My friend had an ending that Leliana made a song in honor of you that became popular "across of the land", and then one day the Maker visited Leliana or Leliana saw the Maker. Im not really sure because my friend was just telling me the ending. And then one day Leliana just disappeared!
So is Leliana the next Andraste? Because, if memory serves, Andraste became the bride of the Maker by singing songs as well....
Leliana the next Andraste?
Débuté par
Elanareon
, déc. 23 2009 04:33
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#2
Posté 23 décembre 2009 - 04:38
SarEnyaDor
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Alot of people interpret that as Lelianna killed her self, not that the Maker is now a bigomist. 
#3
Posté 23 décembre 2009 - 04:42
antrachite
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Perhaps its merely one of the many staging posts for a sequel? Y'know, like what they like to do in movies (think Tony Stark appearing at the closing minutes of the Edward Norton Hulk movie)...just a thought 
#4
Posté 23 décembre 2009 - 04:42
Squiggles1334
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I really really really really do not get the suicide interpretation. What actually makes people think this? I've experimented with breaking up with her before and she's never gone unhinged on me for it. She's never struck me as being dangerously codependent and needy-clingy like that.
#5
Posté 23 décembre 2009 - 04:42
TheMadCat
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Yeah that was one of the more vague epilogues that can go in about a hundred different directions. I thought the Guardian explained her first "vision" rather well and showed it for what it was. The epilogue does seem to point to her simply being overcome with grief and killing herself or walking into a battle to die, but again it's so vague it's hard to pin anything for certain.
People look at it that way simply because it is the most "satisfying" ending to the story and going off of what little is given an obvious scenario. I agree with you though, I think people wrap around the suicide conclusion a little to much. She did have a scenario even more tragic then this once before in her life with the complete betrayal of her "lover" and handled it fairly well, why people assume this one would break her I'm not sure. As I said, we like conclusions and people tend to look at the most simple and more obvious routes.
I really really really really do not get the suicide interpretation.
What actually makes people think this? I've experimented with breaking
up with her before and she's never gone unhinged on me for it. She's
never struck me as being dangerously codependent and needy-clingy like
that.
People look at it that way simply because it is the most "satisfying" ending to the story and going off of what little is given an obvious scenario. I agree with you though, I think people wrap around the suicide conclusion a little to much. She did have a scenario even more tragic then this once before in her life with the complete betrayal of her "lover" and handled it fairly well, why people assume this one would break her I'm not sure. As I said, we like conclusions and people tend to look at the most simple and more obvious routes.
Modifié par TheMadCat, 23 décembre 2009 - 04:48 .
#6
Posté 23 décembre 2009 - 04:45
Original182
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Because we live in a practical world where magic of the magnitude of Ferelden don't exist, we automatically assume suicide.
But now that I think about it, it could be something miraculous!
But now that I think about it, it could be something miraculous!
#7
Posté 23 décembre 2009 - 04:45
SarEnyaDor
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Because the phrase "return to the Maker" is used alot throughout the game as what happens when you die, it stands to reason that some might see her returning to the Maker as her killing herself.
Also, how can you see that eyelashes scene and NOT think she's unhinged and clingy???
Also, how can you see that eyelashes scene and NOT think she's unhinged and clingy???
#8
Posté 23 décembre 2009 - 04:47
enderandrew
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Leilana very much reminds of Joan or Arc, specifically Joan of Arc from the movie The Messenger. Andraste, like Joan of Arc, was burned alive.
#9
Posté 23 décembre 2009 - 04:47
Squiggles1334
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She's not very good at pillow talk for a bard?
#10
Posté 23 décembre 2009 - 04:48
Squiggles1334
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That movie sucked.enderandrew wrote...
Leilana very much reminds of Joan or Arc, specifically Joan of Arc from the movie The Messenger. Andraste, like Joan of Arc, was burned alive.
#11
Posté 23 décembre 2009 - 04:50
TheMadCat
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it stands to reason that some might see her returning to the Maker as her killing herself.
None of her epilogues state "returning to the maker" though. The most tragic one states she had another vision and that "she will see her love again soon" or something along those lines.
#12
Posté 23 décembre 2009 - 04:53
SarEnyaDor
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enderandrew wrote...
