770 réponses à ce sujet

[ejoslin]

LOL, Jayelet, just like Zevran isn't for everyone, nor is Alistair. I definitely agree that Zevran has more personality, he's witty, smart, savvy. But you know, Alistair DOES have the prettier words. Both can have beautiful AND tragic endings, though. I think that was my main point -- that there's variation in Zevran's romance as well. It's not that Alistair gives you the full range of endings and Zevran doesn't. Geez, one of the saddest things in the Zevran romance is if you break up with him to marry Alistair/Anora even though it's just a political match. He is so wonderful and so supportive and understands completely -- and he's so gentle and tender even though you can see his heart being ripped to shreds.



My point, you get moments like that in BOTH romances, not just Alistair's.

[SurelyForth]

Jayelet wrote...

Let me explain ...

I disagree Ejosli at all.
Alistair ... king has power, his father was able to prop up Loghain.
Waiver of "love" that is weak.
It is easily manipulated, has no character, no personality.
I've traveled the romance of Alistair several times, from start to finish.
I know what I mean.

That's purely subjective, of course. A king can't just change who he can and cannot marry, especially a bastard who takes the throne in a very non-standard situation. Maric propped up Loghain but he also married who he had to marry and not who he wanted to marry (not that he could of marry Katriel).

Alistair's love for the Warden isn't weak at all, but it's like ejoslin says, he doesn't have the luxury of putting his feelings first. Part of the reason he breaks up with the PC after he's made king at the Landsmeet is because he does not feel right being in a relationship that he knows he cannot commit to and it obviously tears him apart to end it. If he realizes that he can stay in a relationship with the PC, even one that is compromised, it's for the long haul.

I don't know why you would say he's easily manipulated- since he's just as malleable with corercion/gifts as all of your companions and he has a breaking point where he can be lost forever. And I suppose character and personality are subjective as well, but I think Alistair has one of the best personalities I've encountered in a fictional character (including movies, books and television) for quite a long time.  I love a snarky, slightly dorky guy who has a quick sense of humor. And that's to say nothing of his potential if you harden him.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 16 mars 2010 - 03:29 .

[errant_knight]

Sannox wrote...

I haven't played through the full Alistair romance, so I can't comment on the whole thing, but it seemed to me that he was more difficult to romance both in terms of getting him into bed and getting him to fall in love. I thought he was flirting at the beginning until I played through as a male and found out that he was just being friendly. His view of sex IS sullied, unfortunately, so you don't have that obvious way of connecting with him early on. He also falls in love less easily (from what I have seen. Maybe if I played the whole thing through I would have a different view and it's possible that he falls for the warden much earlier than I thought)

Well, no. This just isn't so. He starts to fall for the PC right away (you can get dialogue to indicate this as you go into Redcliffe at times), but the relationship can't progress until you do his personal quest. So it kind of stops for a quest or two. His view of sex is actually the opposite of sullied. He thinks it's important and meaninful, not a casual thing.--and you have the same way to connect with him that we generally connect with people whom we aren't having sex with. You can talk to him.

SurelyForth wrote...

Jayelet wrote...

Let me explain ...

I disagree Ejosli at all.
Alistair ... king has power, his father was able to prop up Loghain.
Waiver of "love" that is weak.
It is easily manipulated, has no character, no personality.
I've traveled the romance of Alistair several times, from start to finish.
I know what I mean.

That's purely subjective, of course. A king can't just change who he can and cannot marry, especially a bastard who takes the throne in a very non-standard situation. Maric propped up Loghain but he also married who he had to marry and not who he wanted to marry (not that he could of marry Katriel).

Alistair's love for the Warden isn't weak at all, but it's like ejoslin says, he doesn't have the luxury of putting his feelings first. Part of the reason he breaks up with the PC after he's made king at the Landsmeet is because he does not feel right being in a relationship that he knows he cannot commit to and it obviously tears him apart to end it. If he realizes that he can stay in a relationship with the PC, even one that is compromised, it's for the long haul.

I don't know why you would say he's easily manipulated- since he's just as malleable with corercion/gifts as all of your companions and he has a breaking point where he can be lost forever. And I suppose character and personality are subjective as well, but I think Alistair has one of the best personalities I've encountered in a fictional character (including movies, books and television) for quote a long time.  I love a snarky, slightly dorky guy who has a quick sense of humor. And that's to say nothing of his potential if you harden him.

