Tyeme Downs wrote...
This is just another attempt to get a different ending. The biggest problem with it is trying to force MP to acheive it.
PS. You have 34 promotes in MP which adds 2550 in N7 war assets. Your not at 10-11k total assects.....yet. More like 7k.
Jamie9 wrote...
But you have another solution! Make it worse! You sound like the Catalyst. Make ME3 more MP dependant so the SP won't be MP dependant?
Modifié par AlanC9, 27 août 2012 - 02:45 .
Modifié par BeastSaver, 27 août 2012 - 02:59 .
hornedfrog87 wrote...
Past tense. Past tense can be used to reflect a state of mind.
hornedfrog87 wrote...
You are still seeing through the lens of what you feel entitled to. MP, as stated before, has a direct effect on the outcome of the storyline's outcome and as such, since its effects are already existent, remains to be part of the games entirety whether you or I like it or not. This is how it is. I began to play MP, not because I enjoyed it nor because I wanted to. I vehemently disagreed with its impact on the ending and played it out of spite so I would never have to play it again. Arguing that something is supposed to be this way or that way will yield no progression, as no solutions beneficial to both parties are provided due in part to pride. However, I recognize it to be a large part of the game because for some players you can achieve the best ending by playing MP alone and absolutely failing in SP; while I do not agree with the structure, I acknowledge it for what it is and offer a proposed solution. The entire hypothetical solution hung on the fact that A) Bioware wants MP to be successful, so promote it andMP is doing quite well in regards to participation and involvement so I saw minimal risk. Was I aware gamers like you would be rightfully upset? Yes, but I also stopped trying to see how a company who already dished out plenty of free work for it's fans due to anger and how it would be beneficial to them outside the mindset of "please the customer or there will be Hell to pay." Like I said in the beginning: hypothetical solution is simply hypothetical and would draw the ire of SP purists.
Jamie9 wrote...
hornedfrog87 wrote...
Past tense. Past tense can be used to reflect a state of mind.
Ah. So now that you enjoy MP, it's okay to be forced on others? Wait, not forced. You can "choose" whether you want to play MP. But if you want the full SP experience, you have to play MP.
Just keep them exclusive. It makes sense from a business standpoint, and a "don't get your consumers really angry" standpoint.
It also treats SP and MP equally, unlike your proposed method, which favours MP.
hornedfrog87 wrote...
You're arguing with me to remove one component from another that I did not create. MP, as stated before, has a direct effect on SP. You can receive the best SP ending based on your MP performance, which indicates its importance. I offered a hypothetical solution to receiving more of an ending rather than stomping my feet and saying I want more because I said so. My hypothetical solution did not favor one or the other, but kept it knitted together by utilizing the entire game, both SP and MP, to achieve the best ending. It is not my fault you choose not to. I will respect your differing opinion, but I am done conversing with you as I seem to just be going around in circles restating what I have already said in regards to a hypothetical solution, which I stated that I knew would yield no chance of being adopted, all because I would like more work done to the endings.
Slow down there, speed racer. I'm not the one coming to the forums begging to have my days and days of MP give me an ending that somebody that doesn't play MP can't get in a game where the MP was supposed to not be required. That you would be you acting entitled. Do I need to link entitled for you, so you know what it means? I'm saying I can get the best endings that the game has to offer w/out playing MP, and you're telling me that, since that was how the game was sold, I'm feeling entitled? Entitled to what, exactly? Getting what I paid for? I'm getting it every time, both times, I allow myself to get past getting nuked by Harbinger. They don't need to change anything in the game to give me what I feel entitled to. I'm getting what I paid for. I've already covered this, however. I realize it's a bitter pill to swallow, but you're the one here asking for more stuff, and acting like everyone that disagrees is wrong. This is classic entitlement behavior.hornedfrog87 wrote...