Leilana very much reminds of Joan or Arc, specifically Joan of Arc from the movie The Messenger. Andraste, like Joan of Arc, was burned alive.
Your analogy makes no sense, why would Andraste being burned alive, and Joan of Arc being burned alive make you think that Lelianna is like Joan or Arc, and therefore like Andraste, when Lelianna was NOT burned at the stake?
Modifié par SarEnyaDor, 23 décembre 2009 - 04:53 .
#13
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Posté 23 décembre 2009 - 04:59
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SarEnyaDor wrote...
enderandrew wrote...
Leilana very much reminds of Joan or Arc, specifically Joan of Arc from the movie The Messenger. Andraste, like Joan of Arc, was burned alive.
Your analogy makes no sense, why would Andraste being burned alive, and Joan of Arc being burned alive make you think that Lelianna is like Joan or Arc, and therefore like Andraste, when Lelianna was NOT burned at the stake?
The Maker does miracles, don't you get that, you silly heretic!?
#14
Posté 23 décembre 2009 - 04:59
SarEnyaDor
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TheMadCat wrote...
it stands to reason that some might see her returning to the Maker as her killing herself.
None of her epilogues state "returning to the maker" though. The most tragic one states she had another vision and that "she will see her love again soon" or something along those lines.
I don't see that ending as much as the others, so I'll take your word for it that it doesn't say "return to the maker", but says "she will see her love soon" but her love is dead, and the only way you get to see dead people is through really freaky-deaky dark magic or you join them in the after-life.
#15
Posté 23 décembre 2009 - 04:59
Elanareon
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Leliana killder herself? Well, some people think she is crazy. So, why not? lol
Oh, wait! Maybe Leliana is the reincarntaion of Andraste! You see, she sings > Maker shows up > Leliana told someone she will see her "love" again > Poof, she's gone! =D
Oh, wait! Maybe Leliana is the reincarntaion of Andraste! You see, she sings > Maker shows up > Leliana told someone she will see her "love" again > Poof, she's gone! =D
#16
Posté 23 décembre 2009 - 05:00
Squiggles1334
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She really struck me as one of the more emotionally stable characters in the game. Even her responses to you breaking off the relationship seemed pretty grounded, giving it the "Okay, I don't like that you're choosing this route, but it's your choice to make and I will respect it" or "If that's how it's going to be, then fine, I won't go where I'm clearly unwanted" type responses, depending on how much of a jerk you are when you break up. And that bit about how she handled Marjolaine was also pretty well grounded emotionally, considering that it's implied they were lovers before she was betrayed. It just seems at every turn where she's encounted rejection and loss, she's handled it pretty well, all things considered. She just doesn't strike me as the profile of a person willing to go the route of suicide, especially as a person who seems to put into practice the belief in life having greater purpose.TheMadCat wrote...
People look at it that way simply because it is the most "satisfying" ending to the story and going off of what little is given an obvious scenario. I agree with you though, I think people wrap around the suicide conclusion a little to much. She did have a scenario even more tragic then this once before in her life with the complete betrayal of her "lover" and handled it fairly well, why people assume this one would break her I'm not sure. As I said, we like conclusions and people tend to look at the most simple and more obvious routes.
Baffling conclusions.
#17
Posté 23 décembre 2009 - 05:01
Elanareon
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antrachite wrote...
Perhaps its merely one of the many staging posts for a sequel? Y'know, like what they like to do in movies (think Tony Stark appearing at the closing minutes of the Edward Norton Hulk movie)...just a thought
HAHAHA, you know what? I heard that Captain America's shield can be seen in Ironman the movie and then the super soldier syrum is a correlation to Captain America being a super soldier. Well, according to my friend that is.
#18
Posté 23 décembre 2009 - 05:04
enderandrew
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Leilana is a religiously devout girl who was skilled in combat and hears messages from The Maker.
Joan of Arc was a religiously devout girl who was skilled in combat and hears messages from God.
Leilana had a French accent. Joan of Arc was French.
Joan of Arc was burned alive and turned into a martyr. Leilana was not burned alive per se, but she worships someone who was burned alive and turned into a martyr.
Are you really saying there is no comparison to Joan of Arc?
Joan of Arc was a religiously devout girl who was skilled in combat and hears messages from God.
Leilana had a French accent. Joan of Arc was French.
