770 réponses à ce sujet

[bobsmyuncle]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Namirsolo wrote...
Do you guys mean that  Zevran is not a bad guy because he's sweet to the warden? I'm just trying to understand how anyone thinks he is not bad boy enough.

They want someone who could give them a slap. Like Bishop I think. Zevran isn't violent, he is an artist.

I agree, it's probably because he's not dangerous (at least, not to the PC).

[Namirsolo]

bobsmyuncle wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Namirsolo wrote...
Do you guys mean that  Zevran is not a bad guy because he's sweet to the warden? I'm just trying to understand how anyone thinks he is not bad boy enough.

They want someone who could give them a slap. Like Bishop I think. Zevran isn't violent, he is an artist.

I agree, it's probably because he's not dangerous (at least, not to the PC).

That kind of weirds me out. For me, he's exciting because he COULD be a threat at first, until he starts to fall in love with the pc. But, no one actually wants someone who could actually hurt them, do they?

[Kohaku]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Namirsolo wrote...
Do you guys mean that  Zevran is not a bad guy because he's sweet to the warden? I'm just trying to understand how anyone thinks he is not bad boy enough.

They want someone who could give them a slap. Like Bishop I think. Zevran isn't violent, he is an artist.

See... I liked Bishop. I've said it before. However, that sucker is insane. He's one of those men that I could see saying he isn't mad that you're breaking up with him.  Then coming to your house later... to kill you and set your house on fire. That's a whole brand of crazy I'm not going to deal with.

Zevran isn't a bad choice but he just doesn't do it for me personally.

[Cybercat999]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Namirsolo wrote...
Do you guys mean that  Zevran is not a bad guy because he's sweet to the warden? I'm just trying to understand how anyone thinks he is not bad boy enough.

They want someone who could give them a slap. Like Bishop I think. Zevran isn't violent, he is an artist.

Only if I can slap him back.

But yeah, Zev is too roguish for my taste. I want me some badass warrior without much manners for a change.
Sten-without-philosophy type.

[frostajulie]

Zev is my favorite because he is true from start to finish and when you got him you really got him. I always have to go with Zev on all my game now, problem is I can't seem to get leil's personal quest without leading her on and Alistair gets all these bonises when I lead him on but in the end I always pick Zev.

[bobsmyuncle]

Namirsolo wrote...

bobsmyuncle wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Namirsolo wrote...
Do you guys mean that  Zevran is not a bad guy because he's sweet to the warden? I'm just trying to understand how anyone thinks he is not bad boy enough.

They want someone who could give them a slap. Like Bishop I think. Zevran isn't violent, he is an artist.

I agree, it's probably because he's not dangerous (at least, not to the PC).

That kind of weirds me out. For me, he's exciting because he COULD be a threat at first, until he starts to fall in love with the pc. But, no one actually wants someone who could actually hurt them, do they?

You would be surprised. Nobody wants to date a dangerous guy in real life (well, nobody mentally healthy anyway), but it is incredibly popular in fiction.

Zevran, despite his love of filthy jokes and coming on to old ladies, is actually rather a gentleman. He is not sexually aggressive. Given that there are plenty of other ways in which he is not a very nice guy (really, the only immoral thing that causes him to go "Oh no you didn't!" that I can recall is if you excuse or tolerate slavery or anti-elf bigotry), I don't know what else the "he's not bad enough" complaints can be in regard to.

If it's purely a personality thing, that I can understand. I would have liked a sarcastic intellectual romantic option, myself (all the girls want Bishop to be romanceable, but what about Sand? ).

[Kohaku]

bobsmyuncle wrote...

You would be surprised. Nobody wants to date a dangerous guy in real life (well, nobody mentally healthy anyway), but it is incredibly popular in fiction.

Zevran, despite his love of filthy jokes and coming on to old ladies, is actually rather a gentleman. He is not sexually aggressive. Given that there are plenty of other ways in which he is not a very nice guy (really, the only immoral thing that causes him to go "Oh no you didn't!" that I can recall is if you excuse or tolerate slavery or anti-elf bigotry), I don't know what else the "he's not bad enough" complaints can be in regard to.

