445 réponses à ce sujet

[Tommyspa]

Your memory on the number of templars in those fights are quite low, unless you are going by cutscenes alone. In which case, I don't know which to take as canon in storytelling mechanics or not.

Modifié par Tommyspa, 27 août 2012 - 07:30 .

[Renmiri1]

Tommyspa wrote...

Your memory on the number of templars in those fights are quite low, unless you are going by cutscenes alone. In which case, I don't know which to take as canon in storytelling mechanics or not.

Those Templars were there to arrest an apostate mage.

The Wardens and Templars on the short story were there to arrest a Grey Warden, powerful mage, possessed by a demon. A demon and a mage that had fought Broodmothers and the Architect.

Which fight would you take more  people to ?

Justice full force is very deadly. We don't see it on DA2 because Anders holds him back as much as he can. 

[Tommyspa]

@Renmiri1 In the short story he is being escorted by 2 men, killing both I think. And one of the templars got scared and didn't use any templar abilities on him. It only takes one to kill him, and there is a lot more than one or two in game.

[SgtElias]

Spicen wrote...

Um, hawke doesnt start mage templar war, Anders/Meredith starts.

I never said that Hawke started anything. I said that the world perceived that s/he had. We the player (as Hawke) know that Hawke was just sort of in the wrong place at the wrong time. But if it wasn't perceived that Hawke was responsible, Cassandra never would have bothered to find Varric in order to interrogate him as to Hawke's whereabouts. And if Cassandra, who has connections and what passes for authority in Thedas, and therefore in theory has more access to information, believes Hawke responsible, then I assume the rest of the populace does, too.

As for qunari, if u refuse to fight one on one with arishok, all the qunari will attack u. and how many were there ....20no, 30. Kirkwall was only a city of a state, starkhaven or other free march citehs  wud have sent reinforcement if need be.

Which would have sparked further hostilities with the Qunari. I'm not saying that an invasion was sure to happen at that moment---just that it was a very real possibility. Thus, Hawke once again was perceived to be a person of great import, for saving Kirkwall from a foreign enemy.

And about Mage templar war once again, i will say considering that kirkwall is defeated, mages wud have attempted to push for freedom, dont forget there was a meeting in the college of magi in which the mages wud have definitely wanted freedom, so a templar-mage war was by all means inevitable.

I agree. However, who was around when it happened? Who was blamed for it subsequently, fair or not? Hawke, by and large.

And ur talking about the warden doing nothing, he stopped a blight which otherwise could have crippled orlais, and other of the more "important" countries.

Please don't put words in my mouth. I never said that the Warden did nothing; on the contrary, I personally believe that the Warden did more for Thedas when all is said and done than Hawke. I noted that according to the rest of the world, the Warden was fairly unimportant.

As for Fereldan, u obviously know nothing about the lore

Now really. That's just unnecessary.

it is the city of andraste's birth and the whirlwind of the revolution against tevinter imperium.

. . . thousands of years ago.

If it aint important Orlais wudnt want to conquer fereldan.

Conquering armies don't invade a place because it's "important." They invade because they need resources, to expand national borders, and mostly because they can. I assume that the fact that Andraste was born there was just an added perk.

[Spicen]

You kow what, judging by the some of the people's skepticism, i wish bioware gave my warden an option to join the archdemon. Then Thedas would have known how "unimportant" the warden is. Really the wardens r right they have a very unappreciated job. They saved the world from the darkspawn(or clownspawn of DA 2) 5 times yet people hate them. Next time i fight a blight as a warden ill make sure that thedas gets its just reward, Razikale the new ruler of Thedas, enter.

[Spicen]

SgtElias wrote...

Spicen wrote...

Um, hawke doesnt start mage templar war, Anders/Meredith starts.