Joan of Arc was burned alive and turned into a martyr. Leilana was not burned alive per se, but she worships someone who was burned alive and turned into a martyr.
Are you really saying there is no comparison to Joan of Arc?
#19
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Posté 23 décembre 2009 - 05:05
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enderandrew wrote...
Leilana is a religiously devout girl who was skilled in combat and hears messages from The Maker.
Joan of Arc was a religiously devout girl who was skilled in combat and hears messages from God.
Leilana had a French accent. Joan of Arc was French.
Joan of Arc was burned alive and turned into a martyr. Leilana was not burned alive per se, but she worships someone who was burned alive and turned into a martyr.
Are you really saying there is no comparison to Joan of Arc?
This ends the argument completely.
#20
Posté 23 décembre 2009 - 05:05
SarEnyaDor
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I don't think Lelianna killing herself is the only way to interpret that slide, but I can totally see how you can take it that way.
But Lelianna being stable? Really? She sees "visions" that the only proof of miracles, the Guardian, calls her one and she ARGUES with him. That's as close to the Maker as anyone in Thedas has seen in thosands of years and she tells him that her little vision trumps his years of service guarding the ashes of the one divine being that anyone can prove existed - tell me that is not a wee-bit delusional.
But Lelianna being stable? Really? She sees "visions" that the only proof of miracles, the Guardian, calls her one and she ARGUES with him. That's as close to the Maker as anyone in Thedas has seen in thosands of years and she tells him that her little vision trumps his years of service guarding the ashes of the one divine being that anyone can prove existed - tell me that is not a wee-bit delusional.
#21
Posté 23 décembre 2009 - 05:08
Squiggles1334
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Andraste sounds more like Joan of Arc than Leliana, considering it was Andraste who led the first Exalted March and then was burned at the stake and revered posthumously as a chosen of the Maker...
#22
Posté 23 décembre 2009 - 05:08
Original182
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No actually I never even thought of Andraste as Joan De Arc. To me Leliana is Leliana, Andraste was Andraste.
#23
Posté 23 décembre 2009 - 05:09
SarEnyaDor
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Well, when Lelianna leads an army against an empire, and then is accused of heresey by the people she lead and is burned at the stake, I'll concur a little more.
Right now Lelianna is just a bard who killed men after she slept with them, really likes her idealized view of what the Chantry is instead of what the Chantry *actually* is who happens to have a French/Orleasion accent.
I do give you that ANDRASTE is alot like Joan or Arc, but you have nothing aside from the accent to connect Lelianna to Joan of Arc, and nothing more than singing to connect her to Andraste.
Right now Lelianna is just a bard who killed men after she slept with them, really likes her idealized view of what the Chantry is instead of what the Chantry *actually* is who happens to have a French/Orleasion accent.
I do give you that ANDRASTE is alot like Joan or Arc, but you have nothing aside from the accent to connect Lelianna to Joan of Arc, and nothing more than singing to connect her to Andraste.
Modifié par SarEnyaDor, 23 décembre 2009 - 05:11 .
#24
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Posté 23 décembre 2009 - 05:11
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Squiggles1334 wrote...
Andraste sounds more like Joan of Arc than Leliana, considering it was Andraste who led the first Exalted March and then was burned at the stake and revered posthumously as a chosen of the Maker...
We're talking about the NEXT Andraste aka Joan of Arc(if you will).
SarEnyaDor wrote...
I don't think Lelianna killing herself is the only way to interpret that slide, but I can totally see how you can take it that way.
But Lelianna being stable? Really? She sees "visions" that the only proof of miracles, the Guardian, calls her one and she ARGUES with him. That's as close to the Maker as anyone in Thedas has seen in thosands of years and she tells him that her little vision trumps his years of service guarding the ashes of the one divine being that anyone can prove existed - tell me that is not a wee-bit delusional.
So what does this make Leliana? Jesus or Joan of Arc?
#25
Posté 23 décembre 2009 - 05:14
Squiggles1334
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Ehh, she doesn't completely see eye to eye with a lot of the Chantry either. She's commented on how self-righteous they can be sometimes and some of her personal theology is actually quite at odds with typical Chantry dogma. There's a conversation she has at one point regarding the Old Gods which I thought was rather interesting and rather liberal and/or pluralistic for someone who espouses a monotheistic faith.
