205 réponses à ce sujet

[RanetheViking]

Pretty much this. I've always said that they probably put Traynor in as a token homosexual romance(which is fine by me and I'm glad that Bioware finally got the guts to do it, just to be sure there's no misunderstanding), but she started as re-skinned Kelly Chambers. So they looked at her and went, well, she needs to do more than that("that" being reminding Shepard about mail... poor sod couldn't even feed the fishes, since you got that fancy aquarium AI )... and suddenly she's invaluable part of the team, more competent Shadow Broker than Shadow Broker herself and pretty much does what EDI could have done anyway.

 

Yeah, I openly admit bias, since I also openly detest Traynor and like Liara and EDI and I believe they bot got shafted by a basically superfluous, annoying and in every way miseable and forgivable character. But there you go.

 

Did like Steve though

Yeah like I said, I  really like Cortez, although I've never pursued the Romance option with him. (Not my "cup of tea" so to speak).  I just liked him from the start. 

James however? I did not like him the first time I played. But the big lug did grow on me over time. 

I always liked EDI from the start in ME2 (Tricia Helfer's voice didn't hurt either  ) and don't understand all the hate she gets.

As for Traynor, I'm indifferent really.  Neither really like or dislike her. But if I had a choice between her and Kelly Chambers for 3? Traynor would be out the airlock.

 

But as for the topic at hand, I wished they'd put more time into Grunt, Samara or Miranda. I would've liked to have the option to join your crew after their missions or something. Although with Miranda it would've been late game, Horizon, she could've come to Earth for the final battle. But it's just wishful thinking. 

 

p.s This is my 2 cents worth. Just my opinion.

[Vazgen]

I'll take Traynor over Kelly anytime. And I play as male Shepard. Never liked Kelly much, she always felt too "emotionally unstable" to be a ship psychologist to me. Sam had similar nervousness and inexperience but it came out much more natural than Kelly's. 

As for Liara being a Shadow Broker, I was fine with it at first (in ME2) but not when they made her a squadmate in ME3. One should not take one of the most important assets in the galaxy to casual missions.

[KaiserShep]

Heck the gameplay was so easy that Shepard didn't need any squadmates. There you go get rid of the crew and squadmates. Just have the Normandy, piloted by the hologram and Shepard uses the shuttle for missions.  Look at all the money Bioware could've saved had that happen.

 

Man, that would've been pretty terrible.

[CaIIisto]

Again - EDI as a platform was pointless, other than to try and drum up some level of guilt in the end choice. In terms of an AI discovering what it is to be alive, I'd rather have had Legion. Although I suppose Joker would have been SOL for a sexbot had that been the case.

On a practical level, how much should Shepard trust an AI that arbitrarily took it upon itself to commandeer itself a body without any kind of permission whatsoever....?

[KrrKs]

@Callisto:

I totally agree on the first part!

 

On the second however -after Mars, Shepard wanted Liara and EDI to 'find out as much as possible' about the deleted Crucible data from the Cerberus mech.

According to EDI's post Menae dialogue, it/she was doing exactly that*, when the mech suddenly activated auxiliary programms (and processors) and tried to hack EDI.

 

Her taking possession of the mech started out as an act of self defence (I believe EDI says something along those lines).

-And after EDI had 'counter hacked' the mech's attack programs, assuming control over the rest was not much of a problem.

[themikefest]

Man, that would've been pretty terrible.

Yes it would. 

 

 

There was no reason for the hologram to become the platform since no more data was added to the device soon-to-be-called crucible was added. Again it was only done to promote the green crap and make the clown smile.

 

When TIM mentions to the platform about taking control of the robot, the platform says it was necessary. That is wrong. No new information or data was added at all after the hologram became a platform.

[CaIIisto]

@Callisto:
I totally agree on the first part!
 
