445 réponses à ce sujet

[Spicen]

Sylvianus wrote...

Merlex wrote...
If Hawk wasn't there, Petrice could be a blood stain in lowtown.

You don't know that. I'm fairly certain she could have convinced those guys to work for her.

Meredith alerted by the tension might have forgotten the mages ( at that time it wasn't yet so hot, she wasn't so obsessed ) and Orsino relieved of this diversion could be volunteer to demonstrate that the Mages were people reliable and useful.

As you stated in another post, without Hawk, Orsino would be dead. And like i previously stated, the Templars would have had their own problems.

Orsino wouldn't be dead during act 1. Petrice was already acting at that time. If it wasn't hawk, the guy chosen wouldn't have succeeded to save himself and the mage qunari.

Hey man relax why so serious?

[Sylvianus]

Excuse me, what are you talking about ?

[Spicen]

Sylvianus wrote...

Excuse me, what are you talking about ?

I have seen reading and seen you making comment after comment without replies.

P.S: Dont expect to convince anyone unless they want they want to be convinced. Speaking from experience.

[Sylvianus]

Spicen wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Excuse me, what are you talking about ?

I have seen reading and seen you making comment after comment without replies.

P.S: Dont expect to convince anyone unless they want they want to be convinced. Speaking from experience.

It is precisely because several people answered me that I had to make several responses.

And I don't need to convince anyone, don't worry. We are discussing.

[Spicen]

Sylvianus wrote...

Spicen wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Excuse me, what are you talking about ?

I have seen reading and seen you making comment after comment without replies.

P.S: Dont expect to convince anyone unless they want they want to be convinced. Speaking from experience.

It is precisely because several people answered me that I had to make several responses.

And I don't need to convince anyone, don't worry. We are discussing.

Oh good then. Im just a passenger like Hawke, here to read the good stuff while you discuss. Addio.

[Merlex]

Sylvianus wrote...

Merlex wrote...
If Hawk wasn't there, Petrice could be a blood stain in lowtown.

You don't know that. I'm fairly certain she could have convinced those guys to work for her.

No, i don't know that, which is why i said could. In response to a part of your post that said, "she could have succeeded in her plans".

I'm curious though, why do you think that she could have convinced those guys to work for her? They didn't seem like they wanted work, just a quick buck.

As you stated in another post, without Hawk, Orsino would be dead. And like i previously stated, the Templars would have had their own problems.

Orsino wouldn't be dead during act 1. Petrice was already acting at that time. If it wasn't hawk, those hired by Petrice may have not succeeded with the mage qunari as she expected it.  But my point was that we could just assume a lot of things without Hawk, whether it is positive or negative.

Well, we really don't know do we? It's the butterfly effect. We don't know how it would have ended up. All we can do is speculate.

[Merlex]

Sylvianus wrote...

Spicen wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Excuse me, what are you talking about ?

I have seen reading and seen you making comment after comment without replies.

P.S: Dont expect to convince anyone unless they want they want to be convinced. Speaking from experience.

It is precisely because several people answered me that I had to make several responses.

Yes, i was responding to a reply you made to my post. That post was (on page 14) to show BrotherWarth, that he failed to take in to account several possible facters in his theory on the Qunari attack.

And I don't need to convince anyone, don't worry. We are discussing.

Discussing is fun. For the record, i haven't been convinced one way or the other.

[Rawgrim]

No matter what Hawke did, things ended up the way they did anyway. So I don`t consider him important at all. He was just present when they happened. Anders is probably alot more important, to be honest.

[Renmiri1]

Anders attributes his sanity to Hawke. Hawke is also the only reason he stays. He would have succumbed to Justice. But Justice has no concept of tactics, strategy or patience.

Anders would have self destructed in a frontal attack to a Circle somewhere in Ferelden, dying in a blaze of glory like Decimus, Tahrone or other possessed mage. Hawke gave him the needed stability to work on his cause for years, and to do a strike when it achieved his goal.

