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[corlist]

Snap freeze and electric slash tech combo tests
*Retested on 28/10/2012* (Post patch 1.04 and Retaliation DLC)
*Re-retested on 25/05/2013*

Latest data

Summary
Snap freeze (Paladin)
Tech combo does not do anything to either TBs, FEs or CEs.
Snap Freeze cryo explosions will do 2x damage upon choosing the reach evolution. (bug)
Snap freeze (AIU)
Tech combo works for TBs, CEs and FEs.

Electric Slash
Tech combo does not do anything to either TBs, FEs or CEs.
There is no difference between the slashing and the projectile portion in terms of combo damage and functionality with detonate.

Electric Slash mechanics
Does 30% of its listed damage during the slash portion.
Does 100% of its listed damage on the projectile portion.
- Both can hit for 130% total damage.
ES can knock over enemies and they will thereafter receive force (physics) damage.
Shield multiplier works.

--------------------------------------------------

All tests done on bronze

Snap freeze 6, Overload 5 (TB)
+100% tech combo

900 - 665 = 235
100 * 2.35 * 1.5 * 0.667 = 235.1175
- 33.3% damage loss wtf?

--------------------

Overload 5 + Snap freeze 6 (CE)
+100% tech combo

900 - 547.5 = 352.5
2.35 * 1.5 * 2 = 352.5
- 100% bonus works for CE

--------------------

Incinerate 4 + Snap freeze 6 (FE)
+100% tech combo

900 - 405 = 495
150 * 2.2 * 1.5 = 495
- Snap freeze tech combo has no effect on FEs

--------------------

Submission Net 5 + Snap freeze 6 (TB)

900 - 547.5 = 352.5
100 * 2.35 * 1.5 = 352.5
- Snap freeze 6 without tech combo does normal TB damage.

--------------------

Energy Drain 1 + Electric Slash 5 (TB)
+100% tech combo
ES damage: 825
ED damage: 220

825 - 117.5 = 707.5
(825 * 0.3) + 220 = 467.5
707.5 - 467.5 = 240

100 * 1.6 * 1.5 = 240
- ES tech combo does not influence TB damage.

--------------------

Incinerate 1 + Electric Slash 5 (FE)
+100% tech combo
ES damage: 825

825 - 217.5 = 607.5
607.5 - (825 * 0.3) = 360
150 * 1.6 * 1.5 = 360
- ES tech combo does not influence FE damage.

--------------------

Cryo Blast 6 + Electric Slash 5 (CE)
+100% tech combo

Bystander Cannibal
900 - 476.25 = 423.75

CE damage
50 * 2.35 * 1.5 = 176.25

ES slash damage
825 * 0.3 = 247.5

247.5 + 176.25 = 423.75
- No effect for CEs on ES tech combo.

--------------------

Retests

Paladin
Snap Freeze (6): Reach/Cryo Explosion/Vulnerability
Incinerate (3)
Energy Drain (5): Radius/Drain
45% PD

N7 Shadow
Electric Slash (1)
Electric Slash (5): Radius/Detonate

-----

All tests done on bronze cannibals

ED 5 + ES 1
Damage 181.500000 //ED: 220 * (1 + 0.45 + 0.2) * 0.5 = 181.5
Damage 165.000000 //ES slash: 550 * 0.3 = 165
Damage 240.000000 //bronze TB(6): 100 * 1.6 * 1.5 = 240

Damage 181.500000 //ED: 220 * (1 + 0.45 + 0.2) * 0.5 = 181.5
Damage 550.000000 //ES projectile: 550
Damage 240.000000 //bronze TB(6): 100 * 1.6 * 1.5 = 240

---

Incinerate 3 + ES 1
Damage 408.375061 //Inc impact: 330 * (1 + 0.45 + 0.2) * 0.75 = 408.375
Damage 22.687500 //Inc DoT: 330 * (1 + 0.45 + 0.2) * 0.25 * 1/6 = 22.6875
Damage 165.000000 //ES slash: 550 * 0.3 = 165
Damage 195.000000 //bronze FE(4): 100 * 1.3 * 1.5 = 195

