142 réponses à ce sujet

[Matthias King]

I agree it could use a buff of some kind, or at the very least, be made both a source and detonator power. Warp and Reave can both source and detonate. I don't see a reason why Dark Channel couldn't as well.

And I too was just a little disappointed that it wasn't green. It's a silly cosmetic thing, but it still would have been cool to see.

[Ramsutin]

Ashen Earth wrote...

You don't need to CQC with DC.

You can just drop it on a Brute or Phantom and walk away, because DC will kill either of them in one cast...

Yes, but on Gold you have many Brutes and Phantoms coming you at once and you may not have time to wait 60ish seconds for the DoT to kill it. I specced my Fury 66660 because of that.

[cronshaw]

Ashen Earth wrote...

It just wouldn't feel like a good day on BSN without another quality post from soultaker65.

wheter or not you agree with him posts like this are about 100x better than the whiny posts that dominate this forum.

[Black Phantom]

Ramsutin wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

You don't need to CQC with DC.

You can just drop it on a Brute or Phantom and walk away, because DC will kill either of them in one cast...

Yes, but on Gold you have many Brutes and Phantoms coming you at once and you may not have time to wait 60ish seconds for the DoT to kill it. I specced my Fury 66660 because of that.

42 seconds is the max duration, and it never takes that long to kill either enemy.

It is very possible to drop DC on a Brute or Phantom that is on the other side of the map, while you're running around blowing things up with AF and Throw.

[soultaker65]

dzero wrote...

soultaker65 wrote...

1. It doesn't set off BEs.

Not sure if really bad player or really good troll...

DC doesn't Detonate BEs it can prime them, but just like Pull doesn't Detonate them 

[IndigoVitare]

Ramsutin wrote...

DarthVarner wrote...

>checks manifest to see if you are new to the game
Ok so few points, DC doesnt have BE enhancers like warp and throw so it actually has the weakest BEs in-game. Also, Fury is mainly run-and-gun with AF+throw as main damage outputters. You can play the class as you like but for CQC DC is not viable.

Yes, technically they're the weakest.

But so are the Drell Adept's Cluster 'splosions. That doesn't mean anything really.

How do you fight Banshees? Or deal with enemies covered by ranged killers? How do you fight the GODDAMN HACKING GETH? I've always found the Geth a nightmare for the Fury unless I use Dark Channel as my main primer.

[dzero]

soultaker65 wrote...

dzero wrote...

soultaker65 wrote...

1. It doesn't set off BEs.

Not sure if really bad player or really good troll...

DC doesn't Detonate BEs it can prime them, but just like Pull doesn't Detonate them 

Oh. I guess I read that wrong.

[omgBAMF]

Ramsutin wrote...

DarthVarner wrote...

>checks manifest to see if you are new to the game
Ok so few points, DC doesnt have BE enhancers like warp and throw so it actually has the weakest BEs in-game. Also, Fury is mainly run-and-gun with AF+throw as main damage outputters. You can play the class as you like but for CQC DC is not viable.

You do realize that DC bio-explosions are just as strong as AF bio-explosions, right?  

DC + Throw = AF + Throw


Also... while I agree that AF + throw is fun to do while you "run-and-gun", it gets a bit difficult when you're up against banshees/primes/pyros/phantoms(to a certain degree).  DC is definitely cqc viable... ever heard of DC followed by AH?  Better yet, try out (with AF active), it should be theoretically possible:

DC -> get in close for AF prime -> Throw -> get BE -> pop AF -> get another BE from DC prime

[Lajkos]

DarthVarner wrote...

1 - It's a priming power, and it's phenemonal when you chain it among mooks. Does solid damage to bosses too, and it one-shot kills phantoms (eventually).

2 - Do you actually understand how BE's work? Really? Cause this pretty much screams "I have no clue about the mechanics of this game." The strength of BEs is calculated exclusively from the ranks of the priming and detonating powers. That's it. It can be modified by evolutions in Warp, Throw, Shockwave and the like... but a DC-primed BE is the exact same "strength" as any other BE. Honestly after seeing this level of derp I'm not sure why I'm going on, but I'll just bury your entire post for good measure.

3 - Sounds like you're confusing DC with Reave or Warp. Try again.

4 - Quick recharge + higher base damage not doing it for you?

