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[ejoslin]

MutantSpleen wrote...

Yeah I don't think I got another chance to go to the tent, it was right before the final battle I got the earring.

Might have to reload and redo the final battle tonight

Oh, if you don't ask him to the tent, you don't complete the romance.  You may want to try an earlier save.  You seriously have missed out on the very best dialogs with him.  A lot of people don't actually finish the romance (have both Zev and Alistair at 100 or something, in which case it can't be finished).  It really is very different from how you'd expect it to end.

Modifié par ejoslin, 15 mars 2010 - 04:58 .

[MutantSpleen]

No Alistair is down in the 80's because I chewed him out when he dumped me. Yeah I am going to go back to my save before the final battle and invite him to my tent.

[Tinnic]

errant_knight wrote...

Tinnic wrote...

Alistair... if I didn't know he was going to break my heart! *sob*

He doesn't have to, y'know.... ; ) As long as you're willing to forego either children or marriage, depending on your situation. If he does (one playthrough for me), it breaks his heart, too--but that doesn't make it feel any better, does it?

Even though I rolled my Dalish Rogue with the intention of romancing Zevran and seeing it through to the end with the ring and all. I must admit that when it came to the crossroads and both Alistair and Zevran told her that she had to choose between them... it wasn't easy. Especially since I knew that I was going to "harden" Alistair's personality and thus my rogue COULD be his mistress at end game. After much back and forth I decided that since my Dalish Rogue was going to make the ultimate sacrifice, she might as well romance Zevran and write a truly tragic romance.

However, I have since reloaded my Elvish Mage (I only have two characters) who had a save just before the Landsmeet and put Anora on the throne (since her Alistair was not hardened) just so she could keep seeing Alistair. I actually have a save on my Elvish Mage post -coronation where both she and Alistair are alive because they took Morrigan up on her offer but Alistair is king on his own and so dumped her after yelling at her for making him king. That the worst and I really should have made her make the ultimate sacrifice but whatever! Since I am replaying the end-game and Alistair remains at her side as her lover, she can take-up Morrigan's offer again and she and prince goofily-charming can ride off into the sunset together.

Anyway, in summation, both Zevran and Alistair are excellently written romances. I must give David Gaider props for them both. Especially when you compare them to romances in say Mass Effect (both the Mass Effects) or even the non-David Gaider written romance in the form of Leliana.

[Sabriana]

Oh lordy. PC ultimate sacrifice, and Zevran at 100 love.

Ghastly. Worst ending I've ever seen. Poor Zevran. Poor, poor man.

[MutantSpleen]

Is it as bad as Leliana? She does not have a good end with the ultimate sacrifice.

[SurelyForth]

Sabriana wrote...

Oh lordy. PC ultimate sacrifice, and Zevran at 100 love.
Ghastly. Worst ending I've ever seen. Poor Zevran. Poor, poor man.

Really? I think Leliana and non-king Alistair's endings are much sadder. At least Zevran does something and doesn't just cease to exist.

[ejoslin]

Zevran at love? Far worse.  He becomes the absolute worst thing he possibly could, and not a soul can get close to him again.  It's close to the friendship ending, but, oh, so bad.

Edit: What makes Zevran's US ending so bad when he's in love is all the good you see about him beforehand, gone.  You don't get that sense when he's in the friendzone.

Modifié par ejoslin, 15 mars 2010 - 05:42 .

[MutantSpleen]

Tinnic wrote...

Anyway, in summation, both Zevran and Alistair are excellently written romances. I must give David Gaider props for them both. Especially when you compare them to romances in say Mass Effect (both the Mass Effects) or even the non-David Gaider written romance in the form of Leliana.

Agree. ME2 romances were not good.

I'm just interested in "talking"


My mage is in a romance with Leliana, her romance is good but, it does not do much else after you win her over. No twists or surprises, though you have to work for her love.

[MutantSpleen]

Yeah I would still say Leliana committing suicide is the worst.

[BubbleDncr]

My main character is a Dalish Elf Rogue who started out not caring for the lives of humans. It wasn't until Alistair got really pissed at her for sacrificing Isolde that she started to grow a conscience and she spent the rest of the damn game trying to be a good person for him. For awhile tho, it looked like he would never really forgive her, so she slept with Zev a few times. But eventually, Alistair invited her to his tent, and she broke Zev's heart. But Zev's still her best friend.



My current character I'm just sticking with Zev, to see how that goes. He's definately a lot deeper than Alistair - seeing him on the rack in the Fade was heartbreaking - its the only one of those fade dream things that's had any effect on me so far, and totally put Zev in a new light for me.



But generally, I've romanced Alistair/Zev/Leliana at the same time, and when they tell me to pick, I always pick Alistair. Its just in my current game I'm being evil and have no shot with Al. And it is SO HARD to be mean to him.



Right now I'm planning on ending my current game by having Loghain sacrifce himself and me and Zev riding happily off into the sunset. But maybe I'll save right before that and sacrifice myself once just to see how depressed Zev is.

[Tinnic]

SurelyForth wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

Oh lordy. PC ultimate sacrifice, and Zevran at 100 love.
Ghastly. Worst ending I've ever seen. Poor Zevran. Poor, poor man.

