658 réponses à ce sujet

[BjornDaDwarf]

As always, terrific work. There are some fascinating things in Shadow Strike that I want to play around with now. Was not expecting it to count as a tech power.

[yarpenthemad21]

thx for shadow strike formula, good to know that it's tech power
It's bug as hell in "positive" way (double TC bonus, bonus from power damage) but without those bugs damage would be just funny...

[Tybo]

Creakazoid wrote...

Reegar please.

I'd like to know how its 5x burst count manifest in-game. Without something like that, the DPS is way too low on paper.

Good luck with that.  I believe Cyonan spent some time trying to test it before giving up.  Everything I've done with it gives inconsistent damage numbers as well.

I'd really like to know how it works though.  And, if anyone's going to figure it out, it will probably be peddroelmz...

[MaxShine]

Reegar, please If possible with and without ammo powers and the influence of the shredder mod. The reegar is strange... Sometimes I can just melt armor and sometimes it does almost nothing to armor. I believe there are some combinations of ammo power and weapon mods that are a bit buggy...

[peddroelm]

Preliminary Reegar test (seems to shoot 8 pellets and not ignore armor)


=================================

Reegar X 66 damage

25% WD EB weapon add-on
10% WD shotgun amp III gear

Calculated damage per shot/pellet/ ?
66 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.1) = 89.1

Tests vs Silver cannibal

Remaining HP after 1 ammo fired

Results are inconsistent but they are all multiples of what I calculated as base damage..
Cannibal's constant dancing around might be causing pellets to miss ..

1350 - 904.5001 = 445.4999 = 5* 89.1
1350 - 993.6 = 356.4 = 4 * 89.1
1350 - 1082.7 = 267.3 = 3 * 89.1

Time to test Ravager (a much more docile and immobile test subject)

5400 - 5163.6015 = 236.3985
5400 - 5163.6015
5400 - 5163.6015

Always consistent ...Problem is how is it calculated ?

(66*(1+0.25+0.1) - 30) * 0.5 = 29.55 //expected damage per pellet vs silver armor DR
236.3985 / 29.55 = 7.9999 Reegar Fires 8 pellets ??


===============

Next test Destroyer (maybe devastator mode accuracy boost will help with testing)

Reegar X 66 base damage (25% WD EB + accuracy choke)

Devastaror mode 30% WD bonus
passive 27.5 % WD bonus

1650 shields (-500 with missile)

AP ammo III (30% Ammo Damage 70% AP)
Shotgun Amp III (10% WD)

Estimated single shot damage vs Gold armor DR
((66 * 0.3) + (((66 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.3 + 0.275 + 0.1)) - (50 * (1 - 0.7))) * 0.5)) * 8 = 606.6

And vs health
66 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.3 + 0.275 + 0.1) * 8 = 1016.4

time to put it to the test

VS gold ravager
8100 - 7483.4023 = 616.5977
7483.40234375
7483.40234375

Consistent results .. but the calculated value its a bit off (10 points)
((66 * 0.3) + (((66 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.3 + 0.275 + 0.1)) - (50 * (1 - 0.7))) * 0.5)) * 8 = 606.6 ?????

Devastator mode off
Expected
((66 * 0.3) + (((66 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.275 + 0.1)) - (50 * (1 - 0.7))) * 0.5)) * 8 = 527.4
Measured
8100 - 7562.6015 = 537.3985

Again same 10 damage point difference .. What am I missing ?!?@?!?!?

10/ 8 = 1.25 - damage per pellet is off by 1.25 in both cases

Seems I'll need to test vs cannibal and check damage per pellet ...
==================================

Raptor X aimed shot (DM off,)

8100 - 7996.1225 = 103.8775
(97.7 * 0.3) + (97.7 * (1 + 0.275)) - (50 * (1 - 0.7)) = 138.8775 // calculated
(97.7 * 0.3) + (97.7 * (1 + 0.275)) - (50 * (1 - 0)) = 103.8775 //accounting for the AP ammo bug OK

No additional damage multipliers

Will call this one inconclusive... More tests tomorrow ...