Damage 408.375061 //Inc impact: 330 * (1 + 0.45 + 0.2) * 0.75 = 408.375
Damage 22.687500 //Inc DoT: 330 * (1 + 0.45 + 0.2) * 0.25 * 1/6 = 22.6875
Damage 550.000000 //ES projectile: 550
Damage 195.000000 //bronze FE(4): 100 * 1.3 * 1.5 = 195

---

SF 6 + ES 1
Damage 512.500000 //SF: 250 * (1 + 0.2 + 0.4 + 0.45) = 512.5
Damage 165.000000 //ES slash: 550 * 0.3 = 165
Damage 577.499939 //bronze CE(7): 100 * 1.75 * 1.5 * 2 * 1.1 = 577.5

Damage 512.500000 //SF: 250 * (1 + 0.2 + 0.4 + 0.45) = 512.5
Damage 550.000000 //ES projectile: 550
Damage 577.499939 //bronze CE(7): 100 * 1.75 * 1.5 * 2 * 1.1 = 577.5

---

ED 5 + ES 5
Damage 181.500000 //ED: 220 * (1 + 0.45 + 0.2) * 0.5 = 181.5
Damage 198.000000 //ES slash: 550 * 1.2 * 0.3 = 198
Damage 330.000000 //bronze TB(10): 100 * 2.2 * 1.5 = 330

Damage 181.500000 //ED: 220 * (1 + 0.45 + 0.2) * 0.5 = 181.5
Damage 660.000000 //ES projectile: 550 * 1.2 = 660
Damage 330.000000 //bronze TB(10): 100 * 1.6 * 1.5 = 330

---

Incinerate 3 + ES 5
Damage 408.375061 //Inc impact: 330 * (1 + 0.45 + 0.2) * 0.75 = 408.375
Damage 22.687500 //Inc DoT: 330 * (1 + 0.45 + 0.2) * 0.25 * 1/6 = 22.6875
Damage 198.000000 //ES slash: 550 * 1.2 * 0.3 = 198
Damage 285.000000 //bronze FE(8): 100 * 1.9 * 1.5 = 285

Damage 408.375061 //Inc impact: 330 * (1 + 0.45 + 0.2) * 0.75 = 408.375
Damage 22.687500 //Inc DoT: 330 * (1 + 0.45 + 0.2) * 0.25 * 1/6 = 22.6875
Damage 22.687500
Damage 22.687500
Damage 660.000000 //ES projectile: 550 * 1.2 = 660
Damage 285.000000 //bronze FE(8): 100 * 1.9 * 1.5 = 285

---

SF 6 + ES 5
Damage 512.500000 //SF: 250 * (1 + 0.2 + 0.4 + 0.45) = 512.5
Damage 217.799988 //ES slash + SF debuff: 550 * 1.2 * 0.3 * 1.1 = 217.8
Damage 9.736938 //Cryo Explosion force damage
Damage 775.499939 //bronze CE(11): 100 * 2.35 * 1.5 * 2 * 1.1 = 775.5

Damage 512.500000 //SF 250 * (1 + 0.2 + 0.4 + 0.45) = 512.5
Damage 725.999939 //ES projectile + SF debuff: 550 * 1.2 * 1.1 = 726
Damage 775.499939 //bronze CE(11): 100 * 2.35 * 1.5 * 2 * 1.1 = 775.5

Modifié par corlist, 19 décembre 2013 - 07:08 .

[blaze55555]

Have you tried using Electric Slash to source a TB and see if the damage bonus applies then?

Also: Still waiting on results/info on Movement Speed Slowing powers, and if you can stack multiple to make enemies unable to move, and furthermore, if banshees can still jump to you when 'frozen' in place by slowing moves.

All the info is awesome, guys; keep it up!

[corlist]

I am quite sure that electric slash cannot source/prime a TB. It is only a detonator.

I've done a little bit of stacking movement speed slowing and they work. Haven't got enough people to stack beyond 100% however. Banshees also don't seem to have a longer teleport delay despite having a 75% movement speed penalty on them.