5 - Heaven forbid we permit versatility in character design! Why, I think infiltrators should be stuck with the zoomed-in FoV because they're only intended to be used at range! WHAT YOU SAY?! THEY'RE USING SHOTGUNS NOW?! WE CAN'T HAVE THAT!

tl;dr - This post can be summed up as follows: Hi, my name is Soultaker65 and I can't use the N7 Fury. I'm just completely horrible at the class. I only play specific enemies on specific maps, and I don't know how the game works. For the love of God and your own sanity, don't listen to anything I say.

pretty much

[Invader Nemesis]

I love DC and the best thing about it is that it jumps from enemy to enemy. DC and throw one guy and just use throw on the next guy DC lands on. But sadly it does need a buff. If your try to BE anything above a normal trooper it just doesn't seem to do enough damage.

Modifié par LadyNemsis21, 26 août 2012 - 06:26 .

[Tallgeese_VII]

There really is no better way to use that 21 skill points for Fury though.
6/6/6/5/3.. would function no worse than 6/0/6/6/6 or 6/6/6/6/0 at any moment.
Even if you use it only 2-3 times a game... if it killed a few enemies or so I think it`s more worth than 200 more shield and health.

[soultaker65]

Pyth the Bull wrote...

soultaker65 wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

It just wouldn't feel like a good day on BSN without another quality post from soultaker65.

It also wouldn't feel like a good day on BSN without another quality response from Ashen Earth.

I'm sensing some hostility.

Ashen has disliked me since I said that RoF bounses are bad for the PPR, it got worse when I started making I'm bored builds like a PPR on a Fury.

Quite a few dislike me for my post about the Shuriken awhile back. ( it's not as powerful as I made it out to be, but I still like it)  

[Zerotick]

I've noticed that whenever i detonate dark channel with throw, all enemies caught in the BE become afflicted with dark channel, even if the host wasn't killed by the BE. You can't detonate the DC's, but all enemies seem to be taking DoT, they also all have Dark Channels animation on them.

Anybody care to verify/check this out? I don't play the Fury enough to really be able to confirm it.

[Black Phantom]

Zerotick wrote...

I've noticed that whenever i detonate dark channel with throw, all enemies caught in the BE become afflicted with dark channel, even if the host wasn't killed by the BE. You can't detonate the DC's, but all enemies seem to be taking DoT, they also all have Dark Channels animation on them.

Anybody care to verify/check this out? I don't play the Fury enough to really be able to confirm it.

This is a glitch. Dark Channel shouldn't be jumping to enemies unless the guy who was afflicted with it dies. I hate it when this happens because it makes it impossible to tell who I should be aiming my throw at next out of a group of enemies.

[Ramsutin]

@Ashen you actually cant kill a Brute on gold. It takes 4.8 seconds more to kill brute with max damage DC than the duration is. If I did the math right. Sucks

Modifié par Ramsutin, 26 août 2012 - 06:35 .

[Black Phantom]

Ramsutin wrote...

@Ashen you actually cant kill a Brute on gold. It takes 4.8 seconds more to kill brute with max damage DC than the duration is. If I did the math right. Sucks

I've killed them with DC specced for duration, slow, and pierce. I'm guessing you calculated for damage rank 4 instead of the extra 12 seconds of duration?

Obviously you're getting more damage out of the extended duration. The rank 4 damage bonus doesn't help DC much since it has such a low base DPS. DC's strength is that it lasts damn near forever.

Modifié par Ashen Earth, 26 août 2012 - 06:37 .

[IndigoVitare]

Ashen Earth wrote...

Zerotick wrote...

I've noticed that whenever i detonate dark channel with throw, all enemies caught in the BE become afflicted with dark channel, even if the host wasn't killed by the BE. You can't detonate the DC's, but all enemies seem to be taking DoT, they also all have Dark Channels animation on them.

Anybody care to verify/check this out? I don't play the Fury enough to really be able to confirm it.

This is a glitch. Dark Channel shouldn't be jumping to enemies unless the guy who was afflicted with it dies. I hate it when this happens because it makes it impossible to tell who I should be aiming my throw at next out of a group of enemies.

Is it confirmed a glitch?

I don't think is it. Stasis primed explosions do the same thing.

[steverw1975]

Ashen Earth wrote...

