658 réponses à ce sujet

[Rokayt]

Cyonan wrote...

Nice testing on the Reegar

The only thing I'm wondering is: If it has 8 "pellets" and my testing was on a Drell with +20% from Drell Assassin(No other bonuses, not even a High Caliber Barrel) which means 79.2 per pellet or 633.6 damage.

In this case, how was I able to kill a Bronze Assault Trooper with 750 hp in 1 "bullet"

One of the pellets may have struck the head, in which case you would have done a total of 769 damage.

You may have charged recently.

Perhaps. You are a goat.

[Cyonan]

Rokayt wrote...

One of the pellets may have struck the head, in which case you would have done a total of 769 damage.

You may have charged recently.

Perhaps. You are a goat.

I suppose it could have hit the head. Kind of hard to tell with this gun. It was a Drell Adept so I didn't have Biotic Charge(I didn't use any abilities on the target, either).

Perhaps I am a space goat.

Modifié par Cyonan, 30 août 2012 - 04:13 .

[Rokayt]

Cyonan wrote...

Rokayt wrote...

One of the pellets may have struck the head, in which case you would have done a total of 769 damage.

You may have charged recently.

Perhaps. You are a goat.

I suppose it could have hit the head. Kind of hard to tell with this gun. It was a Drell Adept so I didn't have Biotic Charge.

Perhaps I am a space goat.

I am a space Walrus.

You don't know how many people are willing to be a racist against such things.

[peddroelm]

Cyonan wrote...

Nice testing on the Reegar

The only thing I'm wondering is: If it has 8 "pellets" and my testing was on a Drell with +20% from Drell Assassin(No other bonuses, not even a High Caliber Barrel) which means 79.2 per pellet or 633.6 damage.

In this case, how was I able to kill a Bronze Assault Trooper with 750 hp in 1 "bullet"

Done quite a few tests with it .. Never did more damage than 8 times * calculated pellet damage ...

Fire the reegar once at the wall ... From point blank ... Then from max range ..Notice the Huge area burn mark (but it doesn't seem to grow in size (memory) like for regular pellet shotguns)  (is it safe to assume the pellets can start from any point in that area and then fly straight ? )...  Death area for the gun is a cylinder rater than a cone ?

When targeting a small (compared to the reegar burn mark area) humanoid target if you want to make sure you don't score a headshot you must aim bellow the belly button ...

[vironblood]

Cyonan wrote...

I suppose it could have hit the head. Kind of hard to tell with this gun. It was a Drell Adept so I didn't have Biotic Charge(I didn't use any abilities on the target, either).

You hit the head. I just tested this on a bronze Assault Trooper with a KV having only a 20% bonus WD. I aimed at his chest. He was left with 166.399 health (750 - (66*(1+0.2)*8)).

peddroelmz wrote...

Fire the reegar once at the wall ...
From point blank ... Then from max range ..Notice the Huge area burn mark (but it doesn't seem to grow in size (memory) like for regular pellet shotguns)  (is it safe to assume the pellets can start from any point in that area and then fly straight ? )...  Death area for the gun is a cylinder rater than a cone ?

Indeed, the Reegar pellets have a cylinder spread and not a cone as other shotguns, which seems normal since the accuracy related stats (including the acccone_min/max) are all 0. Accuracy bonuses are wasted on the Reegar.

Modifié par vironblood, 30 août 2012 - 01:56 .

[tallinn]

If the SS formula given here is correct, this build should be able to OHK a phantom, but is not.

Damage of TC + SS (including DoT) =

(600 * (1 + 1,5 + 0,35 + 0,3 + 0,15  + 0,5 + 2*0,4) * 1,25) * 1,4 = 4830

A Gold Phantom has 4050.

List of buffs:

1,5 SS damage buffs from Shadow Strike, N7 Shadow and Sword Mastery
0,35 Strength Enhancer III (shouldn't that be 0,3? But it would not change the picture)
0,3 Power Amplifier III
0,15 Hydraulic Joints V
0,5 TC melee damage bonus
2*0,4 (bugged) double-dipped 0,4 TC damage bonus
1,25 melee stunner V
1,4 Direct + DoT damage

Phantom do have health regeneration when they cloak (which they always will do once hit by this attack). This may be the reason. Or the formula is wrong.

Modifié par tallinn, 30 août 2012 - 05:26 .

