658 réponses à ce sujet

[Shampoohorn]

peddroelmz wrote...

Shampoohorn wrote...
OP and team, two questions:

-Does the 15% Vulnerability from Warp5b:Expose also apply to melee damage? The wording would suggest otherwise: "Increase weapon damage taken by a target by 15%. Increase power damage taken by a target by 15% for 10 seconds." But as we know, the tooltip wording in the game is frequently wrong.


-Does the 40% damage resistance from hard cover continue to apply when weapons are hip-fired from hard cover? The hipfire animation is substantially different versus when guns are aimed/zoomed. It seems to me that I take less damage when hipfiring but that may just be due to having a smaller hitbox (or whatever) exposed to enemy fire.

1. no
2. yes . As long as you are facing towards the cover - you will get the cover DR even from enemies that flank you completely

1) I guess the huntress would be OP if that were a yes.  ;o)

2) Thanks, I thought so. I took my defensive justicar for a spin with the Revenant last night.  Bubble, reave, hardcover and then just held down the trigger for an entire clip.  Only real problem was it scion grenades scattering behind me.  She could go toe-to-toe vs pyros with that setup despite no DR from reave.

Modifié par Shampoohorn, 14 décembre 2012 - 05:21 .

[Learn To Love Yourself]

Not sure if this was asked already, or if others already know the answer to this, but:

If an Armor debuffing power, like Cryo Blast, Snap Freeze, Homing Grenades, etc is applied prior to another defense being dropped, such as shields or barriers. Will the debuff still apply to the armor once that defense is stripped within the debuff's duration?

[peddroelm]

MastahDisastah wrote...

MastahDisastah wrote...

Hey, can one of you please test if the typhoon really grants extra DR when fired from cover? Thanks in advance.

bump

NO .. Typhoon grants no DR - in cover or out of cover ...


KV with barrier on .. Alternated between talon and typhoon..
Bronze test wave 1 .. Attackers are Assault troopers (weapon damage , melee damage and the occasional grenade)



Shield Damage Received: 50.000000
Shield Damage Received: 50.000000
Shield Damage Received: 50.000000
Shield Damage Received: 50.000000
Shield Damage Received: 50.000000
Shield Damage Received: 188.000000
Shield Damage Received: 50.000000
Shield Damage Received: 50.000000
Shield Damage Received: 50.000000
Shield Damage Received: 50.000000
Shield Damage Received: 50.000000
Shield Damage Received: 50.000000
Shield Damage Received: 50.000000
Shield Damage Received: 188.000000
Shield Damage Received: 50.000000
Shield Damage Received: 50.000000
Shield Damage Received: 50.000000
Shield Damage Received: 50.000000
Shield Damage Received: 30.000000
Shield Damage Received: 30.000000
Shield Damage Received: 113.000000
Shield Damage Received: 113.000000
Shield Damage Received: 113.000000
Shield Damage Received: 113.000000
Shield Damage Received: 30.000000
Shield Damage Received: 30.000000
Shield Damage Received: 50.000000
Shield Damage Received: 50.000000
Shield Damage Received: 50.000000
Shield Damage Received: 50.000000
Shield Damage Received: 50.000000
Shield Damage Received: 50.000000
Shield Damage Received: 30.000000
Shield Damage Received: 30.000000
Shield Damage Received: 30.000000
Shield Damage Received: 30.000000
Shield Damage Received: 113.000000
Shield Damage Received: 30.000000
Shield Damage Received: 30.000000
Shield Damage Received: 30.000000
Shield Damage Received: 30.000000
Shield Damage Received: 30.000000
Shield Damage Received: 113.000000
Shield Damage Received: 50.000000
Shield Damage Received: 50.000000
Shield Damage Received: 50.000000
Shield Damage Received: 50.000000
Shield Damage Received: 50.000000
Shield Damage Received: 50.000000
Shield Damage Received: 50.000000
Shield Damage Received: 50.000000
Shield Damage Received: 30.000000
Shield Damage Received: 30.000000
Shield Damage Received: 30.000000
Shield Damage Received: 30.000000
Shield Damage Received: 30.000000
Shield Damage Received: 30.000000
Shield Damage Received: 375.000000
Shield Damage Received: 30.000000
Shield Damage Received: 30.000000
Shield Damage Received: 113.000000
Shield Damage Received: 30.000000
Shield Damage Received: 30.000000
Shield Damage Received: 113.000000
Shield Damage Received: 113.000000
Shield Damage Received: 30.000000
Shield Damage Received: 30.000000
Shield Damage Received: 30.000000
Shield Damage Received: 30.000000
Shield Damage Received: 50.000000
Shield Damage Received: 50.000000
Shield Damage Received: 50.000000
Shield Damage Received: 50.000000
Shield Damage Received: 50.000000
Shield Damage Received: 50.000000
Shield Damage Received: 50.000000
Shield Damage Received: 25.000000
Shield Damage Received: 25.000000
Shield Damage Received: 25.000000
Shield Damage Received: 50.000000
Shield Damage Received: 50.000000
Shield Damage Received: 25.000000
Shield Damage Received: 25.000000
Shield Damage Received: 50.000000
Shield Damage Received: 50.000000
Shield Damage Received: 625.000000