[artificial-ignorance]

If you want, you can add my data for SP and PSP drop rates with my data as well as randomfoos grouped data for PSP UR drop rates. See sig for link, and see sig's OP for link to randomfoos online spreadsheet.

[MikeSlackenerny]

Actually I have an idea that some testing may be helpful with answering, but I'm not sure if the information is available elsewhere. If someone knows where I can find this information please let me know. It's about the accuracy rating on Cyonan's spreadsheet.

There're several seemingly related things on the spreadsheet: accuracy and aim error. Does anyone actually know what they mean? Like specifically how does it relate to the size of the spread? Shotguns have low accuracy, yet most of them have zero aim error, so what does aim error do? I wonder if these can be answered with some in-game testing.

[capn233]

Not sure if this was what you were looking for, but for some reason in the consumable guide it says regarding Warp Ammo: "Extra damage may not be applied to shields or barrier?"

I am fairly certain it did apply to barriers and made this little test vid with my GI a while back... Warp Ammo vs Barriers

I don't know how you would prove that it applies the correct percent, maybe one of you guys that actually can read enemy HP could test it.

Oh and didn't test it vs shields.  Only reason I did this was people were unsure if it worked, and I was fairly confident it did given my GI vs Phantoms.

[peddroelm]

artificial-ignorance wrote...

If you want, you can add my data for SP and PSP drop rates with my data as well as randomfoos grouped data for PSP UR drop rates. See sig for link, and see sig's OP for link to randomfoos online spreadsheet.

That is a nice effort but  this thread is mostly about in-game weapon/power/melee/ammo numerical damage tests (and reverse engineering the damage forumlas behind it) ...  

capn233 wrote...

Not sure if this was what you were looking for, but for some reason in the consumable guide it says regarding Warp Ammo: "Extra damage may not be applied to shields or barrier?"

I am fairly certain it did apply to barriers and made this little test vid with my GI a while back... Warp Ammo vs Barriers


I don't know how you would prove that it applies the correct percent, maybe one of you guys that actually can read enemy HP could test it.


Oh and didn't test it vs shields.  Only reason I did this was people were unsure if it worked, and I was fairly confident it did given my GI vs Phantoms.

Straight from the weapon damage formula OP

ResistanceBonusMultiplier Table for ammo powers 
Vs Shield Barrier Armor Health
AP 0 0 1 1
Warp 0 1 1 1
Disruptor 1 1 0 1
Incendiary 0 0 1 1

Modifié par peddroelmz, 21 septembre 2012 - 06:21 .

[SavagelyEpic]

peddroelmz wrote...

Reegar

- can get headshots (included for completness - most relevant when fighting geth pyros)
- fires 8 "pellets" per shot
- awfully innacurate or has collison problems - some of them can [miss/go trough] even at point blank range - this makes Reegar DPS calculations - maximal/ideal DPS rarely obtainable in game ...
- does not ignore armor (benefits from armor weakening/piercing greatly)
- ammo damage does not get the *0.5 nerf vs armor ... Another reason AP ammo can add a ton of damage to Reegar vs armor ...

===============
===============
Example

Reegar X vs Gold Armor (50 DR) - no bonuses in play
(66 - 50) * 0.5 * 8 = 64

Add AP ammo IV
(66 * 0.5 + (66 - 50 * (1 - 0.9)) * 0.5) * 8 = 508 (remember 1k rof)

Just by adding AP ammo IV it makes it one of the top (BEST ?) weapons in the game vs armor ...

===================
===================

Example II

equivalenting Reegar to an automatic weapon single bullet vs shields

66 * 8 * 2 = 1056 base damage per shot before skills//consumables at 1000 RPM

Wonder why some folks are crying nerf

==============
Avenger X 48.2 base damage vs shields 500 ROF
Revenant X 79.5 base damage vs shields 650 ROF
Cerberus Harrier X 129.5 base damage vs shields 550 ROF
Typhoon X 124.875 base damage vs shields 650 ROF (after delay)
Reegar X 1056 base damage vs shields at 1000 ROF (after small delay) (equivalent 1 shot weapon assuming all 8 pellets hit)
============

Given your observations with Incendiary's DoT stacking effect esp w/ high ROF weapons, which of the two ammos (incendiary vs. armour-piercing) is superior on a Reegar?

