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[Sylvianus]

That was not because the Qunari are strong giants that they were so dangerous.That was their technology and their faith contaminating other people in many countries that gave their advantage over humans in the past.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 30 août 2012 - 11:07 .

[thats1evildude]

coles4971 wrote...

All this talk about invincible Qunari makes me wish we actually saw that in game.

All I saw were some dudes throwing spears and getting turned in to lego bricks by my countless AoE attacks.

Well, as strong as the qunari were, they were still no match for Hawke's group. That's why the qunari would win if Hawke wasn't there.

[Heimdall]

Sylvianus wrote...

That was not because the Qunari are strong giants that they were so dangerous.That was their technology and their faith contaminating other people in many countries that gave their advantage over humans in the past.

To be fair, their faith seemed to be having that effect on Kirkwall by the time of the battle.  They also learned to give their mages an admittedly limited role in battle, something they did not use to do in those old battles.

The Qunari are strong giants and that alone doesn't say much but also consider that only a very limited number of the actual fighters in Kirkwall have any experience fighting them.  They, on the other hand, have plenty of experience fighting humans and their mages thanks to Tervinter.  There is practical and psychological aspect to consider there.

[Sylvianus]

thats1evildude wrote...


Where do you get the idea that they were better armed and better equipped? It's true that their cannons gave them an advantage in the Qunari wars, but that's when it came to be-sieging cities. I've never seen anything that suggests qunari are better at making armour and weapons than humans.

This is not hard to believe. Their utilitarian and militaristic system gives them incredible advances in all areas that may be useful to conquer lands, dominate or exterminate other people who bother them. ( poison, canon are good examples )They overlook anything.  Human armies gathered almost certainly have been completely different with their equipment in different countries. Some fairly well equipped, others in rags. The Qunari surely prepared their armies since a long time because they wanted to make war for their faith against all other countries. There were probably no similar systems as aggressive with the humans surprised, less prepared to this scale. In any case, I doubt the Qunari were half naked at that time lol.

The Qunari certainly wouldn't have decided to invade Thedas without preparing first. As Sten, they had to be sent lots of scouts and spies to assess their military value, their advanced technology, and all the valuable information the qunari could gather. If they do not feel ready, they certainly would not try.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 31 août 2012 - 12:56 .

[Sylvianus]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

That was not because the Qunari are strong giants that they were so dangerous.That was their technology and their faith contaminating other people in many countries that gave their advantage over humans in the past.

To be fair, their faith seemed to be having that effect on Kirkwall by the time of the battle.  They also learned to give their mages an admittedly limited role in battle, something they did not use to do in those old battles.

The Qunari are strong giants and that alone doesn't say much but also consider that only a very limited number of the actual fighters in Kirkwall have any experience fighting them.  They, on the other hand, have plenty of experience fighting humans and their mages thanks to Tervinter.  There is practical and psychological aspect to consider there.

True. Like I said, there could be many victims, because the threat was real and strong, I do not deny that. But I do not think without Hawk, the city is doomed. The real difference for me is that he saved the nobles. Without any doubt, without him, they would die. ( Meredith wouldn't give a damn about them. )

[Alexander1136]

 There was a whole thing on this when DA2 came out due to claims that he would "change the world" or "be the most important person in thedas" I called BS due to the fact that main story wise he was just along for the ride and his choices didn't matter.  

The warden has the OGB, beat flemeth in dragon form, saved/slaughted elves, defeated a tower full of demons, escaped the fade, stopped two civil wars ect. While the DLC for hawke adds some interesting angles with potential and his bloodline but they are   "done with da2" and seeing as we are getting a new protaganist i would imagine hawke is basically done as well. 

I feel like the warden is awesome and a huge influence in the realm of thedas, whenever I play dragon age I don't feel like me unless I'm my warden. 

[Heimdall]

Sylvianus wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

That was not because the Qunari are strong giants that they were so dangerous.That was their technology and their faith contaminating other people in many countries that gave their advantage over humans in the past.

