108 réponses à ce sujet

[SarEnyaDor]

LOL, Okay.



Like I always answer Alistair - I believe that SHE believes her "vision."



I think she had a bad dream, personally, and comforted herself, much like Alistair did, with the rose, attaching more meaning to it than there was because of their need to have something better to look forward to.



Maybe that's because I am all the time killing plants on accident by taking care of them properly, and the ones that I have left to rot end up flourishing just to spite me, though........

[robertthebard]

I am not an overly religious person myself, so I find most of them hokey, even in video games, but yeah, she believed in it, and the dead rose bush spawning a single rose the morning after that vision would have been powerful to her. Hell, it comes across powerful to me.

[TheMadCat]

Man, I need to do a couple more run throughs with this game. What the hell is this rose thing with Alistair?

[SarEnyaDor]

If you are a female and are nice to him, his romance starts, and one of the first cut scenes he has with you that let's you know he wants to be on the romance track is to give you a rose and a little speech about how he saw it, and thought of you yada yada yada bright spot in the darkness (BTW it is actually very sweet, but I don't have total recall of it at the moment).



Lelianna also mentions what is probably the exact same rose in connection with her vision - when she awoke she saw this one perfect flower on a completely dead bush, made her realize the Maker was still with us, etc.



Typically, Alistair will do the rose, do the kiss, and then ask you to bed, unless zoom up the approval rating too fast, and then it can be triggered out of order, which is sort of funny after you sleep with him and he says he loves you to go back to being all shy about a flower.

[Gold Dragon]

robertthebard wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Alright, ive put up with a lot of **** from this "Maker" and end up dying to kill the damn darkspawn he created because he was having a bad day, but now he steals my bloody girlfreind! The Maker is sooooo dead

Sign me up, sergeant.

Me, too.

Anyways...  This ending tells me that she does indeed die.  Not by suicide, murder, or even Darkspawn.

She dies of a broken heart.

[TheMadCat]

God no, having some horrible flashbacks to Return of the Sith. I don't mind if she's dead, at least make it so she died in the Deep Roads slaughtering Darkspawn until she fell or at worse decided to walk out into the wilds and kill herself. None of that lost the will to live crap, nothing tragic or romantic about that.

[Gold Dragon]

Cliche or not, that's how I read it.

[TheMadCat]

Oh that's cool, as I said that little block of words can be interpreted about a thousand different ways. I'm just saying if an official explanation ever comes about that it does not involve that. Not so much that it's cliche, but because it's just a horrible way to kill off what I thought was a great character.

[Forwen]

Nah because she can die in Lothering.



The Maker: Oh.

[Avaraen]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

TheMadCat wrote...

it stands to reason that some might see her returning to the Maker as her killing herself.

None of her epilogues state "returning to the maker" though. The most tragic one states she had another vision and that "she will see her love again soon" or something along those lines.

I don't see that ending as much as the others, so I'll take your word for it that it doesn't say "return to the maker", but says "she will see her love soon" but her love is dead, and the only way you get to see dead people is through really freaky-deaky dark magic or you join them in the after-life.

This is the exact wording of the epilogue if the player sacrifices him/herself and Leliana is in love and not hardened:

"Leliana remained in the royal court for a time, mourning. She poured her heart into a ballad that would eventually become known throughout Thedas. But after one performance, Leliana quietly vanished. Some say that the Maker came to her in a vision again that night. Smiling, tears in her eyes, she told a maid that she would see her love again at last."

The "at last" certainly implies an immediacy to seeing her love, but it's left to the interpretation of the player how that might come about. Does she throw herself into the river? Go to Orzammar and throw herself at darkspawn in the way of the Grey Wardens? Find some other means of suicide-by-combat? Or did the Maker remove her from the physical world to bring her and her love together again in the afterlife? I think it's left deliberately vague, so depending on your character, you can interpret the ending however you wish.

[SarEnyaDor]

Forwen wrote...

Nah because she can die in Lothering.

The Maker: Oh.

LMAO!! But you know, he has a habit of making women fall for him, give up their old lives, and then letting them die painfully..........

[Tirigon]

Lelianna is simply crazy. But then, Andraste was nothing but a madwoman either. So, if Lel finds something to exalted-march against, why should she not be the next Andraste? And there surely are enough things to march against in Ferelden.

Anyways, if the temples feature statues of her I can at least tell that I f*cked a prophet (my PC speaking here, of course)

[robertthebard]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

Forwen wrote...

Nah because she can die in Lothering.

The Maker: Oh.

LMAO!! But you know, he has a habit of making women fall for him, give up their old lives, and then letting them die painfully..........