[peddroelm]

SavagelyEpic wrote...

Given your observations with Incendiary's DoT stacking effect esp w/ high ROF weapons, which of the two ammos (incendiary vs. armour-piercing) is superior on a Reegar?

Until ( and if ever) they get around to fixing it - incendiary ammo remains superior on the reegar vs armored bosses ...Without incendiary ammo erroneus stacking bug - AP ammo would be the ( much) better choice ...

[SavagelyEpic]

Ah. Thanks for the info.

[blaze55555]

Pre-S. One 'last' thing: I would like to know if a few things buggedly affect Power Combo damages.
Tactical Cloak
Warp R5 Expose (Evo 4?)
Tactical Scan
Proximity Mine
Tech Armor R5 Power Damage increase (Shouldn't)
Pretty much most debuff powers.

.458 wrote...

Slakky wrote...
There's a cover damage bonus? You mean cloak maybe?

The damage penalty is idiomatic, but I like it more than the ridiculous late game no-scope spamming from ME1 or bullets flying off 90 degrees to the barrel like most PC shooters.

Does anyone else find it weird that Serious Sam somehow managed to justify this mechanic in lore and the ME3 team didn't even bother trying?

It is stated that firing from cover increases damage. He is correct. The "hints" they give to use cover for this purpose seem to indicate that people who fire more precisely hit more critical spots. Is the amount significant? Who knows.

This seems to be the reasoning behind scopes giving higher damage, such as add-ons to increase perception. Personally, I prefer the coffee add-on, it does not add to weapon weight, and thus does not slow the weapon down. It does decrease combat duration though, for latrine trips.

Could I get some testing on this? Also: It has been said, and I believe I've seen enough evidence to prove it (A 2-screenshot edited together, one above the other in a single jpeg) that if you sticky a Sticky Nade directly ONTO an enemy with an ammo power, it can activate at least some effects of some powers. The proof I saw was a jpeg of 2 screenshots, one on top, one on bottom, in the same jpeg. Top showed a guy on PC with 3 sticky nades, and a crusader with cryo ammo on and a cannibal enemy directly in front of him with full health, ready to shoot. Second jpeg showed the same image, but you can now see that the guy had gotten closer, is now cloaked, and has 1 less nade, the gun clip is still at 4 (crusader hasn't been shot or reloaded it would seem) and the enemy is still at full health, but is now frozen. It was a QFI; which has no freezing powers that I know of, and unless I can't see the Scorpion Sticky Bullet and the backup weapon and he switched and shot and switched back before the second jpeg, I think the image is proof enough that, at least with Cryo ammo, if you sticky an enemy directly with a sticky nade, the ammo effect attaches and takes effect.

[peddroelm]

blaze55555 wrote...

Pre-S. One 'last' thing: I would like to know if a few things buggedly affect Power Combo damages.
Tactical Cloak
Warp R5 Expose (Evo 4?)
Tactical Scan
Proximity Mine
Tech Armor R5 Power Damage increase (Shouldn't)
Pretty much most debuff powers.

.458 wrote...

Slakky wrote...
There's a cover damage bonus? You mean cloak maybe?

The damage penalty is idiomatic, but I like it more than the ridiculous late game no-scope spamming from ME1 or bullets flying off 90 degrees to the barrel like most PC shooters.

Does anyone else find it weird that Serious Sam somehow managed to justify this mechanic in lore and the ME3 team didn't even bother trying?

It is stated that firing from cover increases damage. He is correct. The "hints" they give to use cover for this purpose seem to indicate that people who fire more precisely hit more critical spots. Is the amount significant? Who knows.

This seems to be the reasoning behind scopes giving higher damage, such as add-ons to increase perception. Personally, I prefer the coffee add-on, it does not add to weapon weight, and thus does not slow the weapon down. It does decrease combat duration though, for latrine trips.

