445 réponses à ce sujet

[EpicBoot2daFace]

As much as BioWare wants to make Hawke a very important and influential character in the Dragon Age universe, I'm just not seeing it. From my perspective, Hawke didn't really do anything important and just felt like he or she was along for the ride.

On the other hand, the Warden unified Ferelden that was engaged in civil war, stopped the Blight, rebuilt the Grey Wardens in Ferelden, chose the next king of Orzamar, and so on. If anything, I would say that the Warden is a far more important and influential character than Hawke could ever be.

What are your thoughts?

[MichaelStuart]

Cassandra believed that Hawk was responsible for starting the Mage/Templar war, if this opinion is shared most people in Thedas, than Hawk will be likely be thought of as important, even if its not deserved.

[King Cousland]

They aren't important at all in my opinion. In fact, the Hawkes could have died in Lothering, or be eliminated from the story completely and DA II wouldn't have ended any differently. 

[Dutchess]

Hawke did stop the Qunari invasion before it got even more out of hand. And that's the only thing he/she can truly be accounted for, except for helping companions and Feynriel.

[Rogue Unit]

Everything the Warden does takes places in some backwater country no one cares about. Who cares who is the king of Orzamar? Who cares (besides other Wardens) about a blight that never reached them? Who care that The Warden saved Redcliffe from walking corpses? Only people that live in Ferelden would seriously give two ****s about Bhelen being king of a bunch of recluses.

The only thing significant that the Warden did that other people in Thedas really be interested in would be discovering Andaste's Ashes.
What do you think people are more likely to talk about for years to come: How Hawke started a world wide revolution that crippled one of the most powerful and influential organizations in Thedas or how the Warden picked the next king of Orzamar.

Modifié par Rogue Unit, 25 août 2012 - 10:04 .

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Rogue Unit wrote...

Everything the Warden does takes places in some backwater country no one cares about. Who cares who is the king of Orzamar? Who cares (besides other Wardens) about a blight that never reached them? Who care that The Warden saved Redcliffe from walking corpses? Only people that live in Ferelden would seriously give two ****s about Bhelen being king of a bunch of recluses.

The only thing significant that the Warden did that other people in Thedas really be interested in would be discovering Andaste's Ashes.
What do you think people are more likely to talk about for years to come: How Hawke started a world wide revolution that crippled one of the most powerful and influential organizations in Thedas or how the Warden picked the next king of Orzamar.

He didn't. It would have happened with or without Hawke.

[King Cousland]

renjility wrote...

Hawke did stop the Qunari invasion before it got even more out of hand. And that's the only thing he/she can truly be accounted for, except for helping companions and Feynriel.

IMHO, Meredith and the city guard could have successfully defeated the Qunari but I can understand that many would see that as debateable. 

[thats1evildude]

I could write an essay about what would change if Hawke never made it to Kirkwall, but I can sum it up in three points:

1) Most of DA2's companions would be dead, or worse.

2) The qunari would have succeeded in taking over Kirkwall, which in all likelihood would lead to another continet-wide qunari invasion.

3) The Mage-Templar war would never happen, ensuring that the continuation of the status quo for decades.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 25 août 2012 - 10:21 .

[King Cousland]

Rogue Unit wrote...

Everything the Warden does takes places in some backwater country no one cares about. Who cares who is the king of Orzamar? Who cares (besides other Wardens) about a blight that never reached them? Who care that The Warden saved Redcliffe from walking corpses? Only people that live in Ferelden would seriously give two ****s about Bhelen being king of a bunch of recluses.

The only thing significant that the Warden did that other people in Thedas really be interested in would be discovering Andaste's Ashes.
What do you think people are more likely to talk about for years to come: How Hawke started a world wide revolution that crippled one of the most powerful and influential organizations in Thedas or how the Warden picked the next king of Orzamar.

You think the Blight would have stayed contained to Ferelden? Even if that were the case, the Warden saved millions by their actions. Also, the dwarves are a huge Thedosian trading power, and control the entire supply of lyrium. Hawke did very little apart from repel the Qunari.

[Emzamination]

Well Hawke defeated the Arishok and chose a side to champion in the war, granted she didn't ignite the war to begin with...

[thats1evildude]

King Cousland wrote...

IMHO, Meredith and the city guard could have successfully defeated the Qunari but I can understand that many would see that as debateable.