If it's purely a personality thing, that I can understand. I would have liked a sarcastic intellectual romantic option, myself (all the girls want Bishop to be romanceable, but what about Sand? ).

You got me there. Sand would have been perfect in my mind as well.

[Tora Panthera]

In my first playthrough I played as a elven mage, who was romancing Alistair, and I hadn't read any spoilers at the time, so I let Alistair be king... and then he broke up with me so I went back and do it over. But it's the fact that he just breaks up with one just because one MIGHT be unable to have children... That's just not something I'm okay with, and it really made me dislike him... I know now that you can harden him and be his mistress... but who wants that?



So, in my second playthrough I went with Zevran and was surprised to find that I prefer him, it's hard not to, he grows on you, while Alistair is basically the same the entire time, and he doesn't turn you down, no matter what...



Therefore, Zevran gets my vote!

[bobsmyuncle]

Malira wrote...

In my first playthrough I played as a elven mage, who was romancing Alistair, and I hadn't read any spoilers at the time, so I let Alistair be king... and then he broke up with me so I went back and do it over. But it's the fact that he just breaks up with one just because one MIGHT be unable to have children... That's just not something I'm okay with, and it really made me dislike him... I know now that you can harden him and be his mistress... but who wants that?

So, in my second playthrough I went with Zevran and was surprised to find that I prefer him, it's hard not to, he grows on you, while Alistair is basically the same the entire time, and he doesn't turn you down, no matter what...

Therefore, Zevran gets my vote!

In fairness, even if your elven mage were fertile, she wouldn't be permitted to be Queen anyway. Remember how often you hear the verse about magic not ruling over man? What was probably meant was that mind control is a no-no, but it is interpreted to mean that a mage may not hold any political office. If Alistair married a mage, just imagine the political and religious uproar - the bannorn would rebel, the Chantry would probably call a March, Orlais would probably love an excuse to "liberate" the country (get out of my head, Loghain!). Never mind that an elven queen would have been like a black first lady in the 50s. Alistair personally doesn't care, but he is all about duty and a king's duty is to stabilize his reign by having an heir and then not rocking the boat too much. Alistair as king does try to achieve social progress for oppressed Fereldans but it's progress by degrees, he's not going to risk everything you won at the Landsmeet by having an elven Queen no matter if he loved her or not.

And FYI, Alistair doesn't have to be King. He and my mage are happily running around Ferelden recruiting new Wardens together. Anora's not exactly progressive but she's not a bad ruler.

[Namirsolo]

So, in my second playthrough I went with Zevran and was surprised to find that I prefer him, it's hard not to, he grows on you, while Alistair is basically the same the entire time, and he doesn't turn you down, no matter what...

He turned my character down for sex. There's another minus for him. haha

[Antigone2283]

Lucienna wrote...

After having tried out all of those relationships I think I'll have to stick with Zev. Leliana was fun and exciting for a while, but eventually I found her just a little too sweet. The foursome with her + Zev in the Pearl was fun though (well apart from that you don't even get a scene for it) - but the conversation afterwards was awesome. Eventually I went for Zev because he's fun and easygoing and naughty (and looks much better in my tent than Alistair), plus I love his comments when you invite him - ARR.. Pirate Zevran! And I love his accent!

With my second character I'm in a relationship with Alistair right now (who I had dumped on my first character after his first night in favour of Leliana.. lol I'm so mean), so I kinda want to be truthful right now and just see where this goes. I'm a little bored already though, he's just so prude (though he joined me in the Pearl), guess I just have a thing for Zev.

And btw, about characters falling in love with you again after you dumped them/decided against them - I think Zev and Leliana do that actually, at least it happened on my first character. Leliana came back to me after I had broken up with her and finished her personal quest, Zev tried again to woo my character after I had decided for Leliana and against him. Alistair never tried again though - I guess he's just too shy and too prude...