Really? I think Leliana and non-king Alistair's endings are much sadder. At least Zevran does something and doesn't just cease to exist.

I don't know the Leliana ultimate sacrifice ending but I agree that non-king Alistair is just sad and reason enough to put him on the throne... unless you are romancing him, don't have him hardened and plan to stick around by taking Morrigan's offer. Then Alistair get's what he truly wants: you and to remain a grey warden. Remembering that he doesn't warm to the idea of being king unless he is hardened.

However, Zevran at +100 and ultimate sacrifice is still the most tragic romance ever because he NEVER get's over you and has a dramatic change in personality because of it. I mean, this is guy who when he met you was ready to bed anything that breathed and while he was seeking death because of what happened with that female crow back in Antiva, he hadn't closed off his heart or anything like that. But post losing you, he not only resumes seeking death (why else would he take the fight to the Crow on their home soil?) but he also permanently closes off his heart to the point that he won't even engage in casual sex any more! O.O

That's how deeply you scarred the poor Assassin. Might might actually have been more merciful to kill him that day when he tried to kill you or broken up with him before you went and sacrificed yourself. My Dalish Elf actually took Zevran with her to face the archdemon (it was her, Zevran, Wynn and Sten - would have preferred Alistair but I knew he would want to take the blow and I just didn't want to deal with that conversation). In short, he actually forced to witness her last moments! How terribly cruel can you get! T.T It's all so tragic!

[ejoslin]

Tinnic wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

Oh lordy. PC ultimate sacrifice, and Zevran at 100 love.
Ghastly. Worst ending I've ever seen. Poor Zevran. Poor, poor man.

Really? I think Leliana and non-king Alistair's endings are much sadder. At least Zevran does something and doesn't just cease to exist.

I don't know the Leliana ultimate sacrifice ending but I agree that non-king Alistair is just sad and reason enough to put him on the throne... unless you are romancing him, don't have him hardened and plan to stick around by taking Morrigan's offer. Then Alistair get's what he truly wants: you and to remain a grey warden. Remembering that he doesn't warm to the idea of being king unless he is hardened.

However, Zevran at +100 and ultimate sacrifice is still the most tragic romance ever because he NEVER get's over you and has a dramatic change in personality because of it. I mean, this is guy who when he met you was ready to bed anything that breathed and while he was seeking death because of what happened with that female crow back in Antiva, he hadn't closed off his heart or anything like that. But post losing you, he not only resumes seeking death (why else would he take the fight to the Crow on their home soil?) but he also permanently closes off his heart to the point that he won't even engage in casual sex any more! O.O

That's how deeply you scarred the poor Assassin. Might might actually have been more merciful to kill him that day when he tried to kill you or broken up with him before you went and sacrificed yourself. My Dalish Elf actually took Zevran with her to face the archdemon (it was her, Zevran, Wynn and Sten - would have preferred Alistair but I knew he would want to take the blow and I just didn't want to deal with that conversation). In short, he actually forced to witness her last moments! How terribly cruel can you get! T.T It's all so tragic!

Might be more merciful?  Would definitely be the kindest thing to do rather than put him through that.  No one ever gets close to him again, not mentally, not physically.  He's just a empty shell.  Ugh.  Everything that was good about him, dead along with the warden.

Modifié par ejoslin, 15 mars 2010 - 05:55 .

[Nimue_KV]

*shudder* Remind me to never sacrifice my character if Zev is in love with her... (which basically means that none of my characters will get the Ultimate Sacrifice ending  ) This does indeed sound ghastly, I'd much rather let Morrigan have her demon child and let the world be damned than this.

[MutantSpleen]

I wonder how integral that is it seems like a major plot point for Morrigan to have that baby. I think its going to be something really big in the future. So I wonder what will happen with people who sacrifice Alistair\\Loghain. No baby. Seems a bit less dramatic.

[errant_knight]

Tinnic wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

Oh lordy. PC ultimate sacrifice, and Zevran at 100 love.
Ghastly. Worst ending I've ever seen. Poor Zevran. Poor, poor man.

Really? I think Leliana and non-king Alistair's endings are much sadder. At least Zevran does something and doesn't just cease to exist.

I don't know the Leliana ultimate sacrifice ending but I agree that non-king Alistair is just sad and reason enough to put him on the throne... unless you are romancing him, don't have him hardened and plan to stick around by taking Morrigan's offer. Then Alistair get's what he truly wants: you and to remain a grey warden. Remembering that he doesn't warm to the idea of being king unless he is hardened.

Debating which is sadder isn't really doable, since it both depends on what you consider ultimately sad, and how much you care about the characters, and really, both are sad, but I can't agree that becoming king isn't really what Alistair can want. Unhardened Alistair sees himself and the world in a slightly different way than hardened Alistair. When he's hardened, he wants to be king. That isn't negated because he changed his mind. Hardened, he wants to be king just as 'truely' as he didn't want it before he thought about it in a different way. To say otherwise implys that we can never change our minds without losing our true selves.

Modifié par errant_knight, 15 mars 2010 - 06:07 .