Modifié par Renmiri1, 02 septembre 2012 - 11:24 .

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

The quanri couldn't have won. Period.

The reson they got as far as they did was because tehy already were in the city and launched a surprise attack.
They were underequipped and SEVERELY outnumbered. There were probably more mages alone than qunari and would have stomped them. That's without taking into acount all the templars and the rest of the city guard, and other volonteers.
Yes they are big and strong. So what? A swrod or arrow hurt them just as much.

Don't you get it? The Arishok made a suicide run. He was fed up with the city. He'd rather die fighting then wait more.

I don't know. The city always looked pretty empty to me.

[Wulfram]

Anders does exactly the same thing even if Hawke was totally rude to him, ignored him after he's given her what she needed to get to the deep roads and then told him to go away 3 years later.

[Renmiri1]

Wulfram wrote...

Anders does exactly the same thing even if Hawke was totally rude to him, ignored him after he's given her what she needed to get to the deep roads and then told him to go away 3 years later.

Interesting.. I don't think you can actually get rid of companions with this new loyalty system of DA2. At best you rate high on rivalry

[Tommyspa]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Anders does exactly the same thing even if Hawke was totally rude to him, ignored him after he's given her what she needed to get to the deep roads and then told him to go away 3 years later.

Interesting.. I don't think you can actually get rid of companions with this new loyalty system of DA2. At best you rate high on rivalry

You can kick both Anders and Fenris out of your party after recruiting them. Isabela has a chance of never coming back after stealling the tome. Though there are still party members that you are locked into.

[thats1evildude]

Merlex wrote...

If Hawk wasn't there, Petrice could be a blood stain in lowtown.

Unlikely. She had that templar bodyguard watching out for her, and having fought both that guy and the mooks who tried to rob her, I would give that fight to Ser Varnell. That ****er was tough.

[Merlex]

thats1evildude wrote...

Merlex wrote...

If Hawk wasn't there, Petrice could be a blood stain in lowtown.

Unlikely. She had that templar bodyguard watching out for her, and having fought both that guy and the mooks who tried to rob her, I would give that fight to Ser Varnell. That ****er was tough.

Varnell was in the shadows. The lowtown thugs were all around Petrice. A knife to a vital spot and... But we never got to know what talents, if any, Petrice had.

You have to read my statement in context. It was in response to a post that stated: If Hawk wasn't there, Petrice could have succeeded in her plans. I said that: If Hawk wasn't there, Petrice could be a blood stain in lowtown. But Hawk was there, so all we can do is speculate about possible outcomes without his presense.

edit: Oh and Varnell was a bad**s. But his follower coming out of the woodwork, is what made that fight tough.

Modifié par Merlex, 03 septembre 2012 - 07:48 .

[Merlex]

Rawgrim wrote...

No matter what Hawke did, things ended up the way they did anyway.

 
Big picture, yes. But that is the fault of the writters. Most choices didn't matter in DA2.

So I don`t consider him important at all. He was just present when they happened.

 
I disagree.

Hawked saved Aveline's life. And though The Way It Should Be is optional (it really shouldn't be), help expose Jeven's corruption. That got Aveline promoted to Captain, thus making the City Guard, much stronger than they would have been otherwise.

He saved Templar Captain Cullen's life. Stopped Tarohne's plot, to plant abominations in the Templar ranks. That plot would have made the Templars much weaker. Not knowing if squadmates would turn into abominations in the middle of a fight, would have spred doubt thoughout their ranks, and weakened the order.

These two events alone, helped the city beat the Qunari. And then there is Black Powder Courtesy, where Hawk saves half of Lowtown.

 

Anders is probably alot more important, to be honest.

To be honest, knowing Ander's personality, he most likely would have died trying to rescue Karl.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Merlex wrote...
I disagree.

Hawked saved Aveline's life. And though The Way It Should Be is optional (it really shouldn't be), help expose Jeven's corruption. That got Aveline promoted to Captain, thus making the City Guard, much stronger than they would have been otherwise.