[peddroelm]

tallinn wrote...

If the SS formula given here is correct, this build should be able to OHK a phantom, but is not.
...
Phantom do have health regeneration when they cloak (which they always will do once hit by this attack). This may be the reason. Or the formula is wrong.

600 * (1 + 0.2 + 0.3 + 0.65 + 1.3 + 0.35 + 0.3 + 0.3 + 0.15) * 1.25 = 3412.5 on impact
600 * (1 + 0.2 + 0.3 + 0.65 + 1.3 + 0.35 + 0.3 + 0.3 + 0.15) * 1.25 * 0.4 = 1365 DOT

3412.5 + 1365 = 4777.5

Gold Phantom 2362.5 + 1687.5 = 4050

It should die from one cloaked SS strike with the build & gear presented .. 

Also found this on one of Micah3sixty's N7 Shadow Guides

"Also, if a Phantom has her power blocking bubble shield up, don't SS until she drops it as you'll either end up doing half damage and getting meleed, or no damage at all."

Modifié par peddroelmz, 30 août 2012 - 06:25 .

[Tybo]

Since we're discussing phantoms now...

I tried an Asari Vanguard with +15% weapon damage in passive, and a pistol amp 3. I used the pistol cranial trauma mod. I have a paladin 5.

This should do:
472*(1+.15+.3)*2.5*1.4=2395.4 damage on a headshot.

However, a stasised phantom would only take ~7 bars of barrier damage.

Here are a few possibilities for why this happens:
a) phantoms have more than 2362.5 barrier.
barrier has some sort of innate damage reduction, like armor
c) stasis reduces damage taken
d) phantom can retain damage resistance while in the bubble
d) The above damage calculation is incorrect

Anyone have any other ideas? I can probably set something up to check c). I doubt it is d), as I would expect that one of the times I caught the phantom in stasis, i.e. when I stasised it when it was behind cover, it would not have its DR up. Also, I noticed no variability in the damage I did.

[Elecbender]

Here's two:

The in-game text mentions Submission Net granting a bonus damage to armor. However Bioware did not post this power as one of the moves that give protection damage bonus.

In-game tests show that the Paladin's melee shield is doing far more than the coalesced.ini file states, almost twice as much damage. For example: you can OHK a Husk on Gold by speccing into melee and having a melee mod.

However math contradicts this: 400 * (1 + 0.65) * 1.25 = 825. Husks have at least 900 health on Gold so I shouldn't have OHK it.

[tinler]

Peddroelmz, after the Ballistic Blades buff a few weeks back, I tried out the Bleeding evolution to see if it's gotten any better. Aside from lacking the 2nd stun, it still didn't seem to do much damage at all.

Can you break down how much damage is delivered on the initial hit and how much is through DoT? Also, within what range, if any, will a Bleeding BB outdamage an Exploding BB?

[yarpenthemad21]

tyhw wrote...

Since we're discussing phantoms now...

I tried an Asari Vanguard with +15% weapon damage in passive, and a pistol amp 3. I used the pistol cranial trauma mod. I have a paladin 5.

This should do:
472*(1+.15+.3)*2.5*1.4=2395.4 damage on a headshot.

However, a stasised phantom would only take ~7 bars of barrier damage.

Here are a few possibilities for why this happens:
a) phantoms have more than 2362.5 barrier.
barrier has some sort of innate damage reduction, like armor
c) stasis reduces damage taken
d) phantom can retain damage resistance while in the bubble
d) The above damage calculation is incorrect

Anyone have any other ideas? I can probably set something up to check c). I doubt it is d), as I would expect that one of the times I caught the phantom in stasis, i.e. when I stasised it when it was behind cover, it would not have its DR up. Also, I noticed no variability in the damage I did.

i had the same results with saber
I could 2 shot any other units (centurion/nemezis) one shot guardian and trooper and still 7 bars of phantom barriers.
there is something with phantom barriers.

you can test this setup on geth. You should kill in 2 shots hunter on gold (hunter has almost the same amount of shields as phantom barriers)

[Merkit91]

Elecbender wrote...

In-game tests show that the Paladin's melee shield is doing far more than the coalesced.ini file states, almost twice as much damage. For example: you can OHK a Husk on Gold by speccing into melee and having a melee mod.