You are still seeing through the lens of what you feel entitled to. MP, as stated before, has a direct effect on the outcome of the storyline's outcome and as such, since its effects are already existent, remains to be part of the games entirety whether you or I like it or not. This is how it is. I began to play MP, not because I enjoyed it nor because I wanted to. I vehemently disagreed with its impact on the ending and played it out of spite so I would never have to play it again. Arguing that something is supposed to be this way or that way will yield no progression, as no solutions beneficial to both parties are provided due in part to pride. However, I recognize it to be a large part of the game because for some players you can achieve the best ending by playing MP alone and absolutely failing in SP; while I do not agree with the structure, I acknowledge it for what it is and offer a proposed solution. The entire hypothetical solution hung on the fact that A) Bioware wants MP to be successful, so promote it and
emanziboy wrote...
All those extra N7 ground troops will help you take out 2 kilometer capital ships...how, exactly?
/thread
D24O wrote...
emanziboy wrote...
All those extra N7 ground troops will help you take out 2 kilometer capital ships...how, exactly?
/thread
Launch them out of the DA's main gun. A regular dreadnought shell is like 5kg, think of the massive damage you could do.
hornedfrog87 wrote...
Tyeme Downs wrote...
This is just another attempt to get a different ending. The biggest problem with it is trying to force MP to acheive it.
PS. You have 34 promotes in MP which adds 2550 in N7 war assets. Your not at 10-11k total assects.....yet. More like 7k.
False. I tend to have around 100% readiness. Now couple that with all potential SP assets with DLC and I believe that totals 7.5k. Add 2550 and there you go. I can potentially get a picture up within an hour or two, but it totals out.
Mystiq6 wrote...
War assets are used for nothing more than defense of the Crucible. You build it as is, but the number of war assets you have determines how damaged it becomes during the fight with the reapers, which determines how well it works. The best it can do is destroy all synthetics.
Tyeme Downs wrote...
hornedfrog87 wrote...
Tyeme Downs wrote...
This is just another attempt to get a different ending. The biggest problem with it is trying to force MP to acheive it.
PS. You have 34 promotes in MP which adds 2550 in N7 war assets. Your not at 10-11k total assects.....yet. More like 7k.
False. I tend to have around 100% readiness. Now couple that with all potential SP assets with DLC and I believe that totals 7.5k. Add 2550 and there you go. I can potentially get a picture up within an hour or two, but it totals out.
So, if you scrape everything together, have ME 1 and 2 assects, have all the DLC assects, and your current MP assects you can potentially get to 10k.
And that should change the ending you get why? I suppose using your game logic the Reapers could pull resources from any of their other fronts across the galaxy in response to your extra assects.
At some point you either accept that the Reapers can not be defeated except with the crucible, or you don't. No amount of assects you gather is going to make a difference....it's part of the story. Whatever assects you gather at Earth are not fighting somewhere else. This frees the Reapers to send more of their assects to Earth.
ShepComing4U wrote...
Why should working hard and doing every possible thing right to create alliances throughout the entire trilogy change the ending? Because 10k is much larger than the requirement for a pretty good destroy ending. Also, its *assets*,not assects.
"No amount of assects you gather is going to make a difference" So, please explain why the amount of *ahem* assects, determines how many endings you unlocked, and how much damage the crucible causes in destroy. (Vaporization, relays blowing up, etc. in the worst, and everything mostly good in the best. Plus the middle ground one as well.) <_<
Also, the Reapers already pulled a good chunk of their resources from other parts of the galaxy to defend the Citadel. Everyone knows the battle is won or lost at Earth.
Ok, I've seen a lot of arguments for
and against conventional victory, with people outright labeling a
conventional victory as an imposibility.
I personally disagree
with this notion and I'm going to give a fully detailed response to why
I find that victory over the reapers is possible.
Firstly a list of points that will be pointed out here.
-- The defenses of Palaven and Thessia
-- Reaper Tactics based on statements by Javik and Vigil, along with other statements made in game.
-- Reaper tactics in this war and how they've been affected by the Prothean's interference.