Which is why he must die.

[Herr Uhl]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

Forwen wrote...

Nah because she can die in Lothering.

The Maker: Oh.

LMAO!! But you know, he has a habit of making women fall for him, give up their old lives, and then letting them die painfully..........

How are men supposed to compete with a deity? I feel Maferaths (sp?) frustration.

[SarEnyaDor]

Well, one assumes that the Maker's love is much less physical than Maf-er-what's-it's was, and as Zeveran so aptly pointed out, the body has needs that the Maker just can't fulfill.....

Modifié par SarEnyaDor, 23 décembre 2009 - 11:19 .

[TheMadCat]

Bah, bet she never talk about the Maker's eyelashes like she does mine.

[Herr Uhl]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

Well, one assumes that the Maker's love is much less physical than Maf-er-what's-it's was, and as Zeveran so aptly pointed out, the body has needs that the Maker just can't fulfill.....

So you just expect men to become a sex-toy. You women and your constant objectification of males.

Good day!

[SarEnyaDor]

TheMadCat wrote...

Bah, bet she never talk about the Maker's eyelashes like she does mine.

 She talked about your eyelashes, too??

And here I thought I was special, but it was just a cheap crazy line that she uses on all the girls and guys....

*is crushed*

[trueKieran]

Avaraen wrote...

"Leliana remained in the royal court for a time, mourning. She poured her heart into a ballad that would eventually become known throughout Thedas. But after one performance, Leliana quietly vanished. Some say that the Maker came to her in a vision again that night. Smiling, tears in her eyes, she told a maid that she would see her love again at last."

The "at last" certainly implies an immediacy to seeing her love, but it's left to the interpretation of the player how that might come about. Does she throw herself into the river? Go to Orzammar and throw herself at darkspawn in the way of the Grey Wardens? Find some other means of suicide-by-combat? Or did the Maker remove her from the physical world to bring her and her love together again in the afterlife? I think it's left deliberately vague, so depending on your character, you can interpret the ending however you wish.

I remember reading in one the epilogs something like "it wasn't the last thing Ferelden heard of this warden" or "not the last time he played a role in the world of Ferelden" or anything of the like. Maybe we get to play as our old warden in the sequel and the maker just told her the warden would be brought back to life soon.

Modifié par trueKieran, 23 décembre 2009 - 11:24 .

[SarEnyaDor]

That ending happens if you are alive, not if you sacrificed yourself - kind of hard to hear from dead people again, unless you're Haley Joel Osmet.........

[trueKieran]

Of course it's if you are alive. What I meant was it could hint for a possibility to play again with this char, which would be impossible if (s)he died and stays dead.

Modifié par trueKieran, 23 décembre 2009 - 11:29 .

[TheMadCat]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

TheMadCat wrote...

Bah, bet she never talk about the Maker's eyelashes like she does mine.

 She talked about your eyelashes, too??

And here I thought I was special, but it was just a cheap crazy line that she uses on all the girls and guys....

*is crushed*

Well now, she has been known to get around...and around...and around...and well just kind of keep going around.

[Herr Uhl]

TheMadCat wrote...
Well now, she has been known to get around...and around...and around...and well just kind of keep going around.

She liked her old job even more than she let on.

[SarEnyaDor]

trueKieran wrote...

Of course it's if you are alive. What I meant was it could hint for a possibility to play again with this char, which would be impossible if (s)he died and stays dead.

I personally think that if they makea DAO2 they will either take a similar approach to it as ME2 and import your decisions etc or set it far enough in the future that no one cares about the details of who ruled Ferelden and did what. I'd be happy with either of those kind of continuations.

[FlintlockJazz]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

I don't think Lelianna killing herself is the only way to interpret that slide, but I can totally see how you can take it that way.

But Lelianna being stable? Really? She sees "visions" that the only proof of miracles, the Guardian, calls her one and she ARGUES with him. That's as close to the Maker as anyone in Thedas has seen in thosands of years and she tells him that her little vision trumps his years of service guarding the ashes of the one divine being that anyone can prove existed - tell me that is not a wee-bit delusional.

Actually, I'm not sure the Guardian actually states that her visions are false.  He doesn't confont you about lies, but about how you feel about things, and your worst fears, such as whether you feel guilty or not, and I think the thing with Leliana in this part is that he is confronting her with what she fears herself, that deep down she's worried that she's just deluding herself.  Of course, she could be, but that's not the point.  She argues with him because she does believe that it is the maker, just like you can argue with him over whether you feel guilty over your mother/Jowan/Bob the Fruit Fly.