To be fair, their faith seemed to be having that effect on Kirkwall by the time of the battle.  They also learned to give their mages an admittedly limited role in battle, something they did not use to do in those old battles.

The Qunari are strong giants and that alone doesn't say much but also consider that only a very limited number of the actual fighters in Kirkwall have any experience fighting them.  They, on the other hand, have plenty of experience fighting humans and their mages thanks to Tervinter.  There is practical and psychological aspect to consider there.

True. Like I said, there could be many victims, because the threat was real and strong, I do not deny that. But I do not think without Hawk, the city is doomed. The real difference for me is that he saved the nobles. Without any doubt, without him, they would die. ( Meredith wouldn't give a damn about them. )

True, and I don't believe the city would be doomed, but the incident would certainly have been much messier without Hawke.  The Qunari could have won, but that would have likely resulted in an exalted march, the face of Thedas would be shifted more toward the conflict with the Qunari than the mages and the Templars..  I'm just saying that the entire outcome is very much in question had Hawke not been there.

[Sylvianus]

Indeed, I agree.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 31 août 2012 - 12:13 .

[Renmiri1]

Alexander1136 wrote...

 There was a whole thing on this when DA2 came out due to claims that he would "change the world" or "be the most important person in thedas" I called BS due to the fact that main story wise he was just along for the ride and his choices didn't matter.  

The warden has the OGB, beat flemeth in dragon form, saved/slaughted elves, defeated a tower full of demons, escaped the fade, stopped two civil wars ect. While the DLC for hawke adds some interesting angles with potential and his bloodline but they are   "done with da2" and seeing as we are getting a new protaganist i would imagine hawke is basically done as well. 

I feel like the warden is awesome and a huge influence in the realm of thedas, whenever I play dragon age I don't feel like me unless I'm my warden. 

A lot of people feel this way

Problem is.. How can you feel like that again, after you ended the blight ? You need a new blight to feel epic ? Another civil war ? Crowning another king on an ancient kingdom ? Discovering another sacred relic ?

You are in luck, it seems Orlais is going into civil war after Asunder and Hawke and Anders started the Mage / Templar war. Also it seems someone tore the veils all over Thedas so we will not have a blight with an army of darkspawn comming from the ground but we will have an army of demons pouring from the veil rips.. I'm sure the writers will cook up some sacred relic for us to find and a king for us to crown too.

To me is a bit repetitive but meh..

If I get some nice well written nuanced characters and I get to see some cameos from Hawke and his gang, I'm a happy camper. 

Modifié par Renmiri1, 31 août 2012 - 12:28 .

[Adanu]

Sylvianus wrote...

Qunari Rebellion =/ Qunari invasion.

One hundred Qunari locked and monitored in an area of ​​the lower town of Kirkwall.

Meredith, the templars, Orsino, the circle (thousand mages) would eventually crush them in the end. Hawk only prevented the nobles to be killed, has simply reduced the number of deaths. It's really an exaggeration to say that without him, the city would not have been saved.

The Qunari are incredible planners and have tons of converts. They went right for the leadership and would have crippled Kirkwall right from the start is Hawke and company weren't there. That, plus *more* people converting to the Qun by force as the war raged on would have made it a lot bloodier.
Didn't you notice Meredith and Orsino were at each others throats instantly when they met? That sort of division in leadership didn't help either.

BrotherWarth wrote...

That's not at all possible. It was one boat of Qunari with no support.

It was a fleet, not a boat. The Viscount himself says if they wanted to take Kirkwall there would be no stopping them. They actually are that powerful.

This is getting ridiculous. People are cherrypicking little things and claiming Hawke didn't need to be around because of it.

PAY ATTENTION TO THE WHOLE DAMN GAME, NOT JUST THE PARTS THAT LOOK LIKE THEY SUPPORT YOUR BIAS.

[Sylvianus]

[quote]Adanu wrote...

[quote]Sylvianus wrote...

Qunari Rebellion =/ Qunari invasion.

One hundred Qunari locked and monitored in an area of ​​the lower town of Kirkwall.

