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[corlist]

Recon mine and miscellaneous collector stuff

Summary
Recon mine's invasive scan is a standard debuff.
Recon mine's invasive scan debuff cannot stack with itself.
-
Scions do 1400 x 2 damage per shot on bronze (probably a bug) - in actual terms they are doing 2800 damage per shot since it cannot bypass the shield/health gate.
Silver Scions do 2128 x 2 = 4256 damage.
Gold Scions do 2800 x 2 = 5600 damage.
Platinum Scions do 3360 x 2 = 6720 damage.
It takes 15% (thanks viron) of the scion's armour worth of damage to break its sacs. Once the sacs are broken, 20% damage is inflicted to the scion's armour.
-
Collector SR uses 1 ammo for the first 4 shots (potentially subject to RoF bonuses) and 2 ammo for subsequent shots, there is no damage bonus for subsequent shots.
-
Volus's heavy melee does 150 base damage.


--------------------------------------------------

Volus Engineer
Recon mine (Radius/Damage/Invasive Scan)
No passives

CSR X
25% Barrel V
65% Piercing Mod V

vs bronze collector trooper
No invasive scan
Scoped bodyshot
Damage 106.750000
85.4 * (1 + 0.25) = 106.75

Scoped headshot
Damage 266.875000
85.4 * (1 + 0.25) * 2.5 = 266.875

Heavy melee
Damage 150.000000

---

Invasive scan
Scoped bodyshot
Damage 133.437500
85.4 * (1 + 0.25) * (1 + 0.25) = 133.4375

Scoped headshot
Damage 293.562500
85.4 * (1 + 0.25) * (2.5 + 0.25) = 293.5625

Heavy melee
Damage 187.500000
150 * (1 + 0.25) = 187.5

Recon mine
Damage 1400.000000
700 * (1 + 0.2 + 0.4) * 1.25 = 1400
- Recon mine benefits from its own invasive scan

---

2 invasive scans
scion bodyshot
Damage 128.187500
(85.4 * (1 + 0.25) * 1.25 - 15 * (1 - 0.65)) = 128.1875

---

Scion sac burst tests

Invasive scan
7 CSR shots

scion sac burst
Damage 1875.000000

-

no invasive scan
8 CSR shots
Damage 1500.000000
- Invasive scan increases sac burst damage

---

Gold scion

7 carnifex shotCTS + piercing mod5% WD
7 shots to burst sac
sac burst damageDamage 3375.000000= 16875 * 0.2

---

Collector damage (bronze)

Scion (3 shots)
Damage 1400.000000
Damage 1400.000000
Damage 1400.000000
Damage 1400.000000
Damage 1400.000000
Damage 1400.000000

Possessed abomination (explosion + 3s DoT)
Damage 875.000000
Damage 18.000000
Damage 18.000000
Damage 14.000000
Damage 14.000000
Damage 14.000000
Damage 14.000000

Platinum praetorian
840 damage (beam/missile)

Modifié par corlist, 24 octobre 2012 - 03:12 .

[BlackbirdSR-71C]

Hey Pedrom, do you know how much of Ballistic Blades' damage is applied as DoT?

[peddroelm]

BlackbirdSR-71C wrote...

Hey Pedrom, do you know how much of Ballistic Blades' damage is applied as DoT?

only have those numbers from my incendiary ammo bug tests

////////////////////////
///////////////////////
///////////////////////




Bartarian ballistic explosive blades

Damage Received: 804.214844 // bb impact
Damage Received: 12.825195 // bb dot tick
Damage Received: 12.825195
Damage Received: 12.825195
Damage Received: 12.825195
Damage Received: 12.825195
Damage Received: 12.825195


Damage Received: 850.577148
Damage Received: 12.825195
Damage Received: 12.825195
Damage Received: 12.825195
Damage Received: 12.825195
Damage Received: 12.825195
Damage Received: 12.825195



Damage Received: 947.715820
Damage Received: 12.825195
Damage Received: 12.825195
Damage Received: 12.825195
Damage Received: 12.825195
Damage Received: 12.825195
Damage Received: 12.825195

Impact damage varies with range to target .. DOT is same ...
No secondary explosion vs armored targets ? Ravager

////////////////////////////
//////////////////////////
//////////////////////////




BB + Paladin (incendiary)


Damage Received: 948.565918 // bb impact damage
Damage Received: 12.825195
Damage Received: 674.972656 // paladin impact
Damage Received: 12.825195 // bb dot (same 6 ticks over 3 seconds)
Damage Received: 23.015137
Damage Received: 12.825195
Damage Received: 23.015137
Damage Received: 12.825195
Damage Received: 23.015137
Damage Received: 12.825195
Damage Received: 23.015137
Damage Received: 12.825195
Damage Received: 23.015137
Damage Received: 23.015137 // last 6 incendiary ammo dot ticks


no interaction

I had the explosive blades evolution (blades explode after 3 seconds and stop dot ...).. Dot doesn't seem to do that much damage 12.825 * 6 = 76.95 compared to >800 at impact ...