======================

More destroyer tests - vs silver Geth

Reegar X 25% WD eb no secondary weapon no accuracy choke

Densified ammunition 4% WD

30% WD DM
27.5% WD Passive

Calculated damage vs health
66 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.04 + 0.3 + 0.275) * 8 = 984.72
Calculated damage vs shield
66 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.04 + 0.3 + 0.275) * 2 * 8 = 1969.44
Calculated damage vs silver 30 armor DR
((66 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.04 + 0.3 + 0.275)) - 30) * 0.5 * 8 = 372.36


silver geth trooper health 1238 (table)
silver geth prime 7875 shields /11250 armor (table)

To the test

Geth Trooper Health ( 1237.5 health observed in game)
Measured
1237.5 - 252.7799 = 984.7201 OK EXCELLENT
1237.5 - 252.7799 = 984.7201
Calculated
66 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.04 + 0.3 + 0.275) * 8 = 984.72

Geth Prime shield

First shot
7875 - 6640 = 1235
Second shot
7875 - 6146 = 1729
Third shot
7875 - 5899 = 1976
Calculated
66 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.04 + 0.3 + 0.275) * 2 * 8 = 1969.44 OK

I WOULD CALL THIS OK (keep in mind 8 shield to integer rounding occurred there)..
Also notice how "pellets can miss" at point blank range from a target as massive as the geth prime with a class with accuracy bonus ...

Geth Prime Armor

First shot
11250 - 10924.1855 = 325.8145
Second Shot
11250 - 10 877.6406 = 372.3594
((66 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.04 + 0.3 + 0.275)) - 30) * 0.5 * 8 = 372.36 OK

Overall I'm pretty satisfied with what I've gotten from Reegar so far so for the time being I will stop reegar tests.. Conclusions bellow

Modifié par peddroelmz, 29 août 2012 - 04:51 .

[peddroelm]

Reegar

- can get headshots (included for completness - most relevant when fighting geth pyros)
- fires 8 "pellets" per shot
- awfully innacurate or has collison problems - some of them can [miss/go trough] even at point blank range - this makes Reegar DPS calculations - maximal/ideal DPS rarely obtainable in game ...
- does not ignore armor (benefits from armor weakening/piercing greatly)
- ammo damage does not get the *0.5 nerf vs armor ... Another reason AP ammo can add a ton of damage to Reegar vs armor ...

===============
===============
Example

Reegar X vs Gold Armor (50 DR) - no bonuses in play
(66 - 50) * 0.5 * 8 = 64

Add AP ammo IV
(66 * 0.5 + (66 - 50 * (1 - 0.9)) * 0.5) * 8 = 508 (remember 1k rof)

Just by adding AP ammo IV it makes it one of the top (BEST ?) weapons in the game vs armor ...

===================
===================

Example II

equivalenting Reegar to an automatic weapon single bullet vs shields

66 * 8 * 2 = 1056 base damage per shot before skills//consumables at 1000 RPM

Wonder why some folks are crying nerf

==============
Avenger X 48.2 base damage vs shields 500 ROF
Revenant X 79.5 base damage vs shields 650 ROF
Cerberus Harrier X 129.5 base damage vs shields 550 ROF
Typhoon X 124.875 base damage vs shields 650 ROF (after delay)
Reegar X 1056 base damage vs shields at 1000 ROF (after small delay) (equivalent 1 shot weapon assuming all 8 pellets hit)
============

Modifié par peddroelmz, 30 août 2012 - 07:29 .

[Rokayt]

Can we do a cross comparison of weapon amps, mixed weapon amps, and densified ammo?

[peddroelm]

Rokayt wrote...

Can we do a cross comparison of weapon amps, mixed weapon amps, and densified ammo?

Tested densified ammunition I it is like it says 4% additive bonus ..
Also tested the Shotgun amp a few times   true to description - also additive ...