50 was the damage from their weapon out of cover
30 was the damage from their weapon when in cover
25 was the damage from their weapon during melee animation
113 was the damage from their melee when in cover
188 melee out of cover
375 grenade in cover
625 grenade out of cover

Modifié par peddroelmz, 14 décembre 2012 - 05:45 .

[BridgeBurner]

peddroelmz wrote...

MastahDisastah wrote...

MastahDisastah wrote...

Hey, can one of you please test if the typhoon really grants extra DR when fired from cover? Thanks in advance.

bump

NO .. Typhoon grants no DR - in cover or out of cover ...

Peddro, would you terribly mind PM'ing a certain Mr. Eric Fagnan with these findings?

One of the reasons he says they wont rebuff the typhoon is because it grants DR while in cover.... which by the looks of it your tests have proven to be either broken, bugged or not implemented at all.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

peddroelmz wrote...

Shampoohorn wrote...


OP and team, two questions:

-Does the 15% Vulnerability from Warp5b:Expose also apply to melee damage? The wording would suggest otherwise: "Increase weapon damage taken by a target by 15%. Increase power damage taken by a target by 15% for 10 seconds." But as we know, the tooltip wording in the game is frequently wrong.


-Does the 40% damage resistance from hard cover continue to apply when weapons are hip-fired from hard cover? The hipfire animation is substantially different versus when guns are aimed/zoomed. It seems to me that I take less damage when hipfiring but that may just be due to having a smaller hitbox (or whatever) exposed to enemy fire.

1. no
2. yes . As long as you are facing towards the cover - you will get the cover DR even from enemies that flank you completely

That's awesome.  I'll definitely have to make use of this more.  Like Shampoohorn, I thought this might be the case, but it's good to know for sure. 

Annomander wrote...

peddroelmz wrote...

MastahDisastah wrote...

MastahDisastah wrote...

Hey, can one of you please test if the typhoon really grants extra DR when fired from cover? Thanks in advance.

bump

NO .. Typhoon grants no DR - in cover or out of cover ...

Peddro, would you terribly mind PM'ing a certain Mr. Eric Fagnan with these findings?

One
of the reasons he says they wont rebuff the typhoon is because it
grants DR while in cover.... which by the looks of it your tests have
proven to be either broken, bugged or not implemented at all.

Unfortunately, this seems to be a pattern in this game - implementation not matching design.  Where Fagnan's concept of how something performs isn't actually working in the game.

Modifié par CmnDwnWrkn, 14 décembre 2012 - 05:51 .

[Heggy]

Annomander wrote...

peddroelmz wrote...

MastahDisastah wrote...

MastahDisastah wrote...

Hey, can one of you please test if the typhoon really grants extra DR when fired from cover? Thanks in advance.

bump

NO .. Typhoon grants no DR - in cover or out of cover ...

Peddro, would you terribly mind PM'ing a certain Mr. Eric Fagnan with these findings?

One of the reasons he says they wont rebuff the typhoon is because it grants DR while in cover.... which by the looks of it your tests have proven to be either broken, bugged or not implemented at all.

Do you have a link to where that was said?

[peddroelm]

Annomander wrote...

peddroelmz wrote...

MastahDisastah wrote...

MastahDisastah wrote...

Hey, can one of you please test if the typhoon really grants extra DR when fired from cover? Thanks in advance.

bump

NO .. Typhoon grants no DR - in cover or out of cover ...

Peddro, would you terribly mind PM'ing a certain Mr. Eric Fagnan with these findings?