Personally, I find it admirable that Alistair will attempt to end the relationship, and a positive, rather than a negative. It's clearly not what he wants to do, but he will give up everything he wants to do what he believes is necessary to be a good king--to have an heir, to treat the potential future queen and the PC with respect, to not string anyone along, or risk behaving an a personally selfish manner because he wants to so much. It's a prime example of why I like Alistair, not an example of poor behavior.

That being said, my PCs are generally more selfish than Alistair, and often go the marriage route, or (once) the mistress one. However, the one time the relationship ended,, depressing as it was, I probably felt like Alistair was the better man for it, if a less happy one.

I also don't think that Zevran has 'more' personality than Alistair. He has a different personality that one may or may not find  more appealing--there are certainly fans of both--but not 'more.'

Modifié par errant_knight, 16 mars 2010 - 03:47 .

[Addai]

Jayelet, tell us what you really think. The Alistair romance is far from shallow. In fact, one of the appealing things about his character is that he has a belief system whereby he will put others- the country- ahead of himself. Don't you *want* a king who will do that? If Alistair is careless of duty or a tyrant, would that really make his lover happy? OTOH, when your PC convinces him to go against a core belief and retain some private happiness alongside doing his duty, that is a major breakthrough for him.

One of the touching things about both romances is that by the end, it feels like the two of you against the world. With Alistair and the HNF especially, both of you have lost your families. You *are* each other's family. Even my Dalish elf felt that, because she had lost her clan. As the only surviving Grey Wardens, you have a natural kinship as well. The feeling of "us against the world" is certainly also there with Zevran, who has lost everything and is rebuilding a new life.

Modifié par Addai67, 16 mars 2010 - 03:27 .

[SurelyForth]

Sannox wrote...

I haven't played through the full Alistair romance, so I can't comment on the whole thing, but it seemed to me that he was more difficult to romance both in terms of getting him into bed and getting him to fall in love. I thought he was flirting at the beginning until I played through as a male and found out that he was just being friendly. His view of sex IS sullied, unfortunately, so you don't have that obvious way of connecting with him early on. He also falls in love less easily (from what I have seen. Maybe if I played the whole thing through I would have a different view and it's possible that he falls for the warden much earlier than I thought)

Yeah, you can have Alistair in love within one ally if you want to do Redcliffe first and go to the Circle as part of that whole quest. Even if you get Zevran right away, you won't be able to get him in love until after the Landsmeet has started.

[HoonDing]

Zevran would win in a fight between the two. So the choice is pretty easy.



In fact in KOTOR 2, the love interests would literally fight over a dark side Jedi (at least in the restored content). Pity something like that was not in DA. One might even draw parallels between Zevran & Atton, and the Disciple & Alistair. Snarky assassin with tortured past vs holier-than-thou goodie-two-shoes.

[SurelyForth]

virumor wrote...

Zevran would win in a fight between the two. So the choice is pretty easy.

In fact in KOTOR 2, the love interests would literally fight over a dark side Jedi (at least in the restored content). Pity something like that was not in DA. One might even draw parallels between Zevran & Atton, and the Disciple & Alistair. Snarky assassin with tortured past vs holier-than-thou goodie-two-shoes.

I don't know if you can say that for certain- Zevran fell pretty quickly against him both on the initial ambush and when he sided with Taliesen.

Alistair is neither holier-than-thou or a goody-two-shoes. He is barely religious (I think the only time he really shows his upbringing is when you intimidate Mother Hannah in Lothering) and he won't even disapprove of some pretty bordeline unsavoury dealings- like the Antivan Crows quests, killing the elves or destroying the ashes.

[syllogi]

ejoslin wrote...

Edit: I guess I'm unusual that while *I* greatly prefer the Zevran romance, I don't think it's any better or worse than the Alistair one.  They're both beautifully done, and very touching and moving.  I think anyone who dismisses either one without actually completing it is missing out on some great stuff.

I agree completely about this, and while I lurve Alistair, and he would be my choice if I had to pick, I was very pleasantly surprised by Zevran's romance, and how well written it is.  It's very easy for people to write him off as a himbo only out for sex, without getting to know the truth about him.

HOWEVER . . . I've stopped coming to the Dragon Age forums lately because all of the Alistair bashing gets exhausting.  Not in this thread, necessarily, but in general.  He has plenty of people who like him, but it seems like Alistair fans get written off as shallow or silly.