I never said that Hawke started anything. I said that the world perceived that s/he had. We the player (as Hawke) know that Hawke was just sort of in the wrong place at the wrong time. But if it wasn't perceived that Hawke was responsible, Cassandra never would have bothered to find Varric in order to interrogate him as to Hawke's whereabouts. And if Cassandra, who has connections and what passes for authority in Thedas, and therefore in theory has more access to information, believes Hawke responsible, then I assume the rest of the populace does, too.

As for qunari, if u refuse to fight one on one with arishok, all the qunari will attack u. and how many were there ....20no, 30. Kirkwall was only a city of a state, starkhaven or other free march citehs  wud have sent reinforcement if need be.

Which would have sparked further hostilities with the Qunari. I'm not saying that an invasion was sure to happen at that moment---just that it was a very real possibility. Thus, Hawke once again was perceived to be a person of great import, for saving Kirkwall from a foreign enemy.

And about Mage templar war once again, i will say considering that kirkwall is defeated, mages wud have attempted to push for freedom, dont forget there was a meeting in the college of magi in which the mages wud have definitely wanted freedom, so a templar-mage war was by all means inevitable.

I agree. However, who was around when it happened? Who was blamed for it subsequently, fair or not? Hawke, by and large.

And ur talking about the warden doing nothing, he stopped a blight which otherwise could have crippled orlais, and other of the more "important" countries.

Please don't put words in my mouth. I never said that the Warden did nothing; on the contrary, I personally believe that the Warden did more for Thedas when all is said and done than Hawke. I noted that according to the rest of the world, the Warden was fairly unimportant.

As for Fereldan, u obviously know nothing about the lore

Now really. That's just unnecessary.

it is the city of andraste's birth and the whirlwind of the revolution against tevinter imperium.

. . . thousands of years ago.

If it aint important Orlais wudnt want to conquer fereldan.

Conquering armies don't invade a place because it's "important." They invade because they need resources, to expand national borders, and mostly because they can. I assume that the fact that Andraste was born there was just an added perk.

Fair reply most of them except about the qunari, u have to realise whatever hawke does, the arishok still says that the qunari will come back. so the only notable thing is hawke saved a few nobles but thats really it.

[Maria Caliban]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

As much as BioWare wants to make Hawke a very important and influential character in the Dragon Age universe, I'm just not seeing it.

Is that really what they want?

SgtElias wrote...

Conquering armies don't invade a place because it's "important." They invade because they need resources, to expand national borders, and mostly because they can. I assume that the fact that Andraste was born there was just an added perk.

Jerusalem must be one of the most resource rich cities in human history.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 27 août 2012 - 10:24 .

[Spicen]

Tommyspa wrote...

@Renmiri1 In the short story he is being escorted by 2 men, killing both I think. And one of the templars got scared and didn't use any templar abilities on him. It only takes one to kill him, and there is a lot more than one or two in game.

Look in one of the codex somewhere i read that there are more powerful spirits than pride demons and shud they possess a powerful mage like anders or Feynriel, the devastation that would take place is unimaginable. I think a demon of Vengeance is one of those.

[Spicen]

Maria Caliban wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

As much as BioWare wants to make Hawke a very important and influential character in the Dragon Age universe, I'm just not seeing it.

Is that really what they want?

SgtElias wrote...

Conquering armies don't invade a place because it's "important." They invade because they need resources, to expand national borders, and mostly because they can. I assume that the fact that Andraste was born there was just an added perk.

Jerusalem must be one of the most resource rich cities in human history.

Man whoever u r, u took the words out of my mouth. I wanted to say that first.

Kudos to u

[MichaelStuart]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Jerusalem must be one of the most resource rich cities in human history.

If you consider trade a resource, than Jerusalem was a very resource rich city. Control of Jerusalem allowed some control over the trade routes between Asia and europe.

Plus Jerusalem being a holy city, it brought in a lot of money from pilgrims.

Modifié par MichaelStuart, 27 août 2012 - 11:09 .