Would Aveline have survived without Hawke? Who knows. Chances are slim, but it's a big land and one person could slip trough.

He saved Templar Captain Cullen's life. Stopped Tarohne's plot, to plant abominations in the Templar ranks. That plot would have made the Templars much weaker. Not knowing if squadmates would turn into abominations in the middle of a fight, would have spred doubt thoughout their ranks, and weakened the order.

1) Can you say for sure Cullen would have died? He seems more than capable enough.
2) the Templars were already getting suspicious. Not arguing this would have weakened the templars, but in the grand scheme of things, a few templars aren't that much.

[Merlex]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Merlex wrote...
I disagree.

Hawked saved Aveline's life. And though The Way It Should Be is optional (it really shouldn't be), help expose Jeven's corruption. That got Aveline promoted to Captain, thus making the City Guard, much stronger than they would have been otherwise.

Would Aveline have survived without Hawke? Who knows. Chances are slim, but it's a big land and one person could slip trough.

He saved Templar Captain Cullen's life. Stopped Tarohne's plot, to plant abominations in the Templar ranks. That plot would have made the Templars much weaker. Not knowing if squadmates would turn into abominations in the middle of a fight, would have spred doubt thoughout their ranks, and weakened the order.

1) Can you say for sure Cullen would have died? He seems more than capable enough.
2) the Templars were already getting suspicious. Not arguing this would have weakened the templars, but in the grand scheme of things, a few templars aren't that much.

I highly doubt that Aveline would have made it. But let's say she did. It was Hawk's mother that suggested Kirkwall. As Flemeth said "Kirkwall? My but that is a long way." I don't think that she would have made her way to Kirkwall even if she survived. Also, take into consideration that it was Gamlin's contacts, that got her into the city.

1. Cullen is a bad**s. But he was alone. There were too many Abominations and Shades to deal with. That fight is no picnic even with Hawk and company.

2. If Hawk hadn't stopped Tarohne, i believe it would have been more than a few Templars. She seemed determined to bring the Templar's down. I'm not saying she would have succeeded, but i think she could have done a lot of damage.

Modifié par Merlex, 04 septembre 2012 - 11:32 .

[Merlex]

BrotherWarth wrote...

Even if you do think Hawke is very important to Thedas, you have to admit that it's not in a direct way. He helped events play out, but never did anything himself to change Thedas.

Little things can have a big effect. Like throwing a rock in the water and watching the ripples. That's how i see Hawk. If you take any one person out of a scenario, and you change millions of variations.

And even if you think he was just as crucial to the mage/Templar conflict as Anders(which I don't see at all)

 
Strawman, i never said. Nor is it my position. But without Hawk, who knows how it would have unfolded with Anders?

it's not as big a deal as the Fifth Blight since DA3 will apparently revolve around a new crisis and not the mage/Templar conflict. So really all DA2 apparently did was set up the events of Asunder and not DA3.
Hawke played a big role in Kirkwall but it's entirely a matter of opinion as to whether or not he changed Thedas.

Well i believe that those who say that the Warden isn't important to Thedas, because he/she stopped the blight early; aren't thinking about the ramifications if he didn't stop it when he/she did.

As for the Mage/Templar war, i believe something else is going on that we don't know about yet. Someone or something is stirring the pot, creating one crisis after another. There were way too many crazy things going on in DA2 to be coincindence.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Merlex wrote...
I highly doubt that Aveline would have made it. But let's say she did. It was Hawk's mother that suggested Kirkwall. As Flemeth said "Kirkwall? My but that is a long way." I don't think that she would have made her way to Kirkwall even if she survived. Also, take into consideration that it was Gamlin's contacts, that got her into the city.

1. Cullen is a bad**s. But he was alone. There were too many Abominations and Shades to deal with. That fight is no picnic even with Hawk and company.

2. If Hawk hadn't stopped Tarohne, i believe it would have been more than a few Templars. She seemed determined to bring the Templar's down. I'm not saying she would have succeeded, but i think she could have done a lot of damage.