Could I get some testing on this? Also: It has been said, and I believe I've seen enough evidence to prove it (A 2-screenshot edited together, one above the other in a single jpeg) that if you sticky a Sticky Nade directly ONTO an enemy with an ammo power, it can activate at least some effects of some powers. The proof I saw was a jpeg of 2 screenshots, one on top, one on bottom, in the same jpeg. Top showed a guy on PC with 3 sticky nades, and a crusader with cryo ammo on and a cannibal enemy directly in front of him with full health, ready to shoot. Second jpeg showed the same image, but you can now see that the guy had gotten closer, is now cloaked, and has 1 less nade, the gun clip is still at 4 (crusader hasn't been shot or reloaded it would seem) and the enemy is still at full health, but is now frozen. It was a QFI; which has no freezing powers that I know of, and unless I can't see the Scorpion Sticky Bullet and the backup weapon and he switched and shot and switched back before the second jpeg, I think the image is proof enough that, at least with Cryo ammo, if you sticky an enemy directly with a sticky nade, the ammo effect attaches and takes effect.

 

firing from cover gives no damage bonus (but most weapons are more accurate when fired from cover - its an indirect damage increase) ...

Will test the sticky & ammo effects at some point ...

[An D]

peddroelmz wrote...

AP ammo wall penetration & armor piercing BUG when equiping two weapons (bonus damage will work for both weapons - latest tests done by corlist)

Same for XBox, though not sure about damage bonus.

Modifié par An D, 23 septembre 2012 - 03:16 .

[blaze55555]

Does the GPS retain full ammo damage at snap-fire damage? I.E. if you don't charge the weapon but insta-fire it, does the ammo take the base damage from the weapon's coalesced.ini stat and multiply by that? Or does it multiply that by 0.45 like the rest of the weapon damage if you don't charge?

Also: Could you do a quick test for all chargeable weapons. Shouldn't be a difficult test. I want to know which are all-or-nothing charge multipliers, and which are linear multiplier bonuses. The test should be simple:

Fire once, insta-fire, trying not to charge at all; observing a damage even close to the minimum damage possible should make it clear that you essentially fired and instant-shot
Find and unharmed version of the enemy you just shot; Fully charge your weapon (make sure all bonuses stay the same; i.e. if you're an infiltrator and cloaked, then shot, then repeat the process; for charged shots, you'll have to charge the shot before going into cloak)
Last, find one last unharmed version of the same enemy you just shot and start to charge your weapon (repeat the circumstances from before, so if you charged > cloaked > shot, then do so) but try to make sure you fire before the shot gets fully charged.

As long as you don't do anything wonky (forget to repeat debuff bonuses or TC/AR damage buff bonuses) and you do it all in the same match versus the same enemy type, if you can clearly get a damage per shot negligibly close to the minimum damage per shot, and a damage per shot equal to the maximum damage per shot you theoretically should get based on calculations, then the last shot, under the same circumstances, gets a damage somewhere in between, it doesn't confirm that the charge is linear, but it does show that it is proportional at least; meaning every second you can plan ahead and charge a shot, is more damage and time saved in the future!

P.S. Can you confirm if charging the Kishock fully, then throwing a Sticky grenade improves the Ammo Power Damage by 1.75x 0.67x of the base damage (probably 980ish, for you, as you likely have it at rank X)

[peddroelm]

blaze55555 wrote...

Does the GPS retain full ammo damage at snap-fire damage? I.E. if you don't charge the weapon but insta-fire it, does the ammo take the base damage from the weapon's coalesced.ini stat and multiply by that? Or does it multiply that by 0.45 like the rest of the weapon damage if you don't charge?
...

GPS & Kishock charge multiplier (continous type) does not apply to base weapon damage .. As a result those weapons will always do the same amount of ammo damage per shot regardless of charge level ... (you can increase Kishock ammo damage by firing it from cloak with the rank 6 TC perc that increases sniper rifles base damage for cloaked shots)


Graal (2), PPR (4) , Typhoon (1.5) , GPSMG (2.5) , Arc Pistol (2) have charged/un charged states .. For them the charge multiplier applies to base damage - as such it will apply to ammo damage as well ...

Modifié par peddroelmz, 27 septembre 2012 - 03:41 .

[capn233]

peddroelmz wrote...