I wouldn't describe Alistair as prude at all! It's only been, what, I think 5 months since he left the Chantry to join the Grey Wardens? It doesn't take much at all to build a relationship with him - so he'll only turn you down if you're pushing him into having casual sex before you've gotten to know each other. Even then, he isn't disgusted by your offer, or offended...just says he's not ready, which I think is pretty reasonable for ANY virgin, let alone one from a religious order. He's willing to kiss in front of most of the companions, even if he's a little shy about it. And he does seem to enjoy the bawdy teasing - he just doesn't dish it out like Zevran can.  I'd say it's more a matter of being inexperienced (which, for me, is waaaaaay hotter than an easy shag with someone who's already 'been there, done that'...but that's a personal preference ) And he's certainly not as KINKY as Zevran (although there's an inherent submissiveness to him that definitely has some kink potential :innocent:.) But that doesn't really equal "prudish!" 

Edit for formating...

Modifié par Antigone2283, 29 décembre 2009 - 01:46 .

[Antigone2283]

bobsmyuncle wrote...

Malira wrote...

In my first playthrough I played as a elven mage, who was romancing Alistair, and I hadn't read any spoilers at the time, so I let Alistair be king... and then he broke up with me so I went back and do it over. But it's the fact that he just breaks up with one just because one MIGHT be unable to have children... That's just not something I'm okay with, and it really made me dislike him... I know now that you can harden him and be his mistress... but who wants that?

So, in my second playthrough I went with Zevran and was surprised to find that I prefer him, it's hard not to, he grows on you, while Alistair is basically the same the entire time, and he doesn't turn you down, no matter what...

Therefore, Zevran gets my vote!

In fairness, even if your elven mage were fertile, she wouldn't be permitted to be Queen anyway. Remember how often you hear the verse about magic not ruling over man? What was probably meant was that mind control is a no-no, but it is interpreted to mean that a mage may not hold any political office. If Alistair married a mage, just imagine the political and religious uproar - the bannorn would rebel, the Chantry would probably call a March, Orlais would probably love an excuse to "liberate" the country (get out of my head, Loghain!). Never mind that an elven queen would have been like a black first lady in the 50s. Alistair personally doesn't care, but he is all about duty and a king's duty is to stabilize his reign by having an heir and then not rocking the boat too much. Alistair as king does try to achieve social progress for oppressed Fereldans but it's progress by degrees, he's not going to risk everything you won at the Landsmeet by having an elven Queen no matter if he loved her or not.

And FYI, Alistair doesn't have to be King. He and my mage are happily running around Ferelden recruiting new Wardens together. Anora's not exactly progressive but she's not a bad ruler.

Alistair and my mage are happily frolicking through Ferelden, as well.  Honestly, I didn't even feel like it was an OOC choice for me to make: there's really not a GOOD reason to make him King.  He doesn't want it, he's got no leadership experience and has avoided leadership any way possible (come on...my mage has spent her entire life in a TOWER - you really think she should be in charge? She hasn't seen a city since she was probably 5 years old, and TREES are probably new and interesting to her...) He's a Grey Warden, which makes him inappropriate for the position in soooooo many ways - and like you said, Anora isn't awesome, but she knows her business.

On the other hand, my Cousland will happily put him on the throne, because SHE knows how to lead, and Alistair can just sit there and look pretty ( ;

But I stray from topic...

[Namirsolo]

I wouldn't describe Alistair as prude at all! It's only been, what,
I think 5 months since he left the Chantry to join the Grey Wardens? It
doesn't take much at all to build a relationship with him - so he'll
only turn you down if you're pushing him into having casual sex before
you've gotten to know each other. Even then, he isn't disgusted by your
offer, or offended...just says he's not ready, which I think is pretty
reasonable for ANY virgin, let alone one from a religious order. He's
willing to kiss in front of most of the companions, even if he's a
little shy about it. And he does seem to enjoy the bawdy teasing - he
just doesn't dish it out like Zevran can.  I'd say it's more a matter
of being inexperienced (which, for me, is waaaaaay hotter than an easy
shag with someone who's already 'been there, done that'...but that's a
personal preference ../../../images/forum/emoticons/grin.png)
And he's certainly not as KINKY as Zevran (although there's an inherent
submissiveness to him that definitely has some kink potential ../../../images/forum/emoticons/angel.png.) But that doesn't really equal "prudish!" 