Ramsutin wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

You don't need to CQC with DC.

You can just drop it on a Brute or Phantom and walk away, because DC will kill either of them in one cast...

Yes, but on Gold you have many Brutes and Phantoms coming you at once and you may not have time to wait 60ish seconds for the DoT to kill it. I specced my Fury 66660 because of that.

42 seconds is the max duration, and it never takes that long to kill either enemy.

It is very possible to drop DC on a Brute or Phantom that is on the other side of the map, while you're running around blowing things up with AF and Throw.

yes, and DC absulutely chews through armor. Combine that with the fact that DC jumps when the original target dies, and a single priming shot can be used to take out multiple targets using biotic explosions. Oh, and if you pair it with another biotic user stand back. My buddy and I just blasted though a gold match  on Glacier with a pair of furies. The other two were desperately running around looking for something to kill, but we constantly had 2 DCs going, and set each other up for continuous biotic explosions. Phantoms, Engineers, and Atlases just seemed to melt away from the map.

[soultaker65]

IndigoVitare wrote...

How do you fight Banshees? Or deal with enemies covered by ranged killers? How do you fight the GODDAMN HACKING GETH? I've always found the Geth a nightmare for the Fury unless I use Dark Channel as my main primer.

I fight all bosses the same way get close so AF rank 5 kicks in BE them backflip then shoot them with a powerful close range gun like the Claymore,Revenant, or Piranha. As for the geth like all other mook as long as Throw Detonates AF and you shoot them they die.

[Black Phantom]

IndigoVitare wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

Zerotick wrote...

I've noticed that whenever i detonate dark channel with throw, all enemies caught in the BE become afflicted with dark channel, even if the host wasn't killed by the BE. You can't detonate the DC's, but all enemies seem to be taking DoT, they also all have Dark Channels animation on them.

Anybody care to verify/check this out? I don't play the Fury enough to really be able to confirm it.

This is a glitch. Dark Channel shouldn't be jumping to enemies unless the guy who was afflicted with it dies. I hate it when this happens because it makes it impossible to tell who I should be aiming my throw at next out of a group of enemies.

Is it confirmed a glitch?

That's what we call it when abilities in this game don't work as was intended.

[Ramsutin]

Ashen Earth wrote...

Ramsutin wrote...

@Ashen you actually cant kill a Brute on gold. It takes 4.8 seconds more to kill brute with max damage DC than the duration is. If I did the math right. Sucks

I've killed them with DC specced for duration, slow, and pierce. I'm guessing you calculated for damage rank 4 instead of the extra 12 seconds of duration?

So I did. Thanks for pointing that out. I have specced mine for 4A so I have to use respec card to change that to 4B .

Modifié par Ramsutin, 26 août 2012 - 06:40 .

[t6skyart]

Ramsutin wrote...

DarthVarner wrote...

>checks manifest to see if you are new to the game
Ok so few points, DC doesnt have BE enhancers like warp and throw so it actually has the weakest BEs in-game. Also, Fury is mainly run-and-gun with AF+throw as main damage outputters. You can play the class as you like but for CQC DC is not viable.

I don't know what you mean by this, especiallly the throw part. It's not like there's a rule forbidding you from using throw to set off BEs primed by dark channel. You may compare DC with warp, but you're only listing the pros of warp and cons of DC. I wouldn't call that a comparison.

Dark Channel:
Pros:
-Metric **** tons of damage against armour (damage, not dps), although people ignore this point just because it's DoT and not flat damage.
-Jumps from target to target, priming multiple BEs.
-Prevents shield/barrier regeneration.
-Instant cast (no dodging whereas warp gets dodged more than 50% of the time by almost everything)
-Only primes, does not detonate.

Cons:
-no evolutions to increase BE damage, resulting in weaker BEs than, say, ones primed by warp.



Warp:
Pros:
-Strong BEs
-Curves around corners
-Potentially increase damage output from weapons for a short time (one of the evolutions).
-Can prime and detonate

Cons:
-Not instant and can be dodged.
-Does not jump from target to target.
-Does little damage as a skill.