Straight from the weapon damage formula OP

ResistanceBonusMultiplier Table for ammo powers 
Vs Shield Barrier Armor Health
AP 0 0 1 1
Warp 0 1 1 1
Disruptor 1 1 0 1
Incendiary 0 0 1 1

Uh huh.

I don't think there was a question of what defense the ammo consumables are supposed to work on.  The question was if the damage was actually applied.  Only reason I ever did the above was a thread where people were
acting like Warp Ammo didn't actually do a bonus to barriers.  Since
someone already had this covered it is no big deal.  Would be nice if the ammo consumable sheet were updated.

I see in the OP corlist had a test of the Level IV's.  That seems to include all the consumables ammos.  I did not see ammo consumables tested in your weapon damage thread, but whatever.

The consumable spreadsheet (which is a bit old at this point) still has the following questions for some reason:

Re AP Ammo "Only does bonus to armor/health?"
Re Disruptor Ammo "Only does extra damage to synthetics and shields/barriers?"
Re Warp Ammo "Extra damage may not be applied to shields or barrier?"

[peddroelm]

capn233 wrote...
...
Re AP Ammo "Only does bonus to armor/health?"
Re Disruptor Ammo "Only does extra damage to synthetics and shields/barriers?"
Re Warp Ammo "Extra damage may not be applied to shields or barrier?"

Pointless questions answered long ago.. Unfortuanately I cannot update that sheet ...

Modifié par peddroelmz, 26 septembre 2012 - 03:58 .

[blaze55555]

EDIT: Where does the Arc Pistol fall in the Continuous/Boolean charged categories? And how exactly does it work? Cyonan had it claiming that, when charged, it fired 3 bullets instead of 2, and all 3 did double damage. All info about this gun is extremely helpful!

And I have a crazy request; It's more a request over time, thingy... basically, mind doing a test a day or every other day on each weapon, one by one, to see if each has any weird mechanics, if it behaves in any weird ways, if it has any strange hidden mechanics/stats (like the Boolean charge multilier of the GPSMG? Truely insightful info) and esp. double check 2 things: a. y/n if a weapon can get a headshot or not, and b. if the headshot damage multiplier is 3 for the Graal & Kishock and 2.5 for everything else (that can get a headshot).

peddroelmz wrote...

blaze55555 wrote...

Does the GPS retain full ammo damage at snap-fire damage? I.E. if you don't charge the weapon but insta-fire it, does the ammo take the base damage from the weapon's coalesced.ini stat and multiply by that? Or does it multiply that by 0.45 like the rest of the weapon damage if you don't charge?
...

GPS & Kishock charge multiplier (continous type) does not apply to base weapon damage .. As a result those weapons will always do the same amount of ammo damage per shot regardless of charge level ... (you can increase Kishock ammo damage by firing it from cloak with the rank 6 TC perc that increases sniper rifles base damage for cloaked shots)


Graal (2), PPR (4) , Typhoon (1.5) , GPSMG (2.5) have charged/un charged states .. For them the charge multiplier applies to base damage - as such it will apply to ammo damage as well ...

By this info, would the Graal, of all weapons, be the strongest weapon for Sticky Grenade Ammo application? Charged, the Graal is 2 * 110 * 6 = 1330, higher than the Javelin AND doesn't need to scope for full damage! I'm still trying to figure out which gun is teh best for this; Does the Graal result in poor ammo-activation? You don't have to answer that, but it's definitely something I'm wondering now.

P.S. Still awesome!

Modifié par blaze55555, 27 septembre 2012 - 12:46 .

[peddroelm]

blaze55555 wrote...

EDIT: Where does the Arc Pistol fall in the Continuous/Boolean charged categories? And how exactly does it work? Cyonan had it claiming that, when charged, it fired 3 bullets instead of 2, and all 3 did double damage. All info about this gun is extremely helpful!

And I have a crazy request; It's more a request over time, thingy... basically, mind doing a test a day or every other day on each weapon, one by one, to see if each has any weird mechanics, if it behaves in any weird ways, if it has any strange hidden mechanics/stats (like the Boolean charge multilier of the GPSMG? Truely insightful info) and esp. double check 2 things: a. y/n if a weapon can get a headshot or not, and b. if the headshot damage multiplier is 3 for the Graal & Kishock and 2.5 for everything else (that can get a headshot).

peddroelmz wrote...

blaze55555 wrote...