I would call him a prude because any time anyone mentions sex (except for your the pc if he's romancing them) he shies away from the subject or goes "ew gross". He does this when Morrigan mentions her mother having "company" to which I say "good for her". He does this when Wynne talks about mages still being able to have sex. And most annoyingly, he does it when Zevran offers pointers on how to please the PC better. In fact, in this case he literally puts his fingers in his ears and says "I'm not listening." That is the very definition of prude. In my experience, if a guy can't even talk about sex he's going to be pretty terrible at it. Also, I generally don't like anyone who can't discuss sex. But I guess that's just me.

If you ask Alistair into your tent again after the first time you ask him and he says no you start losing approval. Like, dude, I'm not pressuring you, I'm just checking to see if you're ready or not. Am I supposed to be psychic and just know?

I'd say being submissive can be hot (if you're into that) but I've never thought a guy being a virgin was sexy. I guess some girls are into the "corrupting", but I'd rather have someone who knows what they're doing.

[Namirsolo]

ejoslin wrote...

One other thought
-- maybe to some Zevran doesn't come off as a "bad boy" because he is
so smart and funny. He's not at all surly and really does roll with the
punches. But the crows use seduction to get their targets alone -- how
much colder can you be than to slit someone's throat just after having
sex with them? And how much chance are you going to have to have sex
with someone if you're acting all tough?

For some
reason Bishop in NWN2 seemed far more sinister to me than Zevran ever
did, perhaps it's his overal attitude. Zevran seems to turn everything
into a joke which makes it hard to take him seriously. Add to that the
accent. Maybe it's Zevrans facial expression, he looked really
evil when he was ambushing the party but after he joined he looks kinda
perma-high. I can't put my finger on it but whatever it is Zevran is
not much of a 'bad boy' to me. Assassin or not.

It's true that he never really seems to get angry. Even if you're a jerk to him in dialogue he just lets it roll off of him. He'll get cold if you try to make an agreement with the elf slavers or save the Arl of Denerim's son (the one who is the bad guy in the city elf origin), but never angry. He pretty much rolls with the punches. I find this endearing.

I also agree about his facial expression, but I think it's him leering/smiling. haha

[syllogi]

Evainelithe wrote...
For some reason Bishop in NWN2 seemed far more sinister to me than Zevran ever did, perhaps it's his overal attitude. Zevran seems to turn everything into a joke which makes it hard to take him seriously. Add to that the accent. Maybe it's Zevrans facial expression, he looked really evil when he was ambushing the party but after he joined he looks kinda perma-high. I can't put my finger on it but whatever it is Zevran is not much of a 'bad boy' to me. Assassin or not.

Bishop seemed far more sinister because he was waaaaaay more evil.  The guy would only stay on your side at the end if you joined the King of Shadows.  It REALLY creeps me out how women seemed to like his character...he's way beyond a "bad boy," liking Bishop was like being a groupie of some serial killer. 

Zevran makes it clear that he was raised into the life of being assassin, and he's known nothing else.  He's become good at what he does, but killing people doesn't define him.  He enjoys living, even when he hates himself, because he's practical that way.  I agree he's not that much of a "bad boy" if you get to really know him, but he's enough of one on the surface that it can be fun.  I prefer fun to psycho in my men.  

[Antigone2283]

Namirsolo wrote...

I wouldn't describe Alistair as prude at all! It's only been, what,
I think 5 months since he left the Chantry to join the Grey Wardens? It
doesn't take much at all to build a relationship with him - so he'll
only turn you down if you're pushing him into having casual sex before
you've gotten to know each other. Even then, he isn't disgusted by your
offer, or offended...just says he's not ready, which I think is pretty
reasonable for ANY virgin, let alone one from a religious order. He's
willing to kiss in front of most of the companions, even if he's a
little shy about it. And he does seem to enjoy the bawdy teasing - he
just doesn't dish it out like Zevran can.  I'd say it's more a matter
of being inexperienced (which, for me, is waaaaaay hotter than an easy
shag with someone who's already 'been there, done that'...but that's a
personal preference ../../../images/forum/emoticons/grin.png)
And he's certainly not as KINKY as Zevran (although there's an inherent
submissiveness to him that definitely has some kink potential ../../../images/forum/emoticons/angel.png.) But that doesn't really equal "prudish!" 