Very debatable. Even if you ignore the fact that the qunari had already slaughtered much of the city guard, Hawke's absence still impacts the battle.

Let's suppose that Flemeth had passed by the field at Lothering that day and Hawke had never made it to Kirkwall, having died on the field in battle against wave after wave of darkspawn. Aveline would have never made it to Kirkwall, leaving Jeven in his current position. Under Jeven's leadership, the guard would be much weaker.

Without Hawke, Tarohne would have continued capturing templars and transforming them into abominations. Eventually, she would have done immense damage to the templar order, greatly weakening them.

Sister Petrice would have succeeded with her plot in Shepherding Wolves and various subsequent plots; thus, the qunari invasion would have occured a lot sooner. This is bad because, over the years, the qunari forces lost a number of men; if they had tried to take over sooner, they would never have incurred those losses.

And Hawke would not have been there to defeat the Arishok (or turn over Isabela, as some choose to do). The Arishok was the lynchpin of the qunari forces; without him, the invasion falls apart.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 25 août 2012 - 10:25 .

[King Cousland]

thats1evildude wrote...

I could write an essay about what would change if Hawke never made it to Kirkwall, but I can sum it up in three points:

1) Most of DA2's companions would be dead, or worse.

2) The qunari would have succeeded in taking over Kirkwall, which in all likelihood would lead to another continet-wide qunari invasion.

3) The Mage-Templar war would never have happened, ensuring that the continuation of the status quo for decades.

I agree that most of the companions would be dead, but would that really matter? The only impact of that that I can see is Cassandra not having access to a lead which turned out to be a dead end anyway.

I see no reason why the MTW would not have been sparked. Anders would have stuck to his plan as Hawke did nothing to help him avoid either death or capture by the templars. 

[thats1evildude]

Anders would have been killed by the templars during the meeting with Karl at the Chantry. He only survived because Hawke's group was there to lend assistance.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 25 août 2012 - 10:31 .

[King Cousland]

thats1evildude wrote...

Anders would have been killed by the templars during the meeting with Karl at the Chantry. He only survived because Hawke's group was there to lend assistance.

And he only went in the first place because Hawke agreed to help him. 

[thats1evildude]

No, he would likely have gone anyway, since the entire point of him coming to Kirkwall (aside from dodging the Grey Wardens) was to rescue Karl.

In addition, had the qunari successfully taken over Kirkwall, the crisis in Act 3 would never have occured. Meredith would have died fighting the qunari, along with the rest of the templars, and they would have either killed or rendered all of Kirkwall's mages into saarebas. Grand Cleric Elthina would also likely have died or been turned into a mindless labourer, as she would refuse to give up her faith.

Also, had Hawke never recovered the lyrium idol, then Meredith's paranoia would not have been so pronounced in Act 3.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 25 août 2012 - 10:43 .

[King Cousland]

thats1evildude wrote...

No, he would have gone anyway. But he did fear an ambush, which is exactly what happened.

In addition, had the qunari successfully taken over Kirkwall, the crisis in Act 3 would never have occured. Meredith would likely have died fighting the qunari and they would have either killed or rendered all of Kirkwall's mages into mindless slaves. Grand Cleric Elthina would also likely have died or been turned into a mindless labourer, as she would refuse to give up her faith.

I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree on the first point. 

Even if the Qunari had proved victorious, then a war which has and will claim the lives of thousands would have been averted. 

[thats1evildude]

King Cousland wrote...

Even if the Qunari had proved victorious, then a war which has and will claim the lives of thousands would have been averted.

I don't see the Mage-Templar war as necessarily a bad thing, even from a pro-Templar perspective. The Circle of Magi system was slowly coming apart. Better for mages and templars to fight it out and decide once and for all whether mages will be allowed to live as free as other men.

And had the qunari been victorious, my belief is that it would have jump-started the qunari invasion of all Thedas.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 25 août 2012 - 10:45 .

[King Cousland]

thats1evildude wrote...

King Cousland wrote...

Even if the Qunari had proved victorious, then a war which has and will claim the lives of thousands would have been averted.

I don't see the Mage-Templar war as necessarily a bad thing, even from a pro-Templar perspective. The Circle of Magi system was slowly coming apart. Better for mages and templars to fight it out and decide once and for all whether mages will be allowed to live as free as other men.