[BlackbirdSR-71C]

Thanks!

Unfortunately that doesn't help me all that much. How do you do your tests? If possible, I would like to contribute myself by doing tests on power aspects I wonder about.

[corlist]

BlackbirdSR-71C wrote...

Hey Pedrom, do you know how much of Ballistic Blades' damage is applied as DoT?

20% in 10 seconds.
With explosive blades, the DoT is only 6% in 3 seconds.

Point-blank impact damage is 76~80%

---

All tests done point blank

BSo
ballistic blades 1
No passives

Damage 683.421204 (with minor variance)
Damage 9.000000 // (900 * 0.2) / 20 = 9
Damage 9.000000
Damage 9.000000
Damage 9.000000
Damage 9.000000
Damage 9.000000
Damage 9.000000
Damage 9.000000
Damage 9.000000
Damage 9.000000
Damage 9.000000
Damage 9.000000
Damage 9.000000
Damage 9.000000
Damage 9.000000
Damage 9.000000
Damage 9.000000
Damage 9.000000
Damage 9.000000
Damage 9.000000

BSo
ballistic blades 6 (spread/range/explosive)
2.5% PD

Damage 852.109192
Damage 11.025024 // (900 * (1 + 0.2 + 0.025) * 0.2) / 20 = 11.025
Damage 11.025024
Damage 11.025024
Damage 11.025024
Damage 11.025024
Damage 11.025024
Damage 410.000000

[BlackbirdSR-71C]

corlist wrote...

BlackbirdSR-71C wrote...

Hey Pedrom, do you know how much of Ballistic Blades' damage is applied as DoT?

20% in 10 seconds.
With explosive blades, the DoT is only 6% in 3 seconds.

Point-blank impact damage is 76~80%

---

All tests done point blank

BSo
ballistic blades 1
No passives

Damage 683.421204 (with minor variance)
Damage 9.000000 // (900 * 0.2) / 20 = 9
Damage 9.000000
Damage 9.000000
Damage 9.000000
Damage 9.000000
Damage 9.000000
Damage 9.000000
Damage 9.000000
Damage 9.000000
Damage 9.000000
Damage 9.000000
Damage 9.000000
Damage 9.000000
Damage 9.000000
Damage 9.000000
Damage 9.000000
Damage 9.000000
Damage 9.000000
Damage 9.000000
Damage 9.000000

BSo
ballistic blades 6 (spread/range/explosive)
2.5% PD

Damage 852.109192
Damage 11.025024 // (900 * (1 + 0.2 + 0.025) * 0.2) / 20 = 11.025
Damage 11.025024
Damage 11.025024
Damage 11.025024
Damage 11.025024
Damage 11.025024
Damage 410.000000

Only 20%? Weird. I suppose it's a greater percentage for the Bleed&Duration evolution as:

With the class talent specced for power damage and BB specced for Damage, Recharge, Damage and Bleed I get just over 2000 Damage for BB.

Which means, I should do at least 1520-50 = 1470 Impact damage on armor.

On Gold, a Brute has 9000 armor.  Spread over 10 bars, that's 900 armor per bar. Per calculation, I should be able to take off over 1,5 bars of armor on a Brute. In game however, all that happens is that the very first bar starts flashing due to the DoT.

Either BB has a hidden multiplier lower than 0,4 against armor, or the damage isn't displayed or applied correctly.

[jaydubs67]

Can you guys test exactly how the Warp Ammo bonuses work now? Does it apply extra damage to primed targets? Or increase damage of biotic powers? Does it last only on currently primed targets, so after a detonation targets no longer take extra damage? Or is it some other mechanism entirely?