I would call him a prude because any time anyone mentions sex (except for your the pc if he's romancing them) he shies away from the subject or goes "ew gross". He does this when Morrigan mentions her mother having "company" to which I say "good for her". He does this when Wynne talks about mages still being able to have sex. And most annoyingly, he does it when Zevran offers pointers on how to please the PC better. In fact, in this case he literally puts his fingers in his ears and says "I'm not listening." That is the very definition of prude. In my experience, if a guy can't even talk about sex he's going to be pretty terrible at it. Also, I generally don't like anyone who can't discuss sex. But I guess that's just me.

If you ask Alistair into your tent again after the first time you ask him and he says no you start losing approval. Like, dude, I'm not pressuring you, I'm just checking to see if you're ready or not. Am I supposed to be psychic and just know?

I'd say being submissive can be hot (if you're into that) but I've never thought a guy being a virgin was sexy. I guess some girls are into the "corrupting", but I'd rather have someone who knows what they're doing.

Maybe your definition of prude is different than mine...I would say, someone is "prude" when they, among other things, disapprove of or have negative opinions/feelings about sex.  I don't equate shyness about sex with "prudeness." Alistair is certainly shy about it, but he seems to be pretty much in favor of it (in fact, the reason he refuses you is not because it's icky or wrong, but because he respects the experience and doesn't want to rush into it.) And the shyness is not surprising given that he's never been allowed to talk about it before, or interact in a sexual way with the opposite sex. He's shy, he's awkward, he lacks confidance in matters of sexuality...which sounds about right for someone with his life history and sexual experience: it's all new to him.  I can say that when I was a virgin/newly sexually active person, I certainly wasn't having in-depth conversations about sexual technique...(especially if it was from someone I didn't even like.I don't think Zevran was trying to be genuinely helpful, anyway. I think he was being catty.) No, Alistair's not "in your face lets talk about sex!!" but I don't think that makes him prude.

I don't think I ever triggered an "ewww gross" from Alistair, even when I told him I'd licked my share of lamposts, and then some (he did say it was disturbing, but it kind of is...)  I teased him every chance I got, and sure, he gets embarassed and nervous. He seems perfectly happy to talk about/be teased about sex from the PC (once he likes you enough.) You get higher approval if you make those dialogue choices, in fact. 

However, if being a mentor (I wouldn't say "corrupting" because that
sounds like sex is somehow bad, and you're making him dirty) to his new
sexuality is not your cuppa, that's another matter entirely.  Sex doesn't have to be about who has the best technique...there's something to be said about the process of exploration.  It's like when you watch your favorite movie with someone who's never seen it before: they may not get all the nuances that you've picked up through multiple viewings,  but you just can't WAIT until they see the best part.....

[Namirsolo]

I don't think Zevran was trying to be genuinely helpful, anyway. I think he was being catty.)

I think you are mistaken then. Zevran seems to me like the type of person who wants everyone to enjoy sex more. He tries to set with up with a friend of his after she turns him down. Although he does it partly to make her uncomfortable, he just wants other people to get some.  If his intention was to be catty he wouldn't have offered any advice to Alistair at all. Unless of course, he's being catty in the sense that he wants the warden to see that Alistair isn't concerned with pleasing her enough to take advice or that he can't discuss sex at all? In that case, his cattiness worked on me in that sense. haha

Speaking of the warden overhearing a conversation between Alistair and Zevran, apparently they can have one where Alistair asks him what his intentions are with the warden and Zev is like "Uh, she's standing right there!"

Alistair did not have the "ew gross" reaction to anything my character said about sex, but he has to it things which come up in party banter- ie, Morrigan's and Wynne's. Pretty much every time someone brings the subject up he makes it very clear that he doesn't want to hear anything about it. This is my definition of the word prude. A prude is not someone who refuses to never ever have sex. It is usually a religious person who is "saving it" either for marriage or "the one". They want it to be perfect and special and therefore would not just discuss it with anyone. That is exactly how Alistair is (except if he's hardened, haha the puns...).