[Sabriana]

Yes, indeed. He is still walking and breathing, but completely dead inside. I saw his facial expressions at the funeral, and my heart broke. For a pixel person.

[SurelyForth]

Heh, at least he gets to come to the funeral. If Alistair isn't king, he's nowhere to be seen. I looked in the toolset and the only mentions of reactions are for Leliana and Zevran.

[Tinnic]

errant_knight wrote...

Tinnic wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

Oh lordy. PC ultimate sacrifice, and Zevran at 100 love.
Ghastly. Worst ending I've ever seen. Poor Zevran. Poor, poor man.

Really? I think Leliana and non-king Alistair's endings are much sadder. At least Zevran does something and doesn't just cease to exist.

I don't know the Leliana ultimate sacrifice ending but I agree that non-king Alistair is just sad and reason enough to put him on the throne... unless you are romancing him, don't have him hardened and plan to stick around by taking Morrigan's offer. Then Alistair get's what he truly wants: you and to remain a grey warden. Remembering that he doesn't warm to the idea of being king unless he is hardened.

Debating which is sadder isn't really doable, since it both depends on what you consider ultimately sad, and how much you care about the characters, and really, both are sad, but I can't agree that becoming king isn't really what Alistair can want. Unhardened Alistair sees himself and the world in a slightly different way than hardened Alistair. When he's hardened, he wants to be king. That isn't negated because he changed his mind. Hardened, he wants to be king just as 'truely' as he didn't want it before he thought about it in a different way. To say otherwise implys that we can never change our minds without losing our true selves.

Ah sorry, I seem to have given the wrong impression. But no I don't think its a negative for Alistair to... grow a little and start to want to become king. I think its a good thing because between Alistair and Anora, I do prefer Alistair.  It's just that if he is unhardened you are basically putting him on the throne kicking and screaming and having experienced that once, I have no intention of repeating it. From now on, whenever I play again (I don't really have plans on playing through again anytime soon) I am so hardening him whether I romance him or not! Just so that when I do make him king, he doesn't chew me up for it afterwards! >.<

[MutantSpleen]

So many things tug at my heart in this game. I have a hard time even killing Loghain. When he busts out that line "Hush Anora. Little girls never grow up they stay six years old with scabby knees". I was like "Ahhh! Did you have to say that?!"

[Sabriana]

I wish he didn't SurelyForth. Seeing his face and the way he just dies inside at the epilogue made me reload faster than lickety-split. Unfortunately, that means I can never have a PC do the ultimate sacrifice. Because she also can't allow Morrigan to breed a god/demon/whatever baby, that means poor Alistair will always have to go through seeing Loghain spared. She needs Loghain for the demon, Ferelden needs Alistair, and Zevran needs my PC.

Yeah, I know. Metagaming. But after the first run-through everyone more or less does it, whether consciously or subconsciously.

I just imagine in my game that my PC knows that Riordan has a reason for his recommendation, and she will heed the older and more experienced warden.

Edited to nullify any clarity.

Modifié par Sabriana, 15 mars 2010 - 06:18 .

[ejoslin]

My dwarf noble did the US. The rest, it's a tossup between doing the ritual and feeding Alistair or Loghain to the archdemon. Both Ali and Log want to take that blow, and she does NOT. Maybe it's selfish of her, letting the king of Ferelden die or letting Loghain redeem himself, but she has so much she wants to live for.

[Addai]

I know people have said that they felt most satisfied by a US game, but even without the terrible repurcussions for the romance partners, it just feels flat and pointless to me. Why die when the story can go on in much more interesting ways? Maybe people like the idea of the big statue. Then again, if you asked Bhelen or Harrowmount for "one of those big statues with my face on it," you can have the best of both worlds.

[SurelyForth]

I hate any ending that doesn't involve the DR. The US leaves one to three of my favorite companions heartbroken, Alistair's sacrifice leaves my PC's without their constant companion and the Loghain sacrifice confers upon him a hero's status that I feel he does not deserve.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 15 mars 2010 - 06:36 .

[errant_knight]

SurelyForth wrote...

I hate any ending that doesn't involve the DR. The US leaves one to three of my favorite companions heartbroken, Alistair's sacrifice leaves my PC's without their constant companion and the Loghain sacrifice confers upon him a hero's status that I feel he does not deserve.

Agreed, the only one I can contemplate is the self-sacrifice one (if I'm involved, my character would feel the same as Alistair about it with the additional knowledge that Alistair's death would put Anora on the throne, negating everything we've done), and even in the best possible cases, it's not good for the companions. Of course we may have to change our minds about that once we find out what Morrigan has in mind.

[sylvanaerie]

I like the US mostly cause it feels different the entire run through Denerim to get to the AD. The final goodbyes at the gate, the end fight, then getting Alistair to agree to let my Cousland boy take the blow instead of his king. And the ending was great.



However, letting Alistair take the blow is the SUCKIEST ending ever. I just wanted to throw my PC through the window when I saw it, I was that mad. Loghain never makes it out of the landsmeet standing so I don't know about his Sacrifice ending but frankly I don't think he deserves a hero's end considering he really hasn't been a hero the entire game.