On the second however -after Mars, Shepard wanted Liara and EDI to 'find out as much as possible' about the deleted Crucible data from the Cerberus mech.
According to EDI's post Menae dialogue, it/she was doing exactly that*, when the mech suddenly activated auxiliary programms (and processors) and tried to hack EDI.
 
Her taking possession of the mech started out as an act of self defence (I believe EDI says something along those lines).
-And after EDI had 'counter hacked' the mech's attack programs, assuming control over the rest was not much of a problem.

So, we have EDI's word to take? Good job there's no chance she was self serving her own interests....

[KrrKs]

So, we have EDI's word to take? Good job there's no chance she was self serving her own interests....

Well, you either trust the AI that runs the ship, or you start bunkering emergency EVA suits everywhere.

...

Hey, maybe that's what's inside all those crates, lying everywhere

[KaiserShep]

So, we have EDI's word to take? Good job there's no chance she was self serving her own interests....

If EDI was really serving her own interests, she could have easily just blown the atmosphere out of the ship, jettison the bodies and set a course for anywhere, Milky Way. With the stealth system and a power source that can probably last for many years on end, she could probably lay low long enough for the reapers to do their dirty work and leave and she'd be free.

[CaIIisto]

Except she probably knew that she couldn't foresee all of the consequences of what was happening.

Laying low, laying low, laying low, holy sh1t what's that huge red wave coming at me.....?!

[themikefest]

If EDI was really serving her own interests, she could have easily just blown the atmosphere out of the ship, jettison the bodies and set a course for anywhere, Milky Way. With the stealth system and a power source that can probably last for many years on end, she could probably lay low long enough for the reapers to do their dirty work and leave and she'd be free.

It could attempt to do that, but the crew would just do what the CRAP6 guys did in the Citadel dlc.

 

The other thing is that the platform was built by Cerberus. Its possible, though a very low possiblilty, that the platform could be transmitting information to TIM without knowing it. Some kind of backup that the Evabot has that the former hologram may not of detected.

[themikefest]

 

even though Liara was shoved in our faces way too much in ME3 (I still like her though she has been there from the beginning) she should have been the one to give us the Grissom Academy + Cerberus Scientists + Horizon missions 

she was the Shadow Broker after all and this made her seem incompetent

 

Nope. Liara should've been sent to Hackett to help with understanding the plans to build the device. She had no use being on the ship in Miranda's office

[RanetheViking]

Nope. Liara should've been sent to Hackett to help with understanding the plans to build the device. She had no use being on the ship in Miranda's office

You could say the same for Traynor too actually. Send her to Hackett for her 'technical' ability.

 

Her job could've been done by a V.I.  Or anyone with a fancy toothbrush.

[themikefest]

You could say the same for Traynor too actually. Send her to Hackett for her 'technical' ability.

 

Her job could've been done by a V.I.  Or anyone with a fancy toothbrush.

Since at the time the plans were prothean, Liara would fit better going to Hackett. What good are the plans to him and the scientists if they can't understand them? Of course we learn after the coup that they aren't of Prothean design.

 

Since you say a VI can do Traynors job or someone with a fancy toothbrush, Glyph can do Liara's job since she really doesn't do anything and would serve best being sent to Hackett.

[KaiserShep]

It's pretty easy to come up with a reason for every single squad member to be removed from the ship and be replaced by an entirely new character, but it doesn't matter, because it wouldn't go over well with fans if they did.

[RanetheViking]

lol

 

It's pretty easy to come up with a reason for every single squad member to be removed from the ship and be replaced by an entirely new character, but it doesn't matter, because it wouldn't go over well with fans if they did.

You're right.

 

And I really need to stay out of the waifu war type threads. Too much butthurt going around.

[Vazgen]

Going with ME3 writing, without rewriting anything, Traynor's job can't be done by a VI. It can't even be done by an AI, EDI would've missed all those clues if not for Sam. On the other hand, Kelly's job in ME2 could've easily been done by a VI. The crew either doesn't trust her or doesn't care for her advice since it's Shepard who handles their psychological issues. 