[Corto81]

The Warden shaped the world.
His decisions led to the life or death of people of Redcliffe and Brecilian forests (Elves), who ruled Orzammar, who ruled Ferelden, what happened to a sacred relic and the potential sub-plots for it, and he ended the Blight.
He was kickass.

Hawke was a dude (or dudette) who helped stop the Qunari rebellion (NOT invasion) and was there when the Chantry thing happened.
No matter what he does in the game he doesn't influence the world around him.
The ONLY thing that really mattered was the Qunari rebellion (but then again, the writing in Act 2 was worlds better than Act 1 or Act 3).

So yeah, Hawke was very much unimportant in the grand scheme of things.
And if BW insist he's important, then they could've made it so his decisions mattered.

[Guiverno]

As DAII takes place in a specific city, it gives the impression that the events aren't important to Dragon Age universe. DA:O, however, involves a whole nation and the plot isn't as "autobiographical", so to speak.
But I think that the importance of Hawke focuses on the role he could play in the near future. Besides, Hawke stimulated mages-templars conflict.

[Jerrybnsn]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Think about this- Anders needed aid from Hawke for his plan. 

Without aid from Hawke, the chantry wouldn't have gotten blown to bits, and the argument between Orsino and Meredith wouldn't have escalated the way it did.

Hawke was the key.

No he wasn't. Act 2, I asked Anders to gtfo, and he left. He didn't need any help from my Hawk to blow the chantry. Anders came back in act 3 and * poof *, the same thing happened no matter what I did to avoid that crap.

.

Yes.  Anders blows up the Chantry whether you help him or not.  And that started the whole mage/templar war that is to engulf parts of Thedas.  Let's face it.  Hawke killed a Qunari, and that's about it.  He gets a statue for it, but do I get a statue for killing an Archdemon and saving the entire Thedas from a blight?  No.

Hawke wasn't a key.  He was a piece of furniture for people to use or not.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 27 août 2012 - 01:43 .

[ScotGaymer]

Hawke is supposed to be important to Thedas, and is suppose to be an influential character but in reality his importance is overblown and he was largely irrelevant.

Modifié par FitScotGaymer, 27 août 2012 - 01:47 .

[Sylvianus]

@ Jerrybsns, you did something wrong with your quotes lol. Realzmaster with Uhh Jonah are actually the ones who believe Hawk was a key, not me.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 27 août 2012 - 01:52 .

[filetemo]

The warden stopped a blight
Hawke started the templar mage war

and both did so because flemeth allowed them to live.

1.flemeth
2.warden
3.hawke

[The Hierophant]

filetemo wrote...

The warden stopped a blight
Hawke started the templar mage war

and both did so because flemeth allowed them to live.

1.flemeth
2.warden
3.hawke

The bolded wholly depends if the novel Asunder isn't mentioned at all in the third game, and technically it was Anders killing Elthina that escalated the conflict in Kirkwall.

Modifié par The Hierophant, 27 août 2012 - 02:04 .

[Rinji the Bearded]

Was Hawke important in Kirkwall and the events in DA2? Yes. Did he/she really start the mage/templar war? Yes and no. First, I think many know that Hawke was not the one who blew up the Chantry. Second, the events in Kirkwall were more like a snowball effect, as they caused the mages and templar relation to become more tense, but the war did not start there exactly. If the events of the Asunder novel are canon, that's when the war would have really started -- months and months later after the end of DA2. Thirdly, Hawke has disappeared, and his/her reputation and story is now vague hearsay and rumor.

To answer OP's question, I think Hawke was important to the universe, but many people in that universe may not acknowledge his/her importance over time.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 27 août 2012 - 02:16 .

[Beerfish]

Hawke is a very major part of the DA universe. He/her and his group mates were incredibly powerful. Powerful to the point that the chantry, templars and mages were essentially afraid to deal with him and couldn't go as far as they wanted in most cases.

Hawke was also stupid enough to let his comrade to blow up the chantry despite being given hints all over the place that Anders was up to no good.

