108 réponses à ce sujet

[Avaraen]

trueKieran wrote...

A Golden Dragon wrote...

vaesapiens wrote...

Isn't there a plot statement that "the warden and the archedemon souls are destroyed" ? So technically she could not see us even if she comitted suicide, because our soul was annihilated, thus making me think that a) she is crazy miracle-> DA2, even tho the pc died.

So Riordan said.  I preffer to think of it as:  The collision of the Two Souls cause the Death of the Host (Warden), and since the Archdemon is bound now to the Body of the Warden, it too must die a true death, due to the Altered Taint within the Warden it also cannot find another host.

Does anyone have a savegame shortly before the conversation for exact wording? Because as far as I remember in the geman version at least, he only says that it also causes the death of the warden, not the destruction of his souls.

From the toolset dialogue, at Redcliffe Castle, when Riordan explains things to the remaining two Ferelden Grey Wardens:

Riordan: "A darkspawn is an empty, soulless vessel, but a Grey Warden is not. The essence of the archdemon is destroyed... and so is the Grey Warden."

That is the only reference to a soul anywhere in Riordan's dialogue. How would anyone know for sure the souls have been destroyed, anyway? There are depths to the Fade we really know nothing about, after all.

[Maconbar]

TheMadCat wrote...

Bah, bet she never talk about the Maker's eyelashes like she does mine.

Dang she said the same thing to me :<

[trueKieran]

Avaraen wrote...

Riordan: "A darkspawn is an empty, soulless vessel, but a Grey Warden is not. The essence of the archdemon is destroyed... and so is the Grey Warden."

That is the only reference to a soul anywhere in Riordan's dialogue. How would anyone know for sure the souls have been destroyed, anyway? There are depths to the Fade we really know nothing about, after all.

I'm not a native english speaker so correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't it have to be "and so is the Grey Warden's" if he was referring to the very essence instead of just his life?

Modifié par trueKieran, 24 décembre 2009 - 04:28 .

[Avaraen]

trueKieran wrote...

Avaraen wrote...

Riordan: "A darkspawn is an empty, soulless vessel, but a Grey Warden is not. The essence of the archdemon is destroyed... and so is the Grey Warden."

That is the only reference to a soul anywhere in Riordan's dialogue. How would anyone know for sure the souls have been destroyed, anyway? There are depths to the Fade we really know nothing about, after all.

I'm not a native english speaker so correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't it have to be "and so is the Grey Warden's" if he was referring to the very essence instead of just his life?

In my opinion (native English speaker), yes, it would need to have the possessive form (Grey Warden's) if it referred to the Warden's essence. The way Riordan's dialogue reads to me, he is saying the Grey Warden - the physical being - is destroyed.

[Lotion Soronarr]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Well the guardian pretty much destroyed her beliefs.
 

He did? When?

[kormesios]

Avaraen wrote...

trueKieran wrote...

Avaraen wrote...

Riordan: "A darkspawn is an empty, soulless vessel, but a Grey Warden is not. The essence of the archdemon is destroyed... and so is the Grey Warden."

That is the only reference to a soul anywhere in Riordan's dialogue. How would anyone know for sure the souls have been destroyed, anyway? There are depths to the Fade we really know nothing about, after all.

I'm not a native english speaker so correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't it have to be "and so is the Grey Warden's" if he was referring to the very essence instead of just his life?

In my opinion (native English speaker), yes, it would need to have the possessive form (Grey Warden's) if it referred to the Warden's essence. The way Riordan's dialogue reads to me, he is saying the Grey Warden - the physical being - is destroyed.

It doesn't "need" to be a possessive.  If you are talking about the essence of something, then pretty much by definition you can substitute the thing itself into that sentence.  If anything, I'd say that strictly speaking that you couldn't destroy something without destroying it's essence.

But in context, I agree he was just trying to say the Grey Warden dies.  It's a phrase in a conversation with a warrior, not a metaphysical treatise written by a philosopher.

[TheMadCat]

I don't get it, if that's the comment people are referring to when talking about the Warden's spirit being destroyed I don't see how one can draw that conclusion since it makes no mention of the Warden's spirit, rather the Warden is simply destroyed.

He did? When?

If you bring Leliana to the tower the Guardian will basically challenge her claim that her dream was from the Maker, asking her if she compares herself to Andraste and why she assumes it''s the Maker since he turned his gaze away from this world. Then he basically challenges her by saying she said it simply for attention, though even after that I think she still believes it was a dream from the Maker so not sure if he destroyed her belief or not.

[robertthebard]

TheMadCat wrote...

I don't get it, if that's the comment people are referring to when talking about the Warden's spirit being destroyed I don't see how one can draw that conclusion since it makes no mention of the Warden's spirit, rather the Warden is simply destroyed.

He did? When?

If you bring Leliana to the tower the Guardian will basically challenge her claim that her dream was from the Maker, asking her if she compares herself to Andraste and why she assumes it''s the Maker since he turned his gaze away from this world. Then he basically challenges her by saying she said it simply for attention, though even after that I think she still believes it was a dream from the Maker so not sure if he destroyed her belief or not.

I'm going to hate myself for this, just wait...

He really didn't affect Leliana's beliefs.  She hold onto them.  Besides, if we take the Guardian in context, how would he even begin to know that the Maker didn't send her that vision, unless he's like meeting the Maker for tea after you finish the Gauntlet?  Simply put, since according to the Guardian, the Maker has turned his gaze away, is he better even than Andraste so that the Maker talks to him to let him know, "Hey, that red head chick is crazy, I didn't say that"?

[ReubenLiew]

Lots of priests and/or crazy people in America tell us that they hear God.

I don't think that makes them Jesus.