Alistair is very well written in his own right, and a lot of people label him as weak and whiny and lame, without seeing that he has layers of complexity.  He is young and inexperienced, and doesn't make the best decisions, but he recognizes his failings, and will rise above them if given the opportunity.  He has a line he won't cross, but so do most of the other companions, and I'm sure most regular people have things they just will NOT do in their lives.  I appreciate that a main male character was created who has so many faults, as well as charms, and who can either live up to his potential, or fail, depending on how the story plays out.

I would love to play a sequel (or read a book) that showed Alistair ten years down the line, to see how he develops as a King or Grey Warden, or even as the drunk who ran away.  To me, Alistair, along with Maric in the books, are the heart of this setting, and it wouldn't be the same without them.

[StableZanerStar]

I would actually date in Alistair in real life if he kinda looked like that, only not so...virtual. Also because he really seems to be quite noble and honourable. And thoughhe can talk a lot it is sweet and funny sometimes. He's very apologetic too...I like that. lol

[Addai]

TeenZombie wrote...
I would love to play a sequel (or read a book) that showed Alistair ten years down the line, to see how he develops as a King or Grey Warden, or even as the drunk who ran away.  To me, Alistair, along with Maric in the books, are the heart of this setting, and it wouldn't be the same without them.

+1

I hope that the Maric we see in the books is the Alistair we'll see later on, minus the melancholy weariness and loneliness in The Calling.  In insist on a happy ending for all these characters, damn it! 

Even if Alistair ends up a drunk, I picture Fiona showing up one day and dragging him out of a flop-house by the ear and taking him to that great rehab center known as Weisshaupt.

[ejoslin]

SurelyForth wrote...

I don't know if you can say that for certain- Zevran fell pretty quickly against him both on the initial ambush and when he sided with Taliesen.

Alistair is neither holier-than-thou or a goody-two-shoes. He is barely religious (I think the only time he really shows his upbringing is when you intimidate Mother Hannah in Lothering) and he won't even disapprove of some pretty bordeline unsavoury dealings- like the Antivan Crows quests, killing the elves or destroying the ashes.

You can't really compare how an NPC fights compared to how they fight as a PC.  That whole thing is silly.  If Alistair is anything like Loghain in a fight, of course he'd lose to a melee rogue -- it's just the way the two fight, a S&S warrior is defenseless against dirty fighting and paralyze runes.  They may hit hard, but if they cant' get a hit in, they're dead.

I find approval and disapproval for both characters quite interesting.  You're right, Alistair does not object to the dalish elves being killed -- Zevran sure does, unless you pass a persuade check.  Alistair doesn't disapprove of much unless it concerns his "family."  Both disapprove strongly of being spoken badly to.  I think the only character who disapproves of the crows quest is Wynne, and that is mild (-1).  I'm more surprised that Zevran doesn't disapprove of being dragged into them to begin with than Alistair not disapproving.

Edit: I mean, the whole comment made about Zevran winning a fight against Alistair is silly.  SO WHAT?  Either way?  It has nothing to do with the romances.

Modifié par ejoslin, 16 mars 2010 - 04:02 .

[SurelyForth]

ejoslin wrote...

Edit: I mean, the whole comment made about Zevran winning a fight against Alistair is silly.  SO WHAT?  Either way?  It has nothing to do with the romances.

Fighting over anyone is silly, anyway. If there ever was a duel between Alistair and Zev for my PC's hand (bleargh, what a horrible concept) it would be Leliana all the way.

I agree with Addai and Teen Zombie that a book about Alistair as king needs to be released. One of the things that really makes me sick to my stomach in this game is the fact that, even though Alistair has a history in the DA world (and, possibly, one that he might not even be aware of) he can be killed or exiled or sacrificed before even getting a real chance to live up to his promise.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 16 mars 2010 - 03:59 .

[ejoslin]

Yet another comment, because I love to type. It is true that Zevran's romance completes far later in the game. I think that many people who don't do the romance don't realize that Zevran DOES care about the warden before then, and it's more than casual. He's struggling with his feelings just as surely as Alistair is struggling with his feelings once he realizes he will be king. Even before you do Goldanna, Alistair is more than willing to sleep with the Warden, and cares for her very deeply. I'd say, once any of the romance partners hit "adore" they have deep feelings.