If you compared the two skills carefully, you would see that as a skill by itself and as a BE primer, DC has many more advantages than warp and not as many disadvantages. Just the fact that it's instant cast makes it better than warp already (thanks to ****ty AI dodge mechanics). Even if warp causes stronger BEs, what's the point when it can't even hit its target. Not to mention that warp doesn't jump from target to target, does little damage compared to DC, and does not prevent long term shield regeneration.

Modifié par t6skyart, 26 août 2012 - 06:55 .

[yarpenthemad21]

soultaker65 wrote...

I know how good DC is but I don't use it for the following reasons.

1. It doesn't set off BEs. This is the main reason using DC instead of Throw while close to the enemy it can and will get you killed since it doesn't set off BEs.

2. It's BEs are the weakest and slowest the Fury can do. Even at rank 6 DC has one of the weakest BE it the game it's also one of the slowest primer only power in the game.

3. It has no base extra ability like a debuff or DR. This really kills this power for me, and rank 5 Slow isn't that great.

4. It doesn't stack with itself.  Even Pull and Lash can stack with themselves.

5. It's a long range power. Since it doesn't set off BE it a long range power on a character I use in super close range, and even if I did use it from long range I would do more damage with a weapon than I would with DC's DoT.

Like I said I know all of it's good points like how it stops enemy shield regen and how when it kill one enemy it jumps to another enemy and primes it, but I use it 2 maybe 3 times a match and thats just not worth 21 points. 

1. it's second best primer in game (reave is best), ability to set up severall BEs. Because of it you can kill group of mooks with one DC and several throws. helps a lot with bosses, you can for example with 1 dc make two BE on prime (just cast first on his drone)
2. it has very high dps which can kill phantom, other mooks and deal very high damage on ravager and brute. It has slow debuff. very usefull.
3. Weakest BE? +50% BE damage, highest one has 125%, but warp can miss and warp can be detonated only once. 
4. You use it wrong. Cast it on the weakest enemy, not on boss. It also kill swarmers really fast. Stacking doesn't matter here, because it's just matter of balance. Can you imagine about 15 DC on one enemy? Look at the duration (30 or even longer s, cooldown about 2.3 s) This could just set up any enemy on map and deal very very high damage.
5. You doing it wrong. Sometimes it's just impossible to charge at enemy with AH and detonate them. Also it's great range primer, use DC on long range or even mid range, start running, throw to detonate and stragger, get close, kill other with detonations from AH->throw. 
Also look at dps of this power. and look at multipliers. damage x1.5 vs armor, damage x2 vs barrier. evo could give another x1.75 on both. 
Also with DC and another reave user you can detonate phantoms ALWAYS. both powers never miss phantom, barrier doesn't help here. Also DC + ah detonation = BE and it's great when dealing with phantoms in close range. DC will eat phantom barrier fast ass hell, and we all know that phantom without barriers is just dead phantom.

You have reason not to use dark channel. IMO it's great power, makes fury viable on any range and with DC she is great with biotic squads.
Still having maxed DC doesn't make fury weak. I can easly skipp passive if i want maxed fitness or play normal 5/3 to have high damaging DC.
Also we all know that difference between 625 shield and 825 shields is so small that it just doesn't matter. you still get killed by 3 prime/rockets/atlas/ravager/phantom shots, you still get killed by marauder burst and geth turret.

Modifié par yarpenthemad21, 26 août 2012 - 06:52 .

[Ramsutin]

t6skyart wrote...

I am not saying it is a bad skill. It is a great skill which can kill Brutes etc. And I have fully specced it on my Fury. What I was trying to say is that this class is great at running through (shielded) enemies, setting BEs on the way, and then come back for more. So I understand that for some, more shields is better option than DoT skill.
As for Warp, I myself havent had the dodging issue. Nearly all my Warps hit the target.

As for DC having weakest BEs it is true (correct if I am wrong). It gets only 50% more damage from throw. AF+Throw is equally weak but seeing as you can set them so often I am willing to say it is better than DC+Throw.

TL:DR DCis a good skill, but I can see why someone would prefer fitness over it

Modifié par Ramsutin, 26 août 2012 - 06:58 .

[silencekills]

soultaker65 wrote...


3. It has no base extra ability like a debuff or DR. This really kills this power for me, and rank 5 Slow isn't that great.

In my opinion, Dark Channel would be the worst power in existence if it gave the enemy DR.

Modifié par silencekills, 26 août 2012 - 06:56 .