-- Conclusion.
Now, to start off, Palaven and Thessia.
Whenthe Reapers first arrived in the galaxy, they struck at all the primarycouncil races, this we know, for the Turian's however this process was more than just landing on Palaven and starting to blow random **** up.
TheReapers first attacked a Turian Colony known as Taetrus. This Colony had great cultural significance to the aformentioned species. It'd be like attacking the great wall, or buckingham palace or the alamo or any number of culturally significant sites for any country.
The long and short of it is that Turians, not wanting to let a place as significant as say the washington monument, lady liberty, the white house, the eifel tower ect ect, fall threw everything they had at the opening salvo of the war, trying to overwhelm the reapers with brute force which worked about as well as a baby human headbutting a krogan considering that the Reapers had been counting on such a reaction, and had indeed BAITED them into doing it.
When the Reapers struck at Palaven however they found themselves facing a well supplied, entrenched
and fully prepared force of enemies that were willing to take them on piece meal. Which is why the Reapers were having so much trouble taking Menae, with none of their capital ships even able to get close to the anti orbit guns the Turians had to defend Palaven.
Which brings me to this point, The Turians gave the Reapers pause, a great deal of pause right at the opening of the war even after the bulk of their fleethad suffered a crushing defeat over the skies of Taetrus.
Now, on Thessia the Asari had been running a fairly successful hit and run campaign against the Reaper fleet taking down multiple destroyers as well as capital ships, until they (reapers) actually arrived at Thessia itself and started doing their A typical destruction of the surface. Then the Asari, same as the Turians, tried to dig in their heels and hold them off without giving another inch of ground.
Which again worked about as well as a baby human trying to stop a charging Krogan.
Whichbrings me to my point. Try to dig your heels in and the Reapers will just steamroll right over you. They have more numbers, more firepower, and are just overall better than you are.
The Asari and Turian fleets were crippled by BAD decisions in the opening theaters of war, now that they know the stakes these fleets can and DID adjust their tactics acordingly judging by the codex entries you recieve with Dianna Allers on the Normandy, which shows that both Turians and Asari were winning key victories against Reaper SHIPS not just ground forces.
Now, on to segment number two.
Both Vigil and Javik say the exact same thing about the Prothean fall.
"They went system by system. Planet by Planet."
Vigiland Javik BOTH say that the Reapers FOCUSSED their efforts. Which they COULD do because before the Prothean sabotage of the Citadel the Reaperscould both open the Citadel Relay, and deactivate every Mass Relay fromthe Citadel itself, thus, shattering all resistance into little more than piecemeal efforts they could steam roll over at their leisure.
They can't do either one during this Cycle.
Which brings me to point number 3
Thismeans that the Reapers, for once, are out of their depth and need to spread their fleet out to the ENTIRE galaxy in order to keep the races off balance, not giving them a chance to organize.
They have thenumbers for it but this means that they're spread very very thin in some places like Rannoch which just had ONE reaper.
The BULK of the Reaper forces is present in 4 locations.
Earth, Thessia, Palaven, Sur-kesh with perhaps a contingent on Tuchanka to try and bog down the Krogan.
Thisis not the crushing, systematic destruction of every planet and every system one at a time like Javik and Vigil explained.. This is a war of atrition. The reapers have the advantage because they don't have supply lines or anything that can be "worn down" in the conventional sense but that doesn't change the fact that they're spread very very thin right now.
Consider our galaxy a bull with multiple spears stuck in himwith a net around him. Sure the longer we sit there the weaker we're getting but that doesn't change the fact that if you get careless too soon that bulls gonna put a hoof or horn right up your ass.
Which now leads me to point number four.
The Reapers around Earth.
The Reapers consolidated their power around the Citadel and Earth ONLY AFTER the catalysts nature was revealed to them.