[elitehunter34]

peddroelmz wrote...
-BUG - shadow strike gets power damage bonuses from passives & consumables

How is that a bug?  Shadow Strike is a power.  Why shouldn't it get power damage bonuses from passives and consumables?

[Rokayt]

elitehunter34 wrote...

peddroelmz wrote...
-BUG - shadow strike gets power damage bonuses from passives & consumables

How is that a bug?  Shadow Strike is a power.  Why shouldn't it get power damage bonuses from passives and consumables?

Its a melee attack, according to the game.

[peddroelm]

elitehunter34 wrote...

peddroelmz wrote...
-BUG - shadow strike gets power damage bonuses from passives & consumables

How is that a bug?  Shadow Strike is a power.  Why shouldn't it get power damage bonuses from passives and consumables?

Eric Fagnan specically stated SS its a melee attack not a power and that it should only get melee bonuses ...
here

Modifié par peddroelmz, 29 août 2012 - 06:46 .

[Tybo]

Nice work! I'm impressed. Thank you for the hard work.

Just one quick question. When I began testing the reegar, I thought it had some sort of a dot component. Was that just my imagination?

[peddroelm]

tyhw wrote...

Nice work! I'm impressed. Thank you for the hard work.

Just one quick question. When I began testing the reegar, I thought it had some sort of a dot component. Was that just my imagination?

no DOT

[Rokayt]

I wonder if the smart choke might improve the reegars "accuracy".

I bet the Reegars hitscan is only valid in that 1 M thick, by 10 M long stream it shoots out.

In other words.... Perhaps a series of accuracy bonuses could improve the Reegars average damage.
By preventing its "Pellets" from falling out of its field of valid hitscan.
A 25% boost isn't much.....


However, a 75% boost could be very significant.

Modifié par Rokayt, 29 août 2012 - 08:39 .

[Arppis]

AP ammo, sucha waste of time.

[peddroelm]

Rokayt wrote...

I wonder if the smart choke might improve the reegars "accuracy".

I bet the Reegars hitscan is only valid in that 1 M thick, by 10 M long stream it shoots out.

In other words.... Perhaps a series of accuracy bonuses could improve the Reegars average damage.

I did test with Destroyer with DM on .. Point blank to Geth Prime .. And still may times some of the pellets did not register damage ... I initially assummed it was an accuracy issue (first test subject was a "dodging" cannibal ) .. But after the geth prime test I'm afraid it might be a collision detection problem ...Some pellets just go trough the target without doing damage ...

[Rokayt]

peddroelmz wrote...

Rokayt wrote...

I wonder if the smart choke might improve the reegars "accuracy".

I bet the Reegars hitscan is only valid in that 1 M thick, by 10 M long stream it shoots out.

In other words.... Perhaps a series of accuracy bonuses could improve the Reegars average damage.

I did test with Destroyer with DM on .. Point blank to Geth Prime .. And still may times some of the pellets did not register damage ... I initially assummed it was an accuracy issue (first test subject was a "dodging" cannibal ) .. But after the geth prime test I'm afraid it might be a collision detection problem ...Some pellets just go trough the target without doing damage ...

Perhaps the pellet count is randomized?

I still feel it would be interesting to go the full 75% on accuracy and test what happens.

[peddroelm]

Rokayt wrote...

Perhaps the pellet count is randomized?

I still feel it would be interesting to go the full 75% on accuracy and test what happens.

Did that vs Ravager  - in retrospect that was the most reliable test session - as in consitent/repeatable damage ... Accuracy might help  ...

[Rokayt]

peddroelmz wrote...

Rokayt wrote...

Perhaps the pellet count is randomized?

I still feel it would be interesting to go the full 75% on accuracy and test what happens.

Did that vs Ravager  - in retrospect that was the most reliable test session - as in consitent/repeatable damage ... Accuracy might help  ...

Going balls to the wall in terms of testing rediculousness does best to highlight annomallies in test data I have found.

It also makes good video footage.
 :happy:

So... A HVB smart choked Reegar will be the king of the shotguns when the missing mods come out, potentially.