Meredith, the templars, Orsino, the circle (thousand mages) would eventually crush them in the end. Hawk only prevented the nobles to be killed, has simply reduced the number of deaths. It's really an exaggeration to say that without him, the city would not have been saved.[/quote]

The Qunari are incredible planners and have tons of converts. They went right for the leadership and would have crippled Kirkwall right from the start is Hawke and company weren't there.
[/quote][/quote]
The Qunari had the surprise, that's why it worked so much. And indeed they had a few allies. But they were clearly at a disadvantage in equipment and especially number. They had no ability to control the city. They had no poisons to weaken the humans and no artillery either. And mages and templars both strong fighters too, would eventually agree to defend Kirkwall actually.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Without Hawk, Orsino would be dead anyway, so no competition for the leadership. And no one would argue at all with Meredith about the strategy to follow.

Mages know that the Qunari hate them, are merciless against them, they are also killed, and Meredith would never let her city defeated without figthing first, the templars following her. They were all affected and concerned by the Qunari threat during the attack. Internal disagreements are nothing compared to the desire to eradicate a common enemy that is currently attacking the same home, the same city, killing everyone.

At worst, the Qunari would have killed all the nobles as hostages, but they wouldn't have destroyed nor controlled the city. ( or only at the beginning of the attack. ) They needed reinforcements to achieve this end. Hawk only precipitated the end of their premeditated attack, quickly ended the war before it truly begins actually.

We only attended the first act of war, started by the Qunari, we haven't had the opportunity to see the defenders to organize themself, gathered, and to respond to this threat that surprised them. So I do not know how you can claim such a thing.

A few hours is not enough to estimate if the victory during a war is gained or not. Unless everyone was wiped out, which is not the case at all. ( In act 3 we have a bloody conflict in all the city between the templars and the mages... ) Kirkwall's forces simply did not have time to react in time in the game.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 01 septembre 2012 - 12:38 .

[Fredward]

Not particularly and I don't even mind.

[Adanu]

I'm just going to say I disagree completely You actually think that any Qunari would be at a disadvantage on equipment with the way their society, and therefore supply lines, work? These aren't mercenaries who have to get by on what they can buy... these are rigid, militaristic warriors who do not accept anything but the best. Sten himself said that if a warrior loses their weapon they are forfeit pretty much.

You're reaching for a lack of logistics that simply isn't there.

Modifié par Adanu, 31 août 2012 - 09:16 .

[Sylvianus]

It's ridiculous to think that some half naked giants are almost invincible in a fight without their armor against highly skilled warriors like the Templars ( also heavily equipped ) + powerful mages much more numerous than them ... I don't know where some of you get the idea that a naked qunari was a god. That's just a legend.

The qunari bleed, can be ruptured by swords. They can be reached by arrows. They can also fear magic ( especially elements. Like fire that devours particularly the naked flesh ... )

Modifié par Sylvianus, 01 septembre 2012 - 12:38 .

[JohnCena94]

King Cousland wrote...

They aren't important at all in my opinion. In fact, the Hawkes could have died in Lothering, or be eliminated from the story completely and DA II wouldn't have ended any differently. 

I would argue against that simply because of Anders.  If Anders had been alone things could have gone in a different direction.  Plus the Quanari might have been able to win, but that is questionable.  I would argue Hawke just played a very minor role and pretty much just hanged out with people who made things happen.

[Adanu]

Whatever, it's obvious peoples biases against DA2 in this thread are making cherrypicking blatant.

Done in here. I'm not looking to argue with brick walls who won't accept information outside their grudge.

[Lotion Soronarr]

The quanri couldn't have won. Period.

The reson they got as far as they did was because tehy already were in the city and launched a surprise attack.
They were underequipped and SEVERELY outnumbered. There were probably more mages alone than qunari and would have stomped them. That's without taking into acount all the templars and the rest of the city guard, and other volonteers.
Yes they are big and strong. So what? A swrod or arrow hurt them just as much.

Don't you get it? The Arishok made a suicide run. He was fed up with the city. He'd rather die fighting then wait more.