Does the GPS retain full ammo damage at snap-fire damage? I.E. if you don't charge the weapon but insta-fire it, does the ammo take the base damage from the weapon's coalesced.ini stat and multiply by that? Or does it multiply that by 0.45 like the rest of the weapon damage if you don't charge?
...

GPS & Kishock charge multiplier (continous type) does not apply to base weapon damage .. As a result those weapons will always do the same amount of ammo damage per shot regardless of charge level ... (you can increase Kishock ammo damage by firing it from cloak with the rank 6 TC perc that increases sniper rifles base damage for cloaked shots)


Graal (2), PPR (4) , Typhoon (1.5) , GPSMG (2.5) have charged/un charged states .. For them the charge multiplier applies to base damage - as such it will apply to ammo damage as well ...

By this info, would the Graal, of all weapons, be the strongest weapon for Sticky Grenade Ammo application? Charged, the Graal is 2 * 110 * 6 = 1330, higher than the Javelin AND doesn't need to scope for full damage! I'm still trying to figure out which gun is teh best for this; Does the Graal result in poor ammo-activation? You don't have to answer that, but it's definitely something I'm wondering now.

P.S. Still awesome!

Forgot about the arc pistol .. Has * 2 charge multiplier and fires 3 shots when charged ... Shotguns are not good for sticky grenade ammo damage .. Base damage for one pellet// spike is used for ammo damage calculation ...

Pretty sure I've tested each and every weapon (except collector assault rifle and crusader which I lack) at this point and most of the abilities even  if I didn't make a post about every one (working as expected)...  

[blaze55555]

peddroelmz wrote...

Forgot about the arc pistol .. Has * 2 charge multiplier and fires 3 shots when charged ... Shotguns are not good for sticky grenade ammo damage .. Base damage for one pellet// spike is used for ammo damage calculation ...

Pretty sure I've tested each and every weapon (except collector assault rifle and crusader which I lack) at this point and most of the abilities even  if I didn't make a post about every one (working as expected)...

FML I'm a retard... temporarily forgot about the fact that the Graal shoots 6 projectiles meaning that the damage is based off of the one
That being said, my main qualms is with... I guess just the Falcon. Looking at the weekly updates, and Cyonan's sheet, it has a damage of 300ish, I think it's either 307ish or 370ish (something about 3 & 7) ~ nvm, just looked, our stat is 349. But if you look at the Narida class builder sheet, the sheet seems to believe the gun's base damage is 407... why? Is our thing wrong?

I vaguely remember the gun got a damage buff to go with the RoF nerf, so as to keep it balanced, and I have this vague recollection that's telling me the damage is closer to 400 per shot, but I can see no proof of that in the daily balance changes... It's kinda bothering me. Could you just run a quick test and say what the gun's base damage is (if we have it right) confirmed by testing?

And for verification: The Arc Pistol, when charged, does double the base damage - AND it fires 3 projectiles, like a shotgun, all of the sudden, when charged?
Is it a Boolean Charge weapon? I.E. it either is fully charged or it isn't?
Uncharged: Fires a single projectile like a normal pistol, at the stated damage stat #?
Charged: Firest three projectiles like a shotgun, at twice the stated damage stat #?
Just seems so... more complicated than it should be @_@

[peddroelm]

[quote]blaze55555 wrote...

That being said, my main qualms is with... I guess just the Falcon. Looking at the weekly updates, and Cyonan's sheet, it has a damage of 300ish, I think it's either 307ish or 370ish (something about 3 & 7) ~ nvm, just looked, our stat is 349. But if you look at the Narida class builder sheet, the sheet seems to believe the gun's base damage is 407... why? Is our thing wrong?

I vaguely remember the gun got a damage buff to go with the RoF nerf, so as to keep it balanced, and I have this vague recollection that's telling me the damage is closer to 400 per shot, but I can see no proof of that in the daily balance changes... It's kinda bothering me. Could you just run a quick test and say what the gun's base damage is (if we have it right) confirmed by testing?