However math contradicts this: 400 * (1 + 0.65) * 1.25 = 825. Husks have at least 900 health on Gold so I shouldn't have OHK it.

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/343/index/13658206/1#13663922 - this thread suggests that light and heavy melee attack have force values, and that 10% of force done is automatically converted into damage.
Force value for Paladin's HM is listed in this thread as 600. 10% from 600 = 60. (400 + 60)*(1+0.65)* 1.25 = 948.65 => more the enough to OHK husk on Gold.

Of course, it would be good if someone would test all this.

[peddroelm]

[quote]Merkit91 wrote...
 that light and heavy melee attack have force values, and that 10% of force done is automatically converted into damage.

.../quote]

No - I have tested hundreds of times melee damage - no mystery extra damage from the force ... I will test Paladin mechanics (including his melee) someday ...

[Elecbender]

Merkit91 wrote...

Elecbender wrote...

In-game tests show that the Paladin's melee shield is doing far more than the coalesced.ini file states, almost twice as much damage. For example: you can OHK a Husk on Gold by speccing into melee and having a melee mod.

However math contradicts this: 400 * (1 + 0.65) * 1.25 = 825. Husks have at least 900 health on Gold so I shouldn't have OHK it.

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/343/index/13658206/1#13663922 - this thread suggests that light and heavy melee attack have force values, and that 10% of force done is automatically converted into damage.
Force value for Paladin's HM is listed in this thread as 600. 10% from 600 = 60. (400 + 60)*(1+0.65)* 1.25 = 948.65 => more the enough to OHK husk on Gold.

Of course, it would be good if someone would test all this.

How about doing 9 bars to an Assault Trooper on Gold?  

I can only extrapolate from here...

[corlist]

tyhw wrote...

Since we're discussing phantoms now...

I tried an Asari Vanguard with +15% weapon damage in passive, and a pistol amp 3. I used the pistol cranial trauma mod. I have a paladin 5.

This should do:
472*(1+.15+.3)*2.5*1.4=2395.4 damage on a headshot.

However, a stasised phantom would only take ~7 bars of barrier damage.

Here are a few possibilities for why this happens:
a) phantoms have more than 2362.5 barrier.
barrier has some sort of innate damage reduction, like armor
c) stasis reduces damage taken
d) phantom can retain damage resistance while in the bubble
d) The above damage calculation is incorrect

Anyone have any other ideas? I can probably set something up to check c). I doubt it is d), as I would expect that one of the times I caught the phantom in stasis, i.e. when I stasised it when it was behind cover, it would not have its DR up. Also, I noticed no variability in the damage I did.

*edit* line breaks always eaten up when copied from notepad
*edit* pistol rail tested with CTS mod and working
*edit* mystery solved

Some of the statements are proven false
a) phantoms have more than 2362.5 barrier.
Gold phantoms actually have exactly 3075 barriers.
barrier has some sort of innate damage reduction, like armor
c) stasis reduces damage taken
d) phantom can retain damage resistance while in the bubble
- Possibly if phantom was stasised mid-flip
e) The above damage calculation is incorrect 
f) HP rail amp does not work with the CTS mod properly

==========

Stasis vs Phantom test
Predator X
73.5
40% HS CTS
12.5% HP gear

Vs bronze cannibal

Stasis
900 - 875 = 25
- Stasis does 25 damage on impact
(This is affected by power bonuses, not like it's much of a difference)

