17 réponses à ce sujet

[Abraham_uk]

Best class: Does one exist.

There is a best class in all Mass Effect games. There actually is one. It's called the soldier. But I never play soldier, because I don't find it fun.

I love the adept. My favourite class, because I love biotics so much.
I love engineer. I find the tech powers fun to play with.
I love vanguard. I love the combination of combat and biotics. I love the in your face charging style.
I love infiltrator. In Mass Effect 1 it was okay, but when tactical cloak was introduced in Mass Effect 2 I enjoyed it more.

Sentinel is fun to play too.


Check out the soldier.

So let's look at soldier. Why am I claiming it's the best class? Highest damage per second with guns. In the end of the day you can sweep away hoards of enemies with every single weapon damage buff in the game.

All of the weapon damage buffs in your passives.
All of the weapon damage buffs from adrenaline rush and ammo mods.
All of the weapon damage buffs from armour.
All of the weapon damage buffs from the Shadow Broker
All of the weapon damage buffs from weapon upgrades and mods.

Now compare a fully maxed out soldier with the five other classes in the gun departments.
Soldiers easily beat their competition.


But what do Soldiers have as powers?

A grenade. Nope not an arc grenade. Not an inferno grenade. Not a cryo grenade. Not a sticky grenade. Not a flash bang grenade. Just a normal frag grenade.

Three Ammo Mods. I guess ammo mods are fun. They add some much needed diversity. But they are still not as much fun as overload, incendiary blast and cryo blast in my opinion.

Concussive Shot. Amplified concussive shot is interesting. Adds some versatility and has okay synergy with incendiary, cryo and disruptor ammo. Does not synergise well with armour piercing ammo and warp ammo. So no warp explosions or penetrating light cover. As for shredder varient, it makes enemies bleed a little. Concussive shot still excels at it's primary function which is throwing enemies. If you combine it with adding three different elementals, then it is a nice alternative to biotic throw. Concussive shot is my only attraction to soldier aside from adrenaline rush.

Adrenaline rush: In Mass Effect 2 it was the fun little bullet time power. In Mass Effect 3, time is slightly slowed down. The time dilation has been nerfed. But soldier is still the blitzing machine.

Heavy Melee. Omni blades are fun. But they're more awesome if they have flames or lightning effects attached to them. Heck they're more awesome if they come in pairs like the sentinel. Soldier has one. But at least soldiers do a thrusting motion rather than a slashing motion. The only classes that do thrusting motions are the adept (biotic palm strike) and vanguard (biotic punch).

Fitness: The same as everyone else. But the soldier does have better health and shielding than the rest. Well with the exception of sentinel, but if you choose to ditch the tech armour as a sentinel, then soldier trumps the sentinel.

class passive: Guns, guns, guns.


Conclusion


But if you play soldier, then Mass Effect 2 and 3's combat becomes just becomes another cover shooter.
Sure you're playing the class with the best damage per second.
Sure you're still playing the gun tooting killing machine that can wipe out enemies.
But that's about it. Might as well play any other cover shooter. Heck the other cover shooters play much better, since even Mass Effect 3's improved gameplay mechanics are dated.
For me it's the tech and biotic powers (and any combat power that isn't an ammo mod or grenade) that interest me.
It's not the plot that makes me want to do second and third playthroughs but the vivid and diverse classes.
Soldier is the only class that doesn't interest me that much.

[Abraham_uk]

Do you agree or disagree?

Bear in mind that I haven't really played the soldier class. So forgive my ignorance.

I know that the soldier is the best class "on paper". But I see no real attraction due to lack of biotic and tech powers.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

Well as far as ME1 goes, the best class was the Vanguard... Best DPS and serious casting power iirc.

As far as ME2 went, the Sentinel was easily the best class... maybe less raw DPS than the Soldier, but you were practically indestructible and you had a hard counter for everything in the game, unlike the Soldier.

In ME3 everyone's been saying that the Soldier is weak. I actually haven't played the other classes in SP yet, so I can't really comment, other than I highly doubt the Soldier is the strongest class in the game. I can blow through the game easily with the ME3 Soldier, but from what I've seen others do, I can't imagine the other classes being weaker.

[shepisavanguardgetoverit]

I agree with your statement, I don't play the soldier myself because they have not tech, biotic abilities, which are what distinguishes me3 apart from every other cover based shooter out there.  Plus you have garrus, ashley and james as squadmates, 3 soldiers allready and theres no reason to play one as well. 

Nothing against the class, its just if I have the choice between coffee and cake, Iwill go coffee because I'm a caffeine addict <_<

[Doriath]

Well in all consideration, you can give the soldier tech or biotic capability and it can be used effectively with the class during adrenaline rush. I know some people don't like to break lore and do that, but at least you can and it does add an interesting dynamic to the class without taking away its identity.

Modifié par chrisnabal, 26 août 2012 - 11:20 .

[BlessedSoldier]

Abraham_uk wrote...

Do you agree or disagree?

Bear in mind that I haven't really played the soldier class. So forgive my ignorance.

I know that the soldier is the best class "on paper". But I see no real attraction due to lack of biotic and tech powers.