Both can be raised up quickly. I can easily get Zevran to "adore" before leaving the initial area if I already have the dalish gloves. If you take him to the tent, you get up to +23 approval and then +1 for every trip afterwards. I also can have Alistair at Adore with the amulet + 1 more gift by the time I beat redcliff. So yes, you CAN get Zevran up to adore far more quickly, even without the tent, and definitely WITH the tent. But so what? That has nothing to do with how the romances play out, and it doesn't make one better than the other.

As errant_knight says, Alistair wanting to break up with the Warden out of fairness to everyone is admirable -- Alistair believes that the warden would be happier without him than just being his mistress. Zevran offering to step aside if the warden is getting married to Alistair/Anora is just as admirable. BOTH will sacrifice their feelings and their love for what is best for the warden, and what they feel will end up making the warden happiest.

Modifié par ejoslin, 16 mars 2010 - 04:10 .

[Huojin]

TeenZombie wrote...

Alistair is very well written in his own right, and a lot of people label him as weak and whiny and lame, without seeing that he has layers of complexity.  He is young and inexperienced, and doesn't make the best decisions, but he recognizes his failings, and will rise above them if given the opportunity.

I lost all respect for Alistair when he dumped the GWs, I'm afraid. He has his plus points but eh. Zevran hands down, every time. Male or female PC (Leliana's not creepy to anyone else???)

[ejoslin]

Does anyone else find it strange that I'm defending Alistair?

[Sabriana]

No. Why do you ask? Both romances have their appeal. Some people even like both the same. I have a definite preference, for definite reasons. But I don't dislike Alistair, heck, I never even attempted the "execute Alistair' ending. I really don't have the heart to do that.

However, my PCs heart (and everything else of hers) belongs to Zevran.

[errant_knight]

Huojin wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

Alistair is very well written in his own right, and a lot of people label him as weak and whiny and lame, without seeing that he has layers of complexity.  He is young and inexperienced, and doesn't make the best decisions, but he recognizes his failings, and will rise above them if given the opportunity.

I lost all respect for Alistair when he dumped the GWs, I'm afraid. He has his plus points but eh. Zevran hands down, every time. Male or female PC (Leliana's not creepy to anyone else???)

And yet I think it shows his honor and nobility, and makes me respect him all the more. Funny thing, that.... Good thing there's more than one romance option, eh? EDIT: Oops! I read this as 'dumped the grey warden.' Your talking about when he leaves the grey wardens, aren't you? Okay. That doesn't make me respect him more, but I'd probably do the same thing. I wouldn't agree to serve beside the man who killed the people I loved, to call him 'brother.' To Alistair, it's a betrayal that desecrates everything he believes in. The only thing that seems off to me is that he doesn't get killed trying to fight the archdemon by himself. I guess that's a mark of how thoroughly destroyed he is by the betrayal.

ejoslin wrote...

Does anyone else find it strange that I'm defending Alistair?

Only a little. I am impressed that you've kept the backhanded compliments to a minimum, though. 

Modifié par errant_knight, 16 mars 2010 - 04:28 .

[Addai]

Huojin wrote...

I lost all respect for Alistair when he dumped the GWs, I'm afraid.

Because no one is allowed to make a mistake in the heat of the moment that they regret the rest of their lives?

As I said upthread, I think part of Alistair's extreme reaction is the sense of betrayal on the part of his fellow Warden.  Even if you're at -100 approval with him, you're still the only other Warden in the country, and he's depending on you.  Given how I feel about Loghain myself, I completely understand this reaction.  I (and thus my PCs) would not want to fight beside Loghain or have him in camp.  How much more so when Alistair sees him as responsible for the death of the only "family" he's ever known (not just Duncan but all the GWs).

I can also understand this because at least a couple of my characters, including my HNF who married Alistair, have not wanted to be Wardens themselves and don't see the GWs as the be-all end-all.

[ejoslin]

errant_knight wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Does anyone else find it strange that I'm defending Alistair?

Only a little. I am impressed that you've kept the backhanded compliments to a minimum, though. 

LOL, backhanded?  I truly have no snark when it comes to Alistair!  I just don't find everything about him appealing!

Edit: I still understand why people do like him as a romance partner, and I think it's beautifully written. Since I way prefer the Zevran romance, things I don't like about Alistair's may come off as snark, I suppose, but there's no snark intended.

Modifié par ejoslin, 16 mars 2010 - 04:21 .