[blaze55555]

It has a %age of damage it does. Basically, ammo damage is separate and is applied first. It's a little like:

(Base_Damage * Base_Damage_Modifier) * (AmmoDamageModifier) * (ResistanceModifier)

What this means is:
Base_Damage: All weapons have a Base Damage stat. Graal, for example, is 110 in MP @ Rank X, or the Javelin @ Rank X is ~1500+
Base_Damage_Modifier: These are rare and unique damage modifiers/multipliers that increase the damage to base damage. They aren't common. GPSMG has a 2.5x one after the 4th shot. The R6 Sniper Rifle and Assault Rifle damage bonus from TC are 2 examples as well; they improve Ammo_Damage!
AmmoDamageModifier: Each Ammo has a %age stat of this which only changes based on rank. I.E. Warp Ammo Rank III is either 35% or 40%, I can't remember. Disruptor is 15% @ Rank III, and so is Phasic.
Resistance Type Multiplier: This is kinda the interesting part. It used to be that this was only ever *1 or *0, before the recent patch, but now there are some which aren't 1 or 0. Disruptor is *4 for Barriers and Shields, Phasic is *10 for Barriers and Shields, *0.5 for Health, and both are *0 for Armor. Disruptor is *1 for Health, I think. Warp is *1 for Barriers, Health and Armor and *0 for Shields. AP Ammo is *1 for Armor and Health, and *0 for Shields and Barriers.

In the end what this means is:
Ammo Damage is a portion/percentage of the current weapon's base damage, and is applied per projectile (i.e. sure, Shotguns have lower damage per projectiles, but shoot 8 per shot, and so each of those projectiles do ammo damage for individually). Special Damage Bonuses can increase this, if you're lucky/know what you're doing/know the mechanics beforehand/plan ahead. Then we come to how much the Ammo Damage does; the AmmoDamageMultiplier is fixed for an Ammo type, but changes per Rank of that Ammo. I.E. Warp Ammo will always have the same ADM, but it'll be 15% or 25% or 35% (guesses, random filler numbers, likely incorrect) depending on if it's Rank I, II, or III Ammo. Then comes the last special part, the ResistanceTypeModifier. This basically is what determines if the Ammo Does damage; if it's *0 for the type of defense you're hitting (Armor, Shields, Barriers, Health) the Ammo does no damage and adds no damage to your regular shot damage. That being said, if you're using Disruptor Ammo, it's set to add 15% damage to certain defenses @RIII, but now it does *4 that if you're hitting Shields/Barriers. Same for Phasic Ammo; it adds *10 of 15%, or 150% Base_Damage! Warp Ammo adds 35%/40% @RIII, and it either adds the damage, *1, for Barriers, Armor, and Health, or it doesn't add the damage if shooting Shields, b/c it's *0. Phasic Ammo adds damage against Health, but very little because it's *0.5 (7.5% @RIII)

So in the end: Ammo added damage is %age based and fairly constant across the board.

Now as to wonderings whether it's related to Biotic Combos: It is reported (from what I know) to be glitched; intended mini-BC's that are supposed to be Detonated aren't Detonating. If they were working correctly, the damage would follow Corlist's Combo Damage formula, where the Ammo Power (no matter what Rank) would be worth a Rank I Power, no matter what. (Incendiary Ammo Sourcing a Fire Explosion is worth any Rank I Fire Power, no matter what, for setting up Fire Explosions, and Warp Ammo would be only worth a Rank I Biotic Power, no matter what, for detonating BC's). Better Info on Combo's is linked in the OP of this thread.

Last: There's a reported feature "+75% damage versus lifted targets." I don't know if this does work, but based on the fact that I haven't seen confirmation of it working or even existing, I'm going to guess it isn't working and is broken. And if it were working, I don't know how it would be applied or would work.

Basically: Warp Ammo follows the same basic Ammo Mechanics as all other Ammo Types.

[jaydubs67]

blaze55555 wrote...

Last: There's a reported feature "+75% damage versus lifted targets." I don't know if this does work, but based on the fact that I haven't seen confirmation of it working or even existing, I'm going to guess it isn't working and is broken. And if it were working, I don't know how it would be applied or would work.

Actually, this is what I'm asking about.  I know that there used to be a + damage vs lifted targets thing, but in the new current description you get from your equipment selection screen, that bonus is gone.  Instead, there's something that (I believe) says Biotic Effect +X%.  It's +100% at rank IV.  

Now, I get the impression that actually means that anything that's been biotically primed takes a large amount of bonus damage.  And I say that because, while using biotics and equipping warp ammo, my Tempest is doing Harrier level damage, and my Wraith is doing Claymore level damage.  

The problem is, the description is rather vague.  What exactly qualifies as a "Biotic Effect?"  I'm getting good results while enemies are hit with Singularity, Warp, or Reave, so I assume this means "biotically primed."  But then does detonating a target take away your damage bonus?  And while I notice a large damage increase, is the +100% damage +100% of the base weapon damage?  Or does it double the ammo damage?  That is, does the target take +160% damage (60% + 100%) or 120% (60% * 2) extra base damage?  