I'm jsut saiyng that it impossible know how things would turn out. Butterfly effect.

What I am saying thet Cullen, Aveline and a few templars wouldn't have changed the odds significantly.
The Quanri were SERVERLY outnumbered.

[Merlex]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Merlex wrote...
I highly doubt that Aveline would have made it. But let's say she did. It was Hawk's mother that suggested Kirkwall. As Flemeth said "Kirkwall? My but that is a long way." I don't think that she would have made her way to Kirkwall even if she survived. Also, take into consideration that it was Gamlin's contacts, that got her into the city.

1. Cullen is a bad**s. But he was alone. There were too many Abominations and Shades to deal with. That fight is no picnic even with Hawk and company.

2. If Hawk hadn't stopped Tarohne, i believe it would have been more than a few Templars. She seemed determined to bring the Templar's down. I'm not saying she would have succeeded, but i think she could have done a lot of damage.

I'm jsut saiyng that it impossible know how things would turn out. Butterfly effect.

What I am saying thet Cullen, Aveline and a few templars wouldn't have changed the odds significantly.
The Quanri were SERVERLY outnumbered.

I've been arguing the butterfly effect all along. Take Hawk out and it changes a lot of variables. With Hawk there, the Viscount said that the Qunari would wreck half the city.

Switch out Aveline for Jeven, add in Tarohne's plot, and Kirkwall would have it's hands full. Hawk was just in the right place at the right time, several times. Small actions adding upto big effects. That's what the writters intended.

[Rawgrim]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Merlex wrote...
I highly doubt that Aveline would have made it. But let's say she did. It was Hawk's mother that suggested Kirkwall. As Flemeth said "Kirkwall? My but that is a long way." I don't think that she would have made her way to Kirkwall even if she survived. Also, take into consideration that it was Gamlin's contacts, that got her into the city.

1. Cullen is a bad**s. But he was alone. There were too many Abominations and Shades to deal with. That fight is no picnic even with Hawk and company.

2. If Hawk hadn't stopped Tarohne, i believe it would have been more than a few Templars. She seemed determined to bring the Templar's down. I'm not saying she would have succeeded, but i think she could have done a lot of damage.

I'm jsut saiyng that it impossible know how things would turn out. Butterfly effect.

What I am saying thet Cullen, Aveline and a few templars wouldn't have changed the odds significantly.
The Quanri were SERVERLY outnumbered.

They wern`t that outnumbered. Alot more of them dropped from the sky around Hawke during the battle, after all

[Merlex]

BrotherWarth wrote...

Merlex wrote...

Strawman, i never said. Nor is it my position. But without Hawk, who knows how it would have unfolded with Anders?

My post wasn't directed at you specifically.

Sorry, your post was right after mine.

As for the Mage/Templar war, i believe something else is going on that we don't know about yet. Someone or something is stirring the pot, creating one crisis after another. There were way too many crazy things going on in DA2 to be coincindence.

Someone/something being responsible for what's happening in Thedas is part of the leaked info we have for DA3. Not much of leap on your part...
And everything in Kirkwall was crazy because the veil is so thin there. Demons have an easier time getting their claws into mages, magic is more powerful, people go a little crazier, etc.

Wasn't looking for credit, just discussing it. But i've been saying for some time that there was a big bad(s) responsible, long before any leaks. Found 1 from 3 months ago, i can't remember all the topics i posted it in:

http://social.biowar.../index/12526455 

My post:

I believe that something more sinister is going on. Some 'thing' behind the scenes, is pulling strings. It wanted the Mage/ Templar war to happen. It wants everybody at each other's throats. Divide and conquer.

The statue, Meredith, Orsino, templars being possessed, crazed bloodmages everywhere. I believe these are all connected. We are being setup for an apocalypse.

I agree with your comments about the veil, and i believe it has something to do with all that's been going on. Whether it's something from the veil, or something using the veil as a tool... ?

Modifié par Merlex, 04 septembre 2012 - 07:58 .