[Realmzmaster]

BrotherWarth wrote...

Adanu wrote...

I'm just going to say I disagree completely You actually think that any Qunari would be at a disadvantage on equipment with the way their society, and therefore supply lines, work? These aren't mercenaries who have to get by on what they can buy... these are rigid, militaristic warriors who do not accept anything but the best. Sten himself said that if a warrior loses their weapon they are forfeit pretty much.

You're reaching for a lack of logistics that simply isn't there.

The logistics of the matter is that their forces were diminishing for 3 years due to defection. They started as just a few hundred and at least a few dozen defected. You must kill at least 50-60 defectors in Acts 1 & 2 and those are just the ones that stuck around the city to cause trouble. We saw, what, 20 Elvish Qunari converts? Not enough to replenish their losses. Factor in the sheer number of Templars, who are highly skilled warriors trained to kill much deadlier foes, a well-oiled city guard that, while admittedly stretched thin, is run by a more-than-capable Captain, and a Circle full of mages and the Qunari never stood a chance.

There are not as many templars as you say. Meredith when you meet her has to go find the rest of the templars.  Even Cullen remarks if Hawke talks to him that their numbers are decreasing because recruitment is way down. The Qunari decimated the city guard in the surprise attack. Aveline states herself when at the Keep I do not see any of my guard. There are countless guard bodies littering the ground. The Carta dwarves even pitch in the try and stop the Qunari. The Qunari kill all the mages except Orsino and Bethany (if she is in the Circle).

The Qunari have fought the templars before in the Exalted Marches the templars were barely able to push them back and that required the help of the other nations. The Qunari are a well-oiled army. A discplined force can defeat a much greater force in numbers. The templars, mages and city guard cannot even decide who would lead them. They would not be a cohesive force.

As Alexander the Great stated I would rather fight a hundred lions lead by a sheep than fight hundred sheep lead by a lion. The Qunari have both leadership and might which is why the surprise attack was so successful. The Arishok took the time to plan and make use of the force he had.

Would the Qunari have won maybe not, but the Arishok would make sure than any victory by his enemy would be very costly.  As far as the Qunari are concern Ataash varin kata ( in the end lies glory.).

[Renmiri1]

Doesn't a handful of Qunary hold a stalemate with all Thedas kingdoms for decades ? The Roman Empire conquered many lands and many places just by using their superior discipline and tactics. Outside of Rome and vicinity the Roman conquering forces were always outnumbered but they made up for that with solid battle tactics and skilled soldiers.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Renmiri1 wrote...
Doesn't a handful of Qunary hold a stalemate with all Thedas kingdoms for decades ?

No.
People should stop worshiping the qunari.. it's getting redicolous.

[Sylvianus]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Don't you get it? The Arishok made a suicide run. He was fed up with the city. He'd rather die fighting then wait more.

Exactly.

The Arishok was angry, desperate, after all provocations suffered years after years. He launched a devastating charge, to avenge the humiliation caused by humans, whatever the cost.

And please, do not take the example of Rome which had the resources and consistently supported by logistical support  ( And this is also why they had superiority over barbarians ) during its campaigns of war to talk about the poor qunari in Kirkwall who have nothing except their swords.  Thank you for paying attention to what is happening in the city and not to delve into delusions legendary.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 01 septembre 2012 - 07:21 .

[Adanu]

Sylvianus wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Don't you get it? The Arishok made a suicide run. He was fed up with the city. He'd rather die fighting then wait more.

Exactly.

The Arishok was angry, desperate, after all provocations suffered years after years. He launched a devastating charge, to avenge the humiliation caused by humans, whatever the cost.

And please, do not take the example of Rome which had the resources and consistently supported by logistical support  ( And this is also why they had superiority over barbarians ) during its campaigns of war to talk about the poor qunari in Kirkwall who have nothing except their swords.  Thank you for paying attention to what is happening in the city and not to delve into delusions legendary.

The Airshok consistantly lied about his intentions. What makes you think he was telling the truth about their supplies and their numbers?

Seriously people, think.