One of the reasons he says they wont rebuff the typhoon is because it grants DR while in cover.... which by the looks of it your tests have proven to be either broken, bugged or not implemented at all.

I will ..Still there are other weapons with more need of buffing ..  Any typhoon buff will affect the TGI + Typhoon combo that is already pretty OP (mostly because of the TGI but typhoon also plays a role...)

Modifié par peddroelmz, 14 décembre 2012 - 05:56 .

[BridgeBurner]

Heggy wrote...

Do you have a link to where that was said?

Send Jay a PM, Jay asked Fagnan about possibly rebuffing the typhoon and was told that "they must conisder all factors, including the increased DR while in cover" which (according to our resident mad scientist peddro) is apparently not true.

Which makes me hope to see the typhoon worked on a bit, particularly as its extremely unlikely that they can fix the +DR component of the typhoon without a patch if indeed it is broken.

Modifié par Annomander, 14 décembre 2012 - 06:06 .

[Deerber]

Annomander wrote...

peddroelmz wrote...

MastahDisastah wrote...

MastahDisastah wrote...

Hey, can one of you please test if the typhoon really grants extra DR when fired from cover? Thanks in advance.

bump

NO .. Typhoon grants no DR - in cover or out of cover ...

Peddro, would you terribly mind PM'ing a certain Mr. Eric Fagnan with these findings?

One of the reasons he says they wont rebuff the typhoon is because it grants DR while in cover.... which by the looks of it your tests have proven to be either broken, bugged or not implemented at all.

Trolololol! 

[Jay_Hoxtatron]

Huh. Yeah, now I really think the Typhoon should be buffed.

[peddroelm]

Conclusions Sabotage 50% tech vulnerability

- DOES NOT AFFECT HOMMING GRENADE DAMAGE
- DOES NOT AFFECT SENTRY TURRET GUN DAMAGE
- DOES NOT AFFECT TSE light melee
- DOES AFFECT TSE heavy melee (global *1.5 multiplier)
- DOES AFFECT Tech combos (TB, FE, CE) (global *1.5 multiplier) (TSE can do serious TB damage vs shields) (sabotage + homming)

- Sentry turret gun damage is affected (suffers) from Armor DR like hit scan weapons

/////////////////////////
/////////////////////////
/////////////////////////

turian saboteur 1050 shields (200/600 base melee attack)

Turret damage 75 * (1+0.3)


20% PD (consumable)
30% WD + 20% WD in case headshot
35% MD (*1.5 shotgun add-on)
15% MD gear

Second weapon is paladin X with 40% WD barrel

Sabotage backfire 300* (1+0.6) and tech vulnerability
Homming grenade 800* (1+0.2 + 0.3) // *0.5 as 12 DOT ticks //* 1.6 vs armor

//////////////////////
//////////////////////


test vs silver Ravager (5400 armor)




Melee
Damage Received: 300.000000 LM
Damage Received: 300.000000
Damage Received: 675.000000 HM


Paladin X
Damage Received: 872.870117
Damage Received: 44.258301
Damage Received: 44.258301
Damage Received: 44.258301
Damage Received: 44.258301
Damage Received: 44.258301
Damage Received: 44.258301

Homming Grenade

Damage Received: 2176.000000 // impact
Damage Received: 90.666504 //DOT
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504

Sabotage + Homming

Damage Received: 2176.000000 // impact
Damage Received: 843.750000 // level 12 TB
Damage Received: 90.666504 //dot
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504


Turret fire in burst of 3 and is affected by armor DR

Damage Received: 82.500000 //(75 * 1.5) - 30 = 82.5
Damage Received: 82.500000
Damage Received: 82.500000

Sabotage + Turret (no extra damage)
Damage Received: 810.000000
Damage Received: 82.500000
Damage Received: 82.500000
Damage Received: 82.500000