Or am I completely wrong, and it means the target takes extra damage from biotic powers (though this seems unlikely)?  

[Shampoohorn]

Havoc Strike Question.

It appears that we're able to simultaneously perform a Strike and Heavy Melee. The animation looks like a mix of the two, but it's really not clear what kind of damage is actually being done. Sometime the kill feed say one source, sometimes the other. Would you guys be up for trying the various combinations and seeing what your memory software tells you?

[Arctican]

Thanks corlist.

So we know Snap Freeze rank 6 Tech Combo now works with the latest patch. Did this patch also fix Shadow's Electric Slash's Detonate evolution?

If Electric Slash's Detonate evolution does indeed work, does combining Snap Freeze's rank 6 Tech Combo and Shadow's Electric Slash's Detonate evolution give a 200% increase in damage for Cryo Explosion?

[Arctican]

Just thought of another question that's been on my mind. Does the level of ammo-primers like Incendiary, Cryo, Disruptor affect the tech-combo damage like how the ranks of powers affect the tech-combo damage?

For example, are fire-explosions from a level-4 incendiary better than that from a level-1 incendiary? I apologize if this was answered before, but I have not seen it myself.

[corlist]

Arctican wrote...

Just thought of another question that's been on my mind. Does the level of ammo-primers like Incendiary, Cryo, Disruptor affect the tech-combo damage like how the ranks of powers affect the tech-combo damage?

For example, are fire-explosions from a level-4 incendiary better than that from a level-1 incendiary? I apologize if this was answered before, but I have not seen it myself.

This was answered before in my combo damage thread. All ammo consumables count as level 1 powers.

[Eckswhyzed]

Was it confirmed the armour DR ignoring properties of the high-velocity barrels and AP mods stack? I know the penetration distance does. Also, if I use an AP mod on a weapon with innate cover penetration (say the Javelin with 1m), do I get the reduced damage after shooting through the first 1 meter of cover (from the AP mod), or do I deal full damage?

Also, I was under the impression ALL non-hitscan weapons ignore armour DR and shield gate, with the sole exception of the Krysae, which does not ignore shield gate. The only weapons I'm not sure about this for are the Falcon and the Krysae - I'm clear on the Kishok, Scorpion and Acolyte.

@jaydubs

See here:

http://social.biowar...3421/3#14693528

[corlist]

Shampoohorn wrote...


Havoc Strike Question.

It appears that we're able to simultaneously perform a Strike and Heavy Melee. The animation looks like a mix of the two, but it's really not clear what kind of damage is actually being done. Sometime the kill feed say one source, sometimes the other. Would you guys be up for trying the various combinations and seeing what your memory software tells you?

Havoc strike (HS) + heavy melee (HM)

No obstacles + within heavy melee range: Both attacks almost guaranteed to hit.

Obstacle (even low cover) + within heavy melee range + target near obstacle: HM very likely to miss. In rare circumstances HS misses and HM hits.

Obstacle + within heavy melee range + target far away from obstacle: Both attacks will miss.

Beyond heavy melee range: Both attacks will miss.

I'm sure you know this already but, sometimes when doing this it will glitch and not trigger a cooldown on Havoc Strike.

-----

Useless but fun stuff.

Jetpacks can do 100 damage to enemies (Neither tactical cloak nor stimpacks increase damage/ credited as melee kills). There's 2 ways this can happen. In either case, the target will be visibly staggered.

At extremely close range (touching) to an enemy. Jetpack backwards.

While facing an enemy and approximately within reegar range, jetpack straight towards it.

Modifié par corlist, 19 novembre 2012 - 07:23 .

[corlist]

Eckswhyzed wrote...

Was it confirmed the armour DR ignoring properties of the high-velocity barrels and AP mods stack? I know the penetration distance does. Also, if I use an AP mod on a weapon with innate cover penetration (say the Javelin with 1m), do I get the reduced damage after shooting through the first 1 meter of cover (from the AP mod), or do I deal full damage?

HVB and AP mods stack and can ignore armour completely.
No damage loss on the javelin when shooting through cover while using such mods.

AA
5% WD
Javelin X - 1545.8
HVB IV (22.5% WD, 55% AP)
Piercing Mod V (65% AP, 30% penetration damage loss)

vs bronze brute

Bodyshot
Damage 1970.895020
1545.8 * (1 + 0.05 + 0.225) - (15 * 0) = 1970.895
- Armour DR completely negated

Through-wall bodyshot
Damage 1970.895020
- No penetration damage loss

Armour plate shot
Damage 1478.170898
1478.170898 / 1970.895020 = ~0.74999
- 25% damage loss

Headshot
Damage 2759.252686
(1545.8 * (1 + 0.05 + 0.225) - (15 * 0)) * 1.4 = 2759.253

Through-wall headshot
Damage 2759.252686
- No penetration damage loss

Claw shot
Damage 2.167969
- It's not possible to shoot through the claw to hit the head even with this setup.