Thistells me that the Reapers simply DIDN'T HAVE THE MANPOWER to divert to anon priority target like the Citadel that really gives no resources to the various planets. Its a hub of civilians but it PROVIDES nothing to
the council worlds. It gives no ships, no food, no supplies, nothing, everything is IMPORTED into the Citadel if it was self contained the prothean scientists wouldn't have starved to death.
So when the Catalyst was revealed to them it turned into a massive priority to protect, but also an incredible inconvenience, forcing them to divert nearly every capital ship they had from the various council planets to
defend the Citadel from this MASSIVE fleet that was bringing the crucible right to them.
This means that the moment the forces of the galaxy above earth BEAT the reaper fleet above earth, you've effectively broken the back of the Reaper fleet.
They have more numbers, but the simple fact that they HAVE to keep the pressure on every other location in the galaxy, lest you give time to the race on that plannet some room to breathe, regroup and launch a counter strike
means that they're TIED DOWN. Every planet until it is PURGED from top to botom of all life is a ball and chain strapped to the reapers legs.
Winat Earth, and the Reapers have no room to manuever whereas Humanity andthe Council fleets get some much needed breathing room.
The war would go on for DECADES and it'd still be touch and go for the first year after defeat, but is conventional victory a possibility? Definitely. The galactic races would just have to adopt the reapers own tactics with the power of their united fleet, going system by system, planet by planet and wiping it clean of Reaper ships before moving onto the next.
And that's my take on why conventional victory is possible.
Modifié par ld1449, 27 août 2012 - 05:25 .
With that logic, with extremely high EMS, the Crucible isn't even touched, so now the energy discriminates and it only kills Reapers, not all synthetics.Andy the Black wrote...
Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
Then why does EMS affect the fact whether Earth and everything is destroyed or not?Andy the Black wrote...
hornedfrog87 wrote...
Mystiq6 wrote...
War assets are used for nothing more than defense of the Crucible. You build it as is, but the number of war assets you have determines how damaged it becomes during the fight with the reapers, which determines how well it works. The best it can do is destroy all synthetics.
Which is why I am asking what I am asking for: a more refined Crucible so well protected and perfected it targets simply the Reapers and the Reapers alone.
Because the Crucible is working perfectly when it wipes out the Geth and kills EDI. It's design is to kill all synthetic life, no amont of extra protection is going to be able to change that.
In my opinion surplus EMS should go to determining how affective the fleets are in the refusal ending.
Because with low EMS the Crucible basically gets a Stone Cold Stunner from the Reapers and is so heavily damaged that the energy it releases isn't refined or controlled. Think of it sort of like a floodgate, with it we can control the energy, get it to only target synthetic life. But blow it off by not having enough ship to defend the Crucible and there is no stoping it, It destroys everything, Reapers, ships, people, and the relays.
Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
With that logic, with extremely high EMS, the Crucible isn't even touched, so now the energy discriminates and it only kills Reapers, not all synthetics.Andy the Black wrote...
Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
Then why does EMS affect the fact whether Earth and everything is destroyed or not?Andy the Black wrote...
hornedfrog87 wrote...
Mystiq6 wrote...
War assets are used for nothing more than defense of the Crucible. You build it as is, but the number of war assets you have determines how damaged it becomes during the fight with the reapers, which determines how well it works. The best it can do is destroy all synthetics.
Which is why I am asking what I am asking for: a more refined Crucible so well protected and perfected it targets simply the Reapers and the Reapers alone.
Because the Crucible is working perfectly when it wipes out the Geth and kills EDI. It's design is to kill all synthetic life, no amont of extra protection is going to be able to change that.
In my opinion surplus EMS should go to determining how affective the fleets are in the refusal ending.
Because with low EMS the Crucible basically gets a Stone Cold Stunner from the Reapers and is so heavily damaged that the energy it releases isn't refined or controlled. Think of it sort of like a floodgate, with it we can control the energy, get it to only target synthetic life. But blow it off by not having enough ship to defend the Crucible and there is no stoping it, It destroys everything, Reapers, ships, people, and the relays.
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