[Renmiri1]

Anders was clearly dangerous. But the thing is Anders behaved for SEVEN YEARS. Aveline even says on Act 3 that she thought Anders would be one of the first mages to go up in flames but he had not (until then).

We who read the short story know how dangerous he could be, if the Vengeance spirit got loose. No one else did. Except Anders himself, he knew. Everyone else including friendly / romanced / rival Hawke thought Justice was just a glowy light show and a few deep voice shouts. No one was expecting the violence that Vengeance was capable. Not even Anders himself IMHO. In the end he lost his battle to his demon. And innocents paid. But that was not Hawke's fault.

Modifié par Renmiri1, 27 août 2012 - 03:29 .

[Jerrybnsn]

Sylvianus wrote...

@ Jerrybsns, you did something wrong with your quotes lol. Realzmaster with Uhh Jonah are actually the ones who believe Hawk was a key, not me.

Oh!  My bad.  I messed up the quotes the first time and we were all boxed.  Sorry about messin that up.

[Spicen]

Corto81 wrote...

The Warden shaped the world.
His decisions led to the life or death of people of Redcliffe and Brecilian forests (Elves), who ruled Orzammar, who ruled Ferelden, what happened to a sacred relic and the potential sub-plots for it, and he ended the Blight.
He was kickass.

.

Exactly what i said the wardens have a very unappreciated job. if this goes on(in the real world and thedas) i will join the archdemon razikale in DA 4(if BW gives the chance)

[LinksOcarina]

Guiverno wrote...

As DAII takes place in a specific city, it gives the impression that the events aren't important to Dragon Age universe. DA:O, however, involves a whole nation and the plot isn't as "autobiographical", so to speak.
But I think that the importance of Hawke focuses on the role he could play in the near future. Besides, Hawke stimulated mages-templars conflict.

Pretty much this. We don't know the whole story, and we don't know what will happen next. My guess is that Hawke is still vital to whats going on, and whatever happens it will be an interesting challenge to see how he fits into the storyline in the future. 

[Jerrybnsn]

Spicen wrote...

Corto81 wrote...

The Warden shaped the world.
His decisions led to the life or death of people of Redcliffe and Brecilian forests (Elves), who ruled Orzammar, who ruled Ferelden, what happened to a sacred relic and the potential sub-plots for it, and he ended the Blight.
He was kickass.

.

Exactly what i said the wardens have a very unappreciated job. if this goes on(in the real world and thedas) i will join the archdemon razikale in DA 4(if BW gives the chance)

Exactly.  The whole Darkspawn/Archdemon/architect/Flemeth/Morrigan/OGB is a much more interesting way to tell the story of Thedas.  And I would rather experience that world through the eyes of a Warden who can see the grey overtures throughout all the conflict.  And also, I'd rather see it all in my one singular experience as the games progress playing my one warden.  I don't see how jumping around to different protagonists can help with the continuity of understanding the story.

[Realmzmaster]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Well, it's possible to kill Anders in DA2, so I'm thinking his short story probably should not be taken as gospel.

It is possible because Anders wants to die. He controls Justice and doesn't let him attack you...

He asks you to come "help" rescue Karl and investigate Sir Alrick because Anders doesn't want another massacre. He doesn't want Justice to get loose and do what Justice did to Rolan and the other Wardens and Templars on the short story.

I read the short story, during the transformation he is vulunerable and can be killed.  For example during the cutscene with Karl Anders falls to his kness at that moment or before he can be killed. A templar hunter using assassinate can take him out. 
But let's say Anders killed all the templars himself. He could just as easily killed Karl in the ensuring melee. Because by Act 2 Anders is unable to control himself which is why he ends up killing the mage girl . The only reason why he does not is if Hawke has enough friendship or rivalry to influence Anders.
So on a personal level Hawke can save Anders from committing an unjust murder.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 27 août 2012 - 04:48 .