And had the qunari been victorious, my belief is that it would have jump-started the qunari invasion of all Thedas.

I don't want to turn this into a mages vs. templars thread, but even if the result of the war is a mage victory, that doesn't instantly eliminate people's prejudices. Mages would still be stigmatised and bullied for decades, even more so since it'll be seen that mages started a war that killed scores of innocents. 

[Jerrybnsn]

Hawke fled. Twice. Brave, brave Ser Hawke.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 25 août 2012 - 11:04 .

[Tommyspa]

Anders, I can't see lasting long without Hawke. He is given a pass and plot armor because of Hawke from Act 2 on. Meredith and her templars won't give Anders the freedom that comes with Hawke's connections. And you could easily say Anders could die or be captured in near all of his personal quests. Either because of Karl in the chantry or during Dissent after running into a horde of templars. So what is stopping Anders from blowing the chantry sooner? Nothing really, except the human in him. He isn't broken as a person due to Justice until 6 years after he gets to Kirkwall, ample time for him to flee or die/be captured. You also cannot deny that Anders uses Hawke as motivation for his actions in all his outcomes, either Hawke is his pillar of strength in friendship, a polarizing force in rivalry or someone to prove himself again to if you kick him out after Dissent.

I have trouble seeing Hawke as useless to the Dragon Age world when his level of influence and connections stretch pretty far. Reputation is a hell of a thing.

[Realmzmaster]

The assumption is that the warden is necessary to stop the Blight. Flemeth could have just as easy saved only Alistair and he would have to unite the land and defeat the Archdemon. In fact the whole game could have had the gamer controlling Alistair just like Hawke.

If you like DAO and the warden that is fine. If you like DA2 and Hawke that is fine. If you like both that is fine.
The Warden is important. Hawke is important for different reasons. Many people throughout real history are important some more so than others. But at that time. In that place Hawke was important rightly or wrongly. The figure is important if others think he/she is important to the events that unfold.

[The Elder King]

Realmzmaster wrote...

The assumption is that the warden is necessary to stop the Blight. Flemeth could have just as easy saved only Alistair and he would have to unite the land and defeat the Archdemon. In fact the whole game could have had the gamer controlling Alistair just like Hawke.

If you like DAO and the warden that is fine. If you like DA2 and Hawke that is fine. If you like both that is fine.
The Warden is important. Hawke is important for different reasons. Many people throughout real history are important some more so than others. But at that time. In that place Hawke was important rightly or wrongly. The figure is important if others think he/she is important to the events that unfold.

I agree with you, though Hawke wasn't "the most important person in Dragon Age" as the marketing claimed. Though it seems that his actions were amplified, and that people in Thedas don't know well what really happened. As others said, Cassandra thought Hawke was directly involved in the actions that lead to the war, and that he was planning this from the moment he arrived in Kirkwall.

About Alistair and the Warden, though, Bioware somehow explained what would've happened without the Warden with the Darkspawn Chronicles dlc. In the end, the Warden was better than Alistair .

Modifié par hhh89, 25 août 2012 - 11:26 .

[Tommyspa]

hhh89 wrote...

About Alistair and the Warden, though, Bioware somehow explained what would've happened without the Warden with the Darkspawn Chronicles dlc. In the end, the Warden was better than Alistair .

Lol, Alistair forgot to play dress up with his friends to improve thier chances. He did apparently get it on with Leliana though. So, +1 Alistair.

[thats1evildude]

Tommyspa wrote...

So what is stopping Anders from blowing the chantry sooner?

Anders' end goal was never simply to blow up the Chantry, or else he could indeed have done it sooner. What he wanted was mage freedom, and that was best accomplished by open conflict between the mages and the templars. If he had planted his bomb in Act  1 or  Act 2, it wouldn't have had the same impact; the incident would likely have been played off as the actions of a madman. But by Act 3, circumstances were ripe: Meredith was ruling the city, she'd been driven insane by the idol and the only person holding her in check was Elthina.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 25 août 2012 - 11:46 .

[The Elder King]

Tommyspa wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

About Alistair and the Warden, though, Bioware somehow explained what would've happened without the Warden with the Darkspawn Chronicles dlc. In the end, the Warden was better than Alistair .

Lol, Alistair forgot to play dress up with his friends to improve thier chances. He did apparently get it on with Leliana though. So, +1 Alistair.

Well, at least he didn't die as a virgin .