in the middle of everything. I would not have gone for Seheron...

http://t1.gstatic.co...tBOVWL5L5WveaE  Seheron is the big island north of the T.I.

Fereldan kind...of looks like a fetus...

LOL!!!! Cannot unsee! 

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 25 août 2012 - 06:18 .

[deuce985]

I think the roads in Thedas are actually poorly constructed all over. So, heavy immigration is unlikely because travel is hard all over Thedas. So, if they did make long trips to other countries it more than likely means they'd settle down? I seem to remember David mentioning this. I could be wrong though...

[deuce985]

Oh my, what is this strange code you just quoted? Is this some kind of message I should know about?

Modifié par deuce985, 25 août 2012 - 06:03 .

[brushyourteeth]

deuce985 wrote...

Oh my, what is this strange code you just quoted? Is this some kind of message I should know about?

What?

[Wrathion]

brushyourteeth wrote...

LOL! It's not muddy and cold where I live! Besides, we have a handful of states that are almost completely desert, and the southern states often don't get cold at all even in the winter.

I live in D.C there's old buildings, dirt, and a brown water. Fereldan At Home!

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSvYrKYeRv6WjnB6iFEyvol2gq6MUXysos-nttBOVWL5L5WveaE 

Hmm the Free Marches is a country? Or they're just not naming whatevers in the area. Kirkwall is Free Marches right?

LOL!!!! Cannot unsee! 

You're welcome 

Wow, they're right.



Message from satan?

Modifié par Alexandrine Delassixe, 25 août 2012 - 06:13 .

[brushyourteeth]

I think the Free Marches are kind of like the U.S. or (probably more like) Canada where there are individual "city-states" with their own government, but they're technically all bound together in some way.

Kirkwall is in the south-east part of the Free Marches, across the Waking Sea from Ferelden.

[deuce985]

brushyourteeth wrote...

deuce985 wrote...

Oh my, what is this strange code you just quoted? Is this some kind of message I should know about?

What?

I just see a massive wall of text in the post with the map you just posted lol.

It looks like some kind of coded sequence or something.