[Eckswhyzed]

Thanks for the info, especially on the Brute claw mechanics.

[ISHYGDDT]

Question:
Do proxy mine and other debuffs remain in effect after Banshees put their power blocking abilities up? I know DOT effects cease but I'm not sure if it applies to all status effects or not.

Also, will a new proxy mine still give a debuff (just without the power's damage) on a power-blocking Banshee?

[peddroelm]

ISHYGDDT wrote...

Question:
Do proxy mine and other debuffs remain in effect after Banshees put their power blocking abilities up? I know DOT effects cease but I'm not sure if it applies to all status effects or not.

Also, will a new proxy mine still give a debuff (just without the power's damage) on a power-blocking Banshee?

 

hard to test vs banshees (insta kill) - but I'll hazard an educated guess - if Tactical Scan debuff graphic remains on the banshee after she does her non-magic-sphere all debuffs should still work properly for the duration ...

[corlist]

Arctican wrote...

Thanks corlist.

So we know Snap Freeze rank 6 Tech Combo now works with the latest patch. Did this patch also fix Shadow's Electric Slash's Detonate evolution?

If Electric Slash's Detonate evolution does indeed work, does combining Snap Freeze's rank 6 Tech Combo and Shadow's Electric Slash's Detonate evolution give a 200% increase in damage for Cryo Explosion?

Retested yesterday and doesn't work.
*edit* btw snap freeze tech combo never worked and instead there's a 2x damage cryo explosion bug with snap freeze.

Modifié par corlist, 29 octobre 2012 - 04:13 .

[corlist]

ISHYGDDT wrote...

Question:
Do proxy mine and other debuffs remain in effect after Banshees put their power blocking abilities up? I know DOT effects cease but I'm not sure if it applies to all status effects or not.

Also, will a new proxy mine still give a debuff (just without the power's damage) on a power-blocking Banshee?

Not 100% sure about the first question. Testing has been difficult.

A new proxy mine will give a debuff without damage on a power blocking banshee. The banshee was not already blocking, but the proxy mine did not do damage.

TSo
CSR X
85.4
Barrel V (25% WD)
Piercing Mod V (65% AP, 70% penetration damage)
37.5% WD passives
30% headshot passives
75% hipfire damage

vs platinum banshee barriers

Damage 231.000000
//scoped headshot
85.4 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.375 + 0.3) * 1.4 = 230.153
Damage 231.000000
Damage 139.000000
//scoped bodyshot
85.4 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.375) = 138.775
Damage 139.000000
Damage 139.000000
Damage 231.000000
//proxy was launched at banshee here, which was blocked and did 0 damage.
Damage 264.000000
//scoped headshot + proxy
85.4 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.375 + 0.3) * (1.4 + 0.2) = 263.032
Damage 264.000000
Damage 264.000000
Damage 117.000000
//scoped bodyshot on unknown banshee strong point?
Damage 167.000000
//scoped bodyshot + proxy
85.4 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.375) * 1.2 = 166.53
Damage 167.000000
Damage 167.000000
Damage 167.000000
Damage 167.000000
Damage 167.000000
Damage 167.000000

[Flambrose]

I'm curious about Cluster Grenade's rank 5 evolution that does 100% extra damage to lifted targets. Now that it's been confirmed that "lifted" meant affected by biotics in the case of warp ammo, it seems possible that Cluster Grenade might get bonus damage against targets affected by Reave. Has this actually been tested before?

[Tybo]

Warp ammo actually states "biotic damage bonus" not damage to lifted targets, so it is not the same variable. It is possible that what you are saying is correct, but my guess is no. Sorry, I currently am not interested in using 2 respec cards to test this. Maybe someone else will.

[Shampoohorn]

@corlist: Thanks for testing the Havoc. Best case combo hit could do >5000 damage (HS1300+HM3700). That's pretty cool. Of course, the ghost can do 4500 with just HM alone...

Cool find about the jet pack damage. Challenge: All jet pack game: no weapons, no powers.

[Shampoohorn]

Next request: Dragoons. They seem to get DR during their Smash animation. Is that actually the case? Maybe I'm just annoyed by their high armor value (>6000 4811 on Gold).

Modifié par Shampoohorn, 30 octobre 2012 - 11:23 .