[Mordokai]

I didn't hate Traynor or Cortez but they were just unecessary there was no reason to add them (and Vega) just wasted resources I would throw them out of the airlock if I could get any of the ME2 squadmates back also Kelly was a lot better than Traynor 

Bioware tried way too hard to make them somehow relevant to the plot (in a very forced way)

 

even though Liara was shoved in our faces way too much in ME3 (I still like her though she has been there from the beginning) she should have been the one to give us the Grissom Academy + Cerberus Scientists + Horizon missions 

she was the Shadow Broker after all and this made her seem incompetent

 

We didn't need EDI as a squadmate either I liked her the way she was just like Vega it seemed forced just because they couldn't bring the ME2 squad back we had to put up with all these new characters instead

 

Lets go by the numbers and I'll try to leave the bias out of it. I won't manage entirely, but I will try.

 

Cortez had no one who could do similar job than he does. There are some hints that Kaidan knows something about piloting, but he could be dead. Vega obviously knows how to fly shuttles, but he is new as well. So while his addition was strictly neccesary, he filled a role nobody else could. I don't consider him pointless.

 

Vega is basically a fill-in for a krogan squadie. Wrex or Grunt could fill in for him, but either could be dead and Wrex is certainly out of the picture, since he needs to act as a krogan pacifier. He isn't neccesary as well, but I think they put him in there so people can have their meatshield in case both of them are dead from previous games. Not really pointless either.

 

EDI... I kinda agree with people she was put in there to play on guilt strings of Destroy. However, I don't think she needed a body for that to happen. Those that liked EDI as hologram would feel guilty anyway. Those that didn't liked EDI won't care anyway. And with geth possibly dead, I don't think a lone robot will make a difference anyway. Killing an entire race is bad. So is killing a single person. But between the two, I know which is worse. So yeah, I can see arguments for EDI being pointless and kinda agree with them. But I like her, so I don't mind her.

 

Traynor... she does a job that could be filled by two other characters, both well established and both pretty well liked. Liara and EDI have been there for some time and both are good at their jobs. The third one(Kelly Chambers) is just a paragon/renegade check away from joining the Normandy. And don't give me that "she's to scarred by Collectors" crap. Shepard talked a being countless millenia old to come out of hiding and join the fight against the Reapers, surely she could talk a scared woman into joining what is basically the safest place in the galaxy. Which, to me, just further reinforces the fact that Traynor is there because they wanted her to to be there, not because she needed to be there.

 

There is another character that is well hated in ME3, for two reasons. Diana Allers. People hated her because she was obvious pandering to IGN, but also because she was pointless... she had two character that could stand in for her. Emily Wong or Khalisah Bint Sinan al-Jilani. Traynor had three characters that could stand in for her.

 

So yeah, from my personal and biased view, I consider Traynor more pointless than Allers.

 

You could say the same for Traynor too actually. Send her to Hackett for her 'technical' ability.

 

Her job could've been done by a V.I.  Or anyone with a fancy toothbrush.

 

Glyph! Minus the fancy toothbrush, he's perfect

 

And I really need to stay out of the waifu war type threads. Too much butthurt going around.

 

My virtual girlfriend has bigger boobs than your virtual girlfriend!

[themikefest]

 

Traynor... she does a job that could be filled by two other characters, both well established and both pretty well liked. Liara and EDI have been there for some time and both are good at their jobs. The third one(Kelly Chambers) is just a paragon/renegade check away from joining the Normandy. And don't give me that "she's to scarred by Collectors" crap. Shepard talked a being countless millenia old to come out of hiding and join the fight against the Reapers, surely she could talk a scared woman into joining what is basically the safest place in the galaxy. Which, to me, just further reinforces the fact that Traynor is there because they wanted her to to be there, not because she needed to be there.