Sabotage + HM
Damage Received: 810.000000
Damage Received: 1012.500000



Paladin + sabotage + 2 hommings


Damage Received: 872.870117 // paladin
Damage Received: 44.258301 // incendiary
Damage Received: 872.870117 //paladin
Damage Received: 810.000000 // sabotage
Damage Received: 168.454102 //incediary 2 stacks
Damage Received: 168.454102
Damage Received: 168.454102
Damage Received: 2176.000000 // homming impact
Damage Received: 843.750000 // TB
Damage Received: 168.454102 //incediary 2 stacks
Damage Received: 90.666504 // h DOT
Damage Received: 168.454102
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 168.454102
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 887.870117 // paladin impact (debuffed armor DR)
Damage Received: 343.966797
Damage Received: 887.870117 // paladin impact debuffed armor DR
Damage Received: 483.726563
Damage Received: 483.726563
Damage Received: 483.726563
Damage Received: 483.726563
Damage Received: 887.870117 // paladin impact debuffed armor DR
Damage Received: 411.979492
Damage Received: 810.000000 //sabotage
Damage Received: 411.979492
Damage Received: 411.979492
Damage Received: 411.979492
Damage Received: 2176.000000 //homming impact
Damage Received: 843.750000 //TB
Damage Received: 411.979492
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 411.979492
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504


lvl 7 Silver FE vs armor
100 * (1 + ((6 + 1 - 2) * 0.15)) * 2.25 * 2 = 787.5 // got this once without sabotage


lvl 12 silver TB vs armor *1.5 from tech vulnerability
100 * (1 + ((6 + 6 - 2) * 0.15)) * 2.25 * 1 * 1.5 = 843.75


Homming then sabotage

Damage Received: 2176.000000
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 810.000000 // sabotage
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504


///
sabotage + homming

Damage Received: 810.000000 //sabotage
Damage Received: 2176.000000 // h impact
Damage Received: 843.750000 // 6+6 TB *1.5
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504


100 * (1 + ((6 + 6 - 2) * 0.15)) * 2.25 * 1 * 1.5 = 843.75





Damage Received: 872.870117 //paladin impact
Damage Received: 44.258301
Damage Received: 872.870117 //paladin impact
Damage Received: 168.336914
Damage Received: 810.000000 // sabotage
Damage Received: 872.870117 //paladin impact
Damage Received: 266.448730
Damage Received: 266.448730
Damage Received: 266.448730
Damage Received: 266.448730
Damage Received: 2176.000000 // homming impact
Damage Received: 1181.250000 // silver FE 7+1 vs armor
Damage Received: 266.448730
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 266.448730
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 2176.000000 //homming impact
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504


silver FE 7+1 vs armor with 50% tech vulnerability bonus
100 * (1 + ((6 + 1 - 2) * 0.15)) * 2.25 * 1.5 * 2 = 1181.25


Sentry turret + Homming (sentry turret is affected by Armor Dr)

Damage Received: 82.500000
Damage Received: 82.500000
Damage Received: 82.500000
Damage Received: 2176.000000
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 97.500000
Damage Received: 90.666504
Damage Received: 97.500000
Damage Received: 97.500000

Modifié par peddroelmz, 14 décembre 2012 - 08:57 .

[BridgeBurner]

peddroelmz wrote...

Conclusions Sabotage 50% tech vulnerability

- DOES NOT AFFECT HOMMING GRENADE DAMAGE
- DOES NOT AFFECT SENTRY TURRET DAMAGE
- DOES NOT AFFECT TSE light melee
- DOES AFFECT TSE heavy melee (global *1.5 multiplier)
- DOES AFFECT Tech combos (TB, FE, CE) (global *1.5 multiplier) (TSE can do serious TB damage vs shields) (sabotage + homming)

Ouch.

[Learn To Love Yourself]

Annomander wrote...

peddroelmz wrote...

Conclusions Sabotage 50% tech vulnerability

- DOES NOT AFFECT HOMMING GRENADE DAMAGE
- DOES NOT AFFECT SENTRY TURRET DAMAGE
- DOES NOT AFFECT TSE light melee
- DOES AFFECT TSE heavy melee (global *1.5 multiplier)
- DOES AFFECT Tech combos (TB, FE, CE) (global *1.5 multiplier) (TSE can do serious TB damage vs shields) (sabotage + homming)

Ouch.

Ouch is right.  This saddens me deeply.
Someone asked in the other thread if Sentry Turret's Flamer (might as well ask about rockets, too) is affected by Tech Vulnerability.  I'd like to know this, as well.

[Shampoohorn]

Annomander wrote...

peddroelmz wrote...
Conclusions Sabotage 50% tech vulnerability

- DOES NOT AFFECT HOMMING GRENADE DAMAGE
- DOES NOT AFFECT SENTRY TURRET DAMAGE
- DOES NOT AFFECT TSE light melee
- DOES AFFECT TSE heavy melee (global *1.5 multiplier)
- DOES AFFECT Tech combos (TB, FE, CE) (global *1.5 multiplier) (TSE can do serious TB damage vs shields) (sabotage + homming)

Ouch.