[yarpenthemad21]

reegar has 0 acc, and because all acc bonuses work on base acc stat = all of them gives just 0.

[yarpenthemad21]

I've done some math about new shieldgate on gold
geth hunter is harderst to one shot target (don't count pyro because of think tank stuff)

10378 damage needed to kill him in one shot.
formula for damage as I supposed is
my jevelin is VI,
QFI
tc bonus 0.80, sr 1.25
passive 0.225
gear 0.1
sr III ramp 0.3
barrel .25
hs passive .2
1174*1.25*(1+.8+.225+.1+.3+0.2+.25)*2.5 = 10547.65625
I can confirm that I can kill in one headshot hunter on gold.

so with ammo powers it's probably possible to do it with widow quite easy.

on platinum damage needed is 13491,5

max damage GI with SR III and SR gear and jevelin X should be able to do it without ammo powers
1.1*1288*1.25*(1+.8+.225+.15+.3+0.2+.25+.175)*2.5 = 13725.25


conclusion is simple. On gold it's easy to one shot enemies with 75% shieldgate, it's possible with even widow. just use some ammo power, probably incendiary will be best, don't know how warp ammo is calculated vs hunter.
on platinum jevelin on higher level is probably needed. only geth can do it without ammo powers on jevelin X (jevelin IX needs targeting VI instead of sr amp, jevelin VIII needs targetint vi gear and consumable).
on other classes ammo power is needed. Hard to tell about widow, depends on ammo probably. OP is specialist in this

[corlist]

Test for cranial trauma system (for heavy pistols)

Summary
- Adds a +40% multiplicative bonus at level 5.
In other words, headshots do 3.5x damage instead of 2.5x
- Does not add to ammo damage.

vs Bronze cannibal

N7 Demolisher
Predator X 73.5
7.5% passives
12.5% HP gear IV
40% HS (Cranial Trauma System)

Observed bodyshot
900 - 811.799987792 = 88.200012208
- As calculated, no effect on bodyshots

Observed headshot
900 - 591.299987792 = 308.700012208

Calculation
73.5 * (1 + 0.075 + 0.125) * 2.5 * 1.4 = 308.7
- CTS mod is a 40% multiplicative bonus

----------

Geth Infiltrator
Predator X
TC 80%
HM 5%
Passives 5%
HP gear IV 12.5%
40% HS (CTS mod)

Warp Ammo I (15%, 25% weakening)

TC ON, HM ON, bodyshot
Observed900 - 740.137451171 = 159.862548829
Calculation(73.5 * 0.15) + (73.5 * (1 + 0.8 + 0.05 + 0.05 + 0.125)) = 159.8625

---

TC ON, HM ON, headshot

Observed900 - 368.0437011719 = 531.9562988281

Calculation(73.5 * 0.15) + (73.5 * (1 + 0.8 + 0.05 + 0.05 + 0.125)) * 2.5 * 1.4 = 531.95625
- No ammo damage added

Modifié par corlist, 30 août 2012 - 01:50 .

[peddroelm]

corlist wrote...

Test for cranial trauma system (for heavy pistols)

Summary
- Adds a +40% multiplicative bonus at level 5.

 

That is a bit surprising compared to all other HS skills, consumables that provide additive bonuses .. It had to be good. It dissalows use of the extended barrel ...

yarpenthemad21 wrote...

On gold it's easy to one shot enemies with 75% shieldgate 

It was hard with 90% shield gate ... But with 75% it might not even be there .. RIP shieldgate ..

Modifié par peddroelmz, 30 août 2012 - 03:51 .

[Cyonan]

Nice testing on the Reegar

The only thing I'm wondering is: If it has 8 "pellets" and my testing was on a Drell with +20% from Drell Assassin(No other bonuses, not even a High Caliber Barrel) which means 79.2 per pellet or 633.6 damage.

In this case, how was I able to kill a Bronze Assault Trooper with 750 hp in 1 "bullet"