Stasis bodyshot
900 - 792.3125 = 107.6875

Calculation
25 + 73.5 * (1 + 0.125) = 107.6875

- No damage loss on stasis bodyshot

Stasis headshot
900 - 585.59375 = 314.40625

Calculation
25 + 73.5 * (1 + 0.125) * 2.5 * 1.4 = 314.40625

- No damage loss on stasis headshot

----------

Vs bronze phantom

Bodyshot
1050 - 967 = 83

Calculation
73.5 * (1 + 0.125) = 82.6875

- As expected, damage to shields/barriers rounded up

Headshot
1050 - 760 = 290

Calculation
73.5 * (1 + 0.125) * 2.5 * 1.4 = 289.40625

- Same

Stasis + bodyshot
1050 - 942 = 108

Calculation
25 + 73.5 * (1 + 0.125) = 107.6875

- No reduced damage to stasised phantom with a bodyshot

Stasis + headshot
1050 - 735 = 315

25 + 73.5 * (1 + 0.125) * 2.5 * 1.4 = 314.40625

- Same with headshots

----------

Predator X
73.5
40% HS CTS
12.5% HP gear IV
10% HP Rail I

bodyshot
750 - 659.9625244141 = 90.0374755859

calculation
73.5 * (1 + 0.125 + 0.1) = 90.0375

- Expected

headshot
750 - 434.8687438965 = 315.1312561035

calculation
73.5 * (1 + 0.125 + 0.1) * 2.5 * 1.4 = 315.13125

- HP rails working with CTS mod

==========

Test on gold phantom

3075 barriers 1687.5 health
875 palm cannon damage

Test 1 vs gold phantom
AA (no points invested)
Carnifex X
345.1
12.5% HP gear IV
40% HS (CTS mod)

Expected stasis HS vs barrier
25 + 345.1 * (1 + 0.125) * 2.5 * 1.4 = 1383.83125
rounded to 1384

Barriers left on phantom after stasis headshot
1691

1691 + 1384 = 3075

----------

Test 2 gold phantom vs shields
4000 - 3125 = 875 

Modifié par corlist, 31 août 2012 - 02:26 .

[Tybo]

Great job corlist! That solves a problem that has been vexing me for at least 3 months. I was fairly certain that there was something wrong with phantom barriers, but I couldn't prove it.

Thanks!

[peddroelm]

tyhw wrote...

Great job corlist! That solves a problem that has been vexing me for at least 3 months. I was fairly certain that there was something wrong with phantom barriers, but I couldn't prove it.

Thanks!

Should also explain tallinn's  issues with his Shadow ...

Modifié par peddroelmz, 31 août 2012 - 07:59 .

[corlist]

Another quick test (spawn DR)

Enemies that recently spawn have 50% DR for about 5 seconds.

Falcon X
349
no damage bonus

vs bronze cannibal
900 - 725.5 = 174.5

349 / 174.5 = 2

Modifié par corlist, 31 août 2012 - 09:54 .

[Shampoohorn]

Here are some links that might be useful to include in your top post.

Damage resistance

Some info on shield recharge gear

GP's Mechanics Thread probably has a few more links worthy of inclusion.

edit: wrong like for GP's thread.

Modifié par Shampoohorn, 31 août 2012 - 09:01 .

[peddroelm]

Shampoohorn wrote...

Here are some links that might be useful to include in your top post.

Damage resistance

Some info on shield recharge gear

GP's Mechanics Thread probably has a few more links worthy of inclusion.

Actually we were considering putting that damage resistance formula to the test ..

[vironblood]

corlist wrote...

Enemies that recently spawn have 50% DR for about 5 seconds.

DR is also applied to targets during the assassination objective and varies according to unit budget cost:

UnitCost/TTK/DR
90/ 60s/  0%
70/ 50s/ 15%
40/ 40s/ 30%
20/ 30s/ 50%

Cost = c.bin budget cost; TTK =Time to Kill; DR = Damage reduction

If anyone is interested in the Paladin's melee damage.

Edit: Formatting

Modifié par vironblood, 15 septembre 2012 - 10:36 .

[Tybo]

I'd like to propose that the next test be on overload mechanics. Apparently, it is not working as expected. See here:

http://social.biowar...ndex/12661186/1

[corlist]

tyhw wrote...

I'd like to propose that the next test be on overload mechanics. Apparently, it is not working as expected. See here:

http://social.biowar...ndex/12661186/1

You'll be pleased to know that peddro is already on it since yesterday. Results will be released shortly...

[neteng101]

Could you test this...

Cloak cycle, sticky grenade (since it has delayed explosion), sabotage in sequence. A Gold Ravager or Brute might be a good test subject (armor only) since that's not enough to actually kill them outright.

Does the sticky grenade get both the cloak damage bonus and Sabotage Tech Vulnerability bonus when it goes off?

[yarpenthemad21]

neteng101 wrote...

Could you test this...

Cloak cycle, sticky grenade (since it has delayed explosion), sabotage in sequence. A Gold Ravager or Brute might be a good test subject (armor only) since that's not enough to actually kill them outright.

Does the sticky grenade get both the cloak damage bonus and Sabotage Tech Vulnerability bonus when it goes off?

bonus damage from cloak yes
from sabotage tech vulnerability no