Dammit, I wanted that extra boost to Homing Grenades!  Are Arc grenades the only 'tech' grenades?

I will hope that T.V. at least affects the Turret's Flamethrower.

[peddroelm]

my sentry turret had only 3 points - the flamer test will have to wait for another day

[Zjarcal]

Jack Crapper wrote...

Annomander wrote...

peddroelmz wrote...

Conclusions Sabotage 50% tech vulnerability

- DOES NOT AFFECT HOMMING GRENADE DAMAGE
- DOES NOT AFFECT SENTRY TURRET DAMAGE
- DOES NOT AFFECT TSE light melee
- DOES AFFECT TSE heavy melee (global *1.5 multiplier)
- DOES AFFECT Tech combos (TB, FE, CE) (global *1.5 multiplier) (TSE can do serious TB damage vs shields) (sabotage + homming)

Ouch.

Ouch is right.  This saddens me deeply.

Ouch to the third power... 

BUT, the fact that it does affect tech combos is at least something, and probably the reason why I was feeling the homming grenades actually were being affected by the TV. I guess it's... not that bad after all?

[X-Frame]

Apologies if this has been discussed or tested already but is there any truth to the rumor that the Phoenix classes have bugged Fitness trees and that there is not any difference between leaving it empty vs. filling it and maxing health/shields? Or maybe it was a bugged shield/health gate specific to them?

Thanks!

[Shampoohorn]

X-Frame wrote...

Apologies if this has been discussed or tested already but is there any truth to the rumor that the Phoenix classes have bugged Fitness trees and that there is not any difference between leaving it empty vs. filling it and maxing health/shields? Or maybe it was a bugged shield/health gate specific to them?

Thanks!

No substantiation has ever been shown.  This has been considered false since a while back.

[Learn To Love Yourself]

corlist wrote...

Arctican wrote...

Are Homing Grenades considered tech, or is it just the DOT effect, or neither (does the engineering kits affect the damage)? Asking for the sake of knowing if Tech Vulnerability from Sabotage benefits Homing Grenades or not. Also, I'm seeing a few posts from the past saying Arc Grenades aren't actually tech powers either.

Both tech powers.

Demolisher
No passives
Arc Grenade 1
Homing Grenade 1
Engineering Kit V (+15% tech)

cannibal 1 damage: 460.000000 //Arc: 400 * (1 + 0.15) = 460
cannibal 1 damage: 920.000000 //Homing: 800 * (1 + 0.15) = 920

Has this been tested with other grenades?  I'm wondering if it might be Engineering Kit that might be bugged, since it has been found that Tech Vulnerability from Sabotage doesn't provide any damage bonus for Homing Grenades.

Maybe try with Frags?

[peddroelm]

MastahDisastah wrote...

Thanks peddro for the recent findings.
Let us know if you test the flamethrower, thanks!

I did sentry turret mechanics//tests

[LoonySpectre]

I had Cobra equipped when Banshee grabbed me and managed to kill it with missile before it killed me. It seems that there is a very small window in the beginning of the animation when you can still save yourself with Cobra. Can you test it?

[peddroelm]

Jack Crapper wrote...

Has this been tested with other grenades?  I'm wondering if it might be Engineering Kit that might be bugged, since it has been found that Tech Vulnerability from Sabotage doesn't provide any damage bonus for Homing Grenades.

Maybe try with Frags?

Tests results in the sentry turret mechanics thread

Engineering Gear + grenades tests

Multifrags No
Regular Frags No
Sticky No
Inferno No
Homing  Yes
Arc Yes

None of those grenades get the tech vulnerability damage bonus ...

LoonySpectre wrote...




I had Cobra equipped when Banshee grabbed me and managed to kill it with missile before it killed me. It seems that there is a very small window in the beginning of the animation when you can still save yourself with Cobra. Can you test it?

No

Modifié par peddroelmz, 16 décembre 2012 - 09:22 .

[d_nought]

This isn't a request for a test, but I'd like to ask about putting points in damage resistance vs points in fitness. Is there a black and white rule for one over the other, or is it dependent upon the character's fitness tree/DR power? I ask because I'm not really all that sure how to convert DR to effective hitpoints.