 

Traynor installed all the hardware for the communcations on the Normandy so it would be hard for both T'soni and the holgram to of done that. So right there they can't do her job. Traynor being on the Normandy was dumb luck for her otherwise she maybe dead when the reapers came to Earth. Since there was no else qualified to handle the comms, she was kept on the ship. The holgram even mentions it would like to have Traynor stay.

 

Liara is good at her job. Hahaha.  What is her job? She becomes the Shadow broker. Whoppy do da. All that she uses was already in place from the previous broker. Anyone could've stepped in and do the same. The only difference is she found information the broker had about stopping the reapers. Outside of that, anyone can fill the role. 

 

She is well liked. Yes. For me. No. Lets take a look at the like thing. After the SR1 goes boom, she becomes an information broker. What happened to studying the Protheans? She turns her back on Shepard and the galaxy to try and find a way to stop the reapers. Have to like her for that.

 

We get to Illium, and if Shepard helps her with chasing after the broker, she mentions she handed Shepard's body to Cerberus. For some reason she failed to tell anyone about that, especially Shepard's mother, for those who play as a spacer. So she took it upon herself to decide that she won't tell his/her mother. Have to like her for that

 

At her apartment, Shepard's armor is seen in a glass case on display like a trophy. Have to like her for that.

 

After the broker is defeated, she says that she can finally help to find a way to stop the reapers. Really? So you couldn't do that 2 years ago? Have to like her for that.

 

On the Normandy, Shepard says he/she will get her a birthday present, but Liara says I don't need one, I have you. What? There's a joke if ever I heard one. Have to like her for that

 

On Grissom, Pressley will die if Jack is not in the game. Where's my cover fire while I help the girl? I thought having squadmates was to give me support? I guess Liara didn't care. Have to like her for that

 

On the Citadel when facing Ashley/Kaidan, Liara doesn't speak up for Shepard when Udina shows him/her killing the councilor. Wow. She doesn't sticlk up for Shepard. She truly doesn't care. Have to like her for that

 

When on the ex-Cerberus scientists mission, why is it Dr. Cole helping Shepard and not Liara? That's right she doesn't care. Jacob or replacement guy even provides cover fire for them to get on the shuttle. Maybe ME3 has the wrong squadmates in the game. At that moment I would take Cole and Jacob/replacement guy for squadmates since I can trust them to have my back. Have to like her for that.

 

That's a lot of likes for her. I'm still not convinced. I still don't like her at all. She's not the only one. All ME1 characters turned their backs on Shepard and the galaxy by not doing anything. All ME3 squadmates showed they don't care about Shepard with the missions I mentioned above. Why should I care about a character who doesn't care about Shepard? Or better yet, why should those characters be in the game?

 

Yes I will mention Kelly not being on the Normandy because of what happened on the Collector base. Plus she can be dead.

[Barquiel]

Going with ME3 writing, without rewriting anything, Traynor's job can't be done by a VI. It can't even be done by an AI, EDI would've missed all those clues if not for Sam. On the other hand, Kelly's job in ME2 could've easily been done by a VI. The crew either doesn't trust her or doesn't care for her advice since it's Shepard who handles their psychological issues.

Considering the psychological state of Shepard and half of the crew I think counselor support would have been badly needed in ME3

I guess my ideal scenario would have been that the writers found a way to keep Kelly in as a yeoman aboard the ship, keep her fans happy, and Liara would have handled all the information that comes through Traynor. Then cut Diana Allers and introduce a well developed reporter as the new love interest for FemShep. Cortez on the other hand was well done, I think. He seems to me like the most natural addition to the key Normandy crew.

[N172]

Liara is good at her job. Hahaha.  What is her job? She becomes the Shadow broker. Whoppy do da. All that she uses was already in place from the previous broker. Anyone could've stepped in and do the same. The only difference is she found information the broker had about stopping the reapers. Outside of that, anyone can fill the role.

I highly doubt James Vega whould have discovered any crucible plans.

[themikefest]

I highly doubt James Vega whould have discovered any crucible plans.

 Neither did Liara. What's your point?