[errant_knight]

Heh, good to know. I'll keep that in mind.

[Carmen_Willow]

SurelyForth wrote...

Jayelet wrote...

Let me explain ...

I disagree Ejosli at all.
Alistair ... king has power, his father was able to prop up Loghain.
Waiver of "love" that is weak.
It is easily manipulated, has no character, no personality.
I've traveled the romance of Alistair several times, from start to finish.
I know what I mean.

That's purely subjective, of course. A king can't just change who he can and cannot marry, especially a bastard who takes the throne in a very non-standard situation. Maric propped up Loghain but he also married who he had to marry and not who he wanted to marry (not that he could of marry Katriel).

Alistair's love for the Warden isn't weak at all, but it's like ejoslin says, he doesn't have the luxury of putting his feelings first. Part of the reason he breaks up with the PC after he's made king at the Landsmeet is because he does not feel right being in a relationship that he knows he cannot commit to and it obviously tears him apart to end it. If he realizes that he can stay in a relationship with the PC, even one that is compromised, it's for the long haul.

I don't know why you would say he's easily manipulated- since he's just as malleable with corercion/gifts as all of your companions and he has a breaking point where he can be lost forever. And I suppose character and personality are subjective as well, but I think Alistair has one of the best personalities I've encountered in a fictional character (including movies, books and television) for quite a long time.  I love a snarky, slightly dorky guy who has a quick sense of humor. And that's to say nothing of his potential if you harden him.

I totally agree.  Alistair, particularly Alistair hardened is just the kind of man I would want fo be with for the rest of my life.  This is the guy who would literally  slay a dragon for you....what more can you ask?  On my early playthroughs in this game, I felt very uneasy when Alistair wasn't at my back.  I hated doing quests without him along, because i KNEW he would die trying to protect me.  Zev is fun, for awhile, but  I could never completely trust him.  People who say Alistair is fickle or weak because he can't/won't marry the character doesn't understand the politics of kingship and marriage.  Nobles never married for love; they married for money, land, status and power. No one, absolutely no one would expect him to marry outside his class.  That's why the only character who has a remote chance of marrying him is the Human Noble female.  After all, her family is the next highest rank in the kingdom (Teryn).  Even then, Alistair's councilors would be pushing for a royal marriage with another country to cement an alliance.  In matters sexual, the king's body is not his own.  It belongs to the State; for he must father an heir. 

[syllogi]

Huojin wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

Alistair is very well written in his own right, and a lot of people label him as weak and whiny and lame, without seeing that he has layers of complexity.  He is young and inexperienced, and doesn't make the best decisions, but he recognizes his failings, and will rise above them if given the opportunity.

I lost all respect for Alistair when he dumped the GWs, I'm afraid. He has his plus points but eh. Zevran hands down, every time. Male or female PC (Leliana's not creepy to anyone else???)

Welp, I guess you'd have no respect for me, because I would have done the same thing, in the same circumstance.  He had no way of knowing that another Grey Warden was crucial to winning against the Archdemon, and he had every reason to think that having his worst enemy join their ranks was a horrible idea.  It is bizarre and illogical to me that anyone thinks that bringing Loghain into the Grey Wardens was a good idea, at that point in the game.  IF he had shown genuine remorse or had changed his ways without having to thoroughly beat him, I could see how Alistair would be unreasonable.  But the common sense a child possesses tells you that embracing your enemy just after you beat him is unwise.

And this is why I don't come to this forum anymore.  Because anytime Alistair is attacked, it goes back to the Landsmeet and Loghain.  Much like Alistair, I will never, ever think that having Loghain join the party is a good idea. 

[Huojin]

@errant_knight , yes I meant the GW "brotherhood"
as it were, not the character Dumping the PC is... more
understandable/admirable - he is putting duty first, after all, and not thinking of himself. And he also does THAT dumping with a lot more dignity and grace than
he does the GW order.

Addai67 wrote...
As I said upthread, I think part of Alistair's extreme reaction is the sense of betrayal on the part of his fellow Warden.  Even if you're at -100 approval with him, you're still the only other Warden in the country, and he's depending on you.