Also, I put "corrupting" in quotes because I don't see it that way, but some people would like to feel devious about the matter of helping a virgin learn the ropes, as it were. haha

I find it annoying and it makes it look like he doesn't have enough spine to stand up for his opinion. I prefer a 'bad boy' that at least seems a little  'dangerous' to the PC. Like playing with fire. Pretty but dangerous.

ps. I don't mean 'dangerous' as in physically violent like slapping, more like 'beware of what you do to him or he'll go rogue on you and rejoin logain to collect that bounty'

Well, I mean Zevran will leave you and attempt to kill you if his approval is too low when Taliesin jumps you. It would be incredibly stupid of him to do this before he has help since he has already seen how hard to kill your party is. So, if you offend him he will bide his time until he has a better chance.

When I said he "rolls with the punches" I mean that he takes whatever life gives him and makes the best of it. I don't see this as a negative quality. With his past, if he didn't do that he'd be one of those brooding emo people I can't stand,. What I was specifically referring to was the dialogue option to tell him "Don't be an idiot" when he shares his life philosophy with you. He says something like "Well aren't you a difficult one today?" and you take an 8 approval point hit.

Modifié par Namirsolo, 29 décembre 2009 - 04:43 .

[Daenie]

Team Zevran

[Prolefeed]

 So I got Dragon Age: Origins for Christmas, and I'm in the beginning-ish of my first playthrough right now. I'm not really making much of a character, just kind of running around and experimenting with stuff. "Oh, this sounds cool. . . . Look, shiny!"

I personally find Alistair adorable, so I've been flirting it up with him the whole game. But then Zev rolled up, and I was basically, "Oooh, pretty elf-man! Let's keep him!" And I'd heard you have to get Sev to like you pretty quickly or he turns on you when the Crows show back up, so I started flirting with Zev, too. (And I find him attractive as well, although in a completely different way from Alistair.)

Earlier tonight I was playing, and I'd just gotten Alistair to kiss my character for the first time at the party camp. So I went around, talking to everyone, and when I got to Zev, I was like, "A sexual banter option!?! Let me follow this!" And I invited Zev into my character's tent, and they totally had sex and then talked about it afterwards . . . while Alistair's head was visible in the background!! I actually felt awkward about what was going on in the videogame!

Anyway, I like both the characters, I'm probably going to switch between choosing one or the other on various playthroughs when I'm actually roleplaying a character . . . But that was just awkward. Did seriously no one notice that in the whole development period?

[Namirsolo]

Anyway, I like both the characters, I'm probably going to switch
between choosing one or the other on various playthroughs when I'm
actually roleplaying a character . . . But that was just awkward. Did
seriously no one notice that in the whole development period?

Maybe they did and thought it was funny. He also seems to be leering over your shoulder since he looks in your direciton. I kind of wish they had made those scenes into pillowtalk instead of standing out in the open, mostly because the other guy is RIGHT THERE and could probably hear you. Leliana's after conversation takes place after you have slept together for the night since she asks how you slept. Why couldn't they do this for the guys?

[Seallyn]

Antigone2283 wrote...


However, if being a mentor (I wouldn't say "corrupting" because that
sounds like sex is somehow bad, and you're making him dirty) to his new
sexuality is not your cuppa, that's another matter entirely.  Sex doesn't have to be about who has the best technique...there's something to be said about the process of exploration.  It's like when you watch your favorite movie with someone who's never seen it before: they may not get all the nuances that you've picked up through multiple viewings,  but you just can't WAIT until they see the best part.....

Yeah I have to agree.  Although, I mentioned breaking Alistair earlier, and that does not necessarily mean sex.  I've known several people in my life who were uptight about one thing or another living very sheltered lives and some thing happened, different things (one of them lost their mother (she left them, she didn't die)) and it completely changed their lives, in a good way.  That's the way I see it with Alistair.  It's not particularly about the sex, sex is just the medium.  It's about having someone really care for him in a way that he never knew before, opening a new world to him through intimacy,  I'm glad my character got to be the person to do it.  (Now if I just had a different option to harden him, that would be great.)