And for verification: The Arc Pistol, when charged, does double the base damage - AND it fires 3 projectiles, like a shotgun, all of the sudden, when charged?
Is it a Boolean Charge weapon? I.E. it either is fully charged or it isn't?
Uncharged: Fires a single projectile like a normal pistol, at the stated damage stat #?
Charged: Firest three projectiles like a shotgun, at twice the stated damage stat #?
Just seems so... more complicated than it should be @_@

[/quote]

Fagnan's balance thread

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March 27, 2012
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Falcon Assault Rifle
- Damage increased from [215.0-268.8] to [279.2-349.0]

Corlist done some tests lately with Falcon .. Would have notice if those are wrong ..

Arc pistol has 2 states - charged/not charged - no in between ...
When charged will fire 3 shots (like a burst weapon Vindicator/Argus/Incisor/Hornet/Shuriken but pretty accurate) with *2 charge multiplier applied to base weapon damage ...

.[/quote]

Modifié par peddroelmz, 27 septembre 2012 - 07:24 .

[sareth_65536]

I have a suggestion for test, but that's not the weapon or power one, but rather a mechanics test.

Batarian with blade armor (45% DR) staying in bubble (+40% DR = 85% DR) spamming heavy melee (+75% DR = 160% DR). Will he be immune to any kind of damage? Will he regenerate his shields by the damage since DR is more than 133%?

Modifié par sareth_65536, 27 septembre 2012 - 09:56 .

[peddroelm]

sareth_65536 wrote...

I have a suggestion for test, but that's not the weapon or power one, but rather a mechanics test.

Batarian with blade armor (45% DR) staying in bubble (+40% DR = 85% DR) spamming heavy melee (+75% DR = 160% DR). Will he be immune to any kind of damage? Will he regenerate his shields by the damage since DR is more than 133%?

lots of things I'll have to test before that  - see how reliable/constant amount of damage enemies do (because without such an enemy all hope in testing player damage reduced mechanics are dashed) .. Test if// how much DR melee attacks provide, DR stacking mechanics - see if the currently circulating formulas about it holds any merit ... ... ...

lots of work that kind of puts me off  but I'll get to it eventually ...

[corlist]

Phase Disruptor tests

Phase Disruptor does not benefit from either Biotic or Tech gear.

Slayer A
PD
400 (20% rank 3, 30% evo 1)
45% power passives

Slayer B
PD
400

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Slayer A + Adaptive War Amp V (15% Biotic)

Observed damage
780

Calculation
400 * (1 + 0.2 + 0.3 + 0.45) = 780

---

Slayer B + Engineering Kit III (10% Tech)

Observed damage
400

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Slayer A + Mental Focuser V (+12% power)

Observed damage
828

Calculation
400 * (1 + 0.2 + 0.3 + 0.45 + 0.12) = 828

[sareth_65536]

peddroelmz wrote...

lots of things I'll have to test before that  - see how reliable/constant amount of damage enemies do (because without such an enemy all hope in testing player damage reduced mechanics are dashed) .. Test if// how much DR melee attacks provide, DR stacking mechanics - see if the currently circulating formulas about it holds any merit ... ... ...

When you get to this, maybe my experience will be useful...

That's all on gold.

Prime's shot deals reliably constant amount of damage for sure. This come to me because full fitness AV (no post-charge DR) after first shot always left with veery small bar of shields - they are almost gone but still shield gate is not triggered.

some not very accurate results...
full futness AJ with 30%DR bubble, 40%DR reave and stronghold package gear:
When staying in cover inside the bubble and spamming reave I receive little damage from all sources. Prime/atlas shoots takes down around 1\\4 of shields. Once a phantom flanked me and meleed by her two-hit melee, and I lost only a bit more than a half of shields.

full fitness meleeing batarian with 45%DR blade armor and stronghold package gear:
Prime's shot takes down something around 1.5 bars of health. If pyro starts to melt me at the same time I start melee, I lose around 2 bars of health.

Modifié par sareth_65536, 27 septembre 2012 - 01:41 .