 You can't quit work just because you don't like someone,
I don't see why it's so much more acceptable when you're one of three people left, tied by blood to basically save the world; you *and* Alistair are needed, but he shirks his duty as a GW because of an issue he has with Loghain. He doesn't have to call him "brother", he doesn't have to even look at Loghain. All he has to do is ignore him and do what he is supposed to do as a GW -- help end the Blight. Wynne hates him with a passion but she doesn't leave - she made a commitment to you and she gets on with it. Also, they could club together and be big meanies to him at camp. Alistair likes a good whinge, after all.

And even if I did agree with him on principle (which I guess I'd have to for my CE playthrough), the lack of dignity he displays at the Landsmeet is what turned me off him permanently.

Part of it is of course a fundamental difference with the way you and I see Loghain - I actually don't take issue with the retreat at Ostagar, and therefore much of Loghain's behaviour makes sense to me (of course, some of it reaaaally doesn't).

It's also a fundamental difference on how I view Alistair through the rest of the game   I generally dislike his behaviour throughout, whether he's hardened or not, and I find him waaaaaaaaay too sentimental as a friend  *or* romance option to tolerate.  Also, I hate Arl Eamon and like to do everything I can (on certain playthroughs) to make him very, very angry.

To me, Zevran has more class (if you can get past the first impression of him just being a total skank, which I didn't first time through XD) and layers. He is also practical, doesn't bring up personal things when it's unnecessary and he doesn't whine, even if it's meant to be "cute".  That is more appealing to me than anything Alistair displays.   Of course it's personal preference; people like Alistair just annoy me. A lot. Some people like Alistairs. Some people hate me. Some people like me. It is the way it goes.

Part of my hate is due to the fact that he is so incredibly irritating (to me), but at the heart of it you can't deny that he's a good person, which makes you feel horrible for hating him. It's like punching a puppy in the face even if they bit your leg off first.

@TeenZombie , Loghain might not show immediate remorse, but he shows immediate respect when you beat him. And he also accepts death with more grace and dignity than Alistair does in refusing Loghain into the GWs.

Modifié par Huojin, 16 mars 2010 - 04:54 .

[Sannox]

errant_knight wrote...

Sannox wrote...

I haven't played through the full Alistair romance, so I can't comment on the whole thing, but it seemed to me that he was more difficult to romance both in terms of getting him into bed and getting him to fall in love. I thought he was flirting at the beginning until I played through as a male and found out that he was just being friendly. His view of sex IS sullied, unfortunately, so you don't have that obvious way of connecting with him early on. He also falls in love less easily (from what I have seen. Maybe if I played the whole thing through I would have a different view and it's possible that he falls for the warden much earlier than I thought)

Well, no. This just isn't so. He starts to fall for the PC right away (you can get dialogue to indicate this as you go into Redcliffe at times), but the relationship can't progress until you do his personal quest. So it kind of stops for a quest or two. His view of sex is actually the opposite of sullied. He thinks it's important and meaninful, not a casual thing.--and you have the same way to connect with him that we generally connect with people whom we aren't having sex with. You can talk to him. '

Maybe 'sullied' is the wrong word.  I was trying to think of something that I could apply to both Zevran and Alistair's view of sex and love.   But his view of sex is definitely not as pure as Zevran's.  He approves of sex in particular circumstances, but mainly disapproves.  He admits that's due to his upbringing.  (There's an interesting contrast with Leliana, who has spent time in the Chantry but has a different take on it).    

The problem with needing certain events to pass means that by the time my character offered tent time, they were well into a 'relationship' of sorts.  They'd been through a lot together and she'd comforted him, found his mother's amulet, taken him to Denerim to see his sister, etc, and she thought they were a team.   She couldn't connect with him through talking, because he was all talked out. 

What moved him that stage further was giving him gifts.  Suggesting the tent again makes him disapprove - it's very much about his needs and not yours at that point.  Giving him gifts mean he will sleep with you, even if he initially disapproved (which was a little off-putting!). 

It's an interesting twist on the idea of the virginal heroine who has to be wooed - with the sexes reversed.  I do think he's a well written, well-rounded character. 

(Neither Zevran or Alistair wil sleep with the warden right away.    Zevran does seem to be careful to establish that the PC is interested - even when the option comes up, he doesn't jump at the requests, but makes sure it's what he thinks it is.)

[Cuddlezarro]

Ejoslin wrote...



Zevran sure does, unless you pass a persuade check.

I got a big approval hit from Zevran when i tried talking about the Dalish elves after massacring them so why you do lose out on the initial minus approval he still isnt happy about it and makes it clear when you ask him what he thinks of them