I highly disagree. It really just is not the best class in anyway shape or form.

Its true they do have quite a lot of damage increasing but it just doesnt compar to the damage output of a Infiltrator with Marksman...at all. In additon the fun part about the soldier was the many many weapons but the soldier doesnt have that anymore. They have the lowest carry weight in the game because in order to have the carry weight bonus you need to sacrifice a good chunk of your possible damage output. No one class has that.

The Sentinel makes a much better "weapon handler" as with the right build you can grab any weapon you choose and never ever have to worry about Cooldowns while also lobbing biotic grenades and tricking biotic explosions and having the freedom to switch to a caster playstyle between missions or on a mission from a weapons bench.

And yes while their is a "Best" class it is not the Soldier. Not by a long shot. The best class in the game goes to the overpowered freight train known as the Vanguard hands down.

[capn233]

Disagree.

I am going to approach this from the perspective of basically Vanilla classes without overpowered DLC items (they know who they are...)

Soldier is a powerful class in ME1 since you can eventually become unkillable, and you have all the guns to start with which is nice for when you overheat one. However, I find it is actually one of the harder classes to start at Level 1 on Insanity, and at the end Infiltrator or Vanguard can do most of the "combat" bit as well as Soldier, but get a few little tricks of their own. Also Sentinel late game can almost tank as well, plus has much better CC powers.

In ME2 I suppose you could make a semi-decent argument for it being the most powerful, although I would disagree and point towards Sentinel or Vanguard as being more powerful. A fairly simple class to learn adequately though, can deal with any threat... and it was again nice to have most weapon classes due to the mechanics of protections.

ME3 it is not nearly the most powerful class on Insanity largely because of the way combos work, and the fact that Shep can only essentially spam one (Disruptor Tech Burst) as a Soldier which does not appear to me to be nearly as good as Tech Bursts from a Tech class, nor as good as Biotic Explosions. Incendiary with Explosive Burst evolution is the way to attempt to catch up in DPS output, but I don't think it actually manages to get up there. Add to the fact that Vanguard and Sentinel are much harder to die as and it Soldier is easily not at the top, and I would argue is likely at the bottom.

And for what it's worth I think ME2 was the game where the classes had the narrowest range between them as far as effectiveness goes.

[KZ_Panda]

 Disagree

First of all, yes soldier has the highest dps out of all the classes, but you must also take into account that  while other classes can just pop up and toss a power, a soldier needs to remain exposed in order to do the damage, and you need to wait for your shield to recharge, so over all, you are not really doing dmg that much faster when you are in a long fight.

Also, while other classes have powers that  can arc around covers, a soldier needs to deal with the fact that most enemies are in cover themselves when not shooting at you. So many times I popped AR, then scan the battle field, only to find everyone in cover, and I just helplessly watch in slow-mo as I wasted 6 seconds of AR and 6 seconds of cd...

So no, soldier is definitely NOT the best class in the game in terms of being powerful.

But you know what, playing a soldier is actually very fun if you can break out of that "sit in cover and spam power" style. (which i would argue is more like other cover shooter games, just sit in cover, pop out,  snape a few shots, then duck)...After a few times of wasting AR, I've started to use AR more for tactical movements like switching positions and flanking enemies when they are in cover, similar to how a vanguard charges on an isolated enemy. And it's quite nice to actually feel pinned down when you are out of shield and there are 5 enemies shooting at your position since you have no power that can cause an explosion and kill everyone...

[Abraham_uk]

I really haven't played soldier in single player.
This is the post that inspired this thread.

swk3000 wrote...

To me, the problem is that bad balancing led to the Soldier being extremely tough to kill. Between Immunity cutting all incoming damage to one-fifth of it's initial value, and Adrenaline Rush dropping enemy DPS by half or more, the Soldier has always been tough to kill. The thing is, that's not how it's supposed to be. The Soldier has the best weapons training, making them much more deadly with weapons than any other class who tries to use the same weapon. In ME3, that's exactly what they are. Put a weapon in their hands, and they'll out-damage any other class. After all, they get all of the following:

+25% Weapon Damage from passive
+20% Headshot Damage from passive
+25% Headshot Damage from ammo power
+42% Weapon Damage when using Incendiary Ammo backed by passive boost
+75% Weapon Damage under Adrenaline Rush

And all of that is just based on what they have by default; it doesn't take into account all the other sources of weapon damage that any class has access to!

In comparison, the Sentinel gets +5% Weapon Damage from their passive. That's it. Oh, some of their powers increase damage to affected targets for a duration, but we're talking about the Tank Sentinel here, so their horrendously long cooldowns render those sources too unreliable to take into account..

As I said: the Sentinel is not a Soldier, and never will be. Being able to use all weapons doesn't make you a Soldier. After all, being able to push a button doesn't make you an MIT graduate.

Thread of origin: http://social.biowar...ndex/13799321/2

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 27 août 2012 - 05:09 .

[Abraham_uk]

What improvements do you propose for soldier class?

[KZ_Panda]

make the grenades travel straight like a grenade launcher, (like when Ashley uses inferno grenade) and soldier should be pretty much set... also, introduce a few heavy but powerful weapons (like they did with firefight pack) can give soldier that extra spice to distinguish itself.

[capn233]

Abraham_uk wrote...

What improvements do you propose for soldier class?

More damage reduction in Hardening evolution of Adrenaline Rush, add Accuracy and Stability bonuses into Combat Mastery.  Consider more weight capacity, but that isn't completely necessary.

[Binary_Helix 1]

Abraham_uk wrote...

What improvements do you propose for soldier class?

Remove the idiotic weight restrictions completely and bring back the quasi exclusivity of assault rifles. I'd also like the mod system axed entirely (like in ME2) or give soldiers more mod slots than anyone else. An armor talent that enables you to wear stronger variants of existing armors or boosted your armor stats (like in ME1) would also help. Returning adrenaline rush to it's former glory would also be nice. Bascially nothing new just going back to what worked so well in the first two games.

Modifié par Binary_Helix 1, 28 août 2012 - 04:11 .

[Abraham_uk]

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

Abraham_uk wrote...

What improvements do you propose for soldier class?

Remove the idiotic weight restrictions completely and bring back the quasi exclusivity of assault rifles. I'd also like the mod system axed entirely (like in ME2) or give soldiers more mod slots than anyone else. An armor talent that enables you to wear stronger variants of existing armors or boosted your armor stats (like in ME1) would also help. Returning adrenaline rush to it's former glory would also be nice. Bascially nothing new just going back to what worked so well in the first two games.

• Weight restrictions: Remove.
• Buff adrenaline rush' time dilation. This is the soldier's unique power.
• I'm up for giving soldiers two more mod slots for their weapons
• Exclusive Heavy armour modules  for soldiers. Yeah sure. Do it.
• I wouldn't mind the soldier being able to choose between different grenades.
• Heavy weapons. Soldiers can carry their's at all time. That would help.
• Improved weapon damage.
• Improve Amplified Concussive Shot.

Regarding Amplified Concussive shot: If this works properly, it adds some much needed versatility.

• Warp Ammo: Can prime and detonate biotic explosions.
• Armour Piercing Ammo: Can actually penetrate cover.
• Disruptor Ammo Ammo: Will always setup tech bursts.
• Incendiary Ammo: Will always setup incendiary explosions.
• Explosive Ammo: Will always explode. Not sometimes explode.
• Cryo Ammo: Will always setup cryo explosions. Will always freeze.
• On Multiplayer: Will actually work on multiplayer.

Give soldiers the option to mod grenades:

• Without mods: Your grenade is just the standard frag grenade.
• Inferno Mod: Your grenade will produce a series of mini fire explosions. Effective against armour and unprotected organics.
• Cryo Mod: Your grenade will freeze groups of enemies.
• Arc Mod: Your grenade will do disruptor damage. Very effective against synthetics, shields and barriers.
• Missile Mod: Your grenade will have a tracking device that will home in on an enemy and follow them until  it makes contact. Can be used in the same way most biotic and some tech powers are used.
• Multi Frag Mod: Allows your frag grenade to split into smaller grenades with a wider area of detonation.
• Flash Bang Mod: Overheats weapons, blurrs enemy vision, can throw unprotected enemies a large distance. Will do damage to shields and barriers, but not as much as Arc mod.
• Sticky Mod: Will enable the grenade to stick to enemy.
• Bouncing Mod: If the grenade misses, it will bounce around the battlefield until it hits an enemy.
• Lazarus Mod: Your grenade can heal your allies health and shielding. But it will also have the effect of healing the enemies if they are within the radius.

In addition, if you have Liara, Javik or Kaidan you can get them to biotically infuse your grenades.
The infusion will take the place of the grenade mod though.

• Lift Infusion: Makes your grenade lift enemies into the air.
• Cluster Infusion: A cluster of small biotic explosions over a wide area.

[zeypher]

I saw to fix soldier, First increase the hardening beneifts of adrenaline rush. ATM its 25%, a increase there is needed. Fix concussive shot a bit, maybe a boost to its dmg. Finally let soldier choose which grendae he wants or let us apply our ammo power to them.

[Abraham_uk]

zeypher wrote...

I saw to fix soldier, First increase the hardening beneifts of adrenaline rush. ATM its 25%, a increase there is needed. Fix concussive shot a bit, maybe a boost to its dmg. Finally let soldier choose which grendae he wants or let us apply our ammo power to them.

Good ideas.

[Gromnir]

Fix concussive shot's amplification evolution and make CS worthwhile as a damaging power...or just give soldiers carnage instead of concussive shot.

Change weight system to cap cooldown bonus much lower (e.g. 100% instead of 200%, or even less) and increase the weight capacity of soldiers. I would still allow anyone to use the assault rifle, it's just that it would be costly.

[The JoeMan]

The soldier needs 50 to 100 extra points of base weapon capacity. Alternatively, they could allow him to take his weapons up to level X on the first playthrough. Not being able to carry an assault rifle, sniper rifle